John52 Posted March 17, 2021 Author Share Posted March 17, 2021 jumpstart - 2021-03-17 9:31 AM John52 - 2021-03-17 9:12 AM pelmetman - 2021-03-17 8:05 AM CurtainRaiser - 2021-03-16 9:37 PM If they had agreed to a limited inquiry in the summer, as some people were requesting, a lot of the mistakes made from November onwards might have been avoided and a lot of people would still be alive. But this is a government that can never admit that anything they do is wrong, nor are you allowed to criticise them anymore. Its funny how you LOSERS are refusing to criticise EU Clots??? *-) ......... Why are you changing the subject to the EU? But since you have, I suppose its necessary to point out you have shot yourself in the foot again. Because we know what science the EU was following What we need to know is what science BoJo is following to make sure no one else follows it Kindly explain what Science the EU countries are following in halting the Oxford vaccinations,putting millions at risk, even the WHO says there is no logic to it? Unlike BoJo, they will tell you what science they were following eg, a lack of data supporting its efficacy in patients aged over 65 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 jumpstart - 2021-03-16 9:38 PM It’s not about Johnson evading an enquiry because he’s not.....there isn’t one yet. Evasion is before the event. Because he is evading, the event cannot proceed. That is what was stated. If there were an enquiry presently under way, all he could do is cooperate, or refuse to cooperate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 Brian Kirby - 2021-03-17 12:22 PM jumpstart - 2021-03-16 9:38 PM It’s not about Johnson evading an enquiry because he’s not.....there isn’t one yet. Evasion is before the event. Because he is evading, the event cannot proceed. That is what was stated. If there were an enquiry presently under way, all he could do is cooperate, or refuse to cooperate. Seems to me to be a bit premature at the moment to start an enquiry. No point in having an enquiry into something until it's ' finished ' - and we have a long way to go before the pandemic is over. For example :Plenty of people have had a jab now - a lot have had one jab - a few have had two jabs - but they are all on lockdown - so hardly ever go anywhere. How do we know how well the single or double jab has worked until people move around as normal ? This is the time to be keeping records - making notes - to be used IF and when there is an enquiry into how the pandemic was planned for and handled. One thing we do know for sure is that the results of an enquiry will be disputed for years to come. ( i.e. Politics as normal ). :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 malc d - 2021-03-17 12:41 PM............................. Seems to me to be a bit premature at the moment to start an enquiry. No point in having an enquiry into something until it's ' finished ' - and we have a long way to go before the pandemic is over. For example :Plenty of people have had a jab now - a lot have had one jab - a few have had two jabs - but they are all on lockdown - so hardly ever go anywhere. How do we know how well the single or double jab has worked until people move around as normal ? This is the time to be keeping records - making notes - to be used IF and when there is an enquiry into how the pandemic was planned for and handled. One thing we do know for sure is that the results of an enquiry will be disputed for years to come. ( i.e. Politics as normal ). :-( Except that I think we need some interim examination of the neglect of the stockpile that had been built in readiness of a pandemic, which seems to underlie the discovery of a vast quantity of out of date stock when it was needed. We need a better short term understanding of why the initially successful track and trace procedure was suddenly abandoned. We need a better understanding of why no attempt was made to close our borders as an initial precaution. We need a better understanding of why existing local track and trace facilities were excluded in lieu of implementation of a "national" track and trace system that has proved both ineffective and extremely costly. None of these seem to me to require the panoply of a full scale public enquiry - just a series of specific enquiries into these apparent failures, and how and why they arose. The problem with a full-scale public enquiry, IMO, is that its findings will be too far distant to be of use in the interim. Viruses mutate continually, mutants can arise anywhere on earth, and travel rapidly to infect other countries. We need to identify the present errors quickly, and pot in place measures to prevent their repetition. There is no forecast of when, or where, the next pandemic may arise. There could even be one brewing now, undetected, somewhere around the planet! :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 Brian Kirby - 2021-03-17 12:22 PM jumpstart - 2021-03-16 9:38 PM It’s not about Johnson evading an enquiry because he’s not.....there isn’t one yet. Evasion is before the event. Because he is evading, the event cannot proceed. That is what was stated. If there were an enquiry presently under way, all he could do is cooperate, or refuse to cooperate. You can't evade something that isn't going to happen at present. There is no event to evade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 jumpstart - 2021-03-17 2:12 PM Brian Kirby - 2021-03-17 12:22 PM jumpstart - 2021-03-16 9:38 PM It’s not about Johnson evading an enquiry because he’s not.....there isn’t one yet. Evasion is before the event. Because he is evading, the event cannot proceed. That is what was stated. If there were an enquiry presently under way, all he could do is cooperate, or refuse to cooperate. You can't evade something that isn't going to happen at present. There is no event to evade. Hmmmm! :-) Well, I think you can. For instance, one might evade prosecution by leaving a country, even if that were before the prosecution had begun or charges been brought. Admittedly one needs prior knowledge of the event, and a desire to avoid it, to evade it - by whatever means. I would imagine that Boris must be acutely aware that some kind of enquiry is more or less inevitable, and that he will not come out of that enquiry smelling of roses, so he has both the prior knowledge, and the incentive to distance himself from it. However, we are into semantics. Call it what you like, but IMO he is busily kicking the enquiry can down the street as hard as he can - precisely because he fears reputational and political damage - both during, and following, the enquiry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 Brian Kirby - 2021-03-17 2:35 PM jumpstart - 2021-03-17 2:12 PM Brian Kirby - 2021-03-17 12:22 PM jumpstart - 2021-03-16 9:38 PM It’s not about Johnson evading an enquiry because he’s not.....there isn’t one yet. Evasion is before the event. Because he is evading, the event cannot proceed. That is what was stated. If there were an enquiry presently under way, all he could do is cooperate, or refuse to cooperate. You can't evade something that isn't going to happen at present. There is no event to evade. Hmmmm! :-) Well, I think you can. For instance, one might evade prosecution by leaving a country, even if that were before the prosecution had begun or charges been brought. Admittedly one needs prior knowledge of the event, and a desire to avoid it, to evade it - by whatever means. I would imagine that Boris must be acutely aware that some kind of enquiry is more or less inevitable, and that he will not come out of that enquiry smelling of roses, so he has both the prior knowledge, and the incentive to distance himself from it. However, we are into semantics. Call it what you like, but IMO he is busily kicking the enquiry can down the street as hard as he can - precisely because he fears reputational and political damage - both during, and following, the enquiry. Totally agree.........he's evading the issue. ;-) https://www.dictionary.com/browse/evade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 As detailed in the first post,Boris has promised to have an enquiry. So at some point we will have one. There is no evading. It just hasn't happened yet. Are you suggesting we are all evading Russian nuclear missiles at present? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 jumpstart - 2021-03-17 3:29 PM...............................Are you suggesting we are all evading Russian nuclear missiles at present? I certainly hope so!! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 jumpstart - 2021-03-17 3:29 PM As detailed in the first post,Boris has promised to have an enquiry. So at some point we will have one. There is no evading. It just hasn't happened yet. Are you suggesting we are all evading Russian nuclear missiles at present? If you believe Johnsons 'promises' they you're a bigger fool than I took you for. He promised an inquiry into rampant Islamophobia in the Tory party if he was elected leader. He even stated that on national tv.....but the minute he was elected he reneged on that promise. https://tinyurl.com/ksa33za6 https://tinyurl.com/fde6pz6k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 IF or when we ever get the results of any inquiry into the handling of the pandemic, the political lemmings of both major parties will believe what ever their leader wants them to believe - so nothing will ever be ' decided ' politically about how well or badly things were handled. For the rest of the country who are not fanatically committed politically, it will just make interesting reading. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted March 17, 2021 Author Share Posted March 17, 2021 jumpstart - 2021-03-17 3:29 PM Boris has promised to have an enquiry. So at some point we will have one. Serious question. How many more promises would BoJo have to break before you stop believing them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 John52 - 2021-03-17 7:53 PM jumpstart - 2021-03-17 3:29 PM Boris has promised to have an enquiry. So at some point we will have one. Serious question. How many more promises would BoJo have to break before you stop believing them? I didn’t say I believe him. But he can’t evade something that isn’t there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/17/this-was-avoidable-families-bereaved-in-second-wave-join-calls-for-covid-inquiry?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1615985032 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted March 18, 2021 Author Share Posted March 18, 2021 jumpstart - 2021-03-17 8:14 PM John52 - 2021-03-17 7:53 PM jumpstart - 2021-03-17 3:29 PM Boris has promised to have an enquiry. So at some point we will have one. Serious question. How many more promises would BoJo have to break before you stop believing them? I didn’t say I believe him. Actually, you did. I have quoted it above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 John52 - 2021-03-18 5:23 AM jumpstart - 2021-03-17 8:14 PM John52 - 2021-03-17 7:53 PM jumpstart - 2021-03-17 3:29 PM Boris has promised to have an enquiry. So at some point we will have one. Serious question. How many more promises would BoJo have to break before you stop believing them? I didn’t say I believe him. Actually, you did. I have quoted it above. No ,actually i didn't. Its just a quote from a newspaper that he promised to have an enquiry. That doesn't mean i believe he will have one. Anyway as he said he will have one , he's not evading one,he just hasn't said when. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted March 18, 2021 Author Share Posted March 18, 2021 jumpstart - 2021-03-17 3:29 PM As detailed in the first post,Boris has promised to have an enquiry. So at some point we will have one. Its perfectly clear You are saying we will have an enquiry because BoJo has promised one So you believe BoJo's promise I ask how many more promises BoJo will have to break before you stop believing him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted March 18, 2021 Author Share Posted March 18, 2021 Resolution Foundation says the late lockdown cost 27,000 deaths. The lockdown Keir Starmer was calling for and BoJo said would be the 'height of absurdity' and that Keir Startmer wanted to 'Cancel Christmas' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 It's funny how are resident Boris HATERS/EU Lovers aren't demanding the EU have a inquiry into their incompetent vaccine roll out that will cost lives? 8-) ........... Ruddy Hypocrites *-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 John52 - 2021-03-18 8:21 AM jumpstart - 2021-03-17 3:29 PM As detailed in the first post,Boris has promised to have an enquiry. So at some point we will have one. Its perfectly clear You are saying we will have an enquiry because BoJo has promised one So you believe BoJo's promise I ask how many more promises BoJo will have to break before you stop believing him No, haven’t said I do or don't, it’s from your first post, so presumably that means you believe him. You can believe that I believe him if it makes you happy but that doesn’t make it true. Can’t answer your second question as I haven’t said I believe him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 John52 - 2021-03-18 8:26 AM Resolution Foundation says the late lockdown cost 27,000 deaths. The lockdown Keir Starmer was calling for and BoJo said would be the 'height of absurdity' and that Keir Startmer wanted to 'Cancel Christmas' Can you imagine how many must be dying in the EU because of Squabbling over vaccines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-03-18 8:27 AM It's funny how are resident Boris HATERS/EU Lovers aren't demanding the EU have a inquiry into their incompetent vaccine roll out that will cost lives? 8-) ........... Ruddy Hypocrites *-) ......... Hypocrites!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) You seem to have forgotten (already!!) that we are no longer in the EU, so demanding an EU enquiry would achieve what, exactly??? However, we are (only just, thanks to Brexit) still in the UK, so can reasonably demand an enquiry into the UK's handling of the pandemic. Some would prefer to kick this as far down the street as possible. You seem to be in that group. But why? Others (including me) think enquiries into specific failings should be commenced with immediate effect, primarily because the reasons for those failings need to be identified, in order for preventive measures to be implemented. Otherwise, we risk making the same mistakes with the next pandemic - which may arise at any time, even before the present pandemic is fully under control. So. why don't you want to know what went wrong? Do you fear an embarrassing answer, or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 jumpstart - 2021-03-18 8:35 AM John52 - 2021-03-18 8:26 AM Resolution Foundation says the late lockdown cost 27,000 deaths. The lockdown Keir Starmer was calling for and BoJo said would be the 'height of absurdity' and that Keir Startmer wanted to 'Cancel Christmas' Can you imagine how many must be dying in the EU because of Squabbling over vaccines. Yes. But what does that have to do with the UK's handling of the pandemic? Johnson is, after all, the UK PM, not the EU PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 jumpstart - 2021-03-17 8:14 PM John52 - 2021-03-17 7:53 PM jumpstart - 2021-03-17 3:29 PM Boris has promised to have an enquiry. So at some point we will have one. Serious question. How many more promises would BoJo have to break before you stop believing them? I didn’t say I believe him. But he can’t evade something that isn’t there. It seems you can: Yesterday, upon the stair, I met a man who wasn't there. I met him there again today, I wish that man would go away? (Apologies to Mearns) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 jumpstart - 2021-03-18 7:08 AM John52 - 2021-03-18 5:23 AM jumpstart - 2021-03-17 8:14 PM John52 - 2021-03-17 7:53 PM jumpstart - 2021-03-17 3:29 PM Boris has promised to have an enquiry. So at some point we will have one. Serious question. How many more promises would BoJo have to break before you stop believing them? I didn’t say I believe him. Actually, you did. I have quoted it above. No ,actually i didn't. Its just a quote from a newspaper that he promised to have an enquiry. That doesn't mean i believe he will have one. Anyway as he said he will have one , he's not evading one,he just hasn't said when. This seems awfully evasive! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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