Still Eu citizens?

[747]

I think Max has brought a refreshing international flavour to this debate. It is good to see someone from the European mainland who still has faith in the EU at a time when many Europeans regard the EU in the same way as the British.

[Guest pelmetman]

747 - 2020-05-02 8:49 AM

 

I think Max has brought a refreshing international flavour to this debate. It is good to see someone from the European mainland who still has faith in the EU at a time when many Europeans regard the EU in the same way as the British.

 

I recall there was a lot of folk in the UK who thought the majority of the country had faith in the EU :D ........

 

I cant see the EU "allowing" any other country to ask their citizens if they still have faith >:-) .........

 

 

[Tracker]

mtravel - 2020-05-01 4:27 PM

 

Long live our friendship and common culture as Europeans.

 

 

Absolutely the way that many of us see it, but there ought to be a better way to build on this for the common good of all European nations than a politically motivated and very expensive beaureaucratic 'one size fits all' policy from Brussells, whose aim is a their version of equality where everyone is the same and those who have worked hard subsidise the lazy and inept?

[John52]

Tracker - 2020-05-02 10:32 AM

 

beaureaucratic

Bit rich to call them bureaucratic when the House of Lords alone is bigger than the whole of the EU Parliament for 27 countries.

 

And Britain is having to employ even more bureaucrats, not only to deal with Brexit, but just to try and find out second hand whats being decided for us in the meetings we are no longer allowed in to.

[Tracker]

My measure of beaurocracy is not tainted by political favouritism, judge them on what they do and what their system costs us all regardless of numbers.

[John52]

Tracker - 2020-05-02 11:34 AM

 

My measure of beaurocracy is not tainted by political favouritism, judge them on what they do and what their system costs us all regardless of numbers.

In that case England is far worse than the EU :-(

[Tracker]

On what do you base that claim?

[Birdbrain]

Hatred

[mtravel]

Tracker - 2020-05-02 10:32 AM

 

mtravel - 2020-05-01 4:27 PM

 

Long live our friendship and common culture as Europeans.

 

 

Absolutely the way that many of us see it, but there ought to be a better way to build on this for the common good of all European nations than a politically motivated and very expensive beaureaucratic 'one size fits all' policy from Brussells, whose aim is a their version of equality where everyone is the same and those who have worked hard subsidise the lazy and inept?

 

It is easy to talk about lazy and inept people without evaluating all aspects.

Especially after the crisis of 2008 (someone may also glorify Trump&Co and its ignorant voters but don't forget that the crisis came from the States ... ).

 

Today we all know what the economic and political importance of Germany is.

A nation that I respect for how it has been able to incorporate another one with some frictions but also with great success.

Often they scream of budgets and debts but often it is enough to remember what the Community has done for them at that time and subsequently for their banks to make them think.

Even recently in the case of the Covid crisis.

 

The concept of federation of states is something that requires and will take time, only decades I hope.

But it is in our future, this is indisputable, too many challenges that no nation in the world will be able to face when isolated.

Covid is an example, but globalization in all its aspects requires a new economic and social models to be tackled together.

Otherwise our culture will quicky disappear.

 

A good example of federation is the Swiss one, broad autonomy to the various local realities but a strong central government.

You may not know that the female vote was only introduced in the early seventies of the twentieth century.

But not everywhere, even in the early nineties some cantons refused to introduce it by a referendum.

Well, following this, the Federal Court of Bern (country's supreme court) imposed it without if and without but.

But we are talking about medieval world where the King may do everything he wants (jocking...).

 

It would be desirable that Europe could have the same power but getting there is neither simple nor quick.

However, the European Community has imposed on them the cessation of bank secrecy, which is difficult for them to digest.

But if they want to work with the Community they have to adapt.

Which country alone would have succeeded ?

 

Then there are other considerations to make.

For example, I would have denied your entry into the community.

Too many differences among continental countries and you.

You have an imperialist past which, at least from an intellectual point of view, you don't wish to renounce even if the Empire had gone.

Concept difficult for you to digest, just think of your approach to the Commonwealth.

By the way, this is another reason that should have led to your refusal, you can't keep one foot in two shoes.

Not even fifty years later we see the consequences. Obviously they are just my opinions as a normal citizen.

 

Another mistake was accepting too many other nations to join.

I speak of many nations of the former Eastern bloc (Baltic countries for example) but above all to nations such as Hungary where revanschist if not fascist regurgitations were clearly visible.

See recent law giving full power to the President.

But also to accept Scandinavian Countries, too many cultural differences and why not welfare.

Europe should have stayed with the six founding countries plus eventually Spain, Portugal, Austria and Slovenia, this last with a strong "mittle-europe" sound.

Nothing would have prevented accepting others in a way of affiliation with benefits in terms of market and business but external to the Community.

 

The risk is high, there is still much to be done but if selfish and bitter nationalisms are avoided, a good future awaits us.

Time will tell.

I wish you all the best and above all good luck.

 

Max

[Tracker]

mtravel - 2020-05-02 2:14 PM

 

Nothing would have prevented accepting others in a way of affiliation with benefits in terms of market and business but external to the Community.

 

The risk is high, there is still much to be done but if selfish and bitter nationalisms are avoided, a good future awaits us.

 

I wish you all the best and above all good luck.

 

Max

 

Likewise Max, every good wish.

 

The people of many nations within Europe have much in common as well as national differences and maybe a restructured EU using affiliations rather than an all or nothing attitude would hold Europe together better - but I won't hold my breath waiting for the EU to reform itself.

 

Without doubt the EEC and it's predecessor did much to create trust and stability and help the rebuilding of Europe after 1945 but the world has changed as has Europe and the EU now needs to take a good look at how it serves the people of Europe - the one's that pay for it.

 

You may well be right, we in the UK are not natural federalists and trade, science, research and education related affiliations might well have served us all better.

[Bulletguy]

747 - 2020-05-02 8:49 AM

 

I think Max has brought a refreshing international flavour to this debate. It is good to see someone from the European mainland who still has faith in the EU at a time when some Europeans regard the EU in the same way as some British.

Sorted that typo for you.

[Guest pelmetman]

John52 - 2020-05-02 11:56 AM

 

Tracker - 2020-05-02 11:34 AM

 

My measure of beaurocracy is not tainted by political favouritism, judge them on what they do and what their system costs us all regardless of numbers.

In that case England is far worse than the EU :-(

 

You obviously haven't spent much time in Spain :D ..........

 

I was turned away from a ITV (MOT) station for having a tow bar 8-) .......

 

 

[Bulletguy]

mtravel - 2020-05-02 2:14 PM

 

Then there are other considerations to make.

For example, I would have denied your entry into the community.

Too many differences among continental countries and you.

You have an imperialist past which, at least from an intellectual point of view, you don't wish to renounce even if the Empire had gone.

Concept difficult for you to digest, just think of your approach to the Commonwealth.

By the way, this is another reason that should have led to your refusal, you can't keep one foot in two shoes.

Not even fifty years later we see the consequences. Obviously they are just my opinions as a normal citizen.

 

The risk is high, there is still much to be done but if selfish and bitter nationalisms are avoided, a good future awaits us.Time will tell. I wish you all the best and above all good luck.

 

Max

Totally agree which still shows even today and you don't need travel far to witness it. I don't know how many immigrant Brits live in Italy but the largest is Spain and then France. They are easily spotted by the little enclaves they create in those countries with many refusing to integrate....ironically what some UK Brits are notorious for whining about over foreign immigrants here!

 

Your 'one foot in two shoes' is a good analogy!

[Guest pelmetman]

Bulletguy - 2020-05-02 2:45 PM

 

mtravel - 2020-05-02 2:14 PM

 

Then there are other considerations to make.

For example, I would have denied your entry into the community.

Too many differences among continental countries and you.

You have an imperialist past which, at least from an intellectual point of view, you don't wish to renounce even if the Empire had gone.

Concept difficult for you to digest, just think of your approach to the Commonwealth.

By the way, this is another reason that should have led to your refusal, you can't keep one foot in two shoes.

Not even fifty years later we see the consequences. Obviously they are just my opinions as a normal citizen.

 

The risk is high, there is still much to be done but if selfish and bitter nationalisms are avoided, a good future awaits us.Time will tell. I wish you all the best and above all good luck.

 

Max

Totally agree which still shows even today and you don't need travel far to witness it. I don't know how many immigrant Brits live in Italy but the largest is Spain and then France. They are easily spotted by the little enclaves they create in those countries with many refusing to integrate....ironically what some UK Brits are notorious for whining about over foreign immigrants here!

 

Your 'one foot in two shoes' is a good analogy!

 

So WE agree ;-) ...........

 

We should never have joined >:-) .........

 

Fortunately us Brexiteers have sorted the problem for you :D ........

 

No need to thank us (lol) ........

[747]

John52 - 2020-05-02 10:51 AM

 

Tracker - 2020-05-02 10:32 AM

 

beaureaucratic

Bit rich to call them bureaucratic when the House of Lords alone is bigger than the whole of the EU Parliament for 27 countries.

 

And Britain is having to employ even more bureaucrats, not only to deal with Brexit, but just to try and find out second hand whats being decided for us in the meetings we are no longer allowed in to.

 

Members of the House of Lords are not paid a salary and EU Bureaucrats are paid handsomely. Members of the HofL get expenses for attending the House but I bet EU fat cats get even bigger expenses ... on top of their salary. 8-)

[mtravel]

Thanks for the analogy Bullet.

 

Ref. to English abroad:

 

I know the southern Spanish coast, an absurd agglomeration of residential buildings. Horrifying.

Do not think that there are only English, once I was camping on the Costa Daurada, not far away a small village with many two floors buildings. On the gates the most common name was Müller.

Many climb the hills behind the coast, the areas of Marbella and Malaga are full of small and large villas.

 

But don't think that you (and the Germans) only go to Spain or Portugal.

The south of Tuscany, between Florence and Arezzo, with its ancient farms on the hills, places with fantastic views, has been practically bought.

Real Estates and land, we speak of properties worth millions.

Entire small medieval villages were bought by British and Germans, restored and used as buen retiros.

 

Except for a few trips by motorhome, maybe in Croatia or Greece, we Italians with 8000km of coasts obviously seldom go abroad.

I mean by the sea.

Our trips are mostly cultural.

 

Max

[Bulletguy]

pelmetman - 2020-05-02 2:54 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2020-05-02 2:45 PM

 

mtravel - 2020-05-02 2:14 PM

 

Then there are other considerations to make.

For example, I would have denied your entry into the community.

Too many differences among continental countries and you.

You have an imperialist past which, at least from an intellectual point of view, you don't wish to renounce even if the Empire had gone.

Concept difficult for you to digest, just think of your approach to the Commonwealth.

By the way, this is another reason that should have led to your refusal, you can't keep one foot in two shoes.

Not even fifty years later we see the consequences. Obviously they are just my opinions as a normal citizen.

 

The risk is high, there is still much to be done but if selfish and bitter nationalisms are avoided, a good future awaits us.Time will tell. I wish you all the best and above all good luck.

 

Max

Totally agree which still shows even today and you don't need travel far to witness it. I don't know how many immigrant Brits live in Italy but the largest is Spain and then France. They are easily spotted by the little enclaves they create in those countries with many refusing to integrate....ironically what some UK Brits are notorious for whining about over foreign immigrants here!

 

Your 'one foot in two shoes' is a good analogy!

 

So WE agree ;-) ...........

 

We should never have joined >:-) .........

No "we" as in you and myself DO NOT agree. Your dyslexia is playing up again. I'm agreeing with Max's view as a non-Brit on British imperialist attitude and wanting 'one foot in two shoes' etc. You're an example of the hypocrite Brit thinking a Spanish number plate will pass off as a pretend "resident" so you can overstay in the EU you voted to come out of. Stay away from Europe...you didn't want them and they certainly do not want the likes of you. It's Scragness or Jaywick for you from now on.

[Tracker]

John52 - 2020-05-02 11:56 AM

 

Tracker - 2020-05-02 11:34 AM

 

My measure of beaurocracy is not tainted by political favouritism, judge them on what they do and what their system costs us all regardless of numbers.

In that case England is far worse than the EU :-(

 

Still waiting for you to justify that claim?

 

I guess, as ever, I will have a long wait?

[Tracker]

747 - 2020-05-02 3:16 PM

 

John52 - 2020-05-02 10:51 AM

 

Tracker - 2020-05-02 10:32 AM

 

beaureaucratic

Bit rich to call them bureaucratic when the House of Lords alone is bigger than the whole of the EU Parliament for 27 countries.

 

And Britain is having to employ even more bureaucrats, not only to deal with Brexit, but just to try and find out second hand whats being decided for us in the meetings we are no longer allowed in to.

 

Members of the House of Lords are not paid a salary and EU Bureaucrats are paid handsomely. Members of the HofL get expenses for attending the House but I bet EU fat cats get even bigger expenses ... on top of their salary. 8-)

 

Not to mention very generous pensions, paid holidays, sick pay and probably quite a few more self imposed perks that we used to help pay for.

[Guest pelmetman]

Bulletguy - 2020-05-02 3:37 PM

 

pelmetman - 2020-05-02 2:54 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2020-05-02 2:45 PM

 

mtravel - 2020-05-02 2:14 PM

 

Then there are other considerations to make.

For example, I would have denied your entry into the community.

Too many differences among continental countries and you.

You have an imperialist past which, at least from an intellectual point of view, you don't wish to renounce even if the Empire had gone.

Concept difficult for you to digest, just think of your approach to the Commonwealth.

By the way, this is another reason that should have led to your refusal, you can't keep one foot in two shoes.

Not even fifty years later we see the consequences. Obviously they are just my opinions as a normal citizen.

 

The risk is high, there is still much to be done but if selfish and bitter nationalisms are avoided, a good future awaits us.Time will tell. I wish you all the best and above all good luck.

 

Max

Totally agree which still shows even today and you don't need travel far to witness it. I don't know how many immigrant Brits live in Italy but the largest is Spain and then France. They are easily spotted by the little enclaves they create in those countries with many refusing to integrate....ironically what some UK Brits are notorious for whining about over foreign immigrants here!

 

Your 'one foot in two shoes' is a good analogy!

 

So WE agree ;-) ...........

 

We should never have joined >:-) .........

No "we" as in you and myself DO NOT agree. Your dyslexia is playing up again. I'm agreeing with Max's view as a non-Brit on British imperialist attitude and wanting 'one foot in two shoes' etc. You're an example of the hypocrite Brit thinking a Spanish number plate will pass off as a pretend "resident" so you can overstay in the EU you voted to come out of. Stay away from Europe...you didn't want them and they certainly do not want the likes of you. It's Scragness or Jaywick for you from now on.

 

Max obviously doesn't want us in the EU ;-) ..........

 

So at least 2 of us agree :D .........

 

 

[Bulletguy]

mtravel - 2020-05-02 3:27 PM

 

Thanks for the analogy Bullet.

 

Ref. to English abroad:

 

I know the southern Spanish coast, an absurd agglomeration of residential buildings. Horrifying.

Do not think that there are only English, once I was camping on the Costa Daurada, not far away a small village with many two floors buildings. On the gates the most common name was Müller.

Many climb the hills behind the coast, the areas of Marbella and Malaga are full of small and large villas.

 

But don't think that you (and the Germans) only go to Spain or Portugal.

The south of Tuscany, between Florence and Arezzo, with its ancient farms on the hills, places with fantastic views, has been practically bought.

Real Estates and land, we speak of properties worth millions.

Entire small medieval villages were bought by British and Germans, restored and used as buen retiros.

 

Except for a few trips by motorhome, maybe in Croatia or Greece, we Italians with 8000km of coasts obviously seldom go abroad.

I mean by the sea.

Our trips are mostly cultural.

 

Max

Max.....there are too many Brits in France and Spain for my liking. Each to their own but when i was touring the last thing i wanted to see once i'd left UK was more Brits, English pubs, fish 'n chip shops or burger bars! I can see that every day here!

 

Whatever country i was in i wanted to discover their foods, culture and attempt to learn a few words (often poorly but at least i'd try!). Most of my touring was in East European countries. Perhaps my favourite was Poland where i'd been many times but in 2018 for the first time i visited Moldova where i spent two weeks. Ok the capital, Chisinau, is rough, but away from there in the country villages can be found some real gems and Moldovans are super friendly people.

 

This British guy is a real 'culture vulture' who travels extensively in lesser known countries and vlogs on YouTube and here is one he made on his first visit to Chisinau. Stick with it, all his vlogs are worth watching.

 

 

and this sort of hospitality to a random foreign tourist just would not happen here in UK!

 

 

Check out his vids on Belarus also. Very interesting.

[mtravel]

---- Max obviously doesn't want us in the EU ---

 

I really don't care. It's not my problem.

It's your problem.

Or that 52% of you who will have to apologize to the remaining 48% in case things didn't turn out the way you think.

See the historical trend of your gross domestic product outside and inside the EU.

[mtravel]

Bulletguy - 2020-05-02 4:17 PM

 

Max.....there are too many Brits in France and Spain for my liking. Each to their own but when i was touring the last thing i wanted to see once i'd left UK was more Brits, English pubs, fish 'n chip shops or burger bars! I can see that every day here!

 

Whatever country i was in i wanted to discover their foods, culture and attempt to learn a few words (often poorly but at least i'd try!). Most of my touring was in East European countries. Perhaps my favourite was Poland where i'd been many times but in 2018 for the first time i visited Moldova where i spent two weeks. Ok the capital, Chisinau, is rough, but away from there in the country villages can be found some real gems and Moldovans are super friendly people.

 

This British guy is a real 'culture vulture' who travels extensively in lesser known countries and vlogs on YouTube and here is one he made on his first visit to Chisinau. Stick with it, all his vlogs are worth watching.

 

 

and this sort of hospitality to a random foreign tourist just would not happen here in UK!

 

 

Check out his vids on Belarus also. Very interesting.

 

With the exception of Belarus, Moldova and Bulgaria I have visited practically all the countries of the former Soviet bloc, including the Baltic States. I have been also in Russia as soon as the regime collapsed.

One of the options for next summer was Bulgaria, then the coronavirus came.

We'll see.

 

Max

 

P.S. Smiling. It turns out that some of you probably prefer fish & chips and junk food to a good paella or a huge Florentine steak.

What can I say ?

[Guest pelmetman]

mtravel - 2020-05-02 4:39 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2020-05-02 4:17 PM

 

Max.....there are too many Brits in France and Spain for my liking. Each to their own but when i was touring the last thing i wanted to see once i'd left UK was more Brits, English pubs, fish 'n chip shops or burger bars! I can see that every day here!

 

Whatever country i was in i wanted to discover their foods, culture and attempt to learn a few words (often poorly but at least i'd try!). Most of my touring was in East European countries. Perhaps my favourite was Poland where i'd been many times but in 2018 for the first time i visited Moldova where i spent two weeks. Ok the capital, Chisinau, is rough, but away from there in the country villages can be found some real gems and Moldovans are super friendly people.

 

This British guy is a real 'culture vulture' who travels extensively in lesser known countries and vlogs on YouTube and here is one he made on his first visit to Chisinau. Stick with it, all his vlogs are worth watching.

 

 

and this sort of hospitality to a random foreign tourist just would not happen here in UK!

 

 

Check out his vids on Belarus also. Very interesting.

 

With the exception of Belarus, Moldova and Bulgaria I have visited practically all the countries of the former Soviet bloc, including the Baltic States. I have been also in Russia as soon as the regime collapsed.

One of the options for next summer was Bulgaria, then the coronavirus came.

We'll see.

 

Max

 

P.S. Smiling. It turns out that some of you probably prefer fish & chips and junk food to a good paella or a huge Florentine steak.

What can I say ?

 

Funnily enough had paella mixta today ;-) .........

 

 

[Bulletguy]

mtravel - 2020-05-02 4:39 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2020-05-02 4:17 PM

 

Max.....there are too many Brits in France and Spain for my liking. Each to their own but when i was touring the last thing i wanted to see once i'd left UK was more Brits, English pubs, fish 'n chip shops or burger bars! I can see that every day here!

 

Whatever country i was in i wanted to discover their foods, culture and attempt to learn a few words (often poorly but at least i'd try!). Most of my touring was in East European countries. Perhaps my favourite was Poland where i'd been many times but in 2018 for the first time i visited Moldova where i spent two weeks. Ok the capital, Chisinau, is rough, but away from there in the country villages can be found some real gems and Moldovans are super friendly people.

 

This British guy is a real 'culture vulture' who travels extensively in lesser known countries and vlogs on YouTube and here is one he made on his first visit to Chisinau. Stick with it, all his vlogs are worth watching.

 

 

and this sort of hospitality to a random foreign tourist just would not happen here in UK!

 

 

Check out his vids on Belarus also. Very interesting.

 

With the exception of Belarus, Moldova and Bulgaria I have visited practically all the countries of the former Soviet bloc, including the Baltic States. I have been also in Russia as soon as the regime collapsed.

One of the options for next summer was Bulgaria, then the coronavirus came.

We'll see.

 

Max

 

P.S. Smiling. It turns out that some of you probably prefer fish & chips and junk food to a good paella or a huge Florentine steak.

What can I say ?

Bulgaria is a great country to tour. Just make sure to buy a Vignette at the first garage you find selling them as you need one to cover all roads for however long you are there, but the fee is very small even for a month. Police often do random roadside checks looking for the unsuspecting tourist without one and fines are very high, plus 'on the spot'. Eating out is very cheap and good restaurants plentiful. I preferred the country areas to the coast which is a bit tacky with shops full of tourist tat.

 

Baltics are nice though i didn't find it particularly cheap, not even Estonia which i really liked and found some great wild camping spots to park up.