webby1 Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 We had to replace a Shurflo pump with pressure switch as it was leaking probably from frost damage.This seems to be a common problem with Shurflo pumps and I don't think you can expect plastic to plastic surface to provide a seal without any kind of gasket. Why not buy a new pump I hear them say. Anyway we bought a new pump after trying some gasket cement/sealer. Why not buy a new pump I hear them say. Somewhere along the line testing it I had to replace the fuse BUT now the new pump does not have any power.It works fine when I connect it directly to12v and I cannot believe any wires have "burnt out along the way" So is there anything else that might have "tripped" when the fuse went or can now be faulty.I can't figure where the break might be. Thankfully it works great when connected to the cig lighter socket but I can't imagine where the fault might be. All suggestions appreciated............ apart from the one from Google that said there might be an electrical fault.😏 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webby1 Posted January 4, 2023 Author Share Posted January 4, 2023 Thanks for moving to new thread Keith..............if it's any help we now find that the toilet pump is not working. The water pump works fine when connected directly via the ciggy socket but somwhow the whole "pump" circuit is faulty but beyond the fuse I don't really know where to look. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Labby Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 Is there a button or switch on your control panel that needs to be pressed / turned on for pump operation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 Have you checked the fuse to make sure it hasn't blown a second time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webby1 Posted January 4, 2023 Author Share Posted January 4, 2023 Thanks already............yes checked the fuse again and dont mean to be disrespectful to @Labbybut it is switched on..................well the switch lights up ..................but it also lights up when the fuse is removed . So the switch doesn't seem a good guide to anything. But thanks for responses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Labby Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 Which model of Motorhome and what power control system does it have fitted , someone with the same model may have had a similar problem or know of an extra fuse being fitted somewhere in the pump power supply. Also is it possible that the earth (negative) side of the existing pump wiring connection is faulty ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webby1 Posted January 5, 2023 Author Share Posted January 5, 2023 Its an Adria Coral with the Shurflo pressure pump and Electrobloc 226. I'll check the negative side later and also the toilet pump which could be the break in the power supply. I can't imagine it's the actual wiring....something has become unplugged along the route from the electrobloc. All 12v working except the pumps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 It's commonplace on Continental European-built motorhomes for the water used to flush the toilet to come from the motorhome's main fresh-water tank and - in such a case - the toilet will not have its own integrated water reservoir with an electric submersible pump inside. If your Adria has the toilet system I have described above, if the SHURflo water-pump does not operate, the toilet's flushing system will also not operate, as there will be no water-pressure at the toilet and the water 'input valve' will not open. As experimentation has proved that the SHURflo pump itself is OK, there must be no 12V power reaching the pump where it is installed. The problem might be due to a loose connection , or a failed fuse, or a failed relay, or something else... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted January 6, 2023 Share Posted January 6, 2023 When you put in the toilet cassette he must reach a electric contact switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webby1 Posted January 8, 2023 Author Share Posted January 8, 2023 Thanks for all your replies........you're absolutely right @Labbyabout the negative side of the circuit...........here's the latest The main water pump and the toilet pump work when I earth them back to the battery.So I think that means all the live connections and fuses are working. Somewhere along the line "the earth has moved "☺️ So I thankfully can get them to work with a local earth or even running them back to the battery. But I'd really like to trace/repair the original earth for that circuit..............any ideas where could I start to look.\everything else 12v works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Labby Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 I think that you will find that the multi-block marked BL5 on the front of the EBL226 is involved with the pump positive and negative side of things and it could be worth checking it for tightness and good connections at its plug pins. The multi-block BL8 is also involved in the connection between the control panel and the pump negative side of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 Looking at the EBL226 circuit diagram, it appears to be the -ve feed to the pump which is switched (via the control panel switch, and in the EBL itself via a relay). Since there appears to be a lack of continuity in the -ve feed, I'd be inclined (carefully) to test for continuity between pin 1 of block 5 (the switched -ve outlet from the EBL) and earth (with the pump switched on at the panel, of course). If there is continuity, then any problem is downstream of the EBL; If you can't get continuity, then the issue would appear to be upstream of that connection, in either the EBL itself, or the control panel (and associated circuitry). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webby1 Posted January 12, 2023 Author Share Posted January 12, 2023 Thanks for your posts and information especially @Labbyand @Robinhood So here's the latest.....if I feed a negative to the control panel for the toilet flush then it works and the main pump also lights up with a bulb across the power terminals I presume that point one on block 5 of the EBL is the black and white cable. There is continuity between it and neutral/battery but when connected the pump has power and lights up. But this happens whether the pump is switched on or off. So I'm beginning to think the switch which lights up when on is not making a proper earth. Is that how it should work. It would seem easy to connect the battery neutral to the black and white cable (point 1 Block 5) and all should work. But I'd love a bit more guidance from those who understand more. Thanks in advance for your help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Labby Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 It is the neutral side that is switched on/off by the control panel using a switching relay (which may be faulty) that is inside the EBL(with its operating positive signal from the pump switch going through pin 2 block 8 ) so although connecting a neutral to pin 1 block 5 will work you are by-passing the EBL switching relay and completing the pump circuit , connecting the neutral into the toilet flush switch is also completing the circuit by-passing the EBL switching relay , but ,as you have found , the pump will not then be able to be switched off using the control panel. As Pin 1 on block 5 goes back to the neutral side of the pump it is the same as connecting the neutral direct to the pump from the battery . If you did want the EBL tested and / or repaired apuljackelectronics.co.uk should be able to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 I'm working from what I hope is the correct EBL226 wiring diagram (I downloaded it here:). https://www.campingtilbehor4u.no/bilder/artiklar/pdf/9926405.pdf It indicates that the switch on the control panel operates a relay, internal to the EBL, which drops the pump -ve feed to earth, thereby completing the circuit (it is otherwise "open"). I'm assuming from your description that you've bridged the output wire from block 5 pin 1 to earth? (and that doing this has brought the pump to life). It's not exactly what I suggested, (which was to test the pin on the EBL for continuity to earth) but it is just as effective a diagnostic. If I have understood, then you have eliminated wiring issues downstream of the EBL. That essentially leaves you looking upstream at: i) The 12V feed to the control panel (as you have lights, and if other functions are working, this seems unlikely to be the problem, but I don't know which panel you have, and thus where the feed comes from). ii) A failed switch (though if it lights it's unlikely but not impossible) iii) Wiring issues between the control panel and the EBL. The signal from the CP to the pump relay is on pin 2 of the EBL Block 8 - you might try gently reseating the block 8 connection. iv) A failed EBL internal pump relay. From your descriptions, I think this is probably the most likely cause. I'm not sure of the viability (I think the pins are rather small), but if it is viable think I'd try to test the output from the cable from the control panel to pin 2 of block 8 as above for 12V (with the pump switch on). If there is 12V, it's odds-on the relay has failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webby1 Posted January 15, 2023 Author Share Posted January 15, 2023 Thank you both @Labbyand @Robinhood for your fantastic replies. It's helped me understand a lot more about the circuitry....... but still learning. I found that as previously stated a connection to negative from the Bloc 5 pin 1 post makes both the pumps work.Strangely when the block is unplugged it does not work either direct from the EBL post or direct from the unplugged block connection. So without really understanding everything I have made a piggyback connection to battery negative off the wire to the Bloc 5 pin 1 (plugged in) and everything seems to work fine. It seems to bypass the control panel switch (that may well be part of the problem) but I might put an on/off switch on this new wire if I ever need to just switch the pump off. Anyway thanks so much for everything and all your inputs. Whilst not understanding the full circuitry I'd like to know that this working connection is acceptable and not potentially problematic or even dangerous. I can't see that it would be .................but I don't know for sure "Whatever you do Dougal don't press that bright red switch in front of you" Thanks so much for your replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 Again, your post is open to interpretation, so I hope I'm doing so correctly. The (unswitched) +ve feed to the pump circuit is also supplied by that Block 5 connection (on pin 6), so if you remove it from the EBL, regardless of the fact that you have (artificially) completed the -ve circuit, it will then not work the pump due to lack of that feed. I still stand by my potential diagnosis list above (and if this is the case, and given your experience, then what you've done, and adding a switch, should be OK - your risk, though 😉 ) (I suspect that, if it is a failed relay in the EBL, then it is probably a reasonably standard automotive 12v one, and thus a relatively easy fix, but that means removing and dissembling the EBL, which is not for the faint-hearted). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webby1 Posted January 16, 2023 Author Share Posted January 16, 2023 Ah your second paragraph explains the bit I couldn't understand and why the piggyback connection works. You have put my mind at rest about the new connection(my risk) and I may get the EBL checked when back in UK, but happy that at the moment all is working properly. Could I say you have been a real "Robinhood" 😃😃with your help and information and exactly what this Forum is best at. Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 ..didn't catch from your posts that you were currently travelling. In your circumstances, I would certainly run using the bypass until I could find time to fully check things out. You shouldn't need a switch in the interim (I don't like pump circuits without one, but they're only really necessary if you're going to drain down, and even then with micro-switched rather than pressure-switched systems only if you leave the taps open). The fuse for the circuit is in the EBL and in the +ve feed you're still using, so the wiring is protected, just make sure the temporary additional wire you've put in isn't really "skinny" (the current passing isn't huge, though). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Labby Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 webby1 If you intend to get the EBL fixed when you get home , as a temporary measure , you could remove the pump fuse on the EBL if you need to turn the pump off during your trip . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webby1 Posted January 16, 2023 Author Share Posted January 16, 2023 Once again thanks to you both for your time and information and for the link for EBL repairs As I said, all is now working and I think I'll just leave it as it is. There are lots of things on this van that are what I call "imaginative solutions" Happy travels Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webby1 Posted March 24, 2023 Author Share Posted March 24, 2023 Now another issue with the pump and I hope it's OK to tag @Robinhood and @Labbybecause you were so knowledgeable and helpful in the previous posts. So I wired the pump as I outlined above but it seemed to randomly shudder and judder despite adjusting the central screw that supposedly would solve that problem. Anyway I eventually deduced that it only happened when we were on EHU and that there were almost 14v at the pump at that time.Only 12v when on battery power and all working well. I presume my new rewiring has somehow bypassed a regulator/stabiliser inside the EBL. So what I think I need is something to reduce/stabilise the pump input to 12v and 4.5 amps for the pump to work properly.I have looked at Various step down adaptors but need one with at least 4.5 amps output. I hope I am on the right track but hopefully someone can point me in the right direction for a simple fix before the pump shakes itself loose. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 I don't believe there's any additional function in the EBL pump circuit. Though nominally 12V, designed for use in motorhomes/RVs the pump should work entirely satisfactorily at voltages up to 14.n volts (a fairly common situation for electrics running from either the alternator or EHU). It's therefore somewhat difficult to diagnose, but the following might be relevant. The increase in voltage is likely to provide slightly more "umph" to the pump, and this might take the system over a threshold (without pump damage implications). If the misbehaving is intermittent, you may have a slight leak somewhere that is exposed by the marginally extra power. Having had frost damage originally, that is certainly a possibility. You might also check that everything was fully tightened after replacement. Typically, problems of this type cause the pump to "burp" from time to time. If the misbehaving is relatively constant on the higher voltage, I'd check how the pump has been mounted. Conventionally (and particularly if mounted on something that would constitute a sounding board) these pumps are mounted via screws through rubber isolators. Check that they exist, and also that they've not been overtightened (they should have little more than any slack taken up, such that the pump can be manipulated slightly). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Labby Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 If you do not already have one fitted , an water expansion tank could help with a more steady and smoother flow ( Fiamma list them for 12v water pump systems but there could be others) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 25, 2023 Share Posted March 25, 2023 Yes, Whale offers a fairly basic 'surge damper' (about £35) and SHURflo markets a more sophisticated adjustable 'accumulator' (about £65). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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