terryW Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Further thoughts on this subject overnight. If a SWR was used in industry for lifting anything it would need to be inspected at regular intervals. I doubt if the MOT will check it for safety and as this is factory fitted I wonder if FIAT have covered it in the servicing schedule? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky 8 Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Tracker - 2011-03-08 9:37 PM Quite so Peter - Autocruise use Peugeot base vehicles which do have the perception as being a little less down market than Fiat Don't know where you got that Idea from Rich, Peugeot always made a great reliable diesel engine,,I had a 504 7 seat-er estate which I bought cheap as it had a little end knock (which I intended to sort),it ran for a further 80,000 miles with the little end knock getting no worst, but the body did give up the ghost, I always said I would never own a dog named Rover let alone a car, the same goes for (spit) Fiat, I have twice swallowed my pride and bought (spit) Fiat, the first time was an error the second time was sheer madness, never again . I would rate Peugeot, up there with Ford,Vw, the Now skoda, and (spit) Fiat with Yugo,Moskovich, Vaz/Lada just to name a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryW Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Just checked with my local Fiat dealer and no surprise the cable will not be inspected when the vehicle is serviced. Fired off an Email to Fiat expressing my concern over the design, lack of recommendation for servicing and no guidance on correct tension of the cable. Who wants to bet they wont give a direct answer to the specific points raised Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Hello campers, Some facts for you: From 2006 all X250 variants from Fiat, Pug and Cit were fitted with spare wheels. Only the smallest vans (SWB basic spec ones) had the inflator kit instead. There were two types of carrier for the spare wheels; one for all panel vans and some chassis cabs with the winder mechanism accessed from the rear and vehicles 'for conversion' had a system that was operated from the offside. The only problems that I am aware of are with the rear access system, and we have definitely lost at least 2 wheels in this way. We have also had several jammed mechanisms that have had to be replaced. At first we were supplied with the same part number as that originally fitted, then in 2008 another part number appeared and soon disappeared. The explanation given by Fiat was that the new carrier "Was not of suitable quality for sale". We went through much of 2009 and 2010 without being able to get new units from anywhere. During 2009 spare wheels and carriers became an option which was either a cynical move to extract more money from purchasers or to avoid warranty claims for a while. When a carrier finally arrived, I took one look at it and sent it back because it was completely different and had instructions withit that showed it fitted to the vehicle with a hole through the side and the winder handle exiting to the offside! There was no way that this would fit our vans. Two weeks later we received some information from Fiat via our dealer that instructed operators in how to fit the side exit mechanism to rear exit vans. I have not fitted it yet, but it looks like a pain in the backside. In the end, Fiat (et al) have decided to modify the mounts and fit the chassis cab carrier instead of getting the design right for the rear exit one. The 'new' item still relies only on one cable and has no locking or security arrangement. It is my opinion that the change will prevent the seizing up problems but not the falling off ones. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickydripin Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Hi I have looked at this post and thought what can I do I have one of these Supended wheels on a wire and am not inclined to crawl under my van every month or so to check it So today I have wrote to VOSA to see what they can do about a recall if you think that you lost your wheels to the wire braking or that you are just worried that it could happen to you send them an email enough of us could just make them think. I will let you know if I get a reply. Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbanracer Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 I had a Peugeot boxer 111 bought sept 2007 with spare wheel,I always wanted to test it but never got round to it! In sept 2010 I bought another peugeot MWB this came with a spare, as said above I thought the spare had been dropped in 2008 so pleased my new van had a spare,checking the build dates on most of the components it appears my new van chassis was built approx march 2010 so has this the new carrier? I use one of those plastic wheel covers,used mainly on 4x4 to keep tyre and wheel clean,tight fit and never lost it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 On my 2010 model the cable has a bell shaped metal piece near the wheel end. This is about 6 inches from the actual end of the cable which terminates in a metal flange which slips through the hole in the centre of the wheel. When the wheel is fully wound up, the bell shaped portion slips into a female version of this shape and appears (via flanges) to 'lock' the cable into the fully wound up position. It looks like this actually takes the weight of the wheel rather than the cable itself. What I couldn't quite fathom was how the lock unlocked as the cable was unwound. Rgds, Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 I can't understand why more manufacturers don't do the same as on our new Auto-Trail and locate the spare wheel in a dedicated lockable locker where it is both safe and easy to get at. The only disadvantage I can see is that it moves the weight further towards the rear thus increasing the rear axle loading. There used to be a caravan on the market, Avondale if I remember rightly, than had a brilliantly simple and effective system. They had a solid carrier tray bolted under the van that was accessed by simply lifting a hatch in the floor of the van. Given the problems with the Alco carries that most manufacturers use I could never understand why more manufacturers did not copy this simple and effective idea. For that matter a similar system could possibly be used on some Motorhomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Colin Leake - 2011-03-09 5:05 PM I can't understand why more manufacturers don't do the same as on our new Auto-Trail and locate the spare wheel in a dedicated lockable locker where it is both safe and easy to get at. The only disadvantage I can see is that it moves the weight further towards the rear thus increasing the rear axle loading. There used to be a caravan on the market, Avondale if I remember rightly, than had a brilliantly simple and effective system. They had a solid carrier tray bolted under the van that was accessed by simply lifting a hatch in the floor of the van. Given the problems with the Alco carries that most manufacturers use I could never understand why more manufacturers did not copy this simple and effective idea. For that matter a similar system could possibly be used on some Motorhomes. Maybe due to the much bigger dimensions & weight than a Caravan sparewheel. (?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickydripin Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Hi I have had an answer from VOSA and they have said that my enquiry has been forwarded to the vehicle safety team who will respond to me in the next five working days. No one has mentioned it but is there anybody else throwing there four penerth in with me and trying to get VOSA to do something. I know just me is not going to do anything so come on I thought that when MMM members get the fire in there belleys nothing can stop them Just maybe togeather we may make a difference. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryW Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Mickydripin - 2011-03-11 6:38 PM Hi I have had an answer from VOSA and they have said that my enquiry has been forwarded to the vehicle safety team who will respond to me in the next five working days. No one has mentioned it but is there anybody else throwing there four penerth in with me and trying to get VOSA to do something. I know just me is not going to do anything so come on I thought that when MMM members get the fire in there belleys nothing can stop them Just maybe togeather we may make a difference. Mike Hi Mike just waiting to see what Fiat reply to my enquiry on the subject then if it's not satisfactory I will forward my concerns together with their reply to VOSA. Will keep you updated with any developments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevor166uk Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Hi This is my first post so go easy on me. Euroserv's very interesting post contained the following paragraph;- "There were two types of carrier for the spare wheels; one for all panel vans and some chassis cabs with the winder mechanism accessed from the rear and vehicles 'for conversion' had a system that was operated from the offside." I have a late 2010 van conversion on an X250 Fiat base. Its a LWB high top panel van but has the system accessed from the offside, behind the offside rear wheel, so perhaps some vans do have it?? I can't help thinking that the problem may be caused by water entering the winding box and causing the mechanism and cable to rust and/or sieze. So what I have done is to cover the box with wayoyl, paying attention to the joints in the mouldings of the 2 halves of the box. Hopefully this will prevent some water ingress. Also I have fully unwould the cable and covered it in grease, then wound it back in. I also feel it would be wise for me to fully unwind it once every few months just to keep the mechanism working. What do you all think? Am I wasting my time doing this? I don't want to put the spare in the vehicle as its a van and there isn't as big garage area like there is on some coachbuilts. Also I don't really like the idea of having to mess around by the roadside removing some home made carrier system in the event of a puncture. I think the standard system could be a good user friendly design BUT ONLY IF it can be trusted to be reliable. Trev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 trevor166uk - 2011-03-12 10:17 AM Hi This is my first post so go easy on me. Euroserv's very interesting post contained the following paragraph;- "There were two types of carrier for the spare wheels; one for all panel vans and some chassis cabs with the winder mechanism accessed from the rear and vehicles 'for conversion' had a system that was operated from the offside." I have a late 2010 van conversion on an X250 Fiat base. Its a LWB high top panel van but has the system accessed from the offside, behind the offside rear wheel, so perhaps some vans do have it?? I can't help thinking that the problem may be caused by water entering the winding box and causing the mechanism and cable to rust and/or sieze. So what I have done is to cover the box with wayoyl, paying attention to the joints in the mouldings of the 2 halves of the box. Hopefully this will prevent some water ingress. Also I have fully unwould the cable and covered it in grease, then wound it back in. I also feel it would be wise for me to fully unwind it once every few months just to keep the mechanism working. What do you all think? Am I wasting my time doing this? I don't want to put the spare in the vehicle as its a van and there isn't as big garage area like there is on some coachbuilts. Also I don't really like the idea of having to mess around by the roadside removing some home made carrier system in the event of a puncture. I think the standard system could be a good user friendly design BUT ONLY IF it can be trusted to be reliable. Trev I do not have a spare wheel fitted but do in fact have one and a tyre. I have looked under my van, a 2008 coachbulit, and all the holes for brackets are their, the winder hole is, as you say, behind the rear wheel. I looked at several vans at the NEC and those with a spare wheel fitted were all the same with winder behind the rear wheel. I know their is a modified system but no one I have spoken to seems to know how it is differant. The precautions you have taken make sense to me and if I ever get around to fitting the carrier and spare I would do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Just a point if you do have a spare wheel it is worth being aware that your chances of getting the damaged wheel off with the standard wheel brace as supplied by Fiat vary from slim for a steel wheel to none existent for an alloy. We carry and extending wheel brace from Halfords and have twice had to come to the rescue of drivers trying to remove a wheel. If you do buy one be aware that the sockets supplied with the wheel brace as standard will not fit the nuts on most motorhome wheels so you will also need to purchase a suitable socket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazooka Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 I've always used a torque wrench with a socket and a 4 inch extending piece off the socket to clear the bodywork if needed,it fits easily in the transit door pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshague Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Van in for service today asked for them to check spare wheel carrier .they found it is faulty and a new one is now on order from Italy. its worth getting it checked .on your next service Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swiftcruiser Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 As a Swift owner, put same information onto the swift owners forum and within a day, one owner tested his spare wheel mechanism and it failed,this was on a Citroen version of the X250. As each manufacturer Peugeot Fiat and Citroen deal with their own warranty claims it is difficult to establish how many vehicles are affected, so can only suggest for own peace of mind if you have a Peugeot or Citroen latest design with a wind down mechanism, try winding it up and down for your own peace of mind. If the carrier mechanism fails, post an update on this site it may not help you but could alert others to this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshague Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 make that two i am on swift talk . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshague Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 make that two i go swift talk .on my pvc you have go under the van from side to get to winder as the is a step on rear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
everhopeful Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I've tested mine with several up/downs and surprisingly, on the surface, it seems ok. My winder mechanism is on the nearside, and at the end of the cable there is a metal circular ridged device that seems to lock in place when near the top. There is some sort of latching arrangement that makes a loud clicking noise and the wheel does then seem to be held independantly from the wire. Unfortunately when the wheel is at it's optimum parked position the latching mechanism is mid-way between clicks, so who knows if the wheel would actually be held if the cable failed. Also, the holding ratchet seems to release very easily when the winder is reversed to lower. So, although I have no cause to complain to the dealer, I have no confidence that the wheel is actually held safely, and no confidence that the overly complicated mechanism will work when I might need the wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 dwaviation - 2011-03-09 9:54 AM Hmm, food for thought - Has anyone any ideas on some sort of bag or cover for the wheel whilst suspended underneath? I used a cut-down Jewsons Bulk delivery bag, probably not 100% waterproof, but near enough. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike H Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 dshaque. I have a Mondial RL 2008. What did the garage find that was faulty with the carrier? I've checked mine up and down a couple of times. Slightly tight when starting and finishing the winding, could this be locking in position and releasing? I had to drive up on my ramps to get enough room to get the wheel out the back, awkward if you have a flat rear tyre. The cable at the wheel end looked fine, no rust or fraying, can't see the other end thats in the winding box. Which end normally breaks? I wouldn't like it too drop off when driving, because it can't come straight out the back because of the step brackets, it would probably lift the back of the van off the road. I will have to try and fix it up with a strap or something. Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryW Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I now have a"case number" for my enquiry with Fiat on this subject. In short I have asked them to comment on three specific points in relation to the fit on my 08 vehicle. The points raised are: 1 Can the wheel actually fall off if the wire breaks or is it held on in some other way? 2 Why is this item not included in the full Fiat service schedule? 3 In raising the wheel what min/max torque should be applied when the wheel reaches the traveling position so as to prevent over stressing the cable or allowing movement of the wheel? I won't hold my breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 everhopeful - 2011-03-16 8:41 PM I've tested mine with several up/downs and surprisingly, on the surface, it seems ok. My winder mechanism is on the nearside, and at the end of the cable there is a metal circular ridged device that seems to lock in place when near the top. There is some sort of latching arrangement that makes a loud clicking noise and the wheel does then seem to be held independantly from the wire. Unfortunately when the wheel is at it's optimum parked position the latching mechanism is mid-way between clicks, so who knows if the wheel would actually be held if the cable failed. Also, the holding ratchet seems to release very easily when the winder is reversed to lower. So, although I have no cause to complain to the dealer, I have no confidence that the wheel is actually held safely, and no confidence that the overly complicated mechanism will work when I might need the wheel. I've just checked mine, you have to wind it up and down without the spare wheel on it to see and feel it clearly. It appears to work OK. The rings around the top lock into a ratchet mechanism that holds it firmly until it is released by turning the winder the other way. There are 2 operating cables, presumably one for the lifting cable, and the other for the locking mechanism? I agree those rings must be there for a purpose, and the wheel is definitely being held up there by more than just the lifting cable. When you push it up into the holder without winding the cable you can hear and feel it locking firmly in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 PS: What concerns me now is that this locking mechanism appears to be released by turning the handle anti clockwise. So if you wound the wheel up (clockwise engaging the locking mechanism) then backed off half a turn (anti clockwise releasing the locking mechanism) would this mean that the locking mechanism was released so then the wheel was then only held up by the lifting cable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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