stevec176 Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 Have been on EHU for 4 days then drove for about 3 hours to Newbury Show arriving yesterday afternoon, and now running off 2x 100amp batteries and 100w solar panel. My problem is this morning had the TV on listening to Sir Ken Bruce when all power went off. I turned the power controller back on to check battery level which showed hab batteries only about 75% charged, can't say exactly as I only get lights. The solar controller was showing battery 2 as fully charged but battery 1 in need of charge. We went for a walk around the show for about 4 hours, quite sunny, and when we came back battery 1 still wasn't fully charged. I ran the engine for about 30 mins and all indicators showed both batteries fully charged. My wife has watched about 90 mins of tennis and the solar controller is showing both batteries as fully charged. I've checked both batteries with everything off and they both read 12.6 volts is that good or bad? or am I looking for new batteries? The batteries are 5 years old, Banner Energy Bull 957 51 100/110 amp. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 Steve, To the best of my knowledge the Banner Energy Bull batteries are NOT sealed for life or maintenance free batteries and previous reports have stated they consume large quantities of water so have you checked the electrolyte/water level lately? They could just be very low on water. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted July 9, 2021 Author Share Posted July 9, 2021 Having just had a look can't see any sign of liquid so as I haven't even checked a battery for about 30 years is it distilled or de-ionised water I put in? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 stevec176 - 2021-07-09 7:08 PM ...is it distilled or de-ionised water I put in? Thanks Either. Halford sell De-Ionised as Top up water in 1 litre or 5 litre bottles https://www.halfords.com/motoring/battery-maintenance/battery-accessories/halfords-battery-top-up-water-1l-402248.html The level should cover the plates and normally be to the bottom of the filler tubes. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 Keithl - 2021-07-09 7:25 PM stevec176 - 2021-07-09 7:08 PM ...is it distilled or de-ionised water I put in? Thanks Either. Halford sell De-Ionised as Top up water in 1 litre or 5 litre bottles https://www.halfords.com/motoring/battery-maintenance/battery-accessories/halfords-battery-top-up-water-1l-402248.html The level should cover the plates and normally be to the bottom of the filler tubes. Keith. I have two Energy Bull batteries used as the habitation battery in my PVC. I can confirm that they are quite thirsty, and need regular topping up. General guidance for electrolyte level in batteries of this type is about 8mm above the separators. In the Banner Energy Bull batteries, there is a plastic stalk projecting downwards from the filler tube, with a projection at the lower end. The electrolyte level was at the level of the projection, when the batteries were new. I have therefore taken the small of the projection or tab to be a level indicator. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Banner’s Energy Bull electrolyte-level checking advice is as follows: How often must I check the electrolyte level in an Energy Bull or Buffalo Bull? The electrolyte level must be checked in line with frequency of use and charge voltage. - In the case of daily charging or discharge, the intervals between electrolyte checks should amount to one month. - In the case of weekly charging or discharge, maintenance should take place on a quarterly basis. Before handling the battery, it is essential that you put on your personal protection equipment (safety eyewear, ...). Only use de-ionised or distilled water for topping up the electrolyte (no mineral or spring water). - Open the cell plugs with an appropriate tool. - Top up the cell as far as the maximum marking (see the marking on the outside of the casing or the cell clip). - Close the cell plugs. - Fully charge the battery in order to thoroughly mix the electrolyte (the battery should gas). Plate parts that are not covered with acid will be damaged irreversibly! Banner descibes the Enegy Bull battery as Maintenance-friendly, easy to open and with MIN/MAX markings on the transparent box but my experience is that the cell-caps can be VERY difficult to unscrew (Banner markets an opening tool) https://www.leisurebattery.net/product-page/battery-opening-tool-banner-duracell and, although the battery’s translucent (not “transparent”) case does carry MIN/MAX markings, I’ve never found them useful. Regarding topping-up, Banner advises In the case of conventional and EFM batteries, regular electrolyte level checks should be made and if necessary, top up with demineralized or distilled water to the maximum acid mark, or 15 mm above the upper plate edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted July 10, 2021 Author Share Posted July 10, 2021 Thanks, now I know so will continue to monitor them but all I now need is some water to top them up. At the Newbury Show in a very wet field and my one hope was the Mobile electrician her but he doesn't have any. Will have to trawl round the other stalls or maybe try and move the van and go to a garage. Anyone at the show who has any, why you should I don't know, help please other wise no football final. Thanks :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Derek Uzzell - 2021-07-10 8:34 AM ================================================================================= Plate parts that are not covered with acid will be damaged irreversibly![/b] ================================================================================= I think that the above sentence fully answers Steve's question. I will add that having made a simple tool from a piece of scrap metal, removing the cell plugs is not extremely difficult. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auditor Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Just use some tap water. Many years ago, a local delivery firm, using electric vehicles, scrapped its deionised water plant, when it was found that the local water was just as usable. I've been using tap water, in batteries, for years, now, with no noticeable detrimental effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 I agree with the tap water idea in your situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveandlisa Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Boil a kettle of tap water and let it go cold (soft water is best) B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted July 10, 2021 Author Share Posted July 10, 2021 Managed to find a couple of litres of deionised water, after a 4 mile bike ride, and have managed to fill 1 battery and nearly the second so now trying to charge them up by running the engine. Many years ago I always put cooled boiled water into the batteries but as batteries have progressed I didn't know if that would cause a bigger problem. Thanks for all your replies. For those thinking of coming to the show tomorrow I wouldn't recommend it, disappointing, not what I consider many stalls, limited choices and it's wet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikefitz Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 At 5 years old your batteries are past useful service life. You are wasting your time trying to revive them. There is a need to accept that lead acid leisure batteries are a consumable item, anything over 3 years is a bonus. Batteries are loosing capacity continually and with natural ageing and lack of electrolyte its probable you 100Ah batteries now only have a few % of capacity left, perhaps 5Ah or less. The monitoring system is recording the batteries as 'full' based on voltage, not the actual energy stored in the battery. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted July 10, 2021 Author Share Posted July 10, 2021 Thanks Mike, I think I had come to the same conclusion but as I'm in the middle of my holiday I was hoping they would last just a bit longer until I get home but as my system has just died again I guess not. From Monday the rest of my holiday is on EHU so if I can manage till then we should be OK. Now I need to decide which batteries to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 A simple swap would be to replace the Banner Energy Bull 957 51 batteries with a pair of Varta LFD90 batteries. (Example adverts here) https://www.batterymegastore.co.uk/product/varta-lfd90-dual-purpose-leisure-battery/ https://www.tayna.co.uk/leisure-batteries/varta/lfd90/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-tbd7MDa8QIVyJ7tCh2cDgVJEAQYASABEgKrGPD_BwE The LFD90 has the same dimensions as the Banner 957 51 but is ’non-maintainable’ (so it’s fit-and-forget until the battery becomes senile!) Allan Evans was fond of the Varta LFD90 http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/battery-technology.php and plenty of forum members (including me) have chosen it as a replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted July 11, 2021 Author Share Posted July 11, 2021 Thanks Derek, that was going to be my next question, 'What do others recommend as a swap' so thanks. I'm travelling down to around Poole for 10 days on EHU so hopefully we can manage till we get home but if not at least I know what to look for. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 And if you are a C&MC member you get 10% off at Tayna! https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/membership/member-offers/tayna-batteries/ Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted July 18, 2021 Author Share Posted July 18, 2021 Current batteries definitely defunked, even after being on EHU for a couple of days there's only enough charge for the odd hour even with brilliant sunshine. Have looked at the Varta LFD90 but they are being discontinued shortly. Have been recommended the Yuasa 100amp EFB, has anyone dealt with this make model please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 stevec176 - 2021-07-18 6:30 PM Have looked at the Varta LFD90 but they are being discontinued shortly. What! I bought one of the very first LFD90's back in 2011 and was just planning on replacing it so will have to move quickly as I definitely want another. Thanks for the heads up. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 stevec176 - 2021-07-18 6:30 PM Current batteries definitely defunked, even after being on EHU for a couple of days there's only enough charge for the odd hour even with brilliant sunshine. Have looked at the Varta LFD90 but they are being discontinued shortly. Have been recommended the Yuasa 100amp EFB, has anyone dealt with this make model please. It would appear that Varta are replacing the “LFD” range of ‘conventional’ batteries with the “LED” range that are EFB-type. https://batteryworld.varta-automotive.com/en-gb/dual_purpose_efb The LED95 would be the successor to the LFD90 https://www.varta-automotive.com/en-gb/products/varta-professional-dual-purpose-efb/930-095-085 and Tayna lists it here (though the length dimension quoted should 353mm not 315mm, and it’s temporarily out of stock.) https://www.tayna.co.uk/search/varta%20led Regarding the Yuasa L36-EFB 100AH battery (Tayna advert here) https://www.tayna.co.uk/leisure-batteries/yuasa/l36-efb/ this was discussed in this October 2020 thread. https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/off-grid-leisure-battery-durite-VSR-setup/56410/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 Just ordered an LFD90 from Tayna with C&MC discount, due in next few days. Lets hope this one lasts as long as the previous! Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 I’ve extracted the following text from an earlier forum thread The following link was provided by the late-Allan Evans and should be essential reading for anyone considering replacing their motorhome’s leisure battery. http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/battery-technology.php In the “The Best Batteries” section of that webpage Allan Evans offered five suggestions in price order. The two most expensive batteries are gel type and Allan listed their potential disadvantages. That leaves the Varta LFD/Bosch L ranges, the Yuasa L36-EFB and the Exide ET650. Varta LFD90 (£105) https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-90ah-varta-lfd-90-professional-leisure-battery-930090080/ Yuasa L36-EFB (£120) https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-yuasa-100ah-efb-leisure-battery-l36-efb/ Exide ET650 (£140) https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-100ah-exide-et650-leisure-battery-ncc-class-a/ All three have similar physical dimensions (though I see that Alpha Batteries states that their warranty is 2, 3 or 4 years respectively) and received wisdom is that the Halfords HLB700 battery https://www.halfords.com/motoring/batteries/leisure-batteries/halfords-leisure-battery-hlb700-682063.html is a ‘relabelled’ Yuasa L36-EFB (but slightly cheaper). Past comments from forum members have been positive about the Varta LFD90 that Allan Evans began to recommend several years ago. Regarding EFB batteries, Varta advises as follows: EFB batteries – for compact and mid-range cars with start-stop EFB batteries are a further development of conventional lead-acid batteries. The Polyvlies material on the surface of the positive plate guarantees that the EFB has a longer service life. EFB batteries have a low internal resistance and are characterized by twice the number of charging cycles* in comparison with conventional starter batteries, as well as a high load capacity. EFB batteries are suitable for the power supply of cars: - with simple automatic start-stop systems - without start-stop, but with demanding driving requirements (e.g. in urban traffic), - without start-stop, but with extensive equipment. If the vehicle is originally supplied with an EFB battery, an EFB battery can also be used as a replacement. If the car owner requires even greater performance or have a very demanding driving profile with a lot of urban traffic, a powerful AGM battery can be selected. The Varta LED95 (930 095 085) battery currently seems difficult to source in the UK, but LFD90 (930 090 080) batteries are still readily available and relatively inexpensive. This firm offers a 4-years warranty https://www.batterymegastore.co.uk/product/varta-lfd90-dual-purpose-leisure-battery/ though I’m not sure how that would apply replacement-wise when production of the LFD90 has ceased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teccer1234 Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 off topic but I'd like to ask Alan b a question, as my van is just sitting on my driveway for the foreseeable future, it seems to me to be silly to have the solar panels charging my batteries every day when it's not needed, is it advisable to disconnect the panels from the regulator and just keep an eye on the voltage ocasionally TIA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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