arthur49 Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 webpax - 2020-06-28 1:33 PM All sense of proportion seems to have been lost with respect to Covid death rates. The vast majority of deaths in Sweden have, like elsewhere, been among the very elderly with comorbidities. The current death statistics for under 60's in Sweden is 0.002%. More people die in road traffic accidents in Sweden in a typical year. I'd rather take such a tiny risk and be able to freely go to church, go to a bar, eat in a restaurant and not see the bizarre sight of people walking around in masks looking like surgeons who've taken a wrong turn out of the hospital! And what are the stats for over 60s and over 70s? The "bizarre sight" you refer to is people showing respect for others since scientific evidence suggests masks worn provide little or no protection to the wearer but do afford some protection for others in shops, public transport etc should the wearer be infected. You may consider it a "tiny risk" but my 42 year old daughter had a hard time after contracting covid whilst working with covid patients in ICU. She was wearing full medical grade PPE at the time. So by all means take your "tiny risk" - I wish you well The main problem getting out of lockdown is behaviour - if individuals followed the advice we would get to a new normal quicker but so many take covid lightly, think they know better than health professionals and show little respect for others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur49 Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 Den - 2020-06-28 1:15 PM ........... it’s going to be extremely busy in the Uk. But will it be? Fewer tourists from mainland Europe? B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laimeduck Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 arthur49 - 2020-06-28 2:13 PM webpax - 2020-06-28 1:33 PM All sense of proportion seems to have been lost with respect to Covid death rates. The vast majority of deaths in Sweden have, like elsewhere, been among the very elderly with comorbidities. The current death statistics for under 60's in Sweden is 0.002%. More people die in road traffic accidents in Sweden in a typical year. I'd rather take such a tiny risk and be able to freely go to church, go to a bar, eat in a restaurant and not see the bizarre sight of people walking around in masks looking like surgeons who've taken a wrong turn out of the hospital! And what are the stats for over 60s and over 70s? The "bizarre sight" you refer to is people showing respect for others since scientific evidence suggests masks worn provide little or no protection to the wearer but do afford some protection for others in shops, public transport etc should the wearer be infected. You may consider it a "tiny risk" but my 42 year old daughter had a hard time after contracting covid whilst working with covid patients in ICU. She was wearing full medical grade PPE at the time. So by all means take your "tiny risk" - I wish you well The main problem getting out of lockdown is behaviour - if individuals followed the advice we would get to a new normal quicker but so many take covid lightly, think they know better than health professionals and show little respect for others I think you are spot on with these observations. It is the arrogance of the " I know better brigade" who are creating problems for everyone. I think the best way to proceed is to assume that everyone that you meet has the virus, so to stay safe and keep others safe, don't meet people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceM Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 Den - 2020-06-28 1:15 PM I can’t show this to Carole. I’m being greatly outvoted. I’d suggest you don’t take much notice of opinions expressed on this forum unless they relate to a technical issue. It’s likely that only a tiny minority of motorhomers regularly read on-line forums and even fewer contribute so with such a small sample and with many people having prejudices or an axe to grind our opinions are really not worth the pixel space they take up. Instead, do your own research (don’t rely on the media) and decide what will work for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rael Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 There is no right or wrong solution here. As I said earlier, the only way you might avoid getting/spreading Covid-19 is to stay indoors until a vaccine is found. If folk are going away in a motorhome it doesn't really make much difference if you stay in UK or go to Europe. I heard today that in the New Forest at least 15 campsites will not be opening this summer. Pubs that would usually let you stay overnight in the carpark, may not be very welcoming as they may well be utilising car parks for outdoor seating/dining areas. Now if that pattern is repeated around UK and the folk that normally go to Europe stay home then its going to be chaos on the roads and at campsites. Europe, with many, many more campsites, aires, stelplatz, sosta etc and much more space seems to me to be a safer bet? I wouldn't go near a ferry, I think the tunnel is probably the safest form of international travel as you remain completely isolated. In the end folk have to use common sense and do what they think will keep themselves and others safe. This could all be red herrings anyway, as yet we have not had the green light from the EU, they may not even let us in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matrix Meanderer Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 The first trip I'll be making across the channel is to Calais Wine Superstore using their free travel scheme! My voucher expired during lock down but those nice people at P&O have extended its validity until the end of September. Got a very empty wine fridge to refill ! Just a day trip should be enough staying on deck both ways. (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 2021 for us ;-) ........ After 4+ years fulltiming we're quite enjoying doing gardening and DIY again B-) ....... Along with a toilet I don't have to empty :D ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirou Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 rael - 2020-06-27 5:22 PMThink we are most likely to ditch the Greece part and maybe go to Croatia again or possibly Spain. A lot will depend on the list of countries we don't have to do 14 days quarantine on return. . Just a note that Croatian active cases are again ramping up considerably over the past few days. With the tourist season back in full swing they are unlikely to go back to a lockdown (it is their no.1 industry by far) but the decision might be out of their hands if they don't get it under control quickly. Also significant increases of cases in other neighboring countries so conditions for travelling to Greece by land from any direction seem to change daily. I suspect the entire mediteranean will see similar scenarios. Tourism is just too important for them to go back into all out lockdowns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webpax Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 colin - 2020-06-28 1:56 PM webpax - 2020-06-28 1:33 PM All sense of proportion seems to have been lost with respect to Covid death rates. The vast majority of deaths in Sweden have, like elsewhere, been among the very elderly with comorbidities. The current death statistics for under 60's in Sweden is 0.002%. More people die in road traffic accidents in Sweden in a typical year. I'd rather take such a tiny risk and be able to freely go to church, go to a bar, eat in a restaurant and not see the bizarre sight of people walking around in masks looking like surgeons who've taken a wrong turn out of the hospital! As of 26th June 5.55% of deaths in Sweden are for under 60, once you hit 60+ it ramps up considerably. Sweden is climbing the charts and is now one of the worst in Europe for death rates, whereas the surrounding Scandinavian countries are considerably lower. p.s. CV-19 in Sweden has so far this year killed 20 times the total number killed in road accidents last year, at that rate it is some 40 to 50 times more dangerous. 5.55% of the 0.005% of the Swedish population who've died with Covid i.e. a tiny percentage. Less than 200 people so fewer than killed in RTAs in Sweden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rael Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 spirou - 2020-06-28 7:29 PM rael - 2020-06-27 5:22 PMThink we are most likely to ditch the Greece part and maybe go to Croatia again or possibly Spain. A lot will depend on the list of countries we don't have to do 14 days quarantine on return. . Just a note that Croatian active cases are again ramping up considerably over the past few days. With the tourist season back in full swing they are unlikely to go back to a lockdown (it is their no.1 industry by far) but the decision might be out of their hands if they don't get it under control quickly. Also significant increases of cases in other neighboring countries so conditions for travelling to Greece by land from any direction seem to change daily. I suspect the entire mediteranean will see similar scenarios. Tourism is just too important for them to go back into all out lockdowns. Thanks for the info. Have now 99.99% knocked Greece on the head, booked on the Ancona-Igoumenitsa line, but can defer for up to 18 months. Pondering our options. Croatia is doable but not easy, Slovenia will let you transit, but can't stay as UK not on their safe list. Austria a non-starter at the moment. So would be France, Germany, Switzerland, Italy, Slovenia........ Might just go to Bournemouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 webpax - 2020-06-28 7:01 PM colin - 2020-06-28 1:56 PM webpax - 2020-06-28 1:33 PM All sense of proportion seems to have been lost with respect to Covid death rates. The vast majority of deaths in Sweden have, like elsewhere, been among the very elderly with comorbidities. The current death statistics for under 60's in Sweden is 0.002%. More people die in road traffic accidents in Sweden in a typical year. I'd rather take such a tiny risk and be able to freely go to church, go to a bar, eat in a restaurant and not see the bizarre sight of people walking around in masks looking like surgeons who've taken a wrong turn out of the hospital! As of 26th June 5.55% of deaths in Sweden are for under 60, once you hit 60+ it ramps up considerably. Sweden is climbing the charts and is now one of the worst in Europe for death rates, whereas the surrounding Scandinavian countries are considerably lower. p.s. CV-19 in Sweden has so far this year killed 20 times the total number killed in road accidents last year, at that rate it is some 40 to 50 times more dangerous. 5.55% of the 0.005% of the Swedish population who've died with Covid i.e. a tiny percentage. Less than 200 people so fewer than killed in RTAs in Sweden. 5,280 CV-19 deaths in Sweden, which as I posted is 20 times that of last years road deaths, and for less than 6 months. 369 of these where in their 60s and 1151 in their 70s, and not to forget the 218 under 60s but that hardly applies to the average motorhome owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 Not sure on the latest situation, but if you go into Sweden you might not be allowed out. https://www.euronews.com/2020/06/15/coronavirus-swedes-not-welcome-as-neighbours-open-their-borders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve H Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 I'm struggling to differentiate between those who have crowded on to our beaches from those who are choosing to go abroad and share campsites, aires etc with all the other EU motorhomers who are equally frustrated at having been locked down and will also be seeking out those parking spaces.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboyprowler Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 We just returned from Spain and France and found no problems. Very busy in the area around Calais, mostly French Belgian and German but no Brits in the sites we stopped in! Life has returned to an "apparent" normal, with few people wearing masks or gloves and little attempts at social distancing. But where was it worst? Back here in the UK, really busy and can't wait to leave to get back to Spain again. It is more than possible to keep safe in France and Spain, and of course, the bars and restaurants are open if you want to take that risk. Much better in Spain with S/D and service generally with masks and gloves. We felt quite safe in Spain, and there are very few motorhomes on the road, whereas in France it is quite busy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted June 29, 2020 Author Share Posted June 29, 2020 Hi Ainsley Our neighbours in Spain said exactly the same. They feel very safe and believe the Spanish government backed by the Police handled The situation very well and can’t believe what they see going on over here. We probably won’t make it to Spain on the next trip, maybe south of France Saintes-Maries-de-la-Mer on a very large spaced out Aire. ThNk you everyone for your input. It’s interesting to hear what everyone is doing this year and next. Stay safe Den Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevandali Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 Well, we tend to go on impulse quite a lot and this time is no exception........ the ferry is booked for 3rd August. :-) Our limited and impulsive reasoning was based on 'space' I fully agree that we have a lot of amazing places to visit in the UK but as always we are not geared up for motorhomes the same way as France. I know that if you think about 'what if' too much you would do nothing. Our plan is quite simple, armed with our gloves and masks if required, keep our selves to our selves, social distance and head for the wider open spaces. Not asking anyone to agree or disagree with our decisions but the bottom line for us is that both myself and my better half are classed as key workers and feel that we can keep our selves and others safe in the spacious areas of France. If they let us in :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rael Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 kevandali - 2020-06-29 11:37 PM Well, we tend to go on impulse quite a lot and this time is no exception........ the ferry is booked for 3rd August. :-) Our limited and impulsive reasoning was based on 'space' I fully agree that we have a lot of amazing places to visit in the UK but as always we are not geared up for motorhomes the same way as France. I know that if you think about 'what if' too much you would do nothing. Our plan is quite simple, armed with our gloves and masks if required, keep our selves to our selves, social distance and head for the wider open spaces. Not asking anyone to agree or disagree with our decisions but the bottom line for us is that both myself and my better half are classed as key workers and feel that we can keep our selves and others safe in the spacious areas of France. If they let us in :-) Looks like we will still be considered as part of the EU for travel purposes until 31/12/2020. Fifth paragraph from the end of this article by the EU https://tinyurl.com/ybaprsxr However, that probably doesn't stop EU countries blocking UK visitors as in yesterdays announcement by Greece to extend the ban on Brits by another two weeks, and who can blame them? I'm about to change my ferry ticket for Ancona - Igoumenitsa from 22nd July to an open ticket and try again next year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stvekay Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 laimeduck - 2020-06-27 5:03 PM Sorry...... I too cannot give you a positive on this - for 2 main reasons. 1) Whether you are careful or not you may well be spreading the virus by travelling around. You have to stop and interact with local people, shops, petrol stations, sites/aires, You also may get the virus from them, then unwittingly bring it back with you. I really don't think that's fair on the locals. 2) Unless your aim is to go and sit in a field staring at your navel, what are you going to do? The beauty of going to Europe is seeing the sights, sampling the food, watching the world go by from a pavement cafe etc etc. All high risk pastimes at present. As we are seeing in the USA and other places that have opened up too soon, there are second spikes coming and they will be more damaging and deadly than the original. So we are giving it a miss this year and finding the beautiful secluded walks around South East Kent (The Garden of England!) - away from the beaches I might add! Jeremy Strange sat on a pavement watching world go by etc purgatory for me. Naval watching more interesting, or walking on coasts woods, mountains where you can avoid people. Good job we are all different. Tunnel for us no mixing. Stay safe everyone. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTyke Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 With quarantine rules being removed we will be off through Europe in August, for me rural areas and hills are far safer than any cities. I can understand over 70s staying safe, we all need to gauge our own risks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted July 2, 2020 Author Share Posted July 2, 2020 It’s good to hear some positive comments and I totally agree. France is huge with some fantastic places to visit. We’ll make our way towards the Alps to my favorite site. Ifs it’s busy no problem loads of other Aires and places to distance us from others. Took out our yearly insurance with 3 months extra in the deal along with a cheaper price than last year £224.00 for the 2 of us Van serviced. Full fuel tank of cheap diesel. Water tank cleaned. Den Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witzend Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 Steve H - 2020-06-28 8:10 PM I'm struggling to differentiate between those who have crowded on to our beaches from those who are choosing to go abroad and share campsites, aires etc with all the other EU motorhomers who are equally frustrated at having been locked down and will also be seeking out those parking spaces.. I can't see any difference either why people can't just write off their jollys for this year is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceM Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 witzend - 2020-07-02 9:36 PM I can't see any difference either why people can't just write off their jollys for this year is beyond me. You should maybe ask yourself 'why would they?'. We now know that Sars-Cov-2 is mostly a mortality risk for the elderly and those with co-morbidities (including obesity). The majority of (younger) people , if they experience any impact from catching the virus, will at worst experience what feels like a bad case of the flu. Put simply, the majority of people, in England at least, no longer care because it’s not perceived as a great health threat to them especially now that the English government is winding down its prominence. And before someone points out ‘what about grand parents and parents’, as there tends to be so little close physical contact with either these days, once again, many people either don’t care or think their remote actions will not impact elderly relatives. My son has a friend living on the Cornish/Devon border who knows the owner of one of the larger campsites. They have over 2,000 people (people not necessarily individual caravans/tents etc) turning up from different parts of the country at the weekend and are fully booked for the next three weeks. The implications are obvious. I think the fact is, the political emphasis now is on trying to save whatever shred of the UK economy still exists from total extinction and that will understandably take precedence over short term health concerns that mostly impact the mortality of economically inactive. So based on all that, ie human nature, we can make our choices, ie stay at home, take a break in the UK or take a break abroad. We will mostly no doubt each assess our individual risk and disregard ‘group risk’. Each to their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancepar Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 Our plans were to be in France and Spain this year but we are now planning to leave it till next year instead, hopefully. Blackpool Illuminations here we come. We do have a lovely bolt hole, not far away we can visit anytime and have all to ourselves. Been there already this year. Can't say where it is, its a secret. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 lancepar - 2020-07-03 11:43 AM We do have a lovely bolt hole, not far away we can visit anytime and have all to ourselves. Been there already this year. Can't say where it is, its a secret. :-D Except it's named on your Photo :D :D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon says Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 Booked for Dieppe on the 16th July. We Intend to tour Brittany though I expect it to be very busy but we will try to pick quieter spots.. We only use Aires and are not ones for bars and restaurants so will be able to social distance. It's disappointing how timid Brits seem to have become but not surprising considering the panics we have been subjected to from the Government and media over the last 40 years eg climate change, BSE, food scares, bird flu etc, Yes there are risks to every activity but most are imagined often through ignorance. Commonsense seems to be at a premium these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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