Brian Kirby Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 John52 - 2021-09-08 8:42 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-08 5:46 PM £36 billion in the first three years- all of which is going to the NHS, If thats all going to the NHS where is the £37 billion for Test & Trace coming from? It won't, will it? It all comes from the same pot - that common treasury pot that is fed by taxation in all its forms. But, back to my question above, who should pay? What is the fairest way to raise the extra tax that is needed to pay off the amount borrowed to fix Covid (which is still very much around) and get health and social services adequately and fairly funded? Blaming the Tories for the present mess is fair enough, but it doesn't solve the problem. It doesn't matter which "headline" potential source is "taxed", the cost always falls back, one way or another, on the populace at large. My view is that a simple increase in Income Tax, with some change to actual rates and bands, would be the fairest. That might be augmented by an increase in property tax, by similar adjustments to Council Tax bands and rates. But, in both cases, the most tax is levied from those in the middle. The uber rich aren't a good source of tax revenue because there are so few of them, plus they have the greatest access to ways to shelter their money, plus they'll just move their wealth (and themselves) to a different country if it suits them. The poor have no money or assets, so such taxes don't significantly alter their circumstances. Which leaves "Johnny-in-the-middle" (which I guess includes almost all of us) as the most productive target. So what is the fairest way to tax Johhny-in-the-middle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-08 5:46 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-08 10:32 AM colin - 2021-09-08 8:56 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-08 8:24 AM colin - 2021-09-08 8:09 AM Well Labour seem to be struggling to argue against this TORY TAX RISE, but how could they argue against this LEFTY policy. The actual tax rise is to pay for the 'free' money the government has been handing out for the last 18 months, for the majority the social care costs problem won't be addressed by this, Boris 'the butcher' Kemal said at the last election he had a policy ready to go, it seems not. Ah.......But its "not" a Lefty policy ;-) .......... Its a BREXITEERS policy :D ............British tax being spent in Britain........On Brits B-) .......... You can dress a pig up anyway you want, even put some lipstick on it, it's still a pig. In this case it's a lefty tax raising policy, if you think Brexit is all about raising taxes, then you are just another lefty. Our Brexiteer Prime minister is "Actually" doing something about the health care crisis B-) ....... Unlike previous governments who run away from the problem squealing like stuck pigs (lol) (lol) (lol) ........ Please explain how this 10% increase in tax which will hit the lowest paid hardest and raise £36 billion in the first three years- all of which is going to the NHS, is a sign of Johnson "Actually " doing something about the health care crisis? So young people dont get old nowadays??? 8-) .......... What did caring Labour do? >:-) ......... They voted against the NHS and the care sector getting more cash 8-) 8-) 8-) .......... Labour once again proving its the NASTY PARTY (lol) (lol) (lol) ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-09-09 8:41 AM What did caring Labour do? >:-) ......... .. They created the NHS. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 malc d - 2021-09-09 9:19 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 8:41 AM What did caring Labour do? >:-) ......... .. They created the NHS. :-| Now they're trying to stop it getting cash? 8-) ........... So are YOU going to side with Labour and say the NHS shouldn't get the money??? :D ......... (lol) (lol) (lol) ............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-09-09 9:35 AM malc d - 2021-09-09 9:19 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 8:41 AM What did caring Labour do? >:-) ......... .. They created the NHS. :-| Now they're trying to stop it getting cash? 8-) ........... So are YOU going to side with Labour and say the NHS shouldn't get the money??? :D ......... (lol) (lol) (lol) ............ Let's look at what Labour are actually saying (and I note a lot of the new red wall Tory MPs who abstained on the vote) that we tax those more that can afford it. What is your objection to taxing millionaires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-09-09 9:35 AM malc d - 2021-09-09 9:19 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 8:41 AM What did caring Labour do? >:-) ......... .. They created the NHS. :-| Now they're trying to stop it getting cash? 8-) ........... So are YOU going to side with Labour and say the NHS shouldn't get the money??? :D ......... (lol) (lol) (lol) ............ It depends what they plan to do with the cash . At the moment there is no plan, except handing out cash. If their plan is to give it to their chums from the golf club for useless software or unusable PPE - I would vote against it. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 malc d - 2021-09-09 11:52 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 9:35 AM malc d - 2021-09-09 9:19 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 8:41 AM What did caring Labour do? >:-) ......... .. They created the NHS. :-| Now they're trying to stop it getting cash? 8-) ........... So are YOU going to side with Labour and say the NHS shouldn't get the money??? :D ......... (lol) (lol) (lol) ............ It depends what they plan to do with the cash . At the moment there is no plan, except handing out cash. If their plan is to give it to their chums from the golf club for useless software or unusable PPE - I would vote against it. :-| Well there's a lot of new jobs being advertised which makes a change. £270,000 a year interest anyone? Not you Pelmethead as you will need to have graduated from somewhere better than the university of life. https://www.gatenbysanderson.com/job/GSe78293.4/Chief-Executive-of-the-ICS%E2%80%99s-Integrated-Care-Board-West-Yorkshire-and-Harrogate/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 Brian Kirby - 2021-09-09 8:19 AM John52 - 2021-09-08 8:42 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-08 5:46 PM £36 billion in the first three years- all of which is going to the NHS, If thats all going to the NHS where is the £37 billion for Test & Trace coming from? It won't, will it? It all comes from the same pot - that common treasury pot that is fed by taxation in all its forms. But, back to my question above, who should pay? Brexiters and Johnson acolytes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-09 10:24 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 9:35 AM malc d - 2021-09-09 9:19 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 8:41 AM What did caring Labour do? >:-) ......... .. They created the NHS. :-| Now they're trying to stop it getting cash? 8-) ........... So are YOU going to side with Labour and say the NHS shouldn't get the money??? :D ......... (lol) (lol) (lol) ............ Let's look at what Labour are actually saying (and I note a lot of the new red wall Tory MPs who abstained on the vote) that we tax those more that can afford it. What is your objection to taxing millionaires? Will working millionaires not pay the tax? ;-) .......... The only millionaire I know who is objecting to it is YOU >:-) ......... Typical Nasty Greedy Lefty *-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 malc d - 2021-09-09 11:52 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 9:35 AM malc d - 2021-09-09 9:19 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 8:41 AM What did caring Labour do? >:-) ......... .. They created the NHS. :-| Now they're trying to stop it getting cash? 8-) ........... So are YOU going to side with Labour and say the NHS shouldn't get the money??? :D ......... (lol) (lol) (lol) ............ It depends what they plan to do with the cash . At the moment there is no plan, except handing out cash. If their plan is to give it to their chums from the golf club for useless software or unusable PPE - I would vote against it. :-| So you know that for a fact do you Malc? ;-) ........ Or are you just letting your anti Boris bias get the better of you again *-) ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted September 9, 2021 Author Share Posted September 9, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-09-09 7:03 PM malc d - 2021-09-09 11:52 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 9:35 AM malc d - 2021-09-09 9:19 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 8:41 AM What did caring Labour do? >:-) ......... .. They created the NHS. :-| Now they're trying to stop it getting cash? 8-) ........... So are YOU going to side with Labour and say the NHS shouldn't get the money??? :D ......... (lol) (lol) (lol) ............ It depends what they plan to do with the cash . At the moment there is no plan, except handing out cash. If their plan is to give it to their chums from the golf club for useless software or unusable PPE - I would vote against it. :-| So you know that for a fact do you Malc? ;-) ........ What part of the word 'if' didn't you understand *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-09-09 7:00 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-09 10:24 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 9:35 AM malc d - 2021-09-09 9:19 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 8:41 AM What did caring Labour do? >:-) ......... .. They created the NHS. :-| Now they're trying to stop it getting cash? 8-) ........... So are YOU going to side with Labour and say the NHS shouldn't get the money??? :D ......... (lol) (lol) (lol) ............ Let's look at what Labour are actually saying (and I note a lot of the new red wall Tory MPs who abstained on the vote) that we tax those more that can afford it. What is your objection to taxing millionaires? Will working millionaires not pay the tax? ;-) .......... The only millionaire I know who is objecting to it is YOU >:-) ......... Typical Nasty Greedy Lefty *-) ......... I'm quite happy paying more tax always have been. What is your objection to Johnson making me pay more tax? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-09 8:09 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 7:00 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-09 10:24 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 9:35 AM malc d - 2021-09-09 9:19 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 8:41 AM What did caring Labour do? >:-) ......... .. They created the NHS. :-| Now they're trying to stop it getting cash? 8-) ........... So are YOU going to side with Labour and say the NHS shouldn't get the money??? :D ......... (lol) (lol) (lol) ............ Let's look at what Labour are actually saying (and I note a lot of the new red wall Tory MPs who abstained on the vote) that we tax those more that can afford it. What is your objection to taxing millionaires? Will working millionaires not pay the tax? ;-) .......... The only millionaire I know who is objecting to it is YOU >:-) ......... Typical Nasty Greedy Lefty *-) ......... I'm quite happy paying more tax always have been. What is your objection to Johnson making me pay more tax? So why are you complaining? :-| ........ BTW.......When do you reckon you'd have paid back the 4.1 million you got? ;-) ....... I paid back the 1500 quid I got years ago >:-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-09-09 8:14 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-09 8:09 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 7:00 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-09 10:24 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 9:35 AM malc d - 2021-09-09 9:19 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 8:41 AM What did caring Labour do? >:-) ......... .. They created the NHS. :-| Now they're trying to stop it getting cash? 8-) ........... So are YOU going to side with Labour and say the NHS shouldn't get the money??? :D ......... (lol) (lol) (lol) ............ Let's look at what Labour are actually saying (and I note a lot of the new red wall Tory MPs who abstained on the vote) that we tax those more that can afford it. What is your objection to taxing millionaires? Will working millionaires not pay the tax? ;-) .......... The only millionaire I know who is objecting to it is YOU >:-) ......... Typical Nasty Greedy Lefty *-) ......... I'm quite happy paying more tax always have been. What is your objection to Johnson making me pay more tax? So why are you complaining? :-| ........ BTW.......When do you reckon you'd have paid back the 4.1 million you got? ;-) ....... I paid back the 1500 quid I got years ago >:-) ......... What part of the 10% increase in tax do you not understand? All of it by the sound of it. And it's stupidity like yours that Johnson depends on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-09 9:12 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 8:14 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-09 8:09 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 7:00 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-09 10:24 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 9:35 AM malc d - 2021-09-09 9:19 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 8:41 AM What did caring Labour do? >:-) ......... .. They created the NHS. :-| Now they're trying to stop it getting cash? 8-) ........... So are YOU going to side with Labour and say the NHS shouldn't get the money??? :D ......... (lol) (lol) (lol) ............ Let's look at what Labour are actually saying (and I note a lot of the new red wall Tory MPs who abstained on the vote) that we tax those more that can afford it. What is your objection to taxing millionaires? Will working millionaires not pay the tax? ;-) .......... The only millionaire I know who is objecting to it is YOU >:-) ......... Typical Nasty Greedy Lefty *-) ......... I'm quite happy paying more tax always have been. What is your objection to Johnson making me pay more tax? So why are you complaining? :-| ........ BTW.......When do you reckon you'd have paid back the 4.1 million you got? ;-) ....... I paid back the 1500 quid I got years ago >:-) ......... What part of the 10% increase in tax do you not understand? All of it by the sound of it. And it's stupidity like yours that Johnson depends on. So you think its fair that the feckless should get everything including carehomes for free? :-| ......... But then again you do have a history of freeloading off the tax payer yourself dont you >:-) ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-09-10 7:54 AM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-09 9:12 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 8:14 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-09 8:09 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 7:00 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-09 10:24 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 9:35 AM malc d - 2021-09-09 9:19 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 8:41 AM What did caring Labour do? >:-) ......... .. They created the NHS. :-| Now they're trying to stop it getting cash? 8-) ........... So are YOU going to side with Labour and say the NHS shouldn't get the money??? :D ......... (lol) (lol) (lol) ............ Let's look at what Labour are actually saying (and I note a lot of the new red wall Tory MPs who abstained on the vote) that we tax those more that can afford it. What is your objection to taxing millionaires? Will working millionaires not pay the tax? ;-) .......... The only millionaire I know who is objecting to it is YOU >:-) ......... Typical Nasty Greedy Lefty *-) ......... I'm quite happy paying more tax always have been. What is your objection to Johnson making me pay more tax? So why are you complaining? :-| ........ BTW.......When do you reckon you'd have paid back the 4.1 million you got? ;-) ....... I paid back the 1500 quid I got years ago >:-) ......... What part of the 10% increase in tax do you not understand? All of it by the sound of it. And it's stupidity like yours that Johnson depends on. So you think its fair that the feckless should get everything including carehomes for free? :-| ......... But then again you do have a history of freeloading off the tax payer yourself dont you >:-) ....... Thank you for proving to everyone that you don't understand any of the proposals. How do you think a 10% increase in tax for the low paid to allow older people to have care is rewarding fecklessness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted September 10, 2021 Author Share Posted September 10, 2021 CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-10 8:29 AM How do you think a 10% increase in tax for the low paid to allow older people to have care is rewarding fecklessness? Looks more like an increase in tax for the low paid to allow the feckless (like Pelmet) to inherit a property they have not earned, Johnson to send another batch of cronies to his House of Lords, Crony Contracts for Tory Donors etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-09-09 7:03 PM Or are you just letting your anti Boris bias get the better of you again *-) ....... My anti- Boris bias is based on his record - I see no reason to think he has changed. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 malc d - 2021-09-10 10:10 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 7:03 PM Or are you just letting your anti Boris bias get the better of you again *-) ....... My anti- Boris bias is based on his record - I see no reason to think he has changed. :-| I forgot being a Limp Liberal.......You don't like Tories :D ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-10 8:29 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-10 7:54 AM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-09 9:12 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 8:14 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-09 8:09 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 7:00 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-09 10:24 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 9:35 AM malc d - 2021-09-09 9:19 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 8:41 AM What did caring Labour do? >:-) ......... .. They created the NHS. :-| Now they're trying to stop it getting cash? 8-) ........... So are YOU going to side with Labour and say the NHS shouldn't get the money??? :D ......... (lol) (lol) (lol) ............ Let's look at what Labour are actually saying (and I note a lot of the new red wall Tory MPs who abstained on the vote) that we tax those more that can afford it. What is your objection to taxing millionaires? Will working millionaires not pay the tax? ;-) .......... The only millionaire I know who is objecting to it is YOU >:-) ......... Typical Nasty Greedy Lefty *-) ......... I'm quite happy paying more tax always have been. What is your objection to Johnson making me pay more tax? So why are you complaining? :-| ........ BTW.......When do you reckon you'd have paid back the 4.1 million you got? ;-) ....... I paid back the 1500 quid I got years ago >:-) ......... What part of the 10% increase in tax do you not understand? All of it by the sound of it. And it's stupidity like yours that Johnson depends on. So you think its fair that the feckless should get everything including carehomes for free? :-| ......... But then again you do have a history of freeloading off the tax payer yourself dont you >:-) ....... Thank you for proving to everyone that you don't understand any of the proposals. How do you think a 10% increase in tax for the low paid to allow older people to have care is rewarding fecklessness? Only a Lefty could make £130 = 10% of £20,000 *-) ......... It's no wonder when you managed to screw the taxpayer for 82k per job 25 years ago :-| ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 FYI Dave, the feckless will get the same as they do now, everything paid for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-09-10 10:24 AM malc d - 2021-09-10 10:10 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 7:03 PM Or are you just letting your anti Boris bias get the better of you again *-) ....... My anti- Boris bias is based on his record - I see no reason to think he has changed. :-| I forgot being a Limp Liberal.......You don't like Tories :D ........ I don't support any politician, of any party, who has proved to be untrustworthy. I'm sure there are some very good Tory politicians about - it's just that none of them will have anything to do with Johnson . ( Even his brother Jo resigned ). :-| p.s. It's being reported in the main stream media today that Labour have edged past the Tories in the polls for the first time for yonks. I would guess that sooner or later even the ( educated ) Tories will see Johnson as a liability. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-09-10 7:54 AM................................So you think its fair that the feckless should get everything including carehomes for free? :-| ................ Dictionary definition of "feckless" "Feckless: feeble; weak; ineffectual; irresponsible." Are you then saying that the "feeble; weak; ineffectual; or irresponsible" should not be cared for at public expense? Is it not almost exclusively those who become "feeble" or "weak" who are taken into care homes, because they are feeble or weak? Why should that condition exclude them from receiving care? And why should only the rich, as you imply, be able to receive that care at the public expense? As to the ineffectual or irresponsible, I have not heard that they are selected for care home places at the public expense. Can you substantiate that claim? Are you merely assuming that anyone who needs accommodating in a care home must be feeble; weak; ineffectual; or irresponsible, and that if they are, it is somehow their own fault? So developing Alzheimer's, for example, is their own fault? Or any other of the "frailties of age"? So what if you become afflicted? Should you instead receive the same "treatment" as was normal for weak babies in ancient Greece or Rome? To be assessed as to your worth and, if judged worthless, be abandoned to die in some remote location? Or would a place in a care home be preferable? And what if, by then, you had no money for the fees? Would you then plead fecklessness, and accept accommodation at the public expense? Would that be "fair"? Confused it is that I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 Brian Kirby - 2021-09-10 12:35 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-10 7:54 AM................................So you think its fair that the feckless should get everything including carehomes for free? :-| ................ Dictionary definition of "feckless" "Feckless: feeble; weak; ineffectual; irresponsible." A perfect definition of Pelmetman. Are you then saying that the "feeble; weak; ineffectual; or irresponsible" should not be cared for at public expense? Is it not almost exclusively those who become "feeble" or "weak" who are taken into care homes, because they are feeble or weak? Why should that condition exclude them from receiving care? And why should only the rich, as you imply, be able to receive that care at the public expense? Prior to his wife inheriting her mothers Weymouth house he sang a very different tune to the arrogance he now shows in posts. He now sees himself as a member of the nouveau riche with delusions of grandeur and an incessant need to boast. As to the ineffectual or irresponsible, I have not heard that they are selected for care home places at the public expense. Can you substantiate that claim? Another question which will go unanswered and ignored. Are you merely assuming that anyone who needs accommodating in a care home must be feeble; weak; ineffectual; or irresponsible, and that if they are, it is somehow their own fault? So developing Alzheimer's, for example, is their own fault? Or any other of the "frailties of age"? So what if you become afflicted? Should you instead receive the same "treatment" as was normal for weak babies in ancient Greece or Rome? To be assessed as to your worth and, if judged worthless, be abandoned to die in some remote location? Or would a place in a care home be preferable? And what if, by then, you had no money for the fees? Would you then plead fecklessness, and accept accommodation at the public expense? Would that be "fair"? As he's void of any empathy and full of self-importance this would give him a kick up the arse as his cuckoo world came crashing down around him. He'd wonder what the hell hit him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 Brian Kirby - 2021-09-10 12:35 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-10 7:54 AM................................So you think its fair that the feckless should get everything including carehomes for free? :-| ................ Dictionary definition of "feckless" "Feckless: feeble; weak; ineffectual; irresponsible." Are you then saying that the "feeble; weak; ineffectual; or irresponsible" should not be cared for at public expense? Is it not almost exclusively those who become "feeble" or "weak" who are taken into care homes, because they are feeble or weak? Why should that condition exclude them from receiving care? And why should only the rich, as you imply, be able to receive that care at the public expense? As to the ineffectual or irresponsible, I have not heard that they are selected for care home places at the public expense. Can you substantiate that claim? Are you merely assuming that anyone who needs accommodating in a care home must be feeble; weak; ineffectual; or irresponsible, and that if they are, it is somehow their own fault? So developing Alzheimer's, for example, is their own fault? Or any other of the "frailties of age"? So what if you become afflicted? Should you instead receive the same "treatment" as was normal for weak babies in ancient Greece or Rome? To be assessed as to your worth and, if judged worthless, be abandoned to die in some remote location? Or would a place in a care home be preferable? And what if, by then, you had no money for the fees? Would you then plead fecklessness, and accept accommodation at the public expense? Would that be "fair"? Confused it is that I am. As you well know there are those who chose to be feckless, it is they that I refer to *-) ............ No doubt being a Limp Liberal you think they should be allowed to have the choice? :-| ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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