LPG on Eurostar

[Asherwin]

I’m thinking of getting a Gaslow LPG conversion (2x6kg bottles) but worried about not being allowed on Eurostar or ferries.

Has anyone encountered any problems getting in or out of Europe with LPG installed for cooking and heating?

[rayc]

Asherwin - 2020-11-19 9:26 PM

 

I’m thinking of getting a Gaslow LPG conversion (2x6kg bottles) but worried about not being allowed on Eurostar or ferries.

Has anyone encountered any problems getting in or out of Europe with LPG installed for cooking and heating?

 

Eurotunnel allows LPG for domestic purposes to be carried on the shuttle. The shut off valves on the bottles are checked by their staff as part of the boarding process. It does not allow LPG powered vehicles.

 

https://www.eurotunnel.com/uk/travelling-with-us/vehicles/fuel-types/

[machra]

Used to get pulled over and staff used to ask you to open gas locker and physically check gas valves every time we went through ‘check in’ on Eurostar but recently all the staff have done is ask if the gas valves are turned off.

[Derek Uzzell]

It’s perhaps worth pointng out that “Eurostar” relates to the PASSENGER-carrying train services that commence at St Pancras station in London, travel through the Channel Tunnel and then continue to termini in France, Belgium and the Netherlands.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurostar

 

The VEHICLE-carrying train service is referred to as “Le Shuttle”, starts (in the UK) from Cherlton (Folkestone), travels through the Channel Tunnel and terminates at Coquelles (Calais).

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurotunnel_Shuttle

 

For motorhomes using Le Shuttle, the relevant rules regarding ‘gas used for domestic services’ (eg. gas stored in Gaslow bottles) are stated in the link rayc provided above and there’s also this cross-reference.

 

https://www.eurotunnel.com/uk/travelling-with-us/vehicles/caravans-campervans-and-trailers/

 

Enquiries on motorhome forums about gas and Le Shuttle tended to focus on the seemingly rigid ‘checking’ rules relating to fixed LPG tanks rather than bottles. This 2014 forum discussion is an example

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Autogas-lpg-tanks-and-Eurotunnel/34967/

 

Ferry company rules are less stringent than Le Shuttle’s where the vehicle fuel is concerned. Brittany Ferries (BF) advice is here

 

https://www.brittany-ferries.co.uk/information/faqs/travel-information/can-i-take-my-lpg-lng-vehicle-on-your-ferry

 

and their gas cylinder guidance is here

 

https://www.brittany-ferries.co.uk/information/faqs/travel-information/can-i-transport-gas-cylinders-on-board

 

(The 47kg maximum seems to be the norm.)

 

I’ve never had a physical check made (in the UK or abroad) that my motorhome’s gas bottles were turned off before boarding a ferry. A good few years ago, during a pre-boarding inspection at Portsmouth, I was asked if if I had turned off the bottles and I said “No”. The female security checker replied “The bottles must be turned off before you board the ferry” and I said that I was well aware of this but I was currently in a shed not on a ship.

[Clive_Adams]

Always been asked on a Ferry whether the gas is turned off, on the euro tunnel always had an inspection (all be it pretty cursory) by the staff before boarding.

[BruceM]

We’ve not used the van on Eurotunnel but can confirm that neither on the Dover-Calais or Dover-Dunkirk ferry crossings has gas ever been mentioned to us in either direction. We always travel with the gas turned off anyway so makes it no difference to us. We’ve travelled both during peak and off peak so it doesn’t appear to relate to how busy they are. On all our return crossings but one to the UK though, we’ve had the inside of the van checked for unauthorised occupants.

[DickB]

When I travelled on the Shuttle last year the gas locker was checked on check-in. When she saw the crash cutout I was told to continue; no need to turn off the gas.

 

Dick

[Derek Uzzell]

Eurotunnel’s rules regarding gas containers are as follows:

 

Gas containers

 

If travelling with a campervan, caravan or van, any gas container must be declared when asked, and will be checked at the appropriate checkpoint by Eurotunnel.

 

Transport of gas containers to power domestic services* for caravans, campervans is restricted. Please click here to check these restrictions.

 

Gas containers must be switched off whilst travelling and connection systems must be in good condition.

 

Opening the container tap or using domestic services is strictly forbidden until the vehicle has unloaded on the opposite terminal.

 

Note: Containers must be easy of access by our staff for any check.

 

Eurotunnel reserves the right to cancel your journey in case of non compliance with the conditions expressed above.

 

https://help.eurotunnel.com/hc/en-gb/articles/214047349-Gas-containers

 

There can be llittle doubt that this advice to travellers conflicts with the Eurotunnel staff-member’s (misguided) belief that your motorhome’s ‘crash sensor’ system would provide equivalent gas-leakage protection to turning off gas bottles at their output valves.

 

Past dialogue with Eurotunnel has indicated that the company is ‘flexible’ when it comes to motorhomes with fixed LPG tanks and that the company is prepared to accept that the tank’s output valve need not be switched off provided that gas stopcocks within the motorhome are turned off and that it can be demonstrated that this has disabled the gas system.

 

[Albertslad]

Derek Uzzell - 2020-11-24 8:59

 

 

Past dialogue with Eurotunnel has indicated that the company is ‘flexible’ when it comes to motorhomes with fixed LPG tanks and that the company is prepared to accept that the tank’s output valve need not be switched off provided that gas stopcocks within the motorhome are turned off and that it can be demonstrated that this has disabled the gas system.

That’s interesting Derek,

In a previous incarnation on this forum I tried, without success, to source a solution to this problem for our Ducato with underchassis Stako gas tank, and I recently found a company in Leicester who had come across the modification I was looking for, but had not been able to source the full kit of parts to distribute.

 

Your description of the arrangement that Eurotunnel would find acceptable is encouraging. At some point I’m either going to forget to turn our supply off under the van, or simply not be agile enough to crawl underneath??, and so far, we’ve not risked the tunnel, but I’m thinking that the advantages are hard to argue with for future trips.

Anyway, thanks for the information,

Stay safe,

Albertslad

P.s. we can all get started planning for the New Year, and hope that our vaccination is administered by an experienced medical person, who doesn’t favour the “ Dartboard/Double-Top” technique. (I know, I watch too much news)

[Derek Uzzell]

I remember your earler enquiry

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Remote-gas-shutoff-anyone-/46078/

 

Buried in this 2018 forum thread

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Fixed-gas-tank-or-two-refillables-/48595/

 

in my posting of 31 January 2018 6:37 PM I said

 

...A week or so ago - out of idle curiosity - I emailed Eurotunnel and asked what their policy was. Did a fixed LPG tank’s outlet-valve always need to be turned off prior to travelling on Le Shuttle? Or was it sufficient to turn off a motorhome’s internal gas isolation-taps as was suggested in some motorhome handbooks ( eg. Auto-Sleepers’s)?

 

I received an email back from Eurotunnel’s Sales Support Team asking for an example of the handbooks I’d mentioned so that their "ground staff” could adjudicate and I sent them a file containing a recent Auto-Sleepers handbook.

 

Four days later I received an email from the Sales Support Team confirming that turning off the gas isolation taps inside the motorhome would be sufficient. It was also suggested that - if I was going to travel on Le Shuttle in a motorhome with a fixed LPG tank - I should take a copy of the Sales Support Team’s email to show to the ground staff if necessary.

 

Attached below is the chunk of text (copied from a 2019 Auto-Sleepers handbook) that was relevant to my enquiry.

 

Before committing to travelling via Eurotunnel, you might want to (carefully!!) tell the company that you’ve been advised that motorhomes with under-chassis fixed LPG tanks for ‘domestic’ purposes may now use the Tunnel without the gas-supply being physically turned off at the tank itself, provided that all gas isolation stopcocks within the motorhome were switched off - and ask if that’s indeed the case.

 

[mikefitz]

Albertslad - 2020-11-24 5:05 PM

 

' At some point I’m either going to forget to turn our supply off under the van, or simply not be agile enough to crawl underneath.’

 

 

You may be interested in an electrical controlled shut off valve and control electronics available from Gasit,

 

https://www.gasit.co.uk/lpg-tank-remote-operated-solonoid-valve.html

 

This can be retrofitted by a LPG specialist.

 

A electric control box of tricks reduces the power to a low value once the solenoid has switched,

 

https://www.gasit.co.uk/ultra-low-current-driver-ulcd-2-0-for-12-volt-tank-shut-off-valve.html

 

Without the low current driver the remote valve takes 1.5 amps, this is reduced to around 0.6 amps with the driver circuit. Note this current will be taken for the duration that the gas supply is on. This may be an issue if your electrical system is not robust.

 

On the Euro tunnel situation, ( I make 8 to 10 trips a year via Euro tunnel), I can confirm that closing the valves on the gas manifold in the van and thus isolating all appliances is accepted by staff where a under slung LPG tank is fitted.

 

Mike

[Albertslad]

Our van is a bespoke Ducato, so no handbook other than the one I put together, and our tank gauge is a 5-light one that doesn’t indicate any 80% setting.

I have one more possible source of the manual shutoff that I’ve been trying to track down; once lockdown is over I’m planning to make one last push on this.

I’ll let you know how I get on

Cheers

Albertslad

[2GB Racing]

When I recently installed an underslung LPG tank on our Ducato chassis I used a yellow handled manual shut off valve from Gas-it, and plumbed this in between the tank and regulator so the shut off valve is accessible by reaching just under the gas locker so no need to crawl under the van, just kneel down and reach underneath, the valve is also visible through the mesh in the locker floor to see if on or off.

[mikefitz]

Albertslad - 2020-11-24 7:07 PM

 

our tank gauge is a 5-light one that doesn’t indicate any 80% setting.

 

Albertslad

 

No need to worry about the 80% fill, the tank itself automatically shuts off the fill at 80% of tank capacity. Thus the tank can never be more than 80% full.

 

Mike

[Derek Uzzell]

The 1st photo attached below shows an electrically-operated shut-off valve on a STAKO gas tank.

 

This approach has been regularly suggested over the years for motorhome underslung LPG tanks, often in order to avoid having to manually operate the rotary valve such tanks are normally fitted with should Eurotunnel (or a ferry operator) insist that a tank’s gas-supply be turned off at source.

 

This 2017 forum thread

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Underfloor-LPG-shutoff/47760/

 

discussed a ‘remote shut-off’ capability and included a couple of photos (2nd and 3rd images below) showing a tank’s rotary valve and cover modified so that the valve could be operated with the cover in situ.

 

Snowie /Albertslad commented then that combining that approach with a flexi-drive to a handle (fixed or removable) just under the bodywork near a wheelarch might be a potential solution, and I’m guessing this is what’s being referred to in his posting of 24 November 2020 5:05 PM above.

 

This Clive Mott webpage

 

http://www.motts.org/GASKIT.htm

 

describes how he fitted an external handle to permit an LPG tank’s rotary valve to be operated with the cover in place, but if it were still necessary to get under the motorhome to turn the handle, Clive’s modification only goes part way to addressing Eurotunnel’s ’turn off gas’ advice.

 

Eurotunnel’s guidance relating to “Fixed gas containers (tanks, etc.)” is as follows:

 

For the purposes of this text, this means fixed containers that are permanently installed or fixed in a vehicle and are refillable from outside the vehicle.

 

The quantity of gas is limited to 47kg (or approximately 93 litres) maximum for a single container and to 50kg (or approximately 99 litres) maximum in the case of several containers. Each container must be no more than 80% full.

 

The quantity will be checked via the gauge or remote indicator but if neither are present, the vehicle will be refused.

 

GASIT’s advice is here

 

https://www.gasit.co.uk/support/knowledgebase.php?article=15

 

and says

 

"So when it comes to the Euro tunnel, don't worry if the contents gauge is showing 100% full, that's your gas amount to use, not that the bottles 100% full, it's 80% full.”

 

but that seems to assume that a Eurotunnel checker will be aware that 100%-full on the gauge translates to 80%-full for the tank (assuming that the tank’s 80% cut-off valve is working properly!) and that he/she can be sure that the quantity of gas in the tank does not exceed the 93 litres maximum.

 

I would have thought that - by now - so many motorhomes with underslung LPG tanks will have travelled on the Eurotunnel route that the company won’t be much concerned about gauges, tank capacity or the 80%-full rule, and (as mikefitz mentioned above) will accept a demonstation (or confirmation from the motorhome owner) that the gas isoation valves in the motorhome's interior have all been closed.