Simon64 Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 We have a new to us MH with a plated weight limit of 3550...my question is does that mean a C1 is needed to drive it (OK for us - we are oldies) or is that the case only if the actual weight goes over 3.5t e. my son can borrow it so long as he keeps payload down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayc Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 Yes you need a C1 licence to drive it [3500kg -7500kg]. It should be road taxed as a private - HGV [P-HGV], what does the V5c say the revenue weight is? You could get it downplated to 3500kg by the likes of SvTech https://www.svtech.co.uk/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 I agree with Ray, you must hold a C1 licence to drive it. It is based on plated weight and actual weight is irrelevant. If you found you needed more payload you could possibly get it up-plated to nearer the combined axle limits, ie nearer 4,100 kg. Again as a paper exercise by the likes of SV Tech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 The answers above are correct as long as that is the final stage plate. It appears to be that for the original Ford (Camper) Chassis, and the convertor may have added a second plate rated at 3500kg. (Frankly, given the various legislation implications, for a difference of only 50kg I'd be quite surprised if there wasn't a later, stage 2 plate). Many Fiat Ducatos, for instance, leave the factory plated at 3650kg, but are downplated by the manufacturer to 3500kg. The latest plate added is the relevant one. Mine has 3; a Stage 1 at 3650 (Fiat), Stage 2 at 3850 (when the Al-Ko chassis was added), and a Stage 3 at 3500 (when Hymer added the conversion). The 3500 is the one that legally applies. Which motorhome is it - research should indicate what the convertor should have plated it at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 I note from documentation that Swift (for instance) released some of their Ford models (e.g. Voyager) as both a 3500 and 3550 version. 😮 That said, there is certainly a possibility that it doesn't have an additional plate at 3500. Subject to the legal capability to run at the lower MAM, then it would probably be possible to downplate the vehicle by 50kg if it should prove useful. It would have an effect on VED (increase it) but prove useful for avoiding the various downsides for vehicles over 3500kg used on the continent. Any (converter's) CoC accompanying the vehicle should indicate the MAM when it left their (rather than Ford's) factory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon64 Posted March 2 Author Share Posted March 2 Thanks folks - forgot I could look at V5 - there it says PLG, Max permissible mass 3500kg, MIRO 2927kg - latter is very specific and about what I would expect from the various numbers in sales stuff (considering it has an auto box) although the current similar offering is manual only and on a Peugeot chassis. The 2927 is rather specific - could they have weighed it at the end of the line? Its a Trigano product. I cannot find any other plates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laimeduck Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Probably not relevant .... but my Benimar was upgraded to 3850 by SVTEC and the uprated plate is a plastic stick on one in the lower passenger footwell.It is white writing on a black background, so is not immediately obvious omn the black plastic footwell. (I have 3 plates in total, one rivrted in the engine compartment, one riveted on the bodywork near the habitation door and the plastic one in the footwell). Jeremy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 8 hours ago, Simon64 said: Thanks folks - forgot I could look at V5 - there it says PLG, Max permissible mass 3500kg, MIRO 2927kg ... And the good news there is you do NOT need a class C1 licence to drive it so your son is OK. The 2927 kg MIRO is also good news as that means your UNLADEN weight is obviously lower and well below the restricted speed limit threshold of 3,050 kg. Assuming the 2007 on your VIN plate is something near the year of registration then it is unlikely you will have a second VIN plate but the downplating may be just by a sticker as Jeremy has said above. My 2004 AT has been up-plated by AT at manufacture by a simple sticker down behind the RH headlight and is not immediately obvious. Keith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 The 2007 is a "homologation" marking, not anything to do with build date (my 2018 'van has a similar 2007 mark). If it has been registered as PLG, then it should* have a second plate somewhere to support that. (anyone officially inspecting the vehicle will go by the plating, not by the tax grouping). *As above, this is not always a plate, or it's not always immediately visible, and there have been many occurrences of such plates/stickers being missing for various reasons. There should be a converter's CoC (though that might not have been passed on with the paperwork) which will give the definitive position post conversion - I'd still want a 3500kg plate, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laimeduck Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 55 minutes ago, laimeduck said: Probably not relevant .... but my Benimar was upgraded to 3850 by SVTEC and the uprated plate is a plastic stick on one in the lower passenger footwell.It is white writing on a black background, so is not immediately obvious omn the black plastic footwell. (I have 3 plates in total, one rivrted in the engine compartment, one riveted on the bodywork near the habitation door and the plastic one in the footwell). Jeremy Ahem! - in my case it could be quite useful to show the 3500Kg plate on the body work to an official eg Gendarme if I strayed into a 3500 zone. Perish the thought! More honestly though, I do have the certificate from SVTEC showing 3850kg Jeremy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 12 hours ago, Simon64 said: Thanks folks - forgot I could look at V5 - there it says PLG, Max permissible mass 3500kg, MIRO 2927kg - latter is very specific and about what I would expect from the various numbers in sales stuff (considering it has an auto box) although the current similar offering is manual only and on a Peugeot chassis. The 2927 is rather specific - could they have weighed it at the end of the line? Its a Trigano product. I cannot find any other plates. It's very unlikely to have been weighed at the factory, and even if it was there may well be dealer fitted options. It's best regarded as a guide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 A VIN-plated gross vehicle weight (GVW) of 3550kg for Ford Transit-based motorhomes is mentioned a number of times on-line and I notice that it came up on this forum in 2015 relating to a Chausson Welcome 728EB. https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/topic/37268-gvm/ As will be seen from the photo below this was a substantial coachbuilt model and Chausson marketed it with a GVW of 3500kg (and a very small usable payload) or 4100kg. The TRIGANO group owns 23 motorhome/camper brands, so it might be helpful to know the make/model/build-year of Simon's motorhome (I believe it would have been built post-2016 as "Panther Diesel" is on its data-plate). As Trigano motorhome converters are reputable 'main-stream' companies, I'd expect another data-plate (or sticker) should have been added (somewhere!!!) by the converter to show a different GVW to the 3550kg on the Ford data-plate.. The UK driving licence Category B entitlement (basic 'car' licence) restricts a driver to vehicles with a GVW not exceeding 3500kg. This is a rigid GVW maximum, so a driver holding just a Category B licence is not legally entitled to drive a vehicle with a GVW of 3550kg (or even a vehicle with a GVW of 3501kg). What is on a vehicle's V5 registration certificate does not alter the driving licence rules. Consequently, a motorhome registered with the DVLA in the Private/Light Goods class (vehicles with a GVW not exceeding 3500kg) but carrying a single VIN-plate with 3550kg GVW on it, is in the wrong class and should be registered in the Private HGV class that covers vehicles with a GVW over 3500kg (and that need at least a Category C1 licence to legally drive them). It's not that rare for motorhomes to be DVLA-registered in the wrong taxation class, with the usual error involving vehicles with an over-3500kg GVW being assigned to the Private/Light Goods class. The most extreme example I can think of involved a secondhand 2003 Frankia I700BD privately imported into the UK from Germany in 2019. That Frankia model is a large A-class design on a tandem rear-axle chassis and a GVW of 4500kg - so definitely appropriate for the Private HGV taxation class - but (almost certainly due to the importer's casual form-filling) it was registered by the DVLA in the Private/Light Goods class. The Frankia's UK owner explained (not on this forum) how straightforward the importing exercise had been, but must have felt a mite foolish when it was pointed out that he was unnecessarily paying an extra £100 per year as a result of the UK registration error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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