dawki Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 I’d say wheel bearing by the what you have told us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Wilkes Posted October 29, 2021 Author Share Posted October 29, 2021 Hi all, just an update on the ongoing saga of the van. The garage have now said that its the nearside suspension that needs replacing. I hope that this is the end to it once its done next Wednesday as we can't afford anymore after this if it isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 Mark Wilkes - 2021-10-29 12:16 AM The garage have now said that its the nearside suspension that needs replacing. Sorry but that is a real cop out! "nearside suspension" could mean any of dozens of components and I get the feeling they really do not know what they are talking about or, more likely, are trying to baffle you with BS!!! I strongly suggest you get a second opinion before letting these amateurs loose on your van again! Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 I agree with Keith. I note that there’s a Fiat Professional agency not far from Bolton http://fiatprofessional.mopar.eu/uk-en/DealerPages/3112-77-0067053-000.aspx and they ought to be able to accurately diagnose the cause of this type of fault (even though Mark's vehicle is a Citroen Relay) and should have the equipment to replace wheel bearings if that’s where the problem lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 Brian Kirby - 2021-10-26 6:51 PM .. assume that the "failed" parts will have already been disposed of, so will not be available for inspection to verify that they actually justified replacement? I wonder about the value of looking at the 'failed parts anyway. My first job in a garage was repairing punctures - back in the days when car tyres had inner tubes. Some of the customers might moan about the price of a new inner tube when a cheaper patch might have done the job. So the boss told me to make sure there was a hole in the inner tube big enough to avoid any argument ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 Mark Wilkes - 2021-10-26 6:57 AM Hi John52, they say the nearside(where the noise is) wheel bearing is ok but the offside one will need changing in time ? ? ? Very difficult to know where the noise is coming from when driving it. Only way I found it was by spinning each wheel with an angle grinder disc revolving against the tyre tread Safety inspector would probably have had a fit :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddy Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 Have you tried putting the spare on and trying it , if only to confirm that the problem is not with the wheel / tyre that is fitted at the moment.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
granddad Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 if it metal to metal as you traveling along a strait rd ill still think bearing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teflon2 Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 Mark Wilkes - 2021-10-26 6:57 AM Hi John52, they say the nearside(where the noise is) wheel bearing is ok but the offside one will need changing in time ? ? ? I wonder why they say that?. There are only two conditions for wheel bearings , Sound or need replacing. On front wheel drive front wheel bearings are sealed for life if the lube has leaked out the bearing will seize or collapse. I've had a front wheel bearing collapse just as I entered a slip road and it's a change of underwear moment. I would get a second opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 I too have seen what a collapsed front wheel bearing can do so for me too it is not something to postpone. Either sell the van and let someone else worry about it or replace BOTH front wheel bearings asap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 This vehicle was taken to a garage to resolve abnormal noise from the front n/s. So far the garage has replaced, at Mark's expense, the n/s drive shaft, the n/s top suspension mount twice, has diagnosed the n/s front wheel bearing as OK but pronounced the o/s front wheel bearing as needing replacement sometime (they all do - some time!) and now says the front nearside suspension (without confirming which parts of that assembly they consider are at fault) needs replacing. There is an unkind saying about doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different result! :-) I really think that at this point Mark should engage the RAC's legal services (or any other he may have via his house, vehicle, or contents, insurances) with a view to recovering his costs for all the unnecessary work this garage has already carried out, for which he will need a competent engineer's report on the fault (for which he will have to pay, the cost of which can be recovered as part of his costs in his case against the garage - assuming the engineer is able to establish the true cause of the noise). That is a risk. But so is going to another garage, because their verdict on the fault will still have to be proved by paying for the further work involved. So is doing nothing. But, at least the risk of engaging the RAC's legal and engineering services offers the prospect of being able to recover his costs to date, which, IMO, neither of his other options offer. But going back to the present garage to have the front n/s suspension replaced can only add to his costs and, if the noise then disappears it will only confirm to the garage that their final diagnosis was right, with the added assurances that all the other work was necessary as all the components removed (and presumably now destroyed) had showed signs of wear. And, if it doesn't, I assume they'll start on the o/s!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Wilkes Posted November 4, 2021 Author Share Posted November 4, 2021 The story goes on . . . the van went back to the garage on wednesday and had the n/s shocker replaced. This still hasnt fixed the problem. What legal choices do I now have as we are now over £500 out of pocket and still have the problem. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawki Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 Have you asked the garage for a refund at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Wilkes Posted November 4, 2021 Author Share Posted November 4, 2021 Hi, we have not asked them yet but they have been told the noise is still there and they said the boss would ring but we are still waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 Mark Wilkes - 2021-11-04 9:32 AM The story goes on . . . the van went back to the garage on wednesday and had the n/s shocker replaced. This still hasnt fixed the problem. What legal choices do I now have as we are now over £500 out of pocket and still have the problem. Thank you. Mark, as above, I think you need expert advice and, as you've said you are an RAC member, I think your best course will be to talk to the RAC legal department which, at least used to, advise members on motor trade disputes, to see what they advise. My apologies if they've dropped that service: I haven't had direct RAC membership for years. But, it'll cost you nothing to ask. :-) To get the best advice you'll need to provide, as briefly and clearly as possible, a summary of the events and the charges made at each turn. It may be wise to prepare this before contacting them, so that you can refer to it during your conversation. You could also find out at the same time how much an RAC engineers report might cost you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Wilkes Posted November 5, 2021 Author Share Posted November 5, 2021 Hi Brian we contacted the RAC and it's a 100 pounds to get a report. We called citizens advice and they said to send them a letter quoting 2015 consumer rights. We sent them the letter today and will see what they say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikefitz Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 Hi Mark, I am a bit late to the party, however this is my advice. It seems your repair garage is clueless and are just throwing parts at the problem without a careful diagnosis. Do not return to this garage for further work, you could ask for the removed parts to be returned to you, but you may find they have been 'put in the skip'. You may be able to recover some of the cost once you have had the issue resolved by a different garage if they can show the repairs were unnecessary. Find a different garage that work on commercial vehicles and also carry out MOT tests, explain what has been done and ask for their opinion and estimate for the repair. Perhaps even ask for a MOT test, this may show up the issue. From your reports of work carried out it sounds very much that the garage is either dishonest or totally useless. You were told, 'greased all joints', well there are no joints that can be greased on the front suspension. All joints are sealed or are rubber bushed. To carry out the work described, CV joint, top mount, shock absorber, each results in a very similar process that involves taking apart the front suspension. On the first occasion, for the CV joint repair, any issues with the shock absorber and top mount would have been apparent to a competent mechanic. Whenever work is carries out on the front suspension good practice is to replace parts of both sides. At 14 years old both shock absorbers and top mounts should have been replaced on both sides.. Although it sounds as if it may be a wheel bearing, this is just a guess. It may be a simple problem of parts rubbing, that has been suggested, or a more serious fault in the hub bearing, drive shaft or gearbox. One area that has not been discussed is the roll bar bushing and drop links. Do not assume that the 'repairs' so far have actually been carried out, or implemented correctly To summarise, go to a different garage for advice. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Wilkes Posted November 7, 2021 Author Share Posted November 7, 2021 Hi Mike, the garage said that they have checked the wheel bearing and it is OK. We paid £228 to replace the shocker and I asked about doing both sides and was told that the other side is OK. We are waiting to see what happens when they get the letter and going from there. We have spent over £600 so far and due to our circumstances, my wife is disabled and I am her full time carer, then money is tight at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 mikefitz - 2021-11-06 8:16 PM You were told, 'greased all joints', Thats not what he said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikefitz Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 OK, the OP stated, "they said they have checked it all and greased up the joints " There is nothing to grease on the front suspension, all joints/bearings are sealed. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 Mark Wilkes - 2021-11-05 6:58 PM Hi Brian we contacted the RAC and it's a 100 pounds to get a report. We called citizens advice and they said to send them a letter quoting 2015 consumer rights. We sent them the letter today and will see what they say. It will do no harm, though I doubt they'll be pleased to see you again! :-) My reservation about going to a different garage as against an RAC engineer is that you will in any case probably have to pay for the labour to investigate and put their findings in writing, and they will be a less convincing witness on your behalf as the obvious defence from your present garage would be that they have a commercial incentive (i.e. the business) for finding fault, and that will have influenced their judgement. I'm also surprised that your present garage hasn't checked that a front brake caliper hasn't seized, or that a bit of grit hasn't got between disc and pad, as suggested above. In writing, have you made clear that each task undertaken by the garage was intended to cure an undiagnosed noise from the front nearside wheel (the basis of your contract with them), and that they diagnosed, in each case, the various remedies - for which you then paid and which did not cure the fault? If not, I would suggest, depending on their reply, you do so as that is critical, IMO, to establishing the underlying reason for your complaint. Next, do you have, either through your RAC membership, or through any insurance policies you have (car, van, home, contents etc.) any which give you legal cover, especially cover that extends to representation, if necessary, in court? If unsure, do check their wording, as many policies these days do, and you may eventually find this becomes your best means to recover your costs. There is no risk to finding out, and you will then be able to ask, if unclear, how far the cover extends. The garage may be the nicest people in the world, but they seem to lack the competence to diagnose and cure your problem, which is what you've been paying them to do. In principle, that failure should entitle you to get your money back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 Any letter to the garage should also state that you seek reimbursement of all costs, not only for their work, associated with this debacle. That includes RAC or any other fees for reports or inspection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Wilkes Posted November 8, 2021 Author Share Posted November 8, 2021 The letter has been sent and I am waiting for their response. Hopefully they will be reasonable and give us our money back but I don't think they will. The agreement was that they would solve the noise and this has not been done.I can see it ending up with us getting the RAC out but at £100 its a big cost but I see the need to get them to do a report. Thank you all for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 By the way, Mark, and just out of curiosity, is the garage a Citroen commercial vehicles dealership/workshop, or an independent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Wilkes Posted November 9, 2021 Author Share Posted November 9, 2021 Hi Brian its just a local garage.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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