colin Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 Kennyd - 2020-02-25 9:36 PM Ultimately it’s Money that runs the world not Governments , Europe can’t afford to loose our cash , Spain would go into recession , until it happens it hasn’t happened, at the moment all the politicians are playing hard ball , it will eventually all settle down , then & then only will I worry about how I am going to tour Europe & beyond, IMO this is just 5 pages of , IF, MAYBE , COULD MEAN , SHOULD MEAN , WOULD MEAN !!!! This seems to have escaped your notice, the 90 day rule applies to the entire world outside of EU, UK is just a small country and those wanting to travel more than 90 days are just a miniscule part of EU economy. Spain will no doubt come up with a scheme to allow longer term stays for UK citizens if they think it worth it, for the wider Schengen area there will be no appetite for loosening of rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 colin - 2020-02-25 10:16 PM Kennyd - 2020-02-25 9:36 PM Ultimately it’s Money that runs the world not Governments , Europe can’t afford to loose our cash , Spain would go into recession , until it happens it hasn’t happened, at the moment all the politicians are playing hard ball , it will eventually all settle down , then & then only will I worry about how I am going to tour Europe & beyond, IMO this is just 5 pages of , IF, MAYBE , COULD MEAN , SHOULD MEAN , WOULD MEAN !!!! This seems to have escaped your notice, the 90 day rule applies to the entire world outside of EU, UK is just a small country and those wanting to travel more than 90 days are just a miniscule part of EU economy. Spain will no doubt come up with a scheme to allow longer term stays for UK citizens if they think it worth it, for the wider Schengen area there will be no appetite for loosening of rules. Spain for sure will want to hang on to tourist money but thats made from the thousands of holiday makers who come for two weeks and spend lots of cash not from motorhomers wild camping for months on end on some scruffy car park bringing their own food and booze and spending next to nothing where they are not always welcome anyway. Nothing will change for 99% of the tourists who visit there from the UK. I doubt a few motorhomers from the UK will be on anyones radar in the negotiations. They could be on the Spanish Plods radar though as overstayers. Nice little earner, couple of thousand Euro fine and kick them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Barryd999 - 2020-02-26 11:07 AM I doubt a few motorhomers from the UK will be on anyones radar in the negotiations. They could be on the Spanish Plods radar though as overstayers. Nice little earner, couple of thousand Euro fine and kick them out. Yep, put them on the next plane home and leave them to sort out getting their MH later! Plod will not be worried what personal belongings, ie MH or Toad, etc. you have in Spain. You will be an overstayer and they will put you on the quickest route out! Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowdriver Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Barryd999 - 2020-02-26 11:07 AM I doubt a few motorhomers from the UK will be on anyones radar in the negotiations. They could be on the Spanish Plods radar though as overstayers. Nice little earner, couple of thousand Euro fine and kick them out. The first sentence is certainly correct. The second and third just conjecture to no clear point other than to either crank up Brexiteers who don't believe it's going to happen, or believe it will be unjust if it does, and/or imply the Spanish police are corrupt, and incapable of following any due process. This is just conjecture, given the absence of any data to support the assertions. Keithl - 2020-02-26 11:22 AM Yep, put them on the next plane home and leave them to sort out getting their MH later! Plod will not be worried what personal belongings, ie MH or Toad, etc. you have in Spain. You will be an overstayer and they will put you on the quickest route out! Keith. And again - any evidence to support these assertions as to what the Spanish police will do? I think it would help if we tried to stick to the point, which is; What are the practical implications of traveling in Europe from now onwards? And rely on the facts as far as people can discover them. In this respect I am very grateful for the expertise and research that appears so regularly on this list, especially when compared to some other forums and lists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 slowdriver - 2020-02-26 12:06 PM Keithl - 2020-02-26 11:22 AM Yep, put them on the next plane home and leave them to sort out getting their MH later! Plod will not be worried what personal belongings, ie MH or Toad, etc. you have in Spain. You will be an overstayer and they will put you on the quickest route out! Keith. And again - any evidence to support these assertions as to what the Spanish police will do? Sorry! I've been watching too many episodes of 'Border Control' and the like. Seems like any overstay and it's first flight home, but only time will tell as regards Spain, etc when we have finally left. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Keith, we have actually left, as of 1/1/20. While in transition we are already out, merely having some reserved rights under the withdrawal agreement, among which are the freedom of movement rights we had as members, which we retain only for so long as we observe reciprocal rights for EU citizens visiting the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Keithl - 2020-02-26 12:33 PM slowdriver - 2020-02-26 12:06 PM Keithl - 2020-02-26 11:22 AM Yep, put them on the next plane home and leave them to sort out getting their MH later! Plod will not be worried what personal belongings, ie MH or Toad, etc. you have in Spain. You will be an overstayer and they will put you on the quickest route out! Keith. And again - any evidence to support these assertions as to what the Spanish police will do? Sorry! I've been watching too many episodes of 'Border Control' and the like. Seems like any overstay and it's first flight home, but only time will tell as regards Spain, etc when we have finally left. Keith. I don't think your 'assertions' as slowdriver put it, are that far out actually Keith apart from sticking folk on the 'first flight out'.....UK does that with folk it doesn't want any longer but that's another issue. Third country Brit overstayers will be hit with a hefty fine but more importantly, their passport will get a marker which for any future travel is going to prove 'uncomfortable' as that tells any border control (including ours) you've previously run foul of a countries authorities. Immediate deportation is dependent on an individuals case and the country they were caught but intentional or not, there are no exceptions. The rule is now set and anyone tempted to flout it does so at their own risk. Even if lucky to escape without a fine or ban there will be consequences if attempting to re-enter a Schengen country, say the following year or whatever, so any culprits shouldn't be surprised if they get no further than French border control the next time they fancy fun in the sun and get turned back to spend their time sitting on Skegness beach with the donkeys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 slowdriver - 2020-02-26 12:06 PM Barryd999 - 2020-02-26 11:07 AM I doubt a few motorhomers from the UK will be on anyones radar in the negotiations. They could be on the Spanish Plods radar though as overstayers. Nice little earner, couple of thousand Euro fine and kick them out. The first sentence is certainly correct. The second and third just conjecture to no clear point other than to either crank up Brexiteers who don't believe it's going to happen, or believe it will be unjust if it does, and/or imply the Spanish police are corrupt, and incapable of following any due process. This is just conjecture, given the absence of any data to support the assertions. Keithl - 2020-02-26 11:22 AM Yep, put them on the next plane home and leave them to sort out getting their MH later! Plod will not be worried what personal belongings, ie MH or Toad, etc. you have in Spain. You will be an overstayer and they will put you on the quickest route out! Keith. And again - any evidence to support these assertions as to what the Spanish police will do? I think it would help if we tried to stick to the point, which is; What are the practical implications of traveling in Europe from now onwards? And rely on the facts as far as people can discover them. In this respect I am very grateful for the expertise and research that appears so regularly on this list, especially when compared to some other forums and lists. Have a look at the Schengen visa site here: https://tinyurl.com/rwmdk2q It spell out with reasonable clarity why the advice to take the 90 days in 180 days rule seriously is sound. It acknowledges that the actual penalty will depend on they state in which the overstay is detected, but gives reasonable clarity on the possible penalties that may be applied. Some countries (not sure about Spain) require registration at hotels and campsites even for EU members, and will definitely require this for third country visitors (albeit they may only photocopy documents). It is usual for the police to check who is where, and for how long, in these countries, so overstaying is readily identifiable. Remember that not all EU states are unified and some have federal structures under which the local regional legislatures can set their own rules - so it is not guaranteed that the same penalties will be applied from place to place if identified as overstaying while "in country". However, since the Schengen area rules apply to the majority of EU states (of which Spain is one), and in any case motorhomers will have to enter the EU/EEA states through either the tunnel or by ferry, at which points, once out of transition, their passports will be date stamped (or recorded on ETIAS when up and running), the duration of their stays will be apparent to the border police when they present their passports on leaving - which is when, and where, the fun will start for the naughty ones! On or two of the above posts may appear a little dramatized, but I think in the interest of attention grabbing, rather than to promote a "Brexit tiff". Folk will do as they please, and some will land on their derrieres with a very hard bump indeed if they fail to take note. After all, a UK numberplate and GB sticker will hardly fail to be noticed, so it won't be difficult to work out who is likely to be the sinner! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboyprowler Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 In Spain, registration is required at legitimate sites. That is not to say that some sites will not ask for passport details, and that, maybe money in the back pocket is the reason for that. B-) Today, according to the Spanish news, it is very likely that a "permit to stay" will be available to people with a valid reason to want longer in Spain than the 90 days, but not become resident. Apparently details will be released in the not too distant future, and may well apply to holiday home owners. Nothing in writing however, as yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeco Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 Then there is the ace card in the pack - coronavirus. If the Italians get there way with a suspension of the Schengen Agreement there may be iñ the foreseeable future no movement at all. So where would you rather be Spain or Uk because potentially that will be the option? In our case our usual June/July in Europe will be spent on the warm North Queensland coast until this nasty virus in under control. Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-02-27 4:57 PM slowdriver - 2020-02-26 12:06 PM Barryd999 - 2020-02-26 11:07 AM I doubt a few motorhomers from the UK will be on anyones radar in the negotiations. They could be on the Spanish Plods radar though as overstayers. Nice little earner, couple of thousand Euro fine and kick them out. The first sentence is certainly correct. The second and third just conjecture to no clear point other than to either crank up Brexiteers who don't believe it's going to happen, or believe it will be unjust if it does, and/or imply the Spanish police are corrupt, and incapable of following any due process. This is just conjecture, given the absence of any data to support the assertions. Keithl - 2020-02-26 11:22 AM Yep, put them on the next plane home and leave them to sort out getting their MH later! Plod will not be worried what personal belongings, ie MH or Toad, etc. you have in Spain. You will be an overstayer and they will put you on the quickest route out! Keith. And again - any evidence to support these assertions as to what the Spanish police will do? I think it would help if we tried to stick to the point, which is; What are the practical implications of traveling in Europe from now onwards? And rely on the facts as far as people can discover them. In this respect I am very grateful for the expertise and research that appears so regularly on this list, especially when compared to some other forums and lists. Some countries (not sure about Spain) require registration at hotels and campsites even for EU members, and will definitely require this for third country visitors (albeit they may only photocopy documents). It is usual for the police to check who is where, and for how long, in these countries, so overstaying is readily identifiable. Remember that not all EU states are unified and some have federal structures under which the local regional legislatures can set their own rules - so it is not guaranteed that the same penalties will be applied from place to place if identified as overstaying while "in country". However, since the Schengen area rules apply to the majority of EU states (of which Spain is one), and in any case motorhomers will have to enter the EU/EEA states through either the tunnel or by ferry, at which points, once out of transition, their passports will be date stamped (or recorded on ETIAS when up and running), the duration of their stays will be apparent to the border police when they present their passports on leaving - which is when, and where, the fun will start for the naughty ones! Established campsites in Poland and Germany require registration. Some Polish sites will also ask to hold your passport though i always refused explaining i am personally responsible for it so they could either take photocopy or hold my Camping Carnet. Smaller sites never bothered and were quite relaxed. The police were also very easy to deal with....courteous, polite and professional. Ironically the most draconian was Hungary where you're expected to fill in a form detailing date and time of entry and purpose of visit....quite odd given they were the first country to open the border to east Germans. Their police and border control are not exactly pleasant to deal with either and i began avoiding Hungary other than transiting through from Romania to Poland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 Geeco - 2020-02-28 3:31 AM Then there is the ace card in the pack - coronavirus. If the Italians get there way with a suspension of the Schengen Agreement there may be iñ the foreseeable future no movement at all. So where would you rather be Spain or Uk because potentially that will be the option? In our case our usual June/July in Europe will be spent on the warm North Queensland coast until this nasty virus in under control. Cheers, There's no escape though Gary. People travel not just for tourism but business. One of my nephews who as you know lives in Oz regularly travels as part of his job to Singapore and South Africa. Not sure if the company he's with has made alternate plans since this virus outbreak but i see Australia has had 15 confirmed cases though eight have since recovered. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_outbreak_in_Australia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wortho Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 We have recently returned to Oz from Denmark via Qatar. My Wife picked up a nasty flu and I was worried about Corona so rang the healthline. They asked her a bunch of questions and said if she developed breathing difficulties to go to Emergency. She recovered but it took 2 weeks and the worse flu she has ever had, I got some of the symtoms but was discounted by my Wife as man flu :-D When departing Qatar they make everyone put 3 fingers on a fingerprint scanner so you can imagine the nasties picked up there :$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifo Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 flyboyprowler - 2020-02-27 5:23 PM Today, according to the Spanish news, it is very likely that a "permit to stay" will be available to people with a valid reason to want longer in Spain than the 90 days, but not become resident. Apparently details will be released in the not too distant future, and may well apply to holiday home owners. Nothing in writing however, as yet. A tiny glimmer of hope. I’ve not seen anything about this. Is there any movement yet ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboyprowler Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 Fifo - 2020-03-02 8:28 PM flyboyprowler - 2020-02-27 5:23 PM Today, according to the Spanish news, it is very likely that a "permit to stay" will be available to people with a valid reason to want longer in Spain than the 90 days, but not become resident. Apparently details will be released in the not too distant future, and may well apply to holiday home owners. Nothing in writing however, as yet. A tiny glimmer of hope. I’ve not seen anything about this. Is there any movement yet ? Well,I am on the spot, so will let you all know if there is anything positive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Jones Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 This will cheer a lot of people up, if it can be done. Is it a reliable news source? At the moment, the Schengen rules only allow an exemption for people with a valid "permit to reside" in one of the signatory countries. I'm not sure how Spain would convince its partners that this complied with the treaty (which it would need to, since borders between them are open). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 It might work if it were issued in the form of a long stay visa (i.e. over 90 days), for which the right to issue I believe still lies with the individual states, so not governed by Schengen. Visas are issued to individuals on conditions set by the issuing state, whereas Schengen is a blanket provision that covers all third country travellers (albeit with a few exceptions) in possession of a valid passport plus either a "90 day Schengen visa" or the 7€ Schengen visa waiver. But, if accessing Spain via France, and if the French didn't agreed to acknowledge the Spanish visa, leaving France for UK after more than 90 days might get interesting! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifo Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-03-03 12:41 PM But, if accessing Spain via France, and if the French didn't agreed to acknowledge the Spanish visa, leaving France for UK after more than 90 days might get interesting! :-) Good news for Brittany Ferries Bilbao and Santander services though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboyprowler Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 Fifo - 2020-03-03 12:59 PM Brian Kirby - 2020-03-03 12:41 PM But, if accessing Spain via France, and if the French didn't agreed to acknowledge the Spanish visa, leaving France for UK after more than 90 days might get interesting! :-) Good news for Brittany Ferries Bilbao and Santander services though. I can never get a crossing with a dog friendly cabin any time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigelPeloquin Posted April 12, 2023 Share Posted April 12, 2023 That's a fair point. It's true that motorhomers from the UK may not be a priority in the negotiations, but it's also true that it is important for them to be aware of the laws and regulations in place in Spain. Even if they are not officially considered a priority, they should still be mindful of the rules and regulations in place in order to avoid getting into any trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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