Mike99 Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 Recently obtained an Autocruise Starburst 2005. It’s in excellent condition apart from the heating and hot water system. I am confused(very), with the eberspacher and how it all works. It has a combitronic DeLux for control, and a calorifier for water heating. Hope I’m correct so far. Can someone tell me how water gets into the Calorifier? Does putting water into the fresh water tank also top up the calorifier in some way? Nothing in this area works at the moment, but it did all work on 240v but not on diesel. At the moment the combitronic control panel has all LEDS flashing in turn several times before rebooting itself over and over again. The batteries are all fine and fully charged. Any help appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 (edited) Hi What model is the Combitronic is it CT03C, CT03M, CT05C, CT05M ? Is the panel same as attached ? Photo of panel and unit would help Regards Edited March 19 by onecal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike99 Posted March 19 Author Share Posted March 19 Yes that's the panel. I 'think' it's a CT05M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 Hi Photo of panel etc' may be of help Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike99 Posted March 19 Author Share Posted March 19 (edited) On 2nd thoughts, i think it's a CT05MD as its a DeLux version. Edited March 19 by Mike99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 (edited) 20 minutes ago, onecal said: Hi Photo of panel etc' may be of help Regards Check you have (12v) full voltage to your unit . A bad relay may sometimes cause your common issue of working on 240/230v only Send on a few photos of your unit Regards Edited March 19 by onecal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike99 Posted March 19 Author Share Posted March 19 Sorry to be ignorant, but what is the 'Unit'? Although it did work on 240v, that no longer works either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 Mike, my 2006 Pioneer Renoir has a Combitronic system. Firstly, the hot water calorifier is filled from the fresh water system. After (or whilst) you fill the water tank switch the pump on and open the hot taps in turn - this will draw water into the calorifier. The tap will spurt a little initially but gradually run properly. The hot tank is now full. I also had a problem with the Combitronic not firing up and took it to an Eberspacher service agent who found poor 12v supply and recommended new leisure batteries. On our next trip out the fault recurred and, as I was near another Eberspacher service agent, took it in again. He also found poor 12v supply which was obviously not the batteries but traced it to a faulty connector block at the leisure batteries which supplied the Combitronic panel. This connector was removed and the wiring fitted directly to the batteries - I have had no further issues with it starting up on either diesel or 240v. Just to add that the 240v side also depends on a good 12v supply to the control panel. If your batteries are in good condition I would next check any joints/connections along the 12v supply. Hope this helps, David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike99 Posted March 19 Author Share Posted March 19 (edited) Thanks for the help. Now I know how the water fills. If I'm on 240v, how does the water get heated? On the other problem. I am taking the MH to someone next week who is going to have a look at things and hopefully can figure out whats wrong. Once again thanks. Edited March 19 by Mike99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 Hi Just as David quite rightly informed you as there is quite a draw on start up .Quite often the voltage drop is caused by the connector block and also the relay pins that also get contaminated, So replacing the relay and cleaning the connector should give you enough power assuming your leisure batteries are good. Hopefully a heads up for your friend you are taking it to next week UNIT = Eberspacher and Combitronic de lux Hope all works out well Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 An Eberspacher Combitronic operating guide can be found here https://www.butlertechnik.com/downloads/Combitronic_operating_guide.pdf There's a LOT of on-line stuff about this system when fitted to Autocruise motorhomes, and a GOOGLE-search using "autocruise" "eberspacher" "combitronic" site:https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/ as the GOOGLE search-term should retrieve relevant discussions on the Out&AboutLive forums. This 2023 O&AL forum thread related to a 2005 Starburst and includes a photo showing the Combitronic control-panel. https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/topic/61373-starburst-2005-no-hot-water/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike99 Posted March 20 Author Share Posted March 20 Thanks again,. I will update this after i've seen the person next week as it might help others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 11 hours ago, Mike99 said: Thanks for the help. Now I know how the water fills. If I'm on 240v, how does the water get heated? On the other problem. I am taking the MH to someone next week who is going to have a look at things and hopefully can figure out whats wrong. Once again thanks. Just to clarify Mike, as far as I know the 240v works like a domestic water cylinder element - there is a short element inside the calorifier - but this does rely on signals from the 12v control panel to switch it on/off. If there is a voltage drop to the control panel (and the constant recycling of the panel on start up was a symptom I had) then this could be the reason for it not operating on 240v. Just one other point, my 240v side is wired into a fused spur near the Eberspacher unit under the bed - if yours is it may also be worth checking that fuse. Hope you get sorted. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike99 Posted March 27 Author Share Posted March 27 (edited) Thanks David. Now been to my 'man who knows things'. I thought my batteries were OK and we all know what thought did! He first diagnosed that my leisure batteries were not being charged when engine running. This was fixed by cleaning the fuses and holders that sit behind the relays under the bonnet. There are 2 batteries, one is a car battery and the other seems quite old. They are different amps, so 2 problems. I have ordered 2-100amp. leisure batteries to get that side of things fixed. My man tells me that when thats done, the eberspacher may well work without the 240v. If it doesn't, he will have a look at that side of things but not hopefull as spares (if required), seem none existant. I will update on progress. Edited March 27 by Mike99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike99 Posted April 2 Author Share Posted April 2 On 19/03/2024 at 22:01, david lloyd said: Mike, my 2006 Pioneer Renoir has a Combitronic system. Firstly, the hot water calorifier is filled from the fresh water system. After (or whilst) you fill the water tank switch the pump on and open the hot taps in turn - this will draw water into the calorifier. The tap will spurt a little initially but gradually run properly. The hot tank is now full. I also had a problem with the Combitronic not firing up and took it to an Eberspacher service agent who found poor 12v supply and recommended new leisure batteries. On our next trip out the fault recurred and, as I was near another Eberspacher service agent, took it in again. He also found poor 12v supply which was obviously not the batteries but traced it to a faulty connector block at the leisure batteries which supplied the Combitronic panel. This connector was removed and the wiring fitted directly to the batteries - I have had no further issues with it starting up on either diesel or 240v. Just to add that the 240v side also depends on a good 12v supply to the control panel. If your batteries are in good condition I would next check any joints/connections along the 12v supply. Hope this helps, David David, as you seem to know far more than I do about this system, can you tell me how to set the hot water temperature? The Combitronic Control Panel has a temperature setting which implies its for Heating & Hot Water and has a maximum setting of 45c. The Black knob on the Calorifier can also be used for temperature control (or so I've been told). Can you possibly enlighten me as to whats going on and what works what? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 Mike, although you can select either heating, hot water or both using the buttons for heating and water at the top of your panel the temp selected will be the same for both. This is set using the up/down arrows when you have any of the heating modes on your display. We have not found this to be a problem as the actual temp of the water at the tap can be regulated by using the mixer facility - even on the shower head. As you say, there is a thermostatic control on the hot water tank but I believe this works in the same way - that is, whatever it is set at that is the same for heating or water. So, set the thermostat on the tank at the temp you would like the hot water at (bearing in mind you can use the mixer taps to regulated how hot it is at the sink or shower) then use the temp setting on the control panel to set the heating temp inside the van. Ours is not particularly accurate and we find that if the panel is set at 26c for the heating the blower usually switches off with the van at a comfortable 18c - you just need to experiment till you find what suits you. I think that if you set the water temp too low on the tank thermostat it just takes longer for the heating to get up to temp inside the van. It’s probably also worth mentioning that our system has had what looks like a domestic (Honeywell) thermostat fitted at some time. Not sure why but it may be that the black Duco knob I think you are referring to either stopped functioning or does not operate well. The replacement has easy to read settings - currently at 60c as you will see in the picture. Hope all this helps. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 Just for more info Mike, there was a thread on here by Kevin915 dated 7 April 2023 (sorry, not sure how to post link but if you use the search facility using kevin915 you will find it) in which he had trouble getting his water to heat on a 2005 Autocruise Starburst and this did indeed turn out to be the black Duco thermostatic valve. He was looking for a replacement but there was no update to say how he got on. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike99 Posted April 2 Author Share Posted April 2 Thanks David, I will look into what you have told me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike99 Posted April 14 Author Share Posted April 14 David, Unfortunatley, my thermostat is difficult to get at as it's between the Fan and Calorifier. I will assume that whoever did it like this, set it at a sensible temperature. I can set the temperature of the water coming out of the taps by using the black knob(DUCO), on the calorifier(see below). This is basicaly a valve which mixes hot & cold water. Turn it anti-clockwise to increase the hot water, clockwise to increase the cold water. I have included this paragrah and picture in the hope it may help someone else who gets confused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 On 02/04/2024 at 15:35, david lloyd said: Just for more info Mike, there was a thread on here by Kevin915 dated 7 April 2023 (sorry, not sure how to post link but if you use the search facility using kevin915 you will find it) in which he had trouble getting his water to heat on a 2005 Autocruise Starburst and this did indeed turn out to be the black Duco thermostatic valve. He was looking for a replacement but there was no update to say how he got on. David The following link is to the Kevin915 thread you've mentioned. https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/topic/61373-starburst-2005-no-hot-water/ Regarding posting a link to a forum thread, I just 'copy and paste' the thread's URL into the posting I am composing, or 'drag and drop' the URL into my posting. (It's worth noting that the Out&AboutLive forum's SEARCH facility won't retrieve archived threads. Archiving takes place one year after the date of a thread's most recent posting that, where the Kevin915 thread is concerned, was April 10, 2023. So - although the SEARCH would have retrieved the thread on 2 April, 2024 - it would not have retrieved it after April 10, 2024.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike99 Posted Monday at 10:19 Author Share Posted Monday at 10:19 Just to close off this thread. After trying several people in a attempt to get the eberspacher working on 12v, even an eberspacher dealer, I have been told by everyone I've contacted, that the system is to old to repair. They all say this, dispite none of them looking at it. So I have decided to try no further and just put up with the fact it dosen't work using12v. Thanks everyone for your contributions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted Monday at 12:08 Share Posted Monday at 12:08 Hi I am sorry to hear people are just not bothered to repair it for you Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted Monday at 15:31 Share Posted Monday at 15:31 It’s quite disheartening Mike - the first Eberspacher repairer we went to with this problem diagnosed low voltage and sold me a pair of new leisure batteries. Next trip out the fault was still there. As I mentioned earlier we found another Eberspacher repairer near where we were staying and this guy proved to be more thorough. He used a laptop to interrogate the heaters ECU for an error code which came up as low 12v feed. Further investigation revealed the poor six way connector next to the leisure batteries and once this was removed and the wiring to the Combitronic connected direct to the batteries all was fine and had remained so. They may very well be correct saying the unit itself is too old to repair but my example shows the fault was nothing to do with the unit. The first Eberspacher agent was a large auto electrician’s but the second traded mostly on regassing air conditioning - just goes to show some people are not onlY more capable but are also more interested in solving a customers problem. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike99 Posted Tuesday at 09:17 Author Share Posted Tuesday at 09:17 I did explain that everything works on 240v therefore the 'devices' must be ok. I put in 2 new leisure batteries, things still not working, so logically, I assume it's in the wiring somewhere. I might try again to find someone who will look at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted Tuesday at 14:15 Share Posted Tuesday at 14:15 Yes a simple check to see if it's actually getting DC and good voltage from the batteries is the first check and its associate wiring and relays and connections Note make sure to check the panel itself and its connections at the rear (see attachment) Of course it is repairable , the point that no one wants to repair it is another issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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