Upgrade weight for cheaper road tax?

[Ronnie63]

Hi all just wondered if it's easy or worth it to save 100 quid a year in road tax? How involved is it to change?

 

Thanks Ronnie

[Derek Uzzell]

Welcome to the Out&AboutLive forums, Ronnie.

 

How easy/costly it will be to uprate a motorhome's Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) to move it from Road Tax Class TC11 (Private Light Goods Vehicles - GVW not exceeding 3500kg) to the less expensive Road Tax Class TC10 (Private HGV - GVW exceeding 3500kg) will depend on the motorhome involved and the amount of the GVW increase.

 

Two 'management' companies specialise in vehicle weight changes - SVTech and Van Weight Engineering.

 

http://www.svtech.co.uk/

 

https://www.vanweightengineering.com/home

 

A simple 'paper-only' upgrade would likely cost £200-£300 from either company.

 

If you GOOGLE-search on

 

motorhome weight upgrade

 

you'll find plenty of stuff about it online.

 

 

[Tracker]

Most people upgrade their GVW to gain more payload, but there are downsides too.

 

One is lower speed limits that apply to LGVs in some countries although quite how that would be enforced I have no idea.

 

There may also be driving license implications too, but I don't remember, so if you have not already done so an investigation into the pros and cons might be a good idea.

 

It's a long while since I did it and I used SVTech , I recall, were knowledgeable, helpful and efficient.

 

Sorry to be so vague but medical issues have affected my memory!

[weldted]

Just up rated our Burstner from 4000 kg to 4599 kg. The max without mods on the Fiat 4000kg heavy chassis, £312 inc vat took five working days. i appreciate you are a lot lighter but just to give you an idea of the costs.

[Derek Uzzell]

Tracker - 2022-02-23 7:18 PM

 

...There may also be driving license implications too, but I don't remember, so if you have not already done so an investigation into the pros and cons might be a good idea....

 

 

The UK's driving licence categories are shown here

 

https://www.gov.uk/driving-licence-categories

 

A standard 'car' licence (Category B) permits the driving of a vehicle with a GVW not exceeding 3500kg. To drive a vehicle with a GVW over 3500kg and not exceeding 7500kg, a Category C1 licence is needed.

 

At age 70 retaining a C1 licence will require a driver to pass a medical examination (guidance here).

 

https://d4drivers.uk/driver-medicals/motorhome-medical/#:~:text=A%20C1%20licence%20required%20to,drive%20vehicles%20over%203.5%20tonnes.

 

Although motorhome owners usually employ (and pay for) a professional company to 'middle-manage' the weight-change exercise on their behalf, some people have successfully DIYed the process, directly dealing with the DVLA themselves. A fairly recent example is here

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/LGV-to-PHGV-Up-Plate/59043/

 

[Ronnie63]

Thanks guys for the info, and the welcome, been lurking for weeks and should have posted an intro

 

Our MH is a 2002 Ace Milano on a Ducato chasss, I guess the £300+ cost would deem it not worth while! Might upgrade the MH before that time. If it was just a simple form to DVLA with a small charge I may have gone for it.

 

Thanks Ronnie

 

Edit plated for 3400kgs

[Derek Uzzell]

In principle, if you just want to change your motorhome's tax class from PLG to PHGV to reduce the road tax cost, you OUGHT to be able to do this fairly simply. There's guidance here

 

https://www.gov.uk/change-vehicle-tax-class

 

A GVW increase from 3400kg to (say) 3550kg would make the motorhome eligible for the PHGV tax class and - if the DVLA were prepared to play ball - there should be no charge for the change and any difference between the PLG payment you've made and the PHGV payments should be refunded to you.

 

(You should keep in mind that a PHGV motorhome is potentially less attractive to UK buyers because of the C1 driving-licence requirement and the gradual decrease in the number of UK drivers who have the C1 entitlement.)

[Ronnie63]

Derek Uzzell - 2022-02-24 8:49 AM

 

In principle, if you just want to change your motorhome's tax class from PLG to PHGV to reduce the road tax cost, you OUGHT to be able to do this fairly simply. There's guidance here

 

https://www.gov.uk/change-vehicle-tax-class

 

A GVW increase from 3400kg to (say) 3550kg would make the motorhome eligible for the PHGV tax class and - if the DVLA were prepared to play ball - there should be no charge for the change and any difference between the PLG payment you've made and the PHGV payments should be refunded to you.

 

(You should keep in mind that a PHGV motorhome is potentially less attractive to UK buyers because of the C1 driving-licence requirement and the gradual decrease in the number of UK drivers who have the C1 entitlement.)

Thanks Derek I will have a look at that and decide

 

Ronnie

[Brian Kirby]

But, before you go any further, I would suggest fully loading your van as for a trip, taking it to a weighbridge, and having it weighed so as to confirm the actual "in use" laden weight, plus the actual loads on each axle. The up-plating process, if professionally conducted, will involve a review of the chassis and tyres to verify their adequacy for a load exceeding 3,400kg. This may reveal a need for suspension reinforcement, possibly including stronger rear tyres, so getting the van to a technically adequate standard for up-plating could prove costly.

 

It is common for motorhomes to run out of load capacity on one axle (usually, but not always, the rear) well before they exceed their plated MAM. It is also quite common for motorhomers to run their vans overweight in complete innocence of the need to observe the individual axle load limits! If your van is already running over its plated MAM when fully laden you need to up-plate or reduce load to be legal. However, if it is running with either axle over it permitted load state, even if below its overall MAM, it is still illegally loaded in that state. Be aware use in this state this is likely to have insurance implications should a claim arise.

 

The van appears to be a 5 berth with 4 belted travel seats and a large "quiff" style Luton body. From what I can see, it would be quite easy to overload in innocence, especially if travelling with children. All I'm suggesting, is that it would probably be wise to establish your starting point before changing things! :-)

[Ronnie63]

Brian Kirby - 2022-02-24 11:46 AM

 

But, before you go any further, I would suggest fully loading your van as for a trip, taking it to a weighbridge, and having it weighed so as to confirm the actual "in use" laden weight, plus the actual loads on each axle. The up-plating process, if professionally conducted, will involve a review of the chassis and tyres to verify their adequacy for a load exceeding 3,400kg. This may reveal a need for suspension reinforcement, possibly including stronger rear tyres, so getting the van to a technically adequate standard for up-plating could prove costly.

 

It is common for motorhomes to run out of load capacity on one axle (usually, but not always, the rear) well before they exceed their plated MAM. It is also quite common for motorhomers to run their vans overweight in complete innocence of the need to observe the individual axle load limits! If your van is already running over its plated MAM when fully laden you need to up-plate or reduce load to be legal. However, if it is running with either axle over it permitted load state, even if below its overall MAM, it is still illegally loaded in that state. Be aware use in this state this is likely to have insurance implications should a claim arise.

 

The van appears to be a 5 berth with 4 belted travel seats and a large "quiff" style Luton body. From what I can see, it would be quite easy to overload in innocence, especially if travelling with children. All I'm suggesting, is that it would probably be wise to establish your starting point before changing things! :-)

 

Thanks Brian, a lot to take in there! Indeed it's 5 berth with over cab, it's usually just us two and the collie travelling but like to carry water in the tank for any off camp stops. I think the next time we head away I will run it over a weigh bridge to check. The 85bhp engine is fine on the flat but feints on gradients! so lighter the better!

 

Cheers Ronnie

[weldted]

We bought a new Elddis Aspire 255 in 2012 at the NEC. At the time Glossops were offering a free weight upgrade to 3700kg because of the poor payload of the van at 3500 kg. Something like 270 kg. As it was a paper exercise and no were mods needed. I found even that was not enough given how we use the van. Decided to take it up to 3850 kg. This involved fitting semi air and increase the tyre size from 215.70/R15 to 225/70/r15. I could get 3850 without increasing tyre size but to get 2240 over the rear axle the tyre change was required. Not cheap but piece of mind.

[Derek Uzzell]

I remember that and also that - after the modifications (semi-air rear suspension, larger rear tyres) had been made in order to uprate the GVW from 3700kg to 3850kg - the motorhome exhibited worrying 'oversteering' characteristics when cornering.

 

This long 2018 forum discussion thread discussed the problem

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Oversteer/48778/

 

Although fitting larger tyres to the vehicle's front wheels evidently helped matters, the motorhome still behaved peculiarly.

 

If this proves anything, it's that what SHOULD be uncontroversial modifications can have an unanticipated effect.

 

(As Ronnie's plan was to uprate his motorhome's GVW to over-3500kg in order to save on road tax, there's no reason to weigh or modify the vehicle unless he planned to exploit the weight increase. Having said that, it still might be useful to find out the vehicle's normally-loaded weight and its individual axle-loadings just in case any of those values are being exceeded.)

[Tracker]

When I uprated an Autotrail Cheyenne round about 2011 ish to get more payload - from 3500 to 3800 I believe - I had to fit greater ply tyres- maybe from 8 ply top 10 ply - as well as greater section tyres which fitted onto the existing alloy rims OK.

 

Semi air suspension Dunlop units with air pressure gauge were supplied by Marcle Leisure and being mechanically capable in those days they were not hard to fit. If you do not know what you are doing best go to a garage that does as getting it wrong could cause a bad crash.

 

We found that using the Dunlops at anything higher than the minimum pressure made the van very bouncy but that apart the handling was not adversely affected although I have heard tales of less stability for some users.

 

Perhaps we were lucky although I suspect certain combinations affect certain vans more than others. It is a bit of a black art when you modify anything from original spec. and results are sometimes not in line with expectations?

[Keithl]

Ronnie,

 

As a general rule you will find that the MAM (GVW) is less then the sum of the individual maximum axle weights to allow some leeway in loading. Look at your VIN plate and you should find this info to verify for your MH.

 

So the quickest way to uprate your MH would be to increase the MAM to the actual combined maximum weights of the two axles (or a safe figure over 3,500 kg). This will not require any modifications or engineers certificates as you are not increasing any physical loading on either axle. the only downside is to actually load to the new MAM you have to be VERY careful not to overload either axle!

 

Keith.

[Ronnie63]

Thanks guys, I'm now considering this new low emissions zone thing! looks like under 3.5t is a tenner, anything over could be 100 quid! The plot thickens!

[Keithl]

Ronnie63 - 2022-02-24 6:27 PM

 

Thanks guys, I'm now considering this new low emissions zone thing! looks like under 3.5t is a tenner, anything over could be 100 quid! The plot thickens!

Yes, expensive! But also easy to avoid!!!

 

We live on the outskirts of Birmingham and it would cost us £50 a day to enter (or cross) the LEZ but it just as easy to jump on the motorway and go the long way round if we need to do so.

 

Keith.

[VXman]

I got mine done at https://www.vanweightengineering.com/

 

He is excellent - quick, helpful. I cannot find the exact price but from memory he was half the price of SV Tech so actually well worth it in terms of road tax.

 

Drop him an enquiry with all your vehicle details. He will advise on what can be done for free. No charge until you actually request the paperwork to be completed.

[Ronnie63]

VXman - 2022-02-27 10:21 AM

 

I got mine done at https://www.vanweightengineering.com/

 

He is excellent - quick, helpful. I cannot find the exact price but from memory he was half the price of SV Tech so actually well worth it in terms of road tax.

 

Drop him an enquiry with all your vehicle details. He will advise on what can be done for free. No charge until you actually request the paperwork to be completed.

 

Thanks for this will have a look

[simian]

Possibly the greatest downside applicable when uprating to > 3500kg class is the requirement to

sport 'ANGLES MORT' stickers in France !

Jeez they're ugly, glad I have the 3 easily detachable magnetic variety.

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

And higher autoroute toll charges (Class 3 rather than Class 2).

[simian]

Derek Uzzell - 2022-02-27 5:49 PM

 

And higher autoroute toll charges (Class 3 rather than Class 2).

 

Actually based on personal experience I've not found that to be the case, at least not on the western autoroute toll routes

through France. I'm 95% certain classification charge is based on vehicle height. 3m being the critical dimension?

Hence the stories of motorhome owners with sub 3500kg (but possibly over 3m) vans being displayed as class 3 toll charge

and having to argue reclassification to class 2 m/home via the speakerphone/cctv.

To allow the missus to get out and make the payment due to our door windows being at an inconvenient height I

often stop well short of the pay booth which suggests that there is no weight sensing technology underfoot.

On a few occasions out of several hundred I have been flagged up as class 3 (same van) and had to argue

the class 2 m/home basis. I've assumed that the height sensor was misaligned.

[Paul F]

simian - 2022-02-27 3:49 PM

 

Possibly the greatest downside applicable when uprating to > 3500kg class is the requirement to

sport 'ANGLES MORT' stickers in France !

Jeez they're ugly, glad I have the 3 easily detachable magnetic variety.

 

Dont forget the equally ugly 200mm diameter '80', '100' and '110' stickers on the rear!

[simian]

Paul F - 2022-02-28 11:20 AM

 

simian - 2022-02-27 3:49 PM

 

Possibly the greatest downside applicable when uprating to > 3500kg class is the requirement to

sport 'ANGLES MORT' stickers in France !

Jeez they're ugly, glad I have the 3 easily detachable magnetic variety.

Don't forget the equally ugly 200mm diameter '80', '100' and '110' stickers on the rear!

Agreed, although I must say I don't think I've ever noticed a UK reg. vehicle displaying a set.

Certainly I've never done so, I'm not even sure non French vehicles are required to.

I did display the Angles Mort signs though, being a safety related issue. Whether or not they are effective only time will tell. Ive just returned via France and I'm sure I didn't crush any cyclists, so it may well have worked for me. Although there could be anything hidden in the crud underneath the van, jet wash needed !

[Derek Uzzell]

simian - 2022-02-28 10:55 AM

 

Derek Uzzell - 2022-02-27 5:49 PM

 

And higher autoroute toll charges (Class 3 rather than Class 2).

 

Actually based on personal experience I've not found that to be the case, at least not on the western autoroute toll routes

through France. I'm 95% certain classification charge is based on vehicle height. 3m being the critical dimension?...

 

This link is to a French-language leaflet describing the autoroute vehicle classes

 

https://www.autoroutes.fr/FCKeditor/UserFiles/File/ASFA%20CLASSE%20VEHICULE%20BD.pdf

 

The impression is given that Classe 3 applies to 2-axle motorhomes, but only if their height exceeds 3 metres. In fact Classe 3 should be applied to all 2-axle vehicles (except motorbikes!) that have a GVW over 3500kg.

 

The 'height measurement' is also more complex than it might first appear, It was discussed here in 2018

 

https://www.autoroutes.fr/FCKeditor/UserFiles/File/ASFA%20CLASSE%20VEHICULE%20BD.pdf

[Tracker]

Sometimes, regardless of plated weight, French Autoroute tolls classed us as 3 but a simple request over the intercom 'Camping car, classe deux, s'il vous plait' always got us classe 2 rates - regardless of weight!

I guess their cameras did not see the stickers on the back!