david lloyd Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 My 2006 Peugeot based 2.8 HDI Pioneer Renoir has a (new) Yuasa 120ah starter battery and two Halfords 115ah leisure batteries. End of last year I had the single stage charger built into the Sergent EC700 unit changed by Apuljack Electronics to a six stage charger. Recently fitted new vents to the leisure batteries (located under near side settee) as none had been fitted previously and thought I would just see how they were charging. The result is that they are charging via the on board charger and/or my solar panel and Epever MPPT controller but do not seem to be charging from the alternator. The engine battery is, of course, being charged by the alternator but is not connected to the (single output) solar controller. There is a facility to switch the Sergent charger to the engine battery when on EHU. This setup means the engine battery is not getting any charge when stood and not on EHU. It also means the leisure batteries are not being charged whilst driving. I’m not too worried about the engine battery as when we are away we do tend to drive to visit places locally and when parked at home between trips can easily charge it via a EHU. However, we do try to use Temporary Holiday Sites (no EHU for leisure batteries) and rely totally on the solar even in winter months. It would be reassuring to have the leisure batteries charged by the alternator when driving to help keep them topped up on a trip away. Not sure if the Renoir originally was wired with alternator charging to the leisure battery which has stopped working. If not what would be the best/simplest option to enable this? David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Labby Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 Are you sure it is a Sargent EC700 PSU that is fitted ? as I thought that the EC700 PSU normally used a separate 3 stage charger (not a built in one) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 The earlier discussion about David's motorhome and battery charging https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/topic/54219-replacing-sargent-battery-charger/#comment-693159 (There's no doubt whatsoever that the Renoir's original specification would have included a capability for the motor's alternator to charge the leisure battery while the motorhome was being driven.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted March 14, 2023 Author Share Posted March 14, 2023 Labby, sorry it is EC200 PSU700. Thank you Derek for confirming the leisure batteries should be being charged by the alternator. When I tested it I had just taken it off EHU so the batteries were resting at about 13.8v. With the engine running I would have expected this figure to rise to +14v but it didn’t move. I may have to check once more with the vehicle off EHU for a couple of days or put some drain on the batteries before trying with the engine running again. If it does not appear to be charging them should I be looking at a fuse somewhere? David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 David, Does your EC200 display panel say something like "System disabled - Engine running" when you start the engine? My AutoTrail EC200 certainly does. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted March 14, 2023 Author Share Posted March 14, 2023 Hi Keith yes when the engine is running the display panel switches off automatically and displays that message. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 Thanks for confirming that. So as the unit recognises the engine is running maybe ask Apuljack if it should still work after their modification? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted March 14, 2023 Author Share Posted March 14, 2023 Not quite sure what is in your mind Keith - are you saying that the alternator charging would normally go via the PSU but as the display panel shuts down on startup this can’t happen? David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Labby Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 There should be a fuse for leisure battery charging from the alternator near the split charge relay (s) which are often found close to the starter battery ,( there should be a block of 3 or 4 fuses ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 10 minutes ago, david lloyd said: Not quite sure what is in your mind Keith - are you saying that the alternator charging would normally go via the PSU but as the display panel shuts down on startup this can’t happen? David Yes and No! Yes the alternator charging should go via the PSU so I am wondering if Apuljack have disabled it with their mods??? And No as the system disabled message means that no loads will operate as the EMC relay will switch all outputs off. To test turn any 12 V light on then start the engine, the light should go off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted March 14, 2023 Author Share Posted March 14, 2023 Hah! After posting this message I’m going to do an internet search for ‘Homes for the Bewildered’ near next! Thought I would do a proper check so turned off the EHU and dis connected the solar panel before putting lights etc on to lower the battery. With the multimeter on started the engine and, instead of it jumping to +14v as I had expected, the meter slowly rose to 14v in about three minutes with the engine running at about 1800 rpm. So, yes it is charging via the alternator but doesn’t instantly jump to max charge as I know the engine battery does. Thank you for your input - I’m off for a lie down now. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 On 3/14/2023 at 1:42 PM, david lloyd said: Hah! After posting this message I’m going to do an internet search for ‘Homes for the Bewildered’ near next! Thought I would do a proper check so turned off the EHU and dis connected the solar panel before putting lights etc on to lower the battery. With the multimeter on started the engine and, instead of it jumping to +14v as I had expected, the meter slowly rose to 14v in about three minutes with the engine running at about 1800 rpm. So, yes it is charging via the alternator but doesn’t instantly jump to max charge as I know the engine battery does. Thank you for your input - I’m off for a lie down now. David David, The fact that the habitation battery voltage does not closely track the engine battery voltage suggests that the connection is resistive, or perhaps that your habitation battery is faulty and is drawing excessive current when the engine is started. There should not be any significant resistance in the split charge circuit, unless it has been deliberately introduced. To eliminate the possibility of a faulty battery, you could repeat your test with each habitation battery seperately. If results are similar, then examine split charge circuit for poor connections etc. This circuit includes the connection between the starter battery negative and the habitation negative. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted March 16, 2023 Author Share Posted March 16, 2023 Thanks for the information Alan.Thought I would do as you suggested. The engine battery certainly goes up to 14.4v within seconds of starting the engine which is what I would expect to see. The battery is a new Yuasa 110ah (see earlier thread Derek has highlighted above). When I got the Renoir last year the previous owner had had two new (matched pair) Halfords 115ah batteries but I noticed that battery 2 was simply linked to battery 1 via appropriate cables - +ive to +ive and -ive to -ive. My understanding of twin batteries was that this was wrong so I simply removed the +ive feeds (to/from the habitation side) from the terminal on battery 1 and attached them to the +ive terminal of battery 2 - I had read this was the correct way of wiring two leisure batteries so that power is being taken from both equally and both are being charged equally. So, I disconnected battery two altogether putting the habitation leads all on battery 1. On startup - nothing happened - no charging. Swapped everything to battery 2 and tried again - no charging. Next I checked every fuse related to the batteries and charging in the engine bay, the PSU and next to the habitation batteries. Most were a little corroded and although intact were intermittent for continuity so I took the opportunity to clean up all the blades before putting them back. Tried again and started getting a few odd readings - display panel warning low battery at 9.8v yet the multimeter showed 12.9v at the terminals! The Eberspacher display also had a high pitched noise and, as I touched the five pin (four wires) connector linked to the -ive terminal the noise stopped and the battery voltage came back up to 12.9v on the display. Breaking the connector I could see the pins were also a little corroded so cleaned those up and put it back together. There is also evidence of the male part of the connector getting warm at some time as it has melted a little - no signs of burning though. Now there was a charge showing but just moving the connector about this would go off and come back on so I guess this is the culprit. I put everything back as I had it and although it charges it can easily be stopped by moving the connector and wiring into it and the charging is still limited to 13.8v. The connector concerned has four wires: red, brown, brown with blue stripe and white with red stripe. One other point. I’m always aware when buying a motorhome from a dealer you can never be sure how long the batteries have been stood with no charge. The Renoir at least had a solar panel so should have been putting some charge in if it had been stored outside. Doing the above checks I noticed the Halford batts are not sealed but the plugs are covered by large labels. I recently revived the battery on my wife’s little fiesta (which showed signs of difficulty cranking over) by topping up the cells which were quite low then putting it on my Ctek charger set to recond. Not had any problems since. So my next task is to check all the battery levels and top up if necessary then charge them individually with the Ctek - as much for my own reassurance as anything. Obviously I also need to do something about the connector block too but I don’t have a spare at the moment. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 David, I am not fully understanding about this Eberspacher connector. Is there a possibility that the habitation battery charging current is returning to chassis via this connector, and the Eberspacher mountings? If so, little wonder that it is getting warm. You should have a direct cable from the habitation battery negative (or shunt if fitted) to chassis, or starter (engine) battery negative. In my opinion the effect of different methods of paralleling two adjacent habitation batteries will be minimal, when the connecting cables are as large as the main runs, and are short. My PVC has a battery under each front seat. This is a different proposition, which has only recently been addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted March 17, 2023 Author Share Posted March 17, 2023 Hi Alan - the four wires in this connector (two to +ive terminal two to -ive terminal then go directly to the PSU and seems to be the 12v supply. Everything on board is then fed via the PSU. Trying it this morning the connector is definitely not making full contact as on start up there was no charging again until I pushed it firmly together again. The charger came in and took the battery voltage from 12.8v to 13.45v. Left on tickover it steadily climes by .01v every 25 seconds or so and expect it will do so until it reaches +14v like before. I wouldn’t say the connector is hot but it has been warm enough to melt it a little at the bottom. Doesn’t feel warm now. I should also add that although the solar panel is not connected the solar regulator can still read the battery voltage and this shows 14.1v David Also checked website and the HLB681 batteries are sealed lead acid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 I have had a look at the relevant sections of the Sargent EC200 system manual. The hub of the system is the PSU 2007 unit. At section 3.3 of the manual, a battery capacity of between 75Ah and 120Ah is suggested, with a battery fuse rated at 20A. The current installed battery capacity is 230Ah. The battery connections to the PSU 2007 are via a 6 way connector, with 2 ways each for habitation (leisure) battery, vehicle (starter) battery, and earth. Presumably this connector is not the 5 way item that has signs of overheatingand is the 5 way connector really necessary? The increase in battery capacity, will as evidenced by the failing connector will place the split charging circuit under stress. If the 230Ah habitation battery is discharged to the generally advised maximum of 50% DOD, recharge time will be protracted. This is because the present installation will not be able to achieve and maintain a C/10 recharging current. Without full knowledge of the installation, particularly installed cable sizes, it is difficult to make suggestions for improvment. However the now deceased Allan Evans did report an increase in charging current, after fitting an external split charge relay in similar circumstances. If fitted in parallel, such a relay would immediately remove a large proportin of the charging current from the PSU 2007. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted March 20, 2023 Author Share Posted March 20, 2023 Thanks Alan. Just to clarify - the six way connector you refer to in the manual is positioned at the base of the PSU (which is installed in an overhead locker) but the five way connector near the habitation battery has the four cables I mentioned previously and appear to be the 12v supply to the PSU and the charging cables back to the batteries. Over the last few days I disconnected the batteries and put them on my Ctek charger using the reconditioning function. Have reconnected them and all is working (the connector is not getting warm but obviously had at some point) with the 240v charger operating as it should, the solar charger working as it should and the alternator charging too - I think I have improved the fit of the connector to ensure a better connection. Although there are only four cables in the 5 way connector another (red) cable has been spliced in before the connector block. It’s always difficult to know what a previous owner has done/has had done but I think the connector is there to simply extend the length of the cables. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.