david lloyd Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 Hi all, my newly acquired (near classic) 2006 Pioneer Renoir is equipped with the Sargent EC200 PSU2007 mated to an EC328 control panel. It has two Halfords 115ah sealed lead acid leisure batteries and a Yuasa 110ah sealed lead acid starter battery. There is a 100w (I believe) solar panel and I have replaced the PWM regulator with a 20amp Epever MPPT regulator. The 240v charger can be used to charge the starter battery if this is selected on the control panel and everything is working well so far - batteries seem to be in pretty good shape and are four years old. However, the EC 200 charging unit only charges at a fixed rate of 13.8v (later models had a multi stage charger fitted) and the fan is noisy and on constantly so I am thinking of replacing this with something like a Ctek charger perhaps wired through the EC200 using existing cabling and able to monitor charging through the control panel. I have a Ctek MXS 5 amp that I used to recondition the engine battery when I first got it home as it may well have been stood a while but I think this one would be a bit small to do a permanent job. Ctek do a 10 amp version but also introduced the CS One UK which is an intelligent charger (8amp output) that can detect what battery it is charging and set up the best charging regime - not cheap at £220 but not a lot more than the MXS 10. I believe there are also other supply type chargers in their range. Has anyone changed a Sargent charging unit in this way (basically bypassing the old charger by replacing it with another using the existing wiring) and is this going to work? Would 8 or 10amp be big enough for two 115ah batteries plus the 110ah starter battery? Should also add that when these batteries do come to the end of their life they will be replaced with one large lithium so I’m hoping any changes made will be future proof. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Labby Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 If you check out www.apluljackelectronics.co.uk they do modified EC200 charging units , including fan less versions, which may be an alternative worth looking at . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirou Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 No, 8 or 10A would not be enough, unless the charger is never doing any real work as you stay on EHU all the time. If you drain those two (or 3) batteries to any significant level on a regular basis then this poor charger will quickly die of "exhaustion". I suspect it would not last long into a charge cycle at 8-10A due to overheating and quickly dial down current to something barely worth mentioning. Which would mean you'd spend ages stuck on a cable while getting your batteries charged at a trickle. Rule of thumb is at least 1/10th of battery capacity. So in your case a 25A charger would be in the OK range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirou Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 Other than that, what you want to achieve is quite possible. Just pick the gear that is up to the job, not terribly underpowered. Like one of Victron Phoenix or Blue Smart range https://www.victronenergy.com/chargers/phoenix-charger-12v-24v https://www.victronenergy.com/chargers/blue-smart-ip22-charger or Votronic https://votronic.de/index.php/en/products/mobile-chargers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted October 1, 2022 Author Share Posted October 1, 2022 Thanks Labby and Spirou. Must admit the thought of a Victron or Votronic product did enter my thoughts - especially since I had a previous motorhome converted to a Lithium system using all Victron products (apart from the batteries themselves) including a dc/dc charger, 240v charger, battery monitor etc. The system was brilliant, managed on the Victron app and saw us through one of the last lockdowns stranded in France for six weeks in winter. So it may well be a better long term solution if eventually switching to lithium. As the previous installation I mentioned was done by RP Motorhomes it’s not something I have attempted myself but I am pretty competent. Would you say it is an easy DIY mod to wire such a charger into the EC200? David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirou Posted October 1, 2022 Share Posted October 1, 2022 I don't know the sargent system and how you have things wired but the simplest option is to just wire things in parallel and plug in whichever you need. Essentially the same as a solar charger. If you want to combine functionalities then it becomes more complicated and beyond troubleshooting over forum posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethelric Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 Your MXS 5 is capable of delivering 5A for 24 hours a day. That is 120AH per day. Would you be using that much? I have just added the same charger to my van. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted October 3, 2022 Author Share Posted October 3, 2022 On 9/30/2022 at 7:49 PM, Labby said: If you check out www.apluljackelectronics.co.uk they do modified EC200 charging units , including fan less versions, which may be an alternative worth looking at . Thanks for this labby - have spoken to the technical people at Apuljack electronics and, as you say, they do essentially an exchange service for an upgraded unit with new charger. The straight exchange is fanless but still with a set charge rate but they also do a slightly more expensive six stage charger that has a fan but with quieter mode when not working hard. The old one is just a loud fan in all the time. It’s not a particularly cheap option but having removed the EC200 from the overhead cupboard I can see it would be somewhat more complicated to wire in another charger and bypass the old one. The exchange PSU would simply plug in and off you go. so, we are going away shortly and on our return will send ours off to Apuljack who, on receipt of that unit, will send the replacement out straight away - postal strikes permitting. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted October 23, 2022 Author Share Posted October 23, 2022 Update. Have found a 240v cable has been installed that terminates on a waterproof terminal block next to the leisure batteries but there is no power to it - this would give me another option of installing a multi stage Victron charger adjacent to the batteries when on hook up instead of the noisy, single output Sergent charger. Tracing it back across the vehicle it enters a box in which the 240v hookup cable enters and connects to what looks like a relay. There are four sets of terminals - looking at it from the front the first set of terminals had been unused but this is where my newly discovered cable is now connected. The second set is connected to an Orange cable taking the power up to the consumer unit - this set of terminals are looped to the fourth set. The third set is where the mains input (from the EHU) is connected. In the photo the cable at the top is the one going round to the battery compartment, the one on the left is the EHU input and the one at the bottom takes power to the PSU. When connected to the mains there is power to terminals 2,3 and 4 but no power to terminal 1 and therefore no power at the other end near the batteries. I can’t see any other switches or junctions, the cable simply exits from this relay box and terminated at the block near the battery. I am assuming the previous owner also used this for a separate charger than the Sergent unit un the PSU. Any ideas anyone? David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 David, That does look like a relay so my guess is an auto changeover relay for an inverter. If you apply 240 volts to your 'new' wire without an EHU being connected does the relay 'click' and the Sargent unit come to life? Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted October 23, 2022 Author Share Posted October 23, 2022 Hi Keith - you got it in one. Hadn’t thought of an inverter as we have never used one but there is a hole in the settee from immediately in front of the batteries where something has been removed - probably a switch/socket for the inverter. Have done as you suggest and applied 240v to the cable near the battery - didn’t hear the relay click but tested the other sockets and they are all live. Question now is, do I invest in an inverter (which can be handy off EHU) but it would seem rather silly to use an inverter to charge the batteries it’s taking power from…..or, do I utilise this cable somehow to put a 240v socket near the battery for a Victron charger? well done Keith Davud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted December 1, 2022 Author Share Posted December 1, 2022 Update. I did keep the inverter wiring in the end and have fitted a 375w Victron inverter mainly for charging laptop etc. and wired it to an on/off switch. Sent the PSU off to Apuljack Electronics in Somerset who replaced the fixed rate charger with an intelligent six stage charger that is quiet, can charge up to 14.4v when needed and can also charge engine battery via switch on control panel. Turns out the solar charger is spliced into the PSU charger wiring so they work together or can have the solar independent when no mains available. After much deliberation on the options available this seemed the most sensible and practical route. Time for a few days away now to try it out. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted December 19, 2022 Author Share Posted December 19, 2022 And the time away showed the Apuljack upgrade to be a very good choice - no fan noise, 6 stage charging of both habitation batteries and (if switched over on panel) the engine battery. Unfortunately, the freezing temperatures highlighted a problem with cold starting that concerned me but, thanks to some good advice from Nick (euroserv), a weak battery was identified as the cause and a replacement is on its way from Tayna as I type. Hopefully, that’s us all sorted now battery/charging wise for a few years. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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