Guest pelmetman Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 malc d - 2021-09-10 11:50 AM p.s. It's being reported in the main stream media today that Labour have edged past the Tories in the polls for the first time for yonks. I would guess that sooner or later even the ( educated ) Tories will see Johnson as a liability. :-| The first time since the 26th Jan ;-) ......... So I wouldn't get tooooo excited :D ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-09-10 1:42 PM malc d - 2021-09-10 11:50 AM p.s. It's being reported in the main stream media today that Labour have edged past the Tories in the polls for the first time for yonks. I would guess that sooner or later even the ( educated ) Tories will see Johnson as a liability. :-| The first time since the 26th Jan ;-) ......... So I wouldn't get tooooo excited :D ........ Floating voters never get excited - we leave that to sheep like voters like yourself. It only needs another one of Johnsons unreliable promises to excite his flock - and put him ahead again. His slogans department must be working around the clock. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-09-10 1:39 PM........................As you well know there are those who chose to be feckless, it is they that I refer to *-) ..................... You are on extraordinarily thin ice, there, Dave! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-09-10 10:29 AM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-10 8:29 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-10 7:54 AM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-09 9:12 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 8:14 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-09 8:09 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 7:00 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-09 10:24 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 9:35 AM malc d - 2021-09-09 9:19 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 8:41 AM What did caring Labour do? >:-) ......... .. They created the NHS. :-| Now they're trying to stop it getting cash? 8-) ........... So are YOU going to side with Labour and say the NHS shouldn't get the money??? :D ......... (lol) (lol) (lol) ............ Let's look at what Labour are actually saying (and I note a lot of the new red wall Tory MPs who abstained on the vote) that we tax those more that can afford it. What is your objection to taxing millionaires? Will working millionaires not pay the tax? ;-) .......... The only millionaire I know who is objecting to it is YOU >:-) ......... Typical Nasty Greedy Lefty *-) ......... I'm quite happy paying more tax always have been. What is your objection to Johnson making me pay more tax? So why are you complaining? :-| ........ BTW.......When do you reckon you'd have paid back the 4.1 million you got? ;-) ....... I paid back the 1500 quid I got years ago >:-) ......... What part of the 10% increase in tax do you not understand? All of it by the sound of it. And it's stupidity like yours that Johnson depends on. So you think its fair that the feckless should get everything including carehomes for free? :-| ......... But then again you do have a history of freeloading off the tax payer yourself dont you >:-) ....... Thank you for proving to everyone that you don't understand any of the proposals. How do you think a 10% increase in tax for the low paid to allow older people to have care is rewarding fecklessness? Only a Lefty could make £130 = 10% of £20,000 *-) ......... It's no wonder when you managed to screw the taxpayer for 82k per job 25 years ago :-| ......... If National Insurance is rising from 12% to 13.25% it is a risie by 1.25 percentage points. Which in percentage terms is rising by just over 10%. It is a 10% tax hike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted September 10, 2021 Author Share Posted September 10, 2021 This has set the young against the old, locals against immigrants etc Workers earning over £9538 pay more tax (Which won't even scratch the surface of the debts Johnson has rung up on Crony Contracts for useless PPE etc) Whilst rentiers inheriting £10 billion tax free come away unscathed Thanks to Brexit scupering any chance of an EU wide tax treaty getting into Her Majesty's Tax Havens. Same Old Tories They must be p!ssing themselves at setting the plebs fighting amongst themselves like rats in a sack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted September 10, 2021 Author Share Posted September 10, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-09-10 10:29 AM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-10 8:29 AM 10% increase in tax Only a Lefty could make £130 = 10% of £20,000 *-) ......... ........ He did not say 10% of the whole amount He said 10% increase in the tax on it And I thought you were a successful businessman *-) (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted September 11, 2021 Share Posted September 11, 2021 Interesting that Liz Kendall once the 'Shadow Minister for Care and Older People', has previously advocated using NI to increase NHS spending, and Gordon Brown has used NI increases to do this. Now we have Stammer advocating a 'Landlord Tax', when he should know that those who have businesses renting property already pay NI, and any 'Landlord Tax' is just liable to mean rises in rents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted September 11, 2021 Share Posted September 11, 2021 colin - 2021-09-11 2:37 PM Interesting that Liz Kendall once the 'Shadow Minister for Care and Older People', has previously advocated using NI to increase NHS spending, and Gordon Brown has used NI increases to do this. Now we have Stammer advocating a 'Landlord Tax', when he should know that those who have businesses renting property already pay NI, and any 'Landlord Tax' is just liable to mean rises in rents. But did they make a manifesto pledge specifically stating “We promise not to raise the rates of national insurance, income tax or VAT. This is a tax guarantee that will protect the incomes of hard-working families across the next parliament." Thats the big mistake Johnson made.....breaking manifesto pledges, and not for the first time either. He's on borrowed time now imo. Along with Brexit he's caused enough damage to the country and the sooner we're rid of the clown the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted September 11, 2021 Share Posted September 11, 2021 Bulletguy - 2021-09-11 3:06 PM colin - 2021-09-11 2:37 PM Interesting that Liz Kendall once the 'Shadow Minister for Care and Older People', has previously advocated using NI to increase NHS spending, and Gordon Brown has used NI increases to do this. Now we have Stammer advocating a 'Landlord Tax', when he should know that those who have businesses renting property already pay NI, and any 'Landlord Tax' is just liable to mean rises in rents. But did they make a manifesto pledge specifically stating “We promise not to raise the rates of national insurance, income tax or VAT. This is a tax guarantee that will protect the incomes of hard-working families across the next parliament." Thats the big mistake Johnson made.....breaking manifesto pledges, and not for the first time either. He's on borrowed time now imo. Along with Brexit he's caused enough damage to the country and the sooner we're rid of the clown the better. Boris 'the butcher' Kemal deserves all the flak he gets for making stupid pledges, and all those who believed him deserve equal flak, but the plain simple facts are taxes will have to rise to pay for the mess we are in, and Labour wouldn't have faired any better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted September 11, 2021 Share Posted September 11, 2021 Listen to the liar spouting in front of his Brexit bus......£600 million a week here!!! *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted September 11, 2021 Share Posted September 11, 2021 colin - 2021-09-11 4:04 PM Bulletguy - 2021-09-11 3:06 PM colin - 2021-09-11 2:37 PM Interesting that Liz Kendall once the 'Shadow Minister for Care and Older People', has previously advocated using NI to increase NHS spending, and Gordon Brown has used NI increases to do this. Now we have Stammer advocating a 'Landlord Tax', when he should know that those who have businesses renting property already pay NI, and any 'Landlord Tax' is just liable to mean rises in rents. But did they make a manifesto pledge specifically stating “We promise not to raise the rates of national insurance, income tax or VAT. This is a tax guarantee that will protect the incomes of hard-working families across the next parliament." Thats the big mistake Johnson made.....breaking manifesto pledges, and not for the first time either. He's on borrowed time now imo. Along with Brexit he's caused enough damage to the country and the sooner we're rid of the clown the better. Boris 'the butcher' Kemal deserves all the flak he gets for making stupid pledges, and all those who believed him deserve equal flak, but the plain simple facts are taxes will have to rise to pay for the mess we are in, and Labour wouldn't have faired any better. We won't ever know that as they were not in government. What we do know as it's crystal clear is the mess Brexit has created and the inactions of Johnson "government". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted September 11, 2021 Author Share Posted September 11, 2021 colin - 2021-09-11 2:37 PM and any 'Landlord Tax' is just liable to mean rises in rents. If they could get away with charging more they would, whether they pay tax or not. But English rentiers who inherit their multi billion property portfolio tax free and live off the income will walk away from Johnson's tax rises unscathed. Thanks to Brexit scuppering an EU wide tax treaty getting into Her Majesty's Tax Havens. Leaving the plebs to fall out amongst themselves over who pays. Same Old Tory Divide and Rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 11, 2021 Share Posted September 11, 2021 CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-10 2:55 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-10 10:29 AM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-10 8:29 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-10 7:54 AM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-09 9:12 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 8:14 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-09 8:09 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 7:00 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-09 10:24 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 9:35 AM malc d - 2021-09-09 9:19 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 8:41 AM What did caring Labour do? >:-) ......... .. They created the NHS. :-| Now they're trying to stop it getting cash? 8-) ........... So are YOU going to side with Labour and say the NHS shouldn't get the money??? :D ......... (lol) (lol) (lol) ............ Let's look at what Labour are actually saying (and I note a lot of the new red wall Tory MPs who abstained on the vote) that we tax those more that can afford it. What is your objection to taxing millionaires? Will working millionaires not pay the tax? ;-) .......... The only millionaire I know who is objecting to it is YOU >:-) ......... Typical Nasty Greedy Lefty *-) ......... I'm quite happy paying more tax always have been. What is your objection to Johnson making me pay more tax? So why are you complaining? :-| ........ BTW.......When do you reckon you'd have paid back the 4.1 million you got? ;-) ....... I paid back the 1500 quid I got years ago >:-) ......... What part of the 10% increase in tax do you not understand? All of it by the sound of it. And it's stupidity like yours that Johnson depends on. So you think its fair that the feckless should get everything including carehomes for free? :-| ......... But then again you do have a history of freeloading off the tax payer yourself dont you >:-) ....... Thank you for proving to everyone that you don't understand any of the proposals. How do you think a 10% increase in tax for the low paid to allow older people to have care is rewarding fecklessness? Only a Lefty could make £130 = 10% of £20,000 *-) ......... It's no wonder when you managed to screw the taxpayer for 82k per job 25 years ago :-| ......... If National Insurance is rising from 12% to 13.25% it is a risie by 1.25 percentage points. Which in percentage terms is rising by just over 10%. It is a 10% tax hike. So what you mean't to say was a 10% hike in NI.......Which in real world terms equals a months worth of Big Macs for the feckless >:-) ............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 11, 2021 Share Posted September 11, 2021 Brian Kirby - 2021-09-10 2:39 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-10 1:39 PM........................As you well know there are those who chose to be feckless, it is they that I refer to *-) ..................... You are on extraordinarily thin ice, there, Dave! :-D How so? :-S ......... I have never been unemployed :-| ...... At times I had two jobs ;-) ...... Pray point out where the ice is? :D ..... Coz all I see is liberal turdspeak >:-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted September 11, 2021 Share Posted September 11, 2021 I just looked up " feckless " and it doesn't mention being unemployed. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 11, 2021 Share Posted September 11, 2021 malc d - 2021-09-11 8:34 PM I just looked up " feckless " and it doesn't mention being unemployed. :-D Would you prefer the term F**king Lazy too Idle to Work Scrounger? ;-) ........ I have other terms available upon request :D ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted September 11, 2021 Share Posted September 11, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-09-11 7:26 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-10 2:55 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-10 10:29 AM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-10 8:29 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-10 7:54 AM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-09 9:12 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 8:14 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-09 8:09 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 7:00 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-09 10:24 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 9:35 AM malc d - 2021-09-09 9:19 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 8:41 AM What did caring Labour do? >:-) ......... .. They created the NHS. :-| Now they're trying to stop it getting cash? 8-) ........... So are YOU going to side with Labour and say the NHS shouldn't get the money??? :D ......... (lol) (lol) (lol) ............ Let's look at what Labour are actually saying (and I note a lot of the new red wall Tory MPs who abstained on the vote) that we tax those more that can afford it. What is your objection to taxing millionaires? Will working millionaires not pay the tax? ;-) .......... The only millionaire I know who is objecting to it is YOU >:-) ......... Typical Nasty Greedy Lefty *-) ......... I'm quite happy paying more tax always have been. What is your objection to Johnson making me pay more tax? So why are you complaining? :-| ........ BTW.......When do you reckon you'd have paid back the 4.1 million you got? ;-) ....... I paid back the 1500 quid I got years ago >:-) ......... What part of the 10% increase in tax do you not understand? All of it by the sound of it. And it's stupidity like yours that Johnson depends on. So you think its fair that the feckless should get everything including carehomes for free? :-| ......... But then again you do have a history of freeloading off the tax payer yourself dont you >:-) ....... Thank you for proving to everyone that you don't understand any of the proposals. How do you think a 10% increase in tax for the low paid to allow older people to have care is rewarding fecklessness? Only a Lefty could make £130 = 10% of £20,000 *-) ......... It's no wonder when you managed to screw the taxpayer for 82k per job 25 years ago :-| ......... If National Insurance is rising from 12% to 13.25% it is a risie by 1.25 percentage points. Which in percentage terms is rising by just over 10%. It is a 10% tax hike. So what you mean't to say was a 10% hike in NI.......Which in real world terms equals a months worth of Big Macs for the feckless >:-) ............ I said a 10% increase in tax, are you that thick that you don't understand that NI is a tax? "What is National Insurance? National Insurance is a tax on earnings and self-employed profits. Your National Insurance contributions are paid into a fund, from which some state benefits are paid. This includes the state pension, statutory sick pay or maternity leave, or entitlement to additional unemployment benefits." Read more: https://www.which.co.uk/money/tax/national-insurance/what-is-national-insurance-a01s79v8uxrp - Which? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 11, 2021 Share Posted September 11, 2021 CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-11 9:09 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-11 7:26 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-10 2:55 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-10 10:29 AM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-10 8:29 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-10 7:54 AM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-09 9:12 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 8:14 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-09 8:09 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 7:00 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-09 10:24 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 9:35 AM malc d - 2021-09-09 9:19 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 8:41 AM What did caring Labour do? >:-) ......... .. They created the NHS. :-| Now they're trying to stop it getting cash? 8-) ........... So are YOU going to side with Labour and say the NHS shouldn't get the money??? :D ......... (lol) (lol) (lol) ............ Let's look at what Labour are actually saying (and I note a lot of the new red wall Tory MPs who abstained on the vote) that we tax those more that can afford it. What is your objection to taxing millionaires? Will working millionaires not pay the tax? ;-) .......... The only millionaire I know who is objecting to it is YOU >:-) ......... Typical Nasty Greedy Lefty *-) ......... I'm quite happy paying more tax always have been. What is your objection to Johnson making me pay more tax? So why are you complaining? :-| ........ BTW.......When do you reckon you'd have paid back the 4.1 million you got? ;-) ....... I paid back the 1500 quid I got years ago >:-) ......... What part of the 10% increase in tax do you not understand? All of it by the sound of it. And it's stupidity like yours that Johnson depends on. So you think its fair that the feckless should get everything including carehomes for free? :-| ......... But then again you do have a history of freeloading off the tax payer yourself dont you >:-) ....... Thank you for proving to everyone that you don't understand any of the proposals. How do you think a 10% increase in tax for the low paid to allow older people to have care is rewarding fecklessness? Only a Lefty could make £130 = 10% of £20,000 *-) ......... It's no wonder when you managed to screw the taxpayer for 82k per job 25 years ago :-| ......... If National Insurance is rising from 12% to 13.25% it is a risie by 1.25 percentage points. Which in percentage terms is rising by just over 10%. It is a 10% tax hike. So what you mean't to say was a 10% hike in NI.......Which in real world terms equals a months worth of Big Macs for the feckless >:-) ............ I said a 10% increase in tax, are you that thick that you don't understand that NI is a tax? "What is National Insurance? National Insurance is a tax on earnings and self-employed profits. Your National Insurance contributions are paid into a fund, from which some state benefits are paid. This includes the state pension, statutory sick pay or maternity leave, or entitlement to additional unemployment benefits." Read more: https://www.which.co.uk/money/tax/national-insurance/what-is-national-insurance-a01s79v8uxrp - Which? NI is a fraction of the tax that people pay *-) .......... I doubt anyone will notice it......especially the working poor as they have their income topped up with tax credits ;-) ....... BTW have you repaid that 4.1 million you sponged off the British taxpayer 25 years ago......yet? :D ........ Or are you still expecting your 50 employee's to pick up the tab? >:-) ....... Just askin (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted September 11, 2021 Share Posted September 11, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-09-11 9:21 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-11 9:09 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-11 7:26 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-10 2:55 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-10 10:29 AM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-10 8:29 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-10 7:54 AM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-09 9:12 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 8:14 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-09 8:09 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 7:00 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-09 10:24 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 9:35 AM malc d - 2021-09-09 9:19 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 8:41 AM What did caring Labour do? >:-) ......... .. They created the NHS. :-| Now they're trying to stop it getting cash? 8-) ........... So are YOU going to side with Labour and say the NHS shouldn't get the money??? :D ......... (lol) (lol) (lol) ............ Let's look at what Labour are actually saying (and I note a lot of the new red wall Tory MPs who abstained on the vote) that we tax those more that can afford it. What is your objection to taxing millionaires? Will working millionaires not pay the tax? ;-) .......... The only millionaire I know who is objecting to it is YOU >:-) ......... Typical Nasty Greedy Lefty *-) ......... I'm quite happy paying more tax always have been. What is your objection to Johnson making me pay more tax? So why are you complaining? :-| ........ BTW.......When do you reckon you'd have paid back the 4.1 million you got? ;-) ....... I paid back the 1500 quid I got years ago >:-) ......... What part of the 10% increase in tax do you not understand? All of it by the sound of it. And it's stupidity like yours that Johnson depends on. So you think its fair that the feckless should get everything including carehomes for free? :-| ......... But then again you do have a history of freeloading off the tax payer yourself dont you >:-) ....... Thank you for proving to everyone that you don't understand any of the proposals. How do you think a 10% increase in tax for the low paid to allow older people to have care is rewarding fecklessness? Only a Lefty could make £130 = 10% of £20,000 *-) ......... It's no wonder when you managed to screw the taxpayer for 82k per job 25 years ago :-| ......... If National Insurance is rising from 12% to 13.25% it is a risie by 1.25 percentage points. Which in percentage terms is rising by just over 10%. It is a 10% tax hike. So what you mean't to say was a 10% hike in NI.......Which in real world terms equals a months worth of Big Macs for the feckless >:-) ............ I said a 10% increase in tax, are you that thick that you don't understand that NI is a tax? "What is National Insurance? National Insurance is a tax on earnings and self-employed profits. Your National Insurance contributions are paid into a fund, from which some state benefits are paid. This includes the state pension, statutory sick pay or maternity leave, or entitlement to additional unemployment benefits." Read more: https://www.which.co.uk/money/tax/national-insurance/what-is-national-insurance-a01s79v8uxrp - Which? NI is a fraction of the tax that people pay *-) .......... I doubt anyone will notice it......especially the working poor as they have their income topped up with tax credits ;-) ....... BTW have you repaid that 4.1 million you sponged off the British taxpayer 25 years ago......yet? :D ........ Or are you still expecting your 50 employee's to pick up the tab? >:-) ....... Just askin (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... My point was that Ni is a tax, a tax that has been increased by more than 10%. Good that you are finally admitting that we have a working poor after ten years of Tory government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-11 9:42 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-11 9:21 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-11 9:09 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-11 7:26 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-10 2:55 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-10 10:29 AM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-10 8:29 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-10 7:54 AM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-09 9:12 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 8:14 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-09 8:09 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 7:00 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-09 10:24 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 9:35 AM malc d - 2021-09-09 9:19 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 8:41 AM What did caring Labour do? >:-) ......... .. They created the NHS. :-| Now they're trying to stop it getting cash? 8-) ........... So are YOU going to side with Labour and say the NHS shouldn't get the money??? :D ......... (lol) (lol) (lol) ............ Let's look at what Labour are actually saying (and I note a lot of the new red wall Tory MPs who abstained on the vote) that we tax those more that can afford it. What is your objection to taxing millionaires? Will working millionaires not pay the tax? ;-) .......... The only millionaire I know who is objecting to it is YOU >:-) ......... Typical Nasty Greedy Lefty *-) ......... I'm quite happy paying more tax always have been. What is your objection to Johnson making me pay more tax? So why are you complaining? :-| ........ BTW.......When do you reckon you'd have paid back the 4.1 million you got? ;-) ....... I paid back the 1500 quid I got years ago >:-) ......... What part of the 10% increase in tax do you not understand? All of it by the sound of it. And it's stupidity like yours that Johnson depends on. So you think its fair that the feckless should get everything including carehomes for free? :-| ......... But then again you do have a history of freeloading off the tax payer yourself dont you >:-) ....... Thank you for proving to everyone that you don't understand any of the proposals. How do you think a 10% increase in tax for the low paid to allow older people to have care is rewarding fecklessness? Only a Lefty could make £130 = 10% of £20,000 *-) ......... It's no wonder when you managed to screw the taxpayer for 82k per job 25 years ago :-| ......... If National Insurance is rising from 12% to 13.25% it is a risie by 1.25 percentage points. Which in percentage terms is rising by just over 10%. It is a 10% tax hike. So what you mean't to say was a 10% hike in NI.......Which in real world terms equals a months worth of Big Macs for the feckless >:-) ............ I said a 10% increase in tax, are you that thick that you don't understand that NI is a tax? "What is National Insurance? National Insurance is a tax on earnings and self-employed profits. Your National Insurance contributions are paid into a fund, from which some state benefits are paid. This includes the state pension, statutory sick pay or maternity leave, or entitlement to additional unemployment benefits." Read more: https://www.which.co.uk/money/tax/national-insurance/what-is-national-insurance-a01s79v8uxrp - Which? NI is a fraction of the tax that people pay *-) .......... I doubt anyone will notice it......especially the working poor as they have their income topped up with tax credits ;-) ....... BTW have you repaid that 4.1 million you sponged off the British taxpayer 25 years ago......yet? :D ........ Or are you still expecting your 50 employee's to pick up the tab? >:-) ....... Just askin (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... My point was that Ni is a tax, a tax that has been increased by more than 10%. Good that you are finally admitting that we have a working poor after ten years of Tory government. Those working poor are getting their biggest pay rise in history thanks to Brexit and the Tory government >:-) .......... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-57656327 https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-wages-hospitality-retail-pandemic-b1890591.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-09-12 9:25 AM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-11 9:42 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-11 9:21 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-11 9:09 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-11 7:26 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-10 2:55 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-10 10:29 AM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-10 8:29 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-10 7:54 AM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-09 9:12 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 8:14 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-09 8:09 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 7:00 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-09 10:24 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 9:35 AM malc d - 2021-09-09 9:19 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 8:41 AM What did caring Labour do? >:-) ......... .. They created the NHS. :-| Now they're trying to stop it getting cash? 8-) ........... So are YOU going to side with Labour and say the NHS shouldn't get the money??? :D ......... (lol) (lol) (lol) ............ Let's look at what Labour are actually saying (and I note a lot of the new red wall Tory MPs who abstained on the vote) that we tax those more that can afford it. What is your objection to taxing millionaires? Will working millionaires not pay the tax? ;-) .......... The only millionaire I know who is objecting to it is YOU >:-) ......... Typical Nasty Greedy Lefty *-) ......... I'm quite happy paying more tax always have been. What is your objection to Johnson making me pay more tax? So why are you complaining? :-| ........ BTW.......When do you reckon you'd have paid back the 4.1 million you got? ;-) ....... I paid back the 1500 quid I got years ago >:-) ......... What part of the 10% increase in tax do you not understand? All of it by the sound of it. And it's stupidity like yours that Johnson depends on. So you think its fair that the feckless should get everything including carehomes for free? :-| ......... But then again you do have a history of freeloading off the tax payer yourself dont you >:-) ....... Thank you for proving to everyone that you don't understand any of the proposals. How do you think a 10% increase in tax for the low paid to allow older people to have care is rewarding fecklessness? Only a Lefty could make £130 = 10% of £20,000 *-) ......... It's no wonder when you managed to screw the taxpayer for 82k per job 25 years ago :-| ......... If National Insurance is rising from 12% to 13.25% it is a risie by 1.25 percentage points. Which in percentage terms is rising by just over 10%. It is a 10% tax hike. So what you mean't to say was a 10% hike in NI.......Which in real world terms equals a months worth of Big Macs for the feckless >:-) ............ I said a 10% increase in tax, are you that thick that you don't understand that NI is a tax? "What is National Insurance? National Insurance is a tax on earnings and self-employed profits. Your National Insurance contributions are paid into a fund, from which some state benefits are paid. This includes the state pension, statutory sick pay or maternity leave, or entitlement to additional unemployment benefits." Read more: https://www.which.co.uk/money/tax/national-insurance/what-is-national-insurance-a01s79v8uxrp - Which? NI is a fraction of the tax that people pay *-) .......... I doubt anyone will notice it......especially the working poor as they have their income topped up with tax credits ;-) ....... BTW have you repaid that 4.1 million you sponged off the British taxpayer 25 years ago......yet? :D ........ Or are you still expecting your 50 employee's to pick up the tab? >:-) ....... Just askin (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... My point was that Ni is a tax, a tax that has been increased by more than 10%. Good that you are finally admitting that we have a working poor after ten years of Tory government. Those working poor are getting their biggest pay rise in history thanks to Brexit and the Tory government >:-) .......... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-57656327 https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-wages-hospitality-retail-pandemic-b1890591.html You didn't read your own links again did you? "Recent headlines about how average salaries in hospitality and retail have risen pose some interesting questions. On Twitter I was asked: “How do economists reconcile with the idea EU immigration was not impacting wages? Timing? Sector? Nothing to do with Brexit? Or were the models wrong?” These are fair questions, in light of widespread reports of labour shortages resulting from the exodus of EU-origin workers during the pandemic. For the last 15 years – at least since the accession of central and Eastern European countries to the EU in 2004 – economic research has consistently shown that migration had no significant impacts on the employment prospects of UK-born workers; and that wage impacts, while observable, are relatively small. The most well-publicised estimate suggests that migration might have depressed wages for lower-skilled service sector workers by perhaps 1 per cent over a period of almost a decade. As a consequence, most economists argued that the ending of free movement after Brexit would be unlikely to do much to boost wages for low-paid British workers. Are we now being proved wrong? Were our earlier estimates (not really “models”, since little sophisticated analysis or theory was involved – it was just what the data said) incorrect, or is it simply that circumstances are very different? As you’d expect from an academic, my short answer is “more research is needed”. But that doesn’t mean that there aren’t some useful things we can say now. First, take the headlines with a very large pinch of salt, and fact-free politically motivated commentary with an even larger one. Remember we’ve been here before. In 2017 and 2018, there were widespread reports that a post-Brexit reduction in EU migration was leading to staff shortages and wage increases, supposedly of 10 per cent or more in the hospitality sector. The usual suspects seized on this: “This is precisely why a lot of people voted for Brexit,” said Fraser Nelson. This is “more evidence that free movement resulted in lower wages”, claimed Paul Embery. Except that’s not what the actual hard data showed; in fact wages in the sectors most dependent on relatively low-paid service workers, particularly those from the EU, rose about 2.5 per cent a year in 2017 and 2018 – mediocre by historical standards (and even those rises were in large part driven not by changes in migration but by rises in the national minimum wage). Overall, Brexit reduced, rather than increased, real wage growth between the referendum and the pandemic, much as I and other economists predicted. So rather than taking excitable press releases as fact (still less Twitter commentary driven more by ideology than analysis), we’ll need to wait for official data to find out what’s happening to wages (Shutterstock) Recent headlines about how average salaries in hospitality and retail have risen pose some interesting questions. On Twitter I was asked: “How do economists reconcile with the idea EU immigration was not impacting wages? Timing? Sector? Nothing to do with Brexit? Or were the models wrong?” These are fair questions, in light of widespread reports of labour shortages resulting from the exodus of EU-origin workers during the pandemic. For the last 15 years – at least since the accession of central and Eastern European countries to the EU in 2004 – economic research has consistently shown that migration had no significant impacts on the employment prospects of UK-born workers; and that wage impacts, while observable, are relatively small. The most well-publicised estimate suggests that migration might have depressed wages for lower-skilled service sector workers by perhaps 1 per cent over a period of almost a decade. As a consequence, most economists argued that the ending of free movement after Brexit would be unlikely to do much to boost wages for low-paid British workers. Are we now being proved wrong? Were our earlier estimates (not really “models”, since little sophisticated analysis or theory was involved – it was just what the data said) incorrect, or is it simply that circumstances are very different? As you’d expect from an academic, my short answer is “more research is needed”. But that doesn’t mean that there aren’t some useful things we can say now. First, take the headlines with a very large pinch of salt, and fact-free politically motivated commentary with an even larger one. Remember we’ve been here before. In 2017 and 2018, there were widespread reports that a post-Brexit reduction in EU migration was leading to staff shortages and wage increases, supposedly of 10 per cent or more in the hospitality sector. The usual suspects seized on this: “This is precisely why a lot of people voted for Brexit,” said Fraser Nelson. This is “more evidence that free movement resulted in lower wages”, claimed Paul Embery. Except that’s not what the actual hard data showed; in fact wages in the sectors most dependent on relatively low-paid service workers, particularly those from the EU, rose about 2.5 per cent a year in 2017 and 2018 – mediocre by historical standards (and even those rises were in large part driven not by changes in migration but by rises in the national minimum wage). Overall, Brexit reduced, rather than increased, real wage growth between the referendum and the pandemic, much as I and other economists predicted. So rather than taking excitable press releases as fact (still less Twitter commentary driven more by ideology than analysis), we’ll need to wait for official data to find out what’s happening to wages. So far – while the data is hard to interpret, given the swings driven by the pandemic and the furlough scheme – there’s no sign of any wage explosion in the relevant sectors, with pay in wholesale/retail and restaurants/hotels up less than 4 per cent in May of this year, compared to two years earlier. Until we have at least a few months more data that tells us what actually happened after most restrictions were lifted, we should be very cautious indeed about making general claims about the impact – or not – of changes to migration patterns." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-13 8:17 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-12 9:25 AM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-11 9:42 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-11 9:21 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-11 9:09 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-11 7:26 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-10 2:55 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-10 10:29 AM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-10 8:29 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-10 7:54 AM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-09 9:12 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 8:14 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-09 8:09 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 7:00 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-09 10:24 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 9:35 AM malc d - 2021-09-09 9:19 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 8:41 AM What did caring Labour do? >:-) ......... .. They created the NHS. :-| Now they're trying to stop it getting cash? 8-) ........... So are YOU going to side with Labour and say the NHS shouldn't get the money??? :D ......... (lol) (lol) (lol) ............ Let's look at what Labour are actually saying (and I note a lot of the new red wall Tory MPs who abstained on the vote) that we tax those more that can afford it. What is your objection to taxing millionaires? Will working millionaires not pay the tax? ;-) .......... The only millionaire I know who is objecting to it is YOU >:-) ......... Typical Nasty Greedy Lefty *-) ......... I'm quite happy paying more tax always have been. What is your objection to Johnson making me pay more tax? So why are you complaining? :-| ........ BTW.......When do you reckon you'd have paid back the 4.1 million you got? ;-) ....... I paid back the 1500 quid I got years ago >:-) ......... What part of the 10% increase in tax do you not understand? All of it by the sound of it. And it's stupidity like yours that Johnson depends on. So you think its fair that the feckless should get everything including carehomes for free? :-| ......... But then again you do have a history of freeloading off the tax payer yourself dont you >:-) ....... Thank you for proving to everyone that you don't understand any of the proposals. How do you think a 10% increase in tax for the low paid to allow older people to have care is rewarding fecklessness? Only a Lefty could make £130 = 10% of £20,000 *-) ......... It's no wonder when you managed to screw the taxpayer for 82k per job 25 years ago :-| ......... If National Insurance is rising from 12% to 13.25% it is a risie by 1.25 percentage points. Which in percentage terms is rising by just over 10%. It is a 10% tax hike. So what you mean't to say was a 10% hike in NI.......Which in real world terms equals a months worth of Big Macs for the feckless >:-) ............ I said a 10% increase in tax, are you that thick that you don't understand that NI is a tax? "What is National Insurance? National Insurance is a tax on earnings and self-employed profits. Your National Insurance contributions are paid into a fund, from which some state benefits are paid. This includes the state pension, statutory sick pay or maternity leave, or entitlement to additional unemployment benefits." Read more: https://www.which.co.uk/money/tax/national-insurance/what-is-national-insurance-a01s79v8uxrp - Which? NI is a fraction of the tax that people pay *-) .......... I doubt anyone will notice it......especially the working poor as they have their income topped up with tax credits ;-) ....... BTW have you repaid that 4.1 million you sponged off the British taxpayer 25 years ago......yet? :D ........ Or are you still expecting your 50 employee's to pick up the tab? >:-) ....... Just askin (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... My point was that Ni is a tax, a tax that has been increased by more than 10%. Good that you are finally admitting that we have a working poor after ten years of Tory government. Those working poor are getting their biggest pay rise in history thanks to Brexit and the Tory government >:-) .......... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-57656327 https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-wages-hospitality-retail-pandemic-b1890591.html You didn't read your own links again did you? "Recent headlines about how average salaries in hospitality and retail have risen pose some interesting questions. On Twitter I was asked: “How do economists reconcile with the idea EU immigration was not impacting wages? Timing? Sector? Nothing to do with Brexit? Or were the models wrong?” These are fair questions, in light of widespread reports of labour shortages resulting from the exodus of EU-origin workers during the pandemic. For the last 15 years – at least since the accession of central and Eastern European countries to the EU in 2004 – economic research has consistently shown that migration had no significant impacts on the employment prospects of UK-born workers; and that wage impacts, while observable, are relatively small. The most well-publicised estimate suggests that migration might have depressed wages for lower-skilled service sector workers by perhaps 1 per cent over a period of almost a decade. As a consequence, most economists argued that the ending of free movement after Brexit would be unlikely to do much to boost wages for low-paid British workers. Are we now being proved wrong? Were our earlier estimates (not really “models”, since little sophisticated analysis or theory was involved – it was just what the data said) incorrect, or is it simply that circumstances are very different? As you’d expect from an academic, my short answer is “more research is needed”. But that doesn’t mean that there aren’t some useful things we can say now. First, take the headlines with a very large pinch of salt, and fact-free politically motivated commentary with an even larger one. Remember we’ve been here before. In 2017 and 2018, there were widespread reports that a post-Brexit reduction in EU migration was leading to staff shortages and wage increases, supposedly of 10 per cent or more in the hospitality sector. The usual suspects seized on this: “This is precisely why a lot of people voted for Brexit,” said Fraser Nelson. This is “more evidence that free movement resulted in lower wages”, claimed Paul Embery. Except that’s not what the actual hard data showed; in fact wages in the sectors most dependent on relatively low-paid service workers, particularly those from the EU, rose about 2.5 per cent a year in 2017 and 2018 – mediocre by historical standards (and even those rises were in large part driven not by changes in migration but by rises in the national minimum wage). Overall, Brexit reduced, rather than increased, real wage growth between the referendum and the pandemic, much as I and other economists predicted. So rather than taking excitable press releases as fact (still less Twitter commentary driven more by ideology than analysis), we’ll need to wait for official data to find out what’s happening to wages (Shutterstock) Recent headlines about how average salaries in hospitality and retail have risen pose some interesting questions. On Twitter I was asked: “How do economists reconcile with the idea EU immigration was not impacting wages? Timing? Sector? Nothing to do with Brexit? Or were the models wrong?” These are fair questions, in light of widespread reports of labour shortages resulting from the exodus of EU-origin workers during the pandemic. For the last 15 years – at least since the accession of central and Eastern European countries to the EU in 2004 – economic research has consistently shown that migration had no significant impacts on the employment prospects of UK-born workers; and that wage impacts, while observable, are relatively small. The most well-publicised estimate suggests that migration might have depressed wages for lower-skilled service sector workers by perhaps 1 per cent over a period of almost a decade. As a consequence, most economists argued that the ending of free movement after Brexit would be unlikely to do much to boost wages for low-paid British workers. Are we now being proved wrong? Were our earlier estimates (not really “models”, since little sophisticated analysis or theory was involved – it was just what the data said) incorrect, or is it simply that circumstances are very different? As you’d expect from an academic, my short answer is “more research is needed”. But that doesn’t mean that there aren’t some useful things we can say now. First, take the headlines with a very large pinch of salt, and fact-free politically motivated commentary with an even larger one. Remember we’ve been here before. In 2017 and 2018, there were widespread reports that a post-Brexit reduction in EU migration was leading to staff shortages and wage increases, supposedly of 10 per cent or more in the hospitality sector. The usual suspects seized on this: “This is precisely why a lot of people voted for Brexit,” said Fraser Nelson. This is “more evidence that free movement resulted in lower wages”, claimed Paul Embery. Except that’s not what the actual hard data showed; in fact wages in the sectors most dependent on relatively low-paid service workers, particularly those from the EU, rose about 2.5 per cent a year in 2017 and 2018 – mediocre by historical standards (and even those rises were in large part driven not by changes in migration but by rises in the national minimum wage). Overall, Brexit reduced, rather than increased, real wage growth between the referendum and the pandemic, much as I and other economists predicted. So rather than taking excitable press releases as fact (still less Twitter commentary driven more by ideology than analysis), we’ll need to wait for official data to find out what’s happening to wages. So far – while the data is hard to interpret, given the swings driven by the pandemic and the furlough scheme – there’s no sign of any wage explosion in the relevant sectors, with pay in wholesale/retail and restaurants/hotels up less than 4 per cent in May of this year, compared to two years earlier. Until we have at least a few months more data that tells us what actually happened after most restrictions were lifted, we should be very cautious indeed about making general claims about the impact – or not – of changes to migration patterns." Actually I did read it ;-) ......... It's another perfect example of a LOSER making excuses for getting it wrong >:-) ....... Are you going to deny lorry drivers have seen a wage explosion??? (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-09-13 9:57 AM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-13 8:17 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-12 9:25 AM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-11 9:42 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-11 9:21 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-11 9:09 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-11 7:26 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-10 2:55 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-10 10:29 AM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-10 8:29 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-10 7:54 AM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-09 9:12 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 8:14 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-09 8:09 PM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 7:00 PM CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-09 10:24 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 9:35 AM malc d - 2021-09-09 9:19 AM pelmetman - 2021-09-09 8:41 AM What did caring Labour do? >:-) ......... .. They created the NHS. :-| Now they're trying to stop it getting cash? 8-) ........... So are YOU going to side with Labour and say the NHS shouldn't get the money??? :D ......... (lol) (lol) (lol) ............ Let's look at what Labour are actually saying (and I note a lot of the new red wall Tory MPs who abstained on the vote) that we tax those more that can afford it. What is your objection to taxing millionaires? Will working millionaires not pay the tax? ;-) .......... The only millionaire I know who is objecting to it is YOU >:-) ......... Typical Nasty Greedy Lefty *-) ......... I'm quite happy paying more tax always have been. What is your objection to Johnson making me pay more tax? So why are you complaining? :-| ........ BTW.......When do you reckon you'd have paid back the 4.1 million you got? ;-) ....... I paid back the 1500 quid I got years ago >:-) ......... What part of the 10% increase in tax do you not understand? All of it by the sound of it. And it's stupidity like yours that Johnson depends on. So you think its fair that the feckless should get everything including carehomes for free? :-| ......... But then again you do have a history of freeloading off the tax payer yourself dont you >:-) ....... Thank you for proving to everyone that you don't understand any of the proposals. How do you think a 10% increase in tax for the low paid to allow older people to have care is rewarding fecklessness? Only a Lefty could make £130 = 10% of £20,000 *-) ......... It's no wonder when you managed to screw the taxpayer for 82k per job 25 years ago :-| ......... If National Insurance is rising from 12% to 13.25% it is a risie by 1.25 percentage points. Which in percentage terms is rising by just over 10%. It is a 10% tax hike. So what you mean't to say was a 10% hike in NI.......Which in real world terms equals a months worth of Big Macs for the feckless >:-) ............ I said a 10% increase in tax, are you that thick that you don't understand that NI is a tax? "What is National Insurance? National Insurance is a tax on earnings and self-employed profits. Your National Insurance contributions are paid into a fund, from which some state benefits are paid. This includes the state pension, statutory sick pay or maternity leave, or entitlement to additional unemployment benefits." Read more: https://www.which.co.uk/money/tax/national-insurance/what-is-national-insurance-a01s79v8uxrp - Which? NI is a fraction of the tax that people pay *-) .......... I doubt anyone will notice it......especially the working poor as they have their income topped up with tax credits ;-) ....... BTW have you repaid that 4.1 million you sponged off the British taxpayer 25 years ago......yet? :D ........ Or are you still expecting your 50 employee's to pick up the tab? >:-) ....... Just askin (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... My point was that Ni is a tax, a tax that has been increased by more than 10%. Good that you are finally admitting that we have a working poor after ten years of Tory government. Those working poor are getting their biggest pay rise in history thanks to Brexit and the Tory government >:-) .......... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-57656327 https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-wages-hospitality-retail-pandemic-b1890591.html You didn't read your own links again did you? "Recent headlines about how average salaries in hospitality and retail have risen pose some interesting questions. On Twitter I was asked: “How do economists reconcile with the idea EU immigration was not impacting wages? Timing? Sector? Nothing to do with Brexit? Or were the models wrong?” These are fair questions, in light of widespread reports of labour shortages resulting from the exodus of EU-origin workers during the pandemic. For the last 15 years – at least since the accession of central and Eastern European countries to the EU in 2004 – economic research has consistently shown that migration had no significant impacts on the employment prospects of UK-born workers; and that wage impacts, while observable, are relatively small. The most well-publicised estimate suggests that migration might have depressed wages for lower-skilled service sector workers by perhaps 1 per cent over a period of almost a decade. As a consequence, most economists argued that the ending of free movement after Brexit would be unlikely to do much to boost wages for low-paid British workers. Are we now being proved wrong? Were our earlier estimates (not really “models”, since little sophisticated analysis or theory was involved – it was just what the data said) incorrect, or is it simply that circumstances are very different? As you’d expect from an academic, my short answer is “more research is needed”. But that doesn’t mean that there aren’t some useful things we can say now. First, take the headlines with a very large pinch of salt, and fact-free politically motivated commentary with an even larger one. Remember we’ve been here before. In 2017 and 2018, there were widespread reports that a post-Brexit reduction in EU migration was leading to staff shortages and wage increases, supposedly of 10 per cent or more in the hospitality sector. The usual suspects seized on this: “This is precisely why a lot of people voted for Brexit,” said Fraser Nelson. This is “more evidence that free movement resulted in lower wages”, claimed Paul Embery. Except that’s not what the actual hard data showed; in fact wages in the sectors most dependent on relatively low-paid service workers, particularly those from the EU, rose about 2.5 per cent a year in 2017 and 2018 – mediocre by historical standards (and even those rises were in large part driven not by changes in migration but by rises in the national minimum wage). Overall, Brexit reduced, rather than increased, real wage growth between the referendum and the pandemic, much as I and other economists predicted. So rather than taking excitable press releases as fact (still less Twitter commentary driven more by ideology than analysis), we’ll need to wait for official data to find out what’s happening to wages (Shutterstock) Recent headlines about how average salaries in hospitality and retail have risen pose some interesting questions. On Twitter I was asked: “How do economists reconcile with the idea EU immigration was not impacting wages? Timing? Sector? Nothing to do with Brexit? Or were the models wrong?” These are fair questions, in light of widespread reports of labour shortages resulting from the exodus of EU-origin workers during the pandemic. For the last 15 years – at least since the accession of central and Eastern European countries to the EU in 2004 – economic research has consistently shown that migration had no significant impacts on the employment prospects of UK-born workers; and that wage impacts, while observable, are relatively small. The most well-publicised estimate suggests that migration might have depressed wages for lower-skilled service sector workers by perhaps 1 per cent over a period of almost a decade. As a consequence, most economists argued that the ending of free movement after Brexit would be unlikely to do much to boost wages for low-paid British workers. Are we now being proved wrong? Were our earlier estimates (not really “models”, since little sophisticated analysis or theory was involved – it was just what the data said) incorrect, or is it simply that circumstances are very different? As you’d expect from an academic, my short answer is “more research is needed”. But that doesn’t mean that there aren’t some useful things we can say now. First, take the headlines with a very large pinch of salt, and fact-free politically motivated commentary with an even larger one. Remember we’ve been here before. In 2017 and 2018, there were widespread reports that a post-Brexit reduction in EU migration was leading to staff shortages and wage increases, supposedly of 10 per cent or more in the hospitality sector. The usual suspects seized on this: “This is precisely why a lot of people voted for Brexit,” said Fraser Nelson. This is “more evidence that free movement resulted in lower wages”, claimed Paul Embery. Except that’s not what the actual hard data showed; in fact wages in the sectors most dependent on relatively low-paid service workers, particularly those from the EU, rose about 2.5 per cent a year in 2017 and 2018 – mediocre by historical standards (and even those rises were in large part driven not by changes in migration but by rises in the national minimum wage). Overall, Brexit reduced, rather than increased, real wage growth between the referendum and the pandemic, much as I and other economists predicted. So rather than taking excitable press releases as fact (still less Twitter commentary driven more by ideology than analysis), we’ll need to wait for official data to find out what’s happening to wages. So far – while the data is hard to interpret, given the swings driven by the pandemic and the furlough scheme – there’s no sign of any wage explosion in the relevant sectors, with pay in wholesale/retail and restaurants/hotels up less than 4 per cent in May of this year, compared to two years earlier. Until we have at least a few months more data that tells us what actually happened after most restrictions were lifted, we should be very cautious indeed about making general claims about the impact – or not – of changes to migration patterns." Actually I did read it ;-) ......... It's another perfect example of a LOSER making excuses for getting it wrong >:-) ....... Are you going to deny lorry drivers have seen a wage explosion??? (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... What proportion of the working population are lorry drivers ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-09-13 9:57 AM Actually I did read it ;-) ......... It's another perfect example of a LOSER making excuses for getting it wrong >:-) ....... No you didn't and your one liner 'tweet like' response showed that. Are you going to deny lorry drivers have seen a wage explosion??? (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... Don't be such a silly drama queen. Just because you see a headline mentioning "£50k a year for truck drivers" doesn't mean all will get that rate of pay and the reality is very few ever will. Whatever they earn YOU will pay and as everything is delivered by road, prices of everything will go up. Another example of how you shot yourself in the foot and gave consumers price increases. Hanson truck drivers who deliver cement for the building industry have just voted for strike action after rejecting a 2.5% rise as it would amount to a pay cut in real terms due to inflation running at 3.9%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted September 15, 2021 Share Posted September 15, 2021 Looks like those wage increases welcomed by Pelmethead are feeding through with inflation jumping to 3.2% So the working poor are being hit by a increase in tax, a cut in universal credit and higher prices in the shops. More winning that even the Torygraph is calling out. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/09/14/workers-face-triple-whammy-tax-hikes-inflation-benefit-cuts/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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