Fogstar 460AH Lithium Update

[John52]

3 minutes ago, Robinhood said:

continuing to post the same content that has already been moderated away for reasons that have been explained .

 

19 minutes ago, Robinhood said:

When installed properly, and in line with Fiat advice, the wiring for auxiliary battery(ies) will be almost entirely separate to that for the vehicle battery.

Does it have a separate connection to the alternator?

All the installations I have seen draw power from the existing battery wiring, as mine does, and mine has been working fine for 14 years over 2 different vehicles

[John52]

18 minutes ago, Robinhood said:

I must admit that if I were a moderator here, you would now be banned!

Moderation isn't an easy job, and I don't always agree with moderator's decisions on the various forums I frequent, but the forums aren't mine, and I wouldn't envy any moderator their task, so I accept their decisions.

Regardless of whether I agree or not with a posters point of view, continuing to post the same content that has already been moderated away for reasons that have been explained is not something I, for one, find acceptable.

The mods have my support.

Whatever I post on here isn't going to make a scrap of difference to the next election etc

I just want to make it clear why its down to us to ensure the batteries we buy are not counterfeit and won't catch fire.

[John52]

15 hours ago, Robinhood said:

I'm glad I've not let you anywhere near my 'van electrics.  😉

Thats understandable.  My installation works well but its not idiot proof 😉

For instance the batteries connect in parallel when you turn on the ignition, so if you completely flattened the secondary batteries they could sap the power from the main battery and prevent you getting started.  Unless you flick the switch I have installed on the dashboard to cut the power to the relay and keep the batteries separate until the engine starts.

[Robinhood]

19 hours ago, John52 said:

But the batteries cannot draw more than the alternator can produce, and it has its own regulator to stop it overloading, so the wiring must be capable of that?

They can't (and they won't). The charging rate for lead-acid batteries is largely determined by their current acceptance which varies by state of charge, rather than alternator power and even at a maximum is going to be much less than, say, the 180amp output of an alternator.  (which is sized to support battery charging and all other potential simultaneous electrical loads on the vehicle).

That current acceptance is, to some extent, proportional to the battery Ah, so requirement would increase by adding additional battery load. (Though, IMO, in many cases you'd have to add a lot to cause significant problems). Hence the recommendation for a more powerful alternator for uprated/auxiliary batteries.

(Just to note, the current acceptance of a Lithium battery can be much higher across the charge state range, to an extent that it is easily possible to challenge existing wiring, fusing and alternator output. That's why in many circumstances a simple drop-in replacement is not a good idea).

19 hours ago, John52 said:

As I say, I am not aware of Ducato motorhomes with a bigger alternator than mine - which is the standard Bosch 180 amp.  Can you say which have them and do they have a bigger wiring loom to cope with it?

Over the years alternators of various ratings have been available on the Ducato. Perusing current specs for the UK and Germany indicates that 180, 200, and 220 Ah can be specified. The UK "AWE Conversion Pack" for instance, which could/would underpin many conversions, includes the 220Ah Alternator, uprated 105Ah battery, and the converter's socket. 

19 hours ago, John52 said:

Does it have a separate connection to the alternator?

Yes and no. The fusebox on the battery acts as both a concentrator and and isolator for the various circuits. Each circuit is protected by a midi or mega fuse, and properly installed auxiliary batteries should go on a/the 50A fused connection.  I would think the mega fuse used to protect the vehicle battery to alternator circuit is sized for the demand from the starter, rather than the charging demand from the alternator as the latter, as per above, is essentially self-limiting.

3 hours ago, John52 said:

Thats understandable.  My installation works well but its not idiot proof 😉

Well thanks  🙄

[MikeF]

3 hours ago, Robinhood said:

would think the mega fuse used to protect the vehicle battery to alternator circuit is sized for the demand from the starter

The fuse in the battery to starter/alternator cable is not a standard mega fuse, it's a CAL 4 or CAL 5 fuse. These are 'slow blowing' and allow many tens of seconds of high current to the starter motor. 

[Robinhood]

19 minutes ago, MikeF said:

The fuse in the battery to starter/alternator cable is not a standard mega fuse, it's a CAL 4 or CAL 5 fuse. These are 'slow blowing' and allow many tens of seconds of high current to the starter motor. 

Indeed, I should have been rather more correct in my terminology. 500A MTA-made one on mine (though earlier X/250s seem to have had a 150A version looking at ePer).

[John52]

23 hours ago, Robinhood said:

Regardless of whether I agree or not with a posters point of view, continuing to post the same content that has already been moderated away for reasons that have been explained is not something I, for one, find acceptable.

Well now the link to the Guardian article has been 'moderated away' too.

There is still a post saying its an 'interesting read' but the link to it has gone.

Has the Guardian been censored here?

I must have missed the explanation for that

Can you please let me know what it was?

Edited April 7 by John52

[Derek Uzzell]

3 hours ago, John52 said:

...There is still a post saying its an 'interesting read' but the link to it has gone.

As the link to the Guardian article is no longer present (I don't THINK I removed it) the 'interesting read' texts no longer make any sense, so I've edited them out.

Thanks for drawing attention to that anomaly. 😇

[John52]

10 hours ago, Derek Uzzell said:

As the link to the Guardian article is no longer present (I don't THINK I removed it) the 'interesting read' texts no longer make any sense, so I've edited them out.

Thanks for drawing attention to that anomaly. 😇

So, going by whats left, I guess we can say you can no longer rely on the UK Government, or the EU, to check the batteries we buy are safe.  But we can't explain why without offending the Tories and Brexiteers. 

[Globebuster1]

2 hours ago, John52 said:

So, going by whats left, I guess we can say you can no longer rely on the UK Government, or the EU, to check the batteries we buy are safe.  But we can't explain why without offending the Tories and Brexiteers. 

Sorry Mods, but I have to say this -

John, why did you feel that last sentence was necessary?

We're way off the original post now.

[John52]

52 minutes ago, Globebuster1 said:

Sorry Mods, but I have to say this -

John, why did you feel that last sentence was necessary?

We're way off the original post now.

Some people may think we can still rely on those who used to check the batteries we buy are safe.

This has already resulted in fatal fires - its that important

So we have to say we can no longer rely on those who used to check them for us

And its necessary to explain why.

To censor that is political - and dangerous.

[John52]

I have also posted a link to that Guardian article on other forums

No one else has censored it

I feel it wouldn't have been censored here if Globebuster had let it go like everyone else.