AnnieP Posted May 20 Share Posted May 20 Hi we have a Chausson flash 20 2014 fitted with a CBE150tr control panel and CBE fuse board DS309TR. We have owned the van for around 6 months and travelled extensively Morocco and Spain during that time with no problems. The van was stood for around a month. On return we found the 5amp fuse in the boite de securitie was blown and no 12v power nothing on the control panel. We have replaced the fuse and it blows again in one or other of the two boxes. We have disconnected the 16 core cable between the control panel and fuse box at both ends. The fuses are stable. If we reconnect the cable at the fuse box only, the fuses blow. The fuse/fuses still blow whether or not mains electric is connected. Both leisure batteries are under a year old and showing fully charged and we have a solar panel. An experienced engineer spent 3 hours last week and could not find the fault except perhaps suspecting the cable it’s self. Has anyone got any ideas. Any advice or suggestions gratefully received. We live in France and it is difficult to find specialists who can help. Thank you in advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted May 20 Share Posted May 20 Hi Maybe the dreaded mice chewed some of your wiring when it was parked up for the month . I have no idea of your competence with auto electrics, so i can only advise you get it checked by a good auto electrician. He will do continuity check on wiring for shorts and hopefully solve your problem if the wiring is damaged by rodents or chaffed somewhere along the line Check to see if the correct fuses (Amperage) are placed correct positions Sometimes they may inadvertently get placed in the wrong position (Examole a 5A in a 15A position ) Under no circumstance up rate your fuse to a higher amperage than recommended for that circuit Best to have someone check it for you if you are unsure Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 20 Share Posted May 20 AnnieP I notice that you also asked about this on May 3 on the MotorhHomeFun forum. https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/chasson-flash-no-12v.302264/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnnieP Posted May 20 Author Share Posted May 20 (edited) Hi yes we did post elsewhere in a few places in fact but tearing our hair out trying to get it sorted. We are trying everyone’s suggestions and are thankful for them. The specialist we took it to was very vague and ‘thought’ it could be the cable. We have been trying to source a cable but no one supplies it for the model with the TR suffix and no one sees to be able to say if any other will do the job. It’s a costly purchase if a. It isn’t the cable at fault and b. The cable we source is not the correct one. Trying to ask in as many places as possible in the hope someone can come up with a solution. We have thought it may be mice eating the cable as we do live very rural. Edited May 20 by AnnieP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted May 20 Share Posted May 20 Hi Again have it looked at by a good auto electrician He should be will able to inform you of any cable fault very quickly. I am sorry I do not understand why you say the cable is not available or not a correct one, you have tried to source. He should be well able to make up a cable of the correct gauge that you need to replace. This should not be an issue? Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnnieP Posted May 20 Author Share Posted May 20 The specialist motorhome electrician we saw here in France said that he was unable to source a 16core replacement cable for us and as I have said he was uncertain if this was actually the issue anyway. We have tried various suppliers of CBE equipment both in the UK and in France and Germany and they are all uncertain which cable we would need. I have contacted Trigano who I believe are the makers of the equipment but have not had a reply from them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Labby Posted May 20 Share Posted May 20 Have you tried www.apuljackelectronics.co.uk ? who list repairs to CBE systems in their catalogue and may be able to help with ideas or a replacement cable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted May 20 Share Posted May 20 (edited) Hi I think I would use another auto electrician if he is not able to ascertain if indeed the cable itself is faulty and unable to replace it and also unable to give you an accurate diagnosis . Maybe you can post some photos of this cable . Also just changing the relay may solve your problem . Any good auto electrician should be able to make you up the required cable if damaged and shorting out Very strange Regards Edited May 20 by onecal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 12 hours ago, AnnieP said: ...I have contacted Trigano who I believe are the makers of the equipment but have not had a reply from them... The TRIGANO motorhome group currently comprises 25 brands, including Challenger/Chausson. Your 2014 Chausson Flash 20's electrics come from the Italian firm CBE that supplies equipment to many motorhome manufacturers, not just those in the TRIGANO Group. https://www.cbe.it/en/ CBE often provides 'bespoke' electrical equipment and, in your Flash's case, the "TR" suffix on the control-panel and distribution box indicates that those items were designed to a particular specification chosen for TRIGANO Group motorhomes. This 2014 Chausson User's Manual https://www.motorhomes-chausson.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/MANUEL-Chausson-2014-Anglais.pdf refers to the CBE PC150-TR control-panel and to the DS300-TR distribution box, but does not say what differences from the 'standard' panel and box the TR suffix indicates. It may be something quite minor (eg. a water-tank heater rather than an awning light) or be more unusual (eg. the decision to fit CBE 205078 Boite Relais Securite units). What it does mean though is that, if there were a problem with your Flash's CBE control-panel or distribution box, to ensure that the electrical system was fully functional an exactly matching 'TR suffix' replacement panel or box would need to be obtained, and there's a reasonable likelihood that a similar requirement applies to the connection cable. Motorhome manufacturers are fond of CBE equipment as it can be provided as a complete kit that's very straightforward to install and (as will be apparent from the advert below) is quite inexpensive. https://autocraftmotorcaravans.co.uk/product/cbe-pc180-electric-control-panel-kit/ However, as you are finding, a 'bespoke' CBE electrical system can present real difficulties when trying to accurately diagnose a fault. The CBE 205078 product seems to still be available to order https://www.simatshop.com/fr/unites-de-contrle/2852-boite-relais-securite-cbe-205078-rele-camper-chausson-challenger-8033123263849.html but it's anybody's guess whether replacing the 'boites' would result in a fix. Presumably you've contacted a Chausson/Challenger dealership in France? Even if they could not help directly, they might be prepared to recommend an electrician who is familiar with the CBE system fitted to your Flash 20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnnieP Posted May 21 Author Share Posted May 21 Thank you this gives us further details for a search. Chausson are being unresponsive at the moment. It’s very frustrating as you can imagine. At least it is reassuring to know a complete new system is not too expensive should we have to go down that route. Thank you for taking the time to try to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 Hi I am still at a loss as to why a good auto electrician who specialises in motorhome repair is unable to diagnose this for you as CBE equipment is widely used . A cable continuity check and replacement cable if necessary, along with a replacement relay should be no problem to start off with . But you may find it more comfortable with a complete new CBE unit if as you say find it not that expensive route to follow. Then that is the way to go Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinM50 Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 Agree with onecal, a good electrician should be able to find a shorted cable with ease. Even a French one😁 If you're already in France maybe divert to the Chausson factory and see if they can help? TRIGANO VDL (Customer service) 1 Avenue de Rochebonne CS 69003 07302 Tournon-sur-Rhône Cedex They're 90km south of Lyon. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 I think Annie lives in the Paris area - so about 350 miles to the Chausson factory. Besides which - based my own efforts to obtain some basic information from the Chausson factory by email - a visit to the French factory with no prior appointment would be extremely unlikely to be productive. (Though probably much the same in the UK...) French motorhome manufacturers are extremely reluctant to deal directly with owners of their vehicles, expecting/demanding that owners discuss any problems with dealerships. So I really can't see the Chausson factory showing any interest in trying to resolve a problem with a 10-years-old motorhome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 (edited) Hi I am sure there are quite a few very competent auto electric guys around the Paris area that would fix up the issue for "AnnieP" Maybe a quick glance in her local paper or indeed facebook may help Or contact a camping club , as attached Camping Car Club Ile-de-France https://www.ccc-iledefrance.com Hopefully a member may be able to recommend a competent auto electrical garage close to you Regards Edited May 21 by onecal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 I quote from @AnnieP's Initial post. "We have disconnected the 16 core cable between the control panel and fuse box at both ends. The fuses are stable. If we reconnect the cable at the fuse box only, the fuses blow." To me there can only be one conclusion from the above. i.e. The cable is faulty. To the best of my knowledge there is nothing model specific about CBE 16 way cables which are used to connect CBE control panels PCxxx, with the 12V distribution boards DSxxx, except perhaps for length. My advice is to source a replacement cable of adequate length from a CBE equipment supplier, and try fitting to the distribution board end only, before trying to fully install the cable. Do not buy from Chausson dealer, as price will be inflated. Alan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 Hi I agree with Alan re the cable , again not difficult to source in different lengths or indeed repair Also a new relay may be needed . Let us know of your outcome Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 (edited) 6 hours ago, onecal said: Hi I agree with Alan re the cable , again not difficult to source in different lengths or indeed repair Also a new relay may be needed . Let us know of your outcome Regards I do not understand the logic behind the suggestion of a relay unit "boite de securite" being faulty. There are two boite de securite shown on the diagram posted by @AnnieP From a previous thread on this forum relating to a Chausson and these relay units, one will probably be a split charge relay, and the other will be an EMC relay, controlling the habitation supplies. As the definition of the attached wiring diagram is insufficient to allow reading the fine detail, I cannot determine the exact mode of operation. "We have replaced the fuse and it blows again in one or other of the two boxes. " Annie, are you saying that the 5A fuse has blown in both boxes, even if on different occasions? For test puposes, I see no great problem in directly operating either boite de securite directly. To do this open the box, unplug the two pole connector, and apply a temporary shorting connection across the two poles of the printed circuit mounted section (socket?)connector. Alan Edited May 22 by Alanb typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 Hi, Again we await "AnnieP" reply ???? Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnnieP Posted May 23 Author Share Posted May 23 Sorry for not replying sooner. We have found someone who knew where to look! A retired engineer living a couple of hours away offered to help and found what the professionals couldn’t. He spent 6 hours yesterday testing everything and yes it was the cable two wires shorting out. He did say he had never seen it before and couldn’t understand why it had happened. He has rigged a temporary fix for us and we have sourced and ordered a new cable which he will fit for us when it arrives. Thank you all for taking the time to try to help. We live very remotely in SW France and finding anyone to work on a motorhome is extremely difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 Thanks for the update, Annie. As your Good Samaritan engineer said, it would be very unusual for that particular cable to fail in use - which is why motorhome manufacturers make no attempt to allow for the cable to be replaced easily!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 Hi Glad we were all able to help and point you in the right direction Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 On 22/05/2024 at 09:23, Alanb said: I quote from @AnnieP's Initial post. "We have disconnected the 16 core cable between the control panel and fuse box at both ends. The fuses are stable. If we reconnect the cable at the fuse box only, the fuses blow." To me there can only be one conclusion from the above. i.e. The cable is faulty. Exactly Personally I wouldn't bother with sourcing another 16 core cable Just replace the 2 defective wires with suitable 2 core cable running alongside 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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