adesteele Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 Hi Any ideas appreciated on this one please... I have a 2007 Fiat Ducato 2.3 (130 multijet 250 f1ae0481n engine) which I've had for over a decade. This season, I've had 3 occasions when the engine will not start and I cant work out why. When you turn the engine key, the dashboard lights up as usual, and the cil light goes out as usual after a couple of seconds, yet when you turn the key to engage the starter motor noting happens, not a sound. The battery is fine, 3 years old (as is the starter motor), a multimeter reports 12.6 volts idle, 12.2 volts with engine off and all lights and fans on, and under starting load (when the starter motor does work), down to 10.5 to 11.5 volts, never lower. Sometimes it starts fine time after time, sometimes it just wont move the starter motor at all. Something electrical occasionally stops the starter from turning. It has 1 original OEM key which as never had an issue before. Battery terminals have been removed, sanded and I'm sure they have a good electrical contact. The only recent engine maintenance is a full service and replacement of the fuel filter housing which had a small leak. As an example, yesterday I drove 20 miles from home, stopped for fuel, and 5 mins later tried to start the engine and nothing happened. I tried many times and no joy. I jumped the battery from the leisure battery and still no joy. Then after a few minutes it sprang back to life and started, and has started 6 times on the trot with no issues. Any ideas please as to what can cause this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Labby Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 It could be worth replacing the engine /gearbox to body earth cable (or adding another) as these have been known to cause strange electrical problems even when it is looking ok. It would also be worth checking that the connections at the starter motor solenoid are clean/secure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebird Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 Does the padlock light stay illuminated? If it does, it's the age old Ducato problem with the immobiliser. I'm sure there will be plenty of references to possible remedies. Mine was to sell the van and buy a Merc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 58 minutes ago, Bluebird said: Does the padlock light stay illuminated? If it does, it's the age old Ducato problem with the immobiliser. I'm sure there will be plenty of references to possible remedies. Mine was to sell the van and buy a Merc. Sorry Bluebird, A kind suggestion, but the immobiliser does not interrupt the starter solenoid circuit. With immobiliser failure you can crank the engine, but injection is prevented. However if an after market alarm is fitted, it could be arranged to interrupt the starter solenoid circuit. 1 hour ago, Labby said: It could be worth replacing the engine /gearbox to body earth cable (or adding another) as these have been known to cause strange electrical problems even when it is looking ok. It would also be worth checking that the connections at the starter motor solenoid are clean/secure. May I suggest an additional course of action, to apply if/when problem re-occurs. Connect a jump lead between engine lifting lug and a clean, sound chassis connecting point. Ho This problem often manifests itself with spurious alarms. Photo of failing earth strap attached. Note orange cuprous oxide, which is a sign of overheating. Internal corrosion can occur. I believe that the photo was originally published on the motorhome fun forum. Another possibility to consider is increasing contact resistance at the ignition switch itself, or on the connections to it, at the multiway connector on the steering column. I do not have a suitable copy of the starter circuit diagram, but from my fuzzy pdf copy the starter motor solenoid wire should be brown / black in colour and terminate on pin 3 of the 3 way connector, where pin 2 is the red/black 12V supply to the ignition switch. Alan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 This is the MHFun 2023 discussion in which the earth-strap photo appeared https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/engine-won’t-start.288941/ and the image also turns up on the Fiat Forum https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/ducato-2007-starting-problems.506398/ The advice here may also be of interest https://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/earth-strap-problems.php 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 (edited) Hi Yes the earth lead should be replaced if in any doubt and all fuses for good contact ,but it may not always the case in this instance of intermittent starting You need to check is under the fuse box. There is a blue connector that is a well known cause . This needs to be examined carefully for any corrosion in the contacts needs to be dealt with sometimes with a new connector. You also need to check the wiring for the low pressure pump. It needs to be checked for damaged and repaired The fuel pump should run for about 20 seconds after the key is turned on , if the engine does not started; it switches off. Check the wires in the bundle under the N/S headlamp for damage and repair if necessary Last check is the ECU /Body computer wiring loom. Check this wiring for continuity, quite often a wire breaks here and disrupts signal to the ECU from the body computer under the dash. It may cause an immoblisier fault Hope this helps Regards Edited May 13 by onecal 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 I'm sure you can discount the low pressure fuel pump being the cause of the problem this weather Its there for priming and for pumping thick diesel in very cold weather. Disconnecting it this weather makes no difference as the high pressure fuel pump will suck the fuel through. (I tried disconnecting the low fuel pressure fuel pump to see if doing so with a secret switch would work as an anti theft device. But my X2/50 started and run just as well without it) How you would check the wiring loom for continuity onecal? Given its so inaccessible its apparently an engine out job to replace it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 Hi "adesteele", Let us know how you got on , discount nothing as the simple faults can cause issues and have to be rectified.If you do not know how to perform the tasks I have outlined (I have no idea of your competence), then get a good auto electrician or tech to do it for you . Let us know of your outcome Hope this helps Regards 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 I would check the fault codes But apparently the OP hasn't been back since starting the thread? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 Hi We had a 07 that failed to start now and again on our trip to Spain and Portugal He had already replaced the earth wire just before the trip . I found damaged connection under the fuse box (blue connector) and some wire damage under the N/S light . I repaired it for them and no issues since Starting every time every time . I have found that its very common on your model and have repaired many with no issues afterwards Hope this helps Let us know if you solved yours Regards 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adesteele Posted May 15 Author Share Posted May 15 On 13/05/2024 at 22:07, onecal said: Hi Yes the earth lead should be replaced if in any doubt and all fuses for good contact ,but it may not always the case in this instance of intermittent starting You need to check is under the fuse box. There is a blue connector that is a well known cause . This needs to be examined carefully for any corrosion in the contacts needs to be dealt with sometimes with a new connector. You also need to check the wiring for the low pressure pump. It needs to be checked for damaged and repaired The fuel pump should run for about 20 seconds after the key is turned on , if the engine does not started; it switches off. Check the wires in the bundle under the N/S headlamp for damage and repair if necessary Last check is the ECU /Body computer wiring loom. Check this wiring for continuity, quite often a wire breaks here and disrupts signal to the ECU from the body computer under the dash. It may cause an immoblisier fault Hope this helps Regards Hi Onecal Thanks for this . What is thelis blue connector please, is it a wiring joint, or a relay or something? Any photos of it by any chance please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adesteele Posted May 15 Author Share Posted May 15 Thanks to all for ideas. Busy at work, but following the 🧵 thank you ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adesteele Posted May 15 Author Share Posted May 15 1 hour ago, onecal said: Hi We had a 07 that failed to start now and again on our trip to Spain and Portugal He had already replaced the earth wire just before the trip . I found damaged connection under the fuse box (blue connector) and some wire damage under the N/S light . I repaired it for them and no issues since Starting every time every time . I have found that its very common on your model and have repaired many with no issues afterwards Hope this helps Let us know if you solved yours Regards Noted thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adesteele Posted May 15 Author Share Posted May 15 11 hours ago, John52 said: I would check the fault codes But apparently the OP hasn't been back since starting the thread? I also had a fuel filter housing fail, and these were the fault codes, if that helps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 Hi Yes the blue connector is a connection block under the fuse box . It's a well known issue along with damaged wiring under the near side light . Regards 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 On 15/05/2024 at 21:13, adesteele said: I also had a fuel filter housing fail, and these were the fault codes, if that helps? Not really, do you have the fault codes showing now? As Alanb says, if an after market alarm is fitted, it could be arranged to interrupt the starter solenoid circuit This is what happens with my 2021 Ducato - although the after market alarm is just a secret switch that interrupts one of the 2 wires that run from the coil around the ignition lock barrel to the ECU - (the means by which the ECU communicates wirelessly with the chip inside the ignition key) When I forget to operate the secret switch before trying to start the engine the padlock light stays on, and the engine doesn't turn over when the ignition key is turned. In which case this leaves a fault code relating to the immobiliser - shown by the free google car scanner app you appear to have used. The current flowing through these wires is very small so connections have to be absolutely perfect - if the switch contacts get a bit tarnished thats enough to stop it. It could be these wires have been cut at some point to fit an anti theft device and rejoined with a less than perfect connection But it could be so many things you really need an up to date code reading to point you in the right direction - probably, but not necessarily, with something more than the google car scanner app. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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