m0J0 Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 Hi. I am planing to install 2 batteries under the drivers seat of my 2017 Peugeot Boxer (expect Ducato & Relay is same). Does anyone have a record of the maximum dimensions within which the two batteries can sit? What is your experience and what batteries used (make, model, dims & power) . I guess minimal maintenance type would be best. Would you fit a rust resistant tray under the batteries, if so do you have a source. I guess Lion batteries would be a cinch to get up to a total of 200Ah plus, but they are so expensive. Any other advice? Thanks Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 This thread will be worth a read. https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Varta-LFD90-Batteries/48787/ As it happens I've just reworked my underseat battery storage. You can see the original layout in an image in the above thread, and the new layout with two Varta LFD90 batteries below. I fitted two battery trays under the seat, secured to the van floor using bolts and rivnuts. One tray was fitted slightly higher than the other onto 25mm battens to allow the widest parts of the battery casings to overlap and minimise the combined width. It would have been a very tight fit if not impossible to get both in without doing that. I also had to cut a seciton out of the higher of the two battery trays to allow access to fit and remove the hold down clamp on the other.These are the battery trays I used: http://tiny.cc/phbtkz And this is the result: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 Have fitted two LFD's to our Globecar, the battery tray was the one supplied by Globecar it is stepped but both fitted with no problems or mods. p.s. fitted the LFD75's, just not quite as long as the 90's and could fit a invertor in with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry38 Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 Looks a tidy setup. Doesn't show a seat swivel unit but I guess this would clear ok? I fitted an identical second AGM battery to the original fit, mounted on its side under the passenger seat on my Peugeot Boxer. Personally I have a preference for AGM because they are totally maintenance free, leak proof and give good service life notwithstanding the fact that I have had the same pair of batteries in constant use on the vehicle since new in 2009. For easy maintenance or fault finding to the vehicle electrics each battery is connected via a male and female battery connection plug which also provides a readily available connection point to supplement the starter battery in an emergency. A fitted battery use changeover switch allows seperate charging of each battery or both if required AND it does not become necessary to renew both batteries at the same time or match them up. This is a personal preference of course but in my professional life I have experience of two batteries wired in parallel and one was "robbing" the other of power when a cell failed. An untimely demise came about for both of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 Here's my setup, as I mentioned in another thread, the LFD's are self discharging more than the previous Banner AGM. https://i.imgur.com/Q5F7DCu.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 Barry38 - 2020-03-16 10:07 PM Looks a tidy setup. Doesn't show a seat swivel unit but I guess this would clear ok? Yes, the swivel plate is actually visible in the photo just to the right of the seat box. I find it easiest to unbolt the swivel plate from the lower seat frame and lift the seat and swivel assembly off as a complete assembly. Due to having to raise the front battery to clear the wiring loom that runs beneath it, there is about 5mm clearance between the top of the battery casing and the swivel plate bolts, but the battery tray clamps mean that the batteries are secure, so a miss is as good as a mile. I had the option to invert the swivel plate bolts if necessary, which would have given another 10mm or so clearance. The converter of my van (Vantage) cut away the cab flooring under the seat before fitting their original batteries, to increase clearance. Had the floor (which is a plastic type mat with a thick foam backing) still been in place, it would not have been necessary to raise the front battery tray to clear the wiring loom, although the overall clearance between the new batteries and the seat swivel would have been much the same. Of course I did all this in preparation for a 3 month tour of Scotland, which is now on hold for however long the current situation dictates. But it was always my intention to make the modification at some stage. Interesting observation from Colin about the LFD's self-discharge. I haven't noticed that, although they are connected to a solar charger. But despite Allan's comments in the thread I linked to in my original post, they have a noticeably lower resting voltage than the Hankook (AtlasBX) batteries that I've replaced. There was nothing wrong with the Hankooks either. Just that as they were getting on for 4 years old and intending as I said to be off-grid as much as possible for several months, I thought it wise insurance to replace them before we set off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 Deneb - 2020-03-17 12:12 PM Interesting observation from Colin about the LFD's self-discharge. I haven't noticed that, although they are connected to a solar charger. But despite Allan's comments in the thread I linked to in my original post, they have a noticeably lower resting voltage than the Hankook (AtlasBX) batteries that I've replaced. Our van is stored under cover, the solar produces little if any power, with the previous Banner AGM self discharge of the leisure battery was never a issue, with these LFD's there is an element of self discharge, not a huge amount but something which requires monitoring and occasional charging, something I've never had to do before. If the van had been outside, even in depth of winter I would guess the solar would top them up during the day, this is why you won't see any self discharge, the solar (another Allan dislike) takes care of things. I also replaced the cab battery with a 90Ah LFD, this also doesn't appear to hold charge as well as the previous Fiat original, but this is harder to tell as we now have a different charging routine (to take care of leisure batteries), and have not been away with no EHU since fitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 m0J0 - 2020-03-03 1:55 PM I guess Lion batteries would be a cinch to get up to a total of 200Ah plus, but they are so expensive. Only if you are innocent enough to buy them over the counter without ordering them online first to get the discount from Euro Car Parts who own the brand in one of their never ending sales. I have found Lion batteries ok, but AAcaravan on this forum prefers Varta or Bosch (same firm) and he knows more about batteries than me A pair of 019 batteries will fit, but as they are wired in parallel they don't need to be the same capacity, just preferably the same age. I didn't use clamps - just packed plywood around them to stop them chafing on the metal of the seat frame box, and put a fibre strap over the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 This USA webpage discusses ‘deep cycle batteries’ https://www.solar-electric.com/learning-center/deep-cycle-battery-faq.html/ and comments "AGM's have a very low self-discharge - from 1% to 3% per month is usual. This means that they can sit in storage for much longer periods without charging than standard batteries.” I fitted a Banner AGM battery to my 2005 Hobby motorhome when, in 2012, its original Exide G80 gel leisure-battery failed. I would have preferred to fit another gel battery, but the Exide battery died suddenly on Day 2 of a French trip and I couldn’t source a gel equivalent. The Hobby’s CBE battery-charger had no specific AGM setting, so I was never sure whether it would be best to use the charger’s gel or wet-acid charging regimen and, when I discussed this with a Banner rep at an NEC show, I got mixed messages. I think I eventually chose to use the charger’s wet-acid setting but, as I sold the Hobby in 2014, I’ve no idea how long the Banner battery would have lasted. I do know that, after my neighbours had jet-setted off for several months leaving me ‘in charge’ of their small Hyundai i20 car, I noticed that this had a surprisingly large AGM starter-battery. I checked the battery’s voltage level every now and again but, despite it maintaining the car’s central-locking, etc. the discharge rate was very low. I charged the battery just before my neighbours arrived home, but it didn’t really need it and starting the car beforehand was no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 John52 - 2020-03-18 8:12 AM m0J0 - 2020-03-03 1:55 PM I guess Lion batteries would be a cinch to get up to a total of 200Ah plus, but they are so expensive. Only if you are innocent enough to buy them over the counter without ordering them online first to get the discount from Euro Car Parts who own the brand in one of their never ending sales. I have found Lion batteries ok, M0J0, Are you talking about Lion branded batteries sold by Euro Car Parts or Li-Ion (Lithium Ion) chemistry batteries? Or possibly even Lithium Iron? Big difference between the two! Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 John52 - 2020-03-18 8:12 AM m0J0 - 2020-03-03 1:55 PM I guess Lion batteries would be a cinch to get up to a total of 200Ah plus, but they are so expensive. Only if you are innocent enough to buy them over the counter without ordering them online first to get the discount from Euro Car Parts who own the brand in one of their never ending sales. I have found Lion batteries ok, but AAcaravan on this forum prefers Varta or Bosch (same firm) and he knows more about batteries than me... I think m0j0 was referring to lithium-ion (Li-ion) batteries, not the “Lion" branded products advertised by Euro Car Parts. The latter batteries (example here) https://www.eurocarparts.com/p/lion-019-car-battery-3-year-guarantee-444770191?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI_tLI-M-j6AIVy7HtCh0DtgHfEAQYBCABEgKpifD_BwE appear to be ‘ordinary’ calcium technology starter-batteries. (I think you may be unaware that Allan Evans (forum member ‘aandncaravan’) sadly died in August 2019.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 Derek Uzzell - 2020-03-18 8:57 AM (I think you may be unaware that Allan Evans (forum member ‘aandncaravan’) sadly died in August 2019.) Yes, Sorry to hear that but thanks for letting me know. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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