Hymer Warranty - not happy!!

[Muswell]

I'm not saying it applies in this case, but a problem with naming and shaming is that you only get one side of the story.

[crocs]

Derek Uzzell - 2021-12-16 8:59 AM

 

The Warners terms of website acceptable use can be read here

 

http://www.warnersgroup.co.uk/about-warners-group/terms-conditions/

 

These terms have been virtually unchanged since the O&AL forums were born in 2006.

 

Over the years I've argued with the Management that the Terms won't be read by O&AL participants and that the Terms' wording is far too 'legal'. I've suggested that simpler, more comprehensible, Terms that are readily visible to O&AL forum participants should be provided if these forums are to be properly moderated.

 

The Practical Caravan (PC) forums are the nearest thing to the O&AL forums conceptually (ie. they relate to commercial leisure magazines and are free to join and use). Their 'Official Community Rules" can be viewed here

 

https://forums.practicalcaravan.com/threads/practical-caravan-official-community-rules.61826/

 

and the 3rd 'rule' relates to naming/shaming.

 

I'm not going to claim that the PC Rules are perfect, but I believe they are a good deal better that the Warners Terms. (It will be noticed that PC moderators have much sharper teeth than O&AL moderators, which may or may not be a good thing!!)

 

There is a 'secret' O&AL forum named "Admin Quarantine" that is only visible to moderators/administrators. This currently contains about 700 threads that have been moved there for various reasons (spamming, blatant advertising, naming/shaming, abusive forum in-fighting, etc.) The Admin Quarantine forum is a Limbo where a thread can be put by a forum moderator awaiting a final decision from a forum administrator as to whether the thread might be moved back to the forum it came from (which rarely happens). For what it's worth, the most recent thread in Admin Quarantine was a 2019 discussion about lost motorhome keys that was resurrected a couple of months ago for advertising purposes. (Now I've noticed it, I'll edit that thread and return it to Motorhome Matters.)

 

What this really comes down to is whether the O&AL forum administrators (who are Warners staff members) are prepared to trust the volunteer moderators (I believe there are 4 forum members with moderator privileges, but I think only Keithl and I actually moderate) with wide-ranging powers that include personal interpretation of the Warners Terms, or for the administrators to do all the forum moderation themselves.

 

Keith advised Paul earlier

 

"Please do not name the dealer on this forum as it is against Warners T&C and will almost certainly lead to either moderation or removal of the entire thread."

 

and I would have advised similarly.

 

You might believe that Keith and my interpretation of the O&AL Terms regarding naming/shaming is incorrect, and that would be fine by me - but we are having to do the interpretation. You could ask Daniel Attwood to give you moderator powers (the more moderators, the merrier!) and then you could put your case about naming/shaming to the Warners staff.

 

You misunderstand me, Derek. I'm not saying that your interpretation of the Warner Ts&Cs is incorrect. I am asking what Clause of the Ts&Cs (I have read them - I would never comment without researching in advance!) that is being relied upon in order to censor in the manner suggested.

 

Quite separately, I'm saying that such potential for censorship of naming dealers (good or bad) is problematic for all of the reasons that I've rehearsed previously. That is my opinion and I have seen nothing yet that would alter it.

 

And finally, I actually agree with Keith's advice, just not the reason for it. I have always found it unproductive and bad practice to 'name and shame' publicly unless and until you have no further avenue for recourse and your objective becomes revenge rather than resolution.

[Derek Uzzell]

 

Keithl just issued a caveat about naming/shaming and the possibility that this might result in 'moderation'.

 

I 'wing it' based on what has happened in the past and what has been said in a posting.

 

(Perhaps we can let discussion on O&AL forum naming/shaming stop on this particular thread. If you'd like to raise the matter on a new thread, the forum administrator might be prepared to comment.)

 

[Brian Kirby]

Derek Uzzell - 2021-12-16 12:13 PM

Perhaps we can let discussion on O&AL forum naming/shaming stop on this particular thread. If you'd like to raise the matter on a new thread, the forum administrator might be prepared to comment.

Seconded! This is now well off topic, and is not contributing anything of significance to Paul's original post regarding a recalcitrant dealer and the Hymer warranty.

[crocs]

Derek Uzzell - 2021-12-16 12:13 PM

 

 

Keithl just issued a caveat about naming/shaming and the possibility that this might result in 'moderation'.

 

I 'wing it' based on what has happened in the past and what has been said in a posting.

 

(Perhaps we can let discussion on O&AL forum naming/shaming stop on this particular thread. If you'd like to raise the matter on a new thread, the forum administrator might be prepared to comment.)

 

Good idea. It's now pretty off-topic.

[Hans]

Right. Abuse of power. Vote for new ones by Election on the site.

[Paul F]

:-D :-D :-D :-D

 

Bringing it right back on topic here folks.

 

After nearly nine weeks and one final very strongly worded email, I have eventually today received written confirmation from the After Sales Director that ALL works, including a replacement genuine Hymer windscreen will be supplied and fitted free of charge at my convenience. They have even offered to collect the MH from my house (two hours drive from the dealership) and bring it back when the work is done.

 

I won't be celebrating too much until the work is completed, which will be in the new year due to parts availability and Xmas - but the main thing is I have the written acceptance and agreement to to do the work FOC - Hallelujah!!

 

Phew - that was a battle!

[Keithl]

Good result there Paul and now just keeping fingers crossed that it all goes to plan for you.

 

Keith.

[Ocsid]

Great, I am very pleased for you, and very pleased we have people like you, as you are just what we all need to pull this "industry" into line, accepting their legal obligations.

 

Hope things now go hitch free.

[crocs]

Result! Well done - persistence pays off.

[Brian Kirby]

Paul F - 2021-12-16 6:15 PM

:-D :-D :-D :-D

Bringing it right back on topic here folks.

After nearly nine weeks and one final very strongly worded email, I have eventually today received written confirmation from the After Sales Director that ALL works, including a replacement genuine Hymer windscreen will be supplied and fitted free of charge at my convenience. They have even offered to collect the MH from my house (two hours drive from the dealership) and bring it back when the work is done.

I won't be celebrating too much until the work is completed, which will be in the new year due to parts availability and Xmas - but the main thing is I have the written acceptance and agreement to to do the work FOC - Hallelujah!!

Phew - that was a battle!

Excellent. Ever the optimist, I wonder if it might be worthwhile, now they seem to be in cooperative mode, to ask them to keep you updated on availability of the various parts, as I suspect delivery dates may slide around somewhat under present circumstances.

 

But really, what a bunch of wallies allowing things to degenerate to that point before being dragged into doing what they were always going to have to do, one way or another. When all the work is completed (I hope to your satisfaction!) you might let us know the full story - assuming the change of mind wasn't just the result of some sudden Damascene revelation! :-D

[TeamRienza]

Well done, we look forward to hearing the fat lady sing.

My dealer (Hymer and Fiat professional franchises) are very customer centred, but when my screen cracked, we had just missed the weekly delivery from Hymer. Order placed. When the screen arrived it was damaged, so replacement ordered. Too late for the next delivery, but arrived the following week and was promptly fitted. This was pre Brexit and of course before the pandemic and logistics issues currently being experienced. As you can see, time can slip quickly by.

Fingers crossed for speedy resolution.. make sure you fit the wiper blades yourself!!

 

Davy

[Paul F]

Brian Kirby - 2021-12-16 7:11 PM

 

Paul F - 2021-12-16 6:15 PM

:-D :-D :-D :-D

Bringing it right back on topic here folks.

After nearly nine weeks and one final very strongly worded email, I have eventually today received written confirmation from the After Sales Director that ALL works, including a replacement genuine Hymer windscreen will be supplied and fitted free of charge at my convenience. They have even offered to collect the MH from my house (two hours drive from the dealership) and bring it back when the work is done.

I won't be celebrating too much until the work is completed, which will be in the new year due to parts availability and Xmas - but the main thing is I have the written acceptance and agreement to to do the work FOC - Hallelujah!!

Phew - that was a battle!

Excellent. Ever the optimist, I wonder if it might be worthwhile, now they seem to be in cooperative mode, to ask them to keep you updated on availability of the various parts, as I suspect delivery dates may slide around somewhat under present circumstances.

 

But really, what a bunch of wallies allowing things to degenerate to that point before being dragged into doing what they were always going to have to do, one way or another. When all the work is completed (I hope to your satisfaction!) you might let us know the full story - assuming the change of mind wasn't just the result of some sudden Damascene revelation! :-D

 

I totally agree Brian - all so unnecessary and frustrating.

 

Radio silence has definitely been abandoned, with more emails in one day than the previous eight weeks. All appear very helpful and assure me of regular updates to follow about parts delivery after the Xmas shutdown which starts tomorrow.

 

It would give me a great deal of pleasure to effectively conclude this thread by summarising a job well done, and I look forward to doing so as early in 2022 as possible.

 

Watch this space!!

[Hans]

Recap To Paul. The correct position of the wiper blades is is recently discussed. And very important On a A class motorhome. A Unique front screen for your Hymer type does not exist. It is not engraved by marks. Like you Rolex watch. It just fit by dimensions.And keep a good relation going on whit your dealer.

[Hans]

Marks related to your Hymer type To be correct.

[Hans]

Because Of a lot of comments in my agility dog club about this.Have a leak test done by the repairers after repair. Not by water but ultrasonic.

[Hans]

I worked 30 years as a quality assurance Manager In natural gas Equipment. From the tundra's of Russia to Europe.

[Shockabilly]

I've been following this thread with great interest and know from painful experience of how Hymer warranty claims can be dragged out and in turn drag you (the owner of a shiny new expensive van) down; I've had 5 new Hymers over a 30 year span & without exception ALL the UK supplying dealers (including Madisons, Hymer UK, Brownhills & Lowdhams) have been woeful at best.

 

All new vans have issues irrespective of marque (although my 1980's Autosleeper was trouble free); of my 5 Hymers one was ok-ish, two were complete dogs (sold after 18 months & 2 years respectively), one a 2006 544 was absolutely top notch for 9 years & the last A Class was pretty good but had a serious Fiat defect which only got fettled after complaining to the European head of Fiat/Mopar.

 

I now have gone full circle & returned to the source, in this case a 2021 VW T6.1 Hillside Birchover which is rather splendid, however, you guessed it, I've already had a couple of issues but the supplying dealer Heart of England Motorhomes have been absolutely top notch & have put my experiences of the past 30 years with Hymer dealers into perspective...to repeat myself ALL Hymer dealers on my aforementioned list I've dealt with have been woeful.

 

I am aware that the Covid era has ushered in many new Hymer & motorhome dealers into first time ownership & they (the new owners), quite rightly, have innocently and perhaps naively expected the same level of service they experience from car dealers, especially as most of the new owners have parted with 80k plus of their hard earned brass to have a new van sitting on their drive...the Hymer motorhome industry after sales service is at best painful and at worst very costly to both your wealth and health.

 

The VW suits our present situation & the T6.1 is an absolute joy to drive...I can even park anywhere I want & have explored areas I'd have only dreamt of visiting in a Hymer (due to size etc) BUT at some point when & if European travel opens up I fully expect to be tempted back into the fray, the sad thing being that I'm not sure I can be bothered or even cope with the (I'm using this term again) woeful experiences that warranty periods serve up in heaps & apart from Hymer the rest of the bunch including marques from the UK, Spain, Italy and other German brands seem, by comparison cheap and generally of poor quality.

 

Hang on in there...happy times await, sadly, usually after the warranty period has expired and you can find a nice little indie service centre who will fettle things quickly, without fuss & not charge you an arm & a leg.

[Tenjoe]

Phew, what a saga. Well done Paul for sticking at it.

Perhaps when the all the issues are dealt with to your satisfaction you could name the dealership and thank them for their outstanding work.

[Paul F]

Just a little update for everyone that was clearly very interested in my warranty strife.

 

Well we are now fifteen weeks further down the line from reporting the issues, and after much debate, six weeks on from the dealer fully accepting their responsibilities in writing. I now get a regular weekly call or email to update me on progress, but thus far no idea of when the repair work will be carried out. Apparently, no parts have been provided from the factory yet, and no indication of when they will - but I am told the order is chased each week.

 

I seem to remember reading on a Hymer website somewhere that their service level agreement for spare parts delivery is 24 hours in mainland Europe, and 48 hours for anywhere in Continental Europe - but I cannot find that again at the moment. I expect that if I challenged the point, it would be explained with an apology blaming Christmas, Brexit and Covid for the failure.

 

I am patiently waiting as I have the dealers commitment to do the work, and the update emails only serve to support the claim further - but I will admit, the situation is starting to irritate me again.

 

I said I wouldnt be celebrating a victory too much before the work was done, and it seems that caution was well placed!!

 

[Derek Uzzell]

Paul F - 2022-01-31 6:37 PM

 

...I seem to remember reading on a Hymer website somewhere that their service level agreement for spare parts delivery is 24 hours in mainland Europe, and 48 hours for anywhere in Continental Europe...

 

Customer Satisfaction section

 

Fast spare part delivery within 48 hours throughout Europe

 

https://www.hymer.com/gb/en/brand-value

 

and the penultimate page of this 2019 Hymer brochure mentions spare parts delivery "throughout Europe" as 24-48 hours.

 

https://www.lowdhams.com/file/uploads/raw/document/2019/09/13/09/14/hymer-ambition-brochure-2019.pdf

 

(That the brochure is titled Hymer "Ambition" may, however, be significant.)

 

 

[Paul F]

Many thanks Derek - that was the webpage I read before.

 

I think I will find it hard to resist the temptation to send the link across to the dealer after this weeks (probably) disappointing update!

[Paul F]

Wow - 5,000 views...this is clearly a subject that has interested people, and quite timely as I was going to post an update today anyway.

 

So here I sit, over 27 weeks since I first reported the defects to my dealer, and 19 weeks since they finally agreed to complete the work for me free of charge. Lots more communication and stress has followed, but all too repetitive and trivial to warrant a further post on the forum.

 

It has taken 61 emails, 2 threats of court action and I dont know how many phone calls to get to this point, so you can perhaps appreciate my excitement when they finally collected the MH last week, and took it away for all the work to be done.

 

After it was returned yesterday I rushed to inspect the vehicle and taking each repair in turn;

 

- Genuine Hymer replacement windscreen fitted and a nice little modification to the wiper blades to prevent the ends popping out as they did before (10/10 for them on this one)

- Caratec amplifier replaced for a new one, and all tested and working as it should so far - another good result.

- Fawo TV lifter replaced with an updated more robust version that hopefully will not break like last time - TV now goes up and down a treat

- Jack lead from bedroom TV to amplifier replaced (or so I am told)

 

All sounds great doesn't it?

 

Unfortunately, the upgraded TV lifter has a very shrill alarm type buzzer built in to it, for who knows what, that now squeels away for 60 seconds every time I open the habitation or cab door or take any load from the electrical circuits!! It's OK when the TV is lowered away, but will hardly make for a relaxing evening's viewing when in use.

 

On top of this, the bedroom TV is exactly the same as it was before the van went away - intermittent sound from one speaker rather than stereo from two!

 

I sent some videos of the new problems, and now we are waiting for the manufacturer to tell us what to do with the lifter, and a further warranty claim is in with Hymer for a complete new bedroom TV (who knows how many months that might take)

 

I am at the stage of expecting Jeremy Beadle or Ant and Dec to appear from nowhere, laughing and telling me that the whole thing is a practical joke. Sadly, I fear that not to be the case. You really couldnt script this sort of stuff!

 

Oh well, off we go into month 7 of the saga and wait to see what happens next.

 

 

 

 

[Hans]

All the best Paul F.