sciatica

[J9withdogs]

Dave

 

Since getting my frozen shoulder I have been trawling t'internet for solutions.

 

I came across something called trigger point therapy and massage.

 

Essence of it is- there are point on the muscles and ligaments that seize and form little knots. These then have the effect of shortening said muscles/ligaments and cause pain, often referred to other areas.

 

Not saying it is the culprit in every case, but it may be worth you looking at to see if the solution lies elsewhere.

 

I have found a great masseuse in Codsall who is doing wonders for me!

[michele]

Ok Dave,

So sorry it's a horrible pain and it never seems to go ..I don't know what else to say aprt from I hope it leaves you soon .

You take care hopefully he might be able to suggest something I hope !

[GJH]

Dave Newell - 2007-06-13 2:43 PM

 

I don't hold out much hope of an early solution now. :-(

Hope you get more out of the NHS than I did with my back Dave.

 

Graham

[Dave Newell]

The current diagnosis is a (probable) prolapsed disc which no amount of massage or manipulation can do anything about. When I had a similar problem in '97 which put me out of work for three and a half years it was finally dealt with by the local hospital's pain management clinic. The consultant anaesthetist who ran the clinic diagnosed it virtually straight away as a self aggravating inflamed sciatic nerve at S5/L1. Apparently a rough bony growth develops in the nerve aperture of the vertebrae and if the nerve gets pressed against this it becomes inflamed and then the inflammation in the nerve presses it harder against this rough bony growth an so it goes on. He booked me in for an epidural steroid injection which worked wonders.

 

The pain is similar this time but I'm also getting severe pins and needles in my right leg and foot, the right side of my right foot is almost constantly numb now which is why they suspect a prolapsed disc which the steroid injection wouldn't help. If it proves to be not a disc then its back to the pain clinic and hopefully another injection, if thats the case I hope it lasts seven years or more like the last one did.

 

D.

[maggyd]

Michelle cant be bothered to read all theses tales of woe *-) But as to what to take I was prescribed Co-Codamol and Ibrufen on prescription when I had a bad attack last year when I was rolled up in a ball on my back, so see your Doc and if you cant make it to the surgery as I couldnt !ring and ask for a prescription. Hope this helps .

[Guest caraprof]

Dave Newell - 2007-06-13 3:42 PM The current diagnosis is a (probable) prolapsed disc which no amount of massage or manipulation can do anything about. When I had a similar problem in '97 which put me out of work for three and a half years it was finally dealt with by the local hospital's pain management clinic. The consultant anaesthetist who ran the clinic diagnosed it virtually straight away as a self aggravating inflamed sciatic nerve at S5/L1. Apparently a rough bony growth develops in the nerve aperture of the vertebrae and if the nerve gets pressed against this it becomes inflamed and then the inflammation in the nerve presses it harder against this rough bony growth an so it goes on. He booked me in for an epidural steroid injection which worked wonders. The pain is similar this time but I'm also getting severe pins and needles in my right leg and foot, the right side of my right foot is almost constantly numb now which is why they suspect a prolapsed disc which the steroid injection wouldn't help. If it proves to be not a disc then its back to the pain clinic and hopefully another injection, if thats the case I hope it lasts seven years or more like the last one did. D.

If you read my earlier post about prolapsed discs and a laminectomy you will see that I have a little knowledge of this process. What I didn't mention is that I had the procedure 30 years ago when it was much more serious than it is now. (By that I don't belittle your symptons, I just mean that surgical techniques weren't as advanced and nowadays it's much more refined and easier to do).

I was in agony for two years and like you, lying down brought such relief. I had the operation and after that I hill climbed and back-packed and life was great again.

I had minor relapses but both were sorted out by a few sessions with a chiropractor so obviously were not as serious as the original prolapse.

You're putting on a brave face and that's admirable but I know how painful this condition can be. My advice is: if you are offered the operation, go for it. There are some prolapses that can only be remedied by surgery and yours sounds as if it's one of them.

Good luck!

[michele]

What is the difference between a chiro & a physio Serious only answer's

 

I need one for my son

[Guest caraprof]

michele - 2007-06-13 9:55 PM What is the difference between a chiro & a physio Serious only answer's I need one for my son

There's a huge difference. Chiropractors are fully qualified doctors who have gone on to do a specialised course in spinal afflictions and manipulation of the same.

A physiotherapist is a sort of qualified masseuse who is trained in pain relief and the correct sort of exercise for people with injuries, strains and post-operative problems.

I do not mean to denigrate physios in any way as they can be highly trained but the difference between them and a chiropractor is about the same as the difference between a doctor and a nurse.

[davenewellhome]

caraprof - 2007-06-13 9:50 PM

Dave Newell - 2007-06-13 3:42 PM The current diagnosis is a (probable) prolapsed disc which no amount of massage or manipulation can do anything about. When I had a similar problem in '97 which put me out of work for three and a half years it was finally dealt with by the local hospital's pain management clinic. The consultant anaesthetist who ran the clinic diagnosed it virtually straight away as a self aggravating inflamed sciatic nerve at S5/L1. Apparently a rough bony growth develops in the nerve aperture of the vertebrae and if the nerve gets pressed against this it becomes inflamed and then the inflammation in the nerve presses it harder against this rough bony growth an so it goes on. He booked me in for an epidural steroid injection which worked wonders. The pain is similar this time but I'm also getting severe pins and needles in my right leg and foot, the right side of my right foot is almost constantly numb now which is why they suspect a prolapsed disc which the steroid injection wouldn't help. If it proves to be not a disc then its back to the pain clinic and hopefully another injection, if thats the case I hope it lasts seven years or more like the last one did. D.

If you read my earlier post about prolapsed discs and a laminectomy you will see that I have a little knowledge of this process. What I didn't mention is that I had the procedure 30 years ago when it was much more serious than it is now. (By that I don't belittle your symptons, I just mean that surgical techniques weren't as advanced and nowadays it's much more refined and easier to do).

I was in agony for two years and like you, lying down brought such relief. I had the operation and after that I hill climbed and back-packed and life was great again.

I had minor relapses but both were sorted out by a few sessions with a chiropractor so obviously were not as serious as the original prolapse.

You're putting on a brave face and that's admirable but I know how painful this condition can be. My advice is: if you are offered the operation, go for it. There are some prolapses that can only be remedied by surgery and yours sounds as if it's one of them.

Good luck!

Thanks Frank, I know you weren't belittling my condition and trust me when I say if they offer an operation I'll be getting into the gown in double quick time. As I said earlier in this thread I don't see anything brave about being in pain (but thanks for the thought ;-) ) its just there and you deal with it. The last time I had serious problems like this I was medically retired from my job, this time is different though, I'm the boss of a one man band. If I don't go to work each day my business goes down the chute and I'm not going to let the last two years of hard work go so easy. If there's nothing they can do then I'll have to re-assess and probably take someone on to do the grunt work, trouble is I really do enjoy doing that side of the work myself.So for now its just keep taking the pills and try not to overdo things, rest when possible and try not to sit on hard surfaces.Thanks, D.

[davenewellhome]

Update:

 

Today I saw the speshurlist and I have to say that although the last time I saw him, ten years ago, I thought he was a complete waste of time and a right arrogant ar$£h01£, that today he was completely different! Hisconsiderd opinion is that its wear and tear of the spine in general and hopefully a bout of physiotherapy will help to alleviate the problems. If this is not effective then I can book in directly with the hospital to see him again and he will order a scan and progress from there.

 

No quick cures but at least I'm one step further along the line.

 

Oh yes, the good news is that it's eased a bit from what it was and I can now at least sit down for a while without being in screaming agony or losing touch with my foot. Although sneezing is still a bugger!

 

D.

[bigal55]

caraprof - 2007-06-13 10:15 PM

michele - 2007-06-13 9:55 PM What is the difference between a chiro & a physio Serious only answer's I need one for my son

There's a huge difference. Chiropractors are fully qualified doctors who have gone on to do a specialised course in spinal afflictions and manipulation of the same.

A physiotherapist is a sort of qualified masseuse who is trained in pain relief and the correct sort of exercise for people with injuries, strains and post-operative problems.

I do not mean to denigrate physios in any way as they can be highly trained but the difference between them and a chiropractor is about the same as the difference between a doctor and a nurse.

i do not agree the school for Chiropractors is in bournemouth after looking at the xrays they decided i was leaning to the left because i had 1 leg longer longer than the other, no i was leaning because my back hurt, at no time was i asked what i did for a living,precision engineering,leaning forward all the time,this took 3mths, 2 visits to a physio,an exercise regime and the best advice of all alcohol is a better muscle relaxant than any drug but don,t drink enough to make you want to limbo dance, everybodies back problem is different don,t let your doctor fob you off with drugs, there must be an underlying cause which is we are all nuckledraggers

[bjphillips]

Having been a sufferer over 20 years ago with acute sciatica & now completely free of the problem I did write in a couple of months ago as to how this was achieved but it was recieved with amusemement by one person who reckoned it sounded like a fun thing.I was surprised someone with the problem didn't want to know more,knowing how painfull it can be at the time 20+ years ago I gave up on all the tablets & listening to those who reckoned I should sleep on the floor or put a board on the bed & bought a "Backswing",never looked back since!!! (lol)

[davenewellhome]

Hi BJ, sorry if it appeared I was ignoring your post about the inversion table, I have looked at them before and I do understand how it works and what it does for back problems. My reasons for not going down that route are pretty simple. I want to find out through the medical profession what is causing the problem this time, I've had it before but this is subtly different. I can't afford to buy an inversion table at present but if it becomes necessary I'll consider it. I don't have the space for one, we live in a very modest three bed mid terrace house. If I feel it would be beneficial I might build one but I'll follow the medical route first thanks. :->

 

D.

[enodreven]

Hi, For what it worth my doctor told me sometime ago that my Sciatica was due to a trapped nerve in my back and that in his opinion the best way to un-trap it was to stretch my spine. He suggested that the best way to do that was to lay flat on my back on the floor or bed and try to raise my legs as high as i could, you can use your hands to assist. This does stretch my back ? albeit it certainly isn't a miracle cure but it does seem to help me

 

 

[davenewellhome]

The generally held opinion is that what you describe is exactly the opposite of what you need to do. The nerves come out of the spine just in front of the discs and when a damaged disc is pressing on the nerve and causing the pain you need to "open" the spine up to relieve the pressure. On my first visit to physio 20 + years ago they gave me a set of exercises including a stretching one but its the opposite of yours in that you lie on your front and relax then do ten reps of pressing your upper body up with your arms, just like press ups but keeping your hips on the floor. I still do these exercises and they still do help.

 

d.

[enodreven]

Hi, Dave

 

That both seem strange, does anyone know what side of the disk the nerve gets trapped on as the method I have been doing surly opens the disk on the outside and closes it on the inside and yours does the complete oposite ?? or am i missing something ?

[GJH]

It isn't always the disks of the backbone which trap the sciatic nerve. The nerve passes through (or by can't remember just now) the hip joint and mis-alignment of the hip bones can trap the nerve.

 

That was the cause in my case - all as a result of having an unsuitable chair and the PC wrongly set up on the desk at work. It was fixed by a new chair, better positioning of the PC and chiropractic treatment.

 

Dave - I reckon you are going the right way by confirming the cause as that may well determine what treatment is appropriate and any treatment which might be inappropriate in your particular case.

 

Graham

[bjphillips]

Hi D you are right about needing a bit room to use the backswing the first time we went away to France for about 6 weeks I was beginning to get the old trapped nerve back abit so I made a wooden one that was functional,light ,came apart with a couple of wingnuts,could be used in the M/H & stored in the garage when on the move.Just occasional use of the real thing when at home means no more problems.

[michele]

which is the whole reason I set up this thread and the people who wear glasees thread I sat on his glasses because I couldn't walk with bloody sciatica...painful or what :-(

 

Bj whats a Back swing ????

[bjphillips]

Its basically an A frame with what looks like a seesaw.One stands on a bar when its upright,clips a rubberised clamp over the ankles & lays back on it.It,ll pivot until you are laying horizontal (flat on your back).by adjustments according to your height & weight you can make it continue on past the flat position until you are hanging upside down if you want to.You control the amount you want to go simply by slowly raising 1 or both arms above your head.It sounds drastic & a bit scary the first time you try it but soon get used to it.One only needs to position it so the head is slightly lower than the feet to take the weight off the spine this allows the cartilage between each segment to absorb fluids so it does its job.Initially you ask yourself if its doing any good because you feel like you've been stretched a bit but after a month or so at a couple of times a day for about 10 minutes a time you realize it is getting better,no more sudden pain where you almost drop to you knees.I was in such a bad way 20 years ago I was frightened to even put my left foot forward & had to have a hand to get out of bed or the car,this was as a result of the job I did in engineering for years.I do have details of the company who market the thing so if anybody is seriousely interested in contacting them I do have their phone number somewhere up in the loft if they cant find it under the name of "Backswing" on the net. *-)

[davenewellhome]

Thanks BJ. Alternatively Michele a "backswing" is the wind up to a golf shot ;-) .

 

Brian the discs are between the vertebrae in the rear most part of the spine. The nerves pass down through the forward section and come out through apertures in the vertebrae. Its a common misconception that the nerve bundle or "spinal cord" passes through the centre of the discs, it does not. If a disc lesion is the cause (which is what mine is believed to be) the nerve gets trapped between the disc and the vertebrae.

 

D.

[enodreven]

Hi, Dave

 

I sort of understand what you are saying ? but doesn't that still raise the question about the way in which we try to stretch the spine, it seems my way stretches it in an outward arc, your in an inward arc, and by virtue of the arc surly one side must be closing when the other is opening.

 

However the backswing bed appears to stretch it laterally, which I must say seems the most likely to succeed it the doctors recommend stretching at all. I had never heard of the "Backswing" prior to this thread ? and I must say that if my way of stretching doesn't work in the future I would certainly think seriously about buying one of those.

 

More to the point I really do wish you well and hope that you can discover what the cause of it is and find a workable solution, all the best

 

Brian

 

 

 

davenewell@home - 2007-07-01 9:19 AM

 

Thanks BJ. Alternatively Michele a "backswing" is the wind up to a golf shot ;-) .

 

Brian the discs are between the vertebrae in the rear most part of the spine. The nerves pass down through the forward section and come out through apertures in the vertebrae. Its a common misconception that the nerve bundle or "spinal cord" passes through the centre of the discs, it does not. If a disc lesion is the cause (which is what mine is believed to be) the nerve gets trapped between the disc and the vertebrae.

 

D.

[enodreven]

Hi, Dave perhaps I haven't explained it correctly and we are missunderstanding one another, as it appears from the link below my doctors suggestion is one of the accepted excersises ? have a look at the web link below ?

 

http://www.spine-health.com/topics/conserv/sciaex/sciaex03.html

 

 

 

davenewell@home - 2007-06-30 3:49 PM

 

The generally held opinion is that what you describe is exactly the opposite of what you need to do. The nerves come out of the spine just in front of the discs and when a damaged disc is pressing on the nerve and causing the pain you need to "open" the spine up to relieve the pressure. On my first visit to physio 20 + years ago they gave me a set of exercises including a stretching one but its the opposite of yours in that you lie on your front and relax then do ten reps of pressing your upper body up with your arms, just like press ups but keeping your hips on the floor. I still do these exercises and they still do help.

 

d.

[davenewellhome]

One important factor here Brian is that there are many causes of sciattica and back pain and that what is right for one person is not necessarily right for someone else. your doctor gave you forward stretching exercises, my physio (admittedly it was 26 or so years ago) advised the opposite type of stretching exercises and practical experience has shown they work, to some extent, for me.

 

Give me a poorly engine or gearbox and I can fix it, anything medical you need a doctor to accurately diagnose and recomend the right treatment (I'm still waiting >:-) ).

 

Michele, you started this thread, how's your sciattica going on?

 

D.

[chatterdog]

hi. Im new to this site - interesting thread this - there are many reasons back problems. As I know from experience having suffered for many years under a doctor who only liked the old ways e.g. x-rays and pain killers and physio. Well to cut a long story he retired and the new doc sent me for a scan. Now for years I have lost the feeling in my arms, have suffered cramping in my hands and arms( would lift cup to drink and arm and hand would go into spasim) hands were always freezing as if they had just come out of freezer,suffer probs with sciatica as well. Had scan in Dec 06 was given a follow-up appoint for april - end of Dec got letter changing appoint to 2nd Jan 07 went in was told condition really bad and recommended op. was told would be done within 26weeks.

Went in 13/6/07 had op on 14th which entailed taking bits of bone from hip and grafting onto spine in neck area. Am now home hip a bit sore neck fine hands for first time in years are warm. Whilst not promised full recovery in both arms at present I feel great just starting to wake up and feeling my arms are there intead of two unfeeling arms all for the sake of a bit of bone to release trapped nerves. I would reconmend op if offered - Im hoping that they do second op on lower back to stop trapping there as well - it has been discussed but had to have this one first as it could also help relieve the systoms of the lower back and legs.