Mickydripin Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Hi Terry. there have been so many people on this site complaining about the spare wheel problem I thought that I would get more of you interested come on dont just talk about it do somthing you never know when it will happen to you. Get in touch with VOSA and make your views known to them and tell us if you have done it. Thanks Terry I hope you have something to tell them soon that is if you have a reply from Fiat Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 terryW - 2011-03-17 4:26 PM ............... 2 Why is this item not included in the full Fiat service schedule? ............... Bearing in mind the location of this mechanism, and the fact that use will be a) a no-choice matter, and b) could arise at any time of day or night, on any road, and under any conditions, it seems essential to ensure it is maintained in working order. Based on Fiat's general reputation regarding water ingress, and its location in the most hostile environment on a vehicle, corrosion and crud seem its obvious potential enemies. Two issues arise, in addition to will the wheel lower itself/drop off: 1) will the lock release when required to do so, and 2) will it re-lock securely when the spare is hoisted back into place? Unless regularly exercised and serviced along with everything else, it could easily be five or more years before it is first asked to perform in anger. Chances then of fault free operation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Thing is I haven't heard any evidence of the spare wheel falling off. (Nick mentions spare wheels disappearing, but might have been theft.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryW Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Just had my first call back from Fiat, they really know their product! Their position was that this was not a Fiat issue as anything above the chassis was the converters responsibility? I pointed out that this is attached to the chassis and is under the vehicle. Oh, they say,. . . and off they go again. Further installments to follow...........................sometime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Well I have been playing around with the spare wheel carrier a bit more. Wind the handle clockwise and stop, it locks every time. I know it locks because I do it with the wheel not on the carrier, just push the male carrier up into its female housing and it locks securely even though there is plenty of slack in the cable. But you have only to wind the handle anti clockwise a third of a turn and it releases so then the weight of the wheel would be on the lifting cable. If I had to guess whether the wheels had fallen off or been stolen I would guess stolen. I think we would have heard if they were falling off. But I have put a ratchet strap under my spare wheel just to be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshague Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 picked the van up from fiat dealer today after having a service, to find a new spare wheel carrier had been fitted.they ordered it on Tuesday and fitted it on Thursday not bad parts service there.on talking to technician he said when he checked carrier it did not lock back in properly .on the new one you are given a new handle to operate the winch as you get to the winch from the side .to operate before you had to open rear door .have your carrier checked by your dealer and if its faulty then a new one is fitted under warranty . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
everhopeful Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Peter James's excellent photo shows my arrangement exactly. Considering that the detent should prevent wheel loss in the event of cable breakage, is it the case that there are several variants of this device? The rear access winders seem to be the most problematic and are changed for side winders, so are the rear winders the same as Peters photo? Peter asks if the wheel would be hanging by the cable if the winder were backed off by half a turn, and I would say yes. As you would have no indication of this it doesn't seem an overly great "feature"! A thief with some knowledge of the set-up, and with suitable tools, would have your wheel in about ten seconds. It's a wonder more haven't gone missing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 everhopeful - 2011-03-18 8:31 PM Peter James's excellent photo shows my arrangement exactly. Considering that the detent should prevent wheel loss in the event of cable breakage, is it the case that there are several variants of this device? The rear access winders seem to be the most problematic and are changed for side winders, so are the rear winders the same as Peters photo? Yes, mine is the rear winder type - just inside the back door on the maxi panel van. But they can also be wound from underneath with the right size socket. I guess the old type of vans would have a safety latch you could actually see. This is all enclosed so you can't see it. everhopeful - 2011-03-18 8:31 PM A thief with some knowledge of the set-up, and with suitable tools, would have your wheel in about ten seconds. It's a wonder more haven't gone missing! Now spare wheels are no longer standard equipment perhaps they will. I think I'll either grind the drive shaft end off so it can't be turned from underneath, or put a long bolt through the wheel and the van floor, which would solve both problems. Not ideal to have a nut and bolt sticking up through the van floor, but I'd rather that than carry the spare wheel inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 everhopeful - 2011-03-18 8:31 PM Peter James's excellent photo Ordinary cheap digital camera set on auto, poor light underneath the van, but made a big difference putting a white board behind the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverback Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Peter James - 2011-03-18 3:51 PM PS: What concerns me now is that this locking mechanism appears to be released by turning the handle anti clockwise. So if you wound the wheel up (clockwise engaging the locking mechanism) then backed off half a turn (anti clockwise releasing the locking mechanism) would this mean that the locking mechanism was released so then the wheel was then only held up by the lifting cable? good pic by the way Peter reason i am posting is, and i will say before i start i have not seen the arrangement :-S i will put it in simple terms..the hanging bit with the grooves in..goes into the hole/metal thing from the base of vehicle, see the 2 buttons on the side? when you wind it up the buttons spring into the grooves in the hanging bit, and it will be locked, if you turn it back half a turn it will unlock!! and be hanging on the cable, so in summary :-D lock the thing up, and for exra security thick tie wraps or other means will surfice, on maintanance just grease it that will be enough, thats IMHO or stick the spare in the MH..simples disclaimer.. i did not say this it was the wife :-D so if you see a spare wheel bouncing at you on the M1...its not mine (lol) jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 silverback - 2011-03-18 11:25 PM see the 2 buttons on the side? when you wind it up the buttons spring into the grooves in the hanging bit, and it will be locked, jon sithee old lad theyre not buttons, they're rivet heads, they don't move at all. This is the way its held together so you can't get it apart to see how it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverback Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 i stand corrected then peter *-) like i said never seen it before :-| teach me to keep my sneck out in future :-D *-) :$ jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwaviation Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 I have just got my four year old van into the nice warm hangar and had a look underneath. Most of the winder box is covered in rust and after four years I did wonder wether it would work or not. Surprise, surprise... It worked perfectly. I pulled the cap off the winder box and noted no corrosion at all on the alloy nut, the winch dropped the wheel without problems and the wire was bright and corrosion free. The lug needed a sharp tap with a hammer to free the rust but came away easily enough, it fed through the hole in the wheel first time and there were no problems re-inserting it - back up on the winch, I stopped winding when I heard the first 'creak' and the wheel is solid (in fact trying to move the wheel rocks the van) I think I'll put this one on the back burner and concentrate on getting some washer fluid in the washer bottle - Now that is a crap design... :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwaviation Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Hmmm. Having checked my wheel hangar I have now discovered that my kitchen tap has been leaking and dripping water through the floor - fridge out job :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 dwaviation - 2011-03-19 11:27 AM Hmmm. Having checked my wheel hangar I have now discovered that my kitchen tap has been leaking and dripping water through the floor - fridge out job :-( Oh well ! a job in time 'creates' nine. (we all know it should be 'saves') but in my experience thats not the case. The 'bliss' of not knowing that something is going wrong ? 8-) Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 silverback - 2011-03-19 10:07 AM i stand corrected then peter *-) like i said never seen it before :-| teach me to keep my sneck out in future :-D *-) :$ jon No I'm glad of any ideas, but you have got to look at the thing itself to see the difference between a button and a rivet head. The photos not that good. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryW Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Just been out and lowered my spare for a second time to have further look at the mechanism and guess what, it won’t lift the wheel back up again. The winding mechanism wont even retract an unloaded cable without slipping. Being in 3rd year dealer warranty I’m sure this won’t be covered but fortunately I negotiated an extended warranty at the time of purchase so should be OK. >:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geraldbianchi Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Has anyone got any contact details, phone number, names, addresses for this M/H club. Any help would be most . Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geraldbianchi Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Has anyone got any contact details, phone number, names, addresses for this M/H club. Any help would be most . Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geraldbianchi Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Has anyone got any contact details, phone number, names, addresses for this M/H club. Any help would be most . Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 terryW - 2011-03-19 2:35 PM Just been out and lowered my spare for a second time to have further look at the mechanism and guess what, it won’t lift the wheel back up again. The winding mechanism wont even retract an unloaded cable without slipping. Being in 3rd year dealer warranty I’m sure this won’t be covered but fortunately I negotiated an extended warranty at the time of purchase so should be OK. >:-) Sounds like the cable is tangled up on the reel? It concerns me that backing off the winding handle just a third of a turn releases the catch so all the weight is on the lifting cable. There is nothing about that in the drivers handbook I have. And that the spare can be wound down and stolen from outside the van. So I have just put a long bolt through the wheel and floor of the van with a nut and locking nut inside. This will easily take the weight of the wheel if the carrier fails, and the spare can no longer be removed without getting inside the van. Being a panel van its a steel floor with plywood above it, so able to cut out a small circle of plywood and the end of the bolt doesn't protrude above floor level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryW Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Peter James - 2011-03-19 7:39 PM Sounds like the cable is tangled up on the reel? Yes, I'm sure thats right. Tangled cable followed by stripping of the gears resulting in winding mechanism just "goes round and round" like the song. Not sure if the problem wasn't caused when I last wound it up as this time it was much harder to make the first half a turn. Perhaps i overtightened it and damaged the gearbox. If I can get it changed and retain the old one I will strip it down and see what actually happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 I suppose its necessary to keep some tension on the cable as its wound in and out, so as to keep the cable wound tightly on the reel. But again, there is nothing about it in the (Citroen) driver's handbook. There is a similar arrangement on my vacuum cleaner. The power cable is wound on to a reel inside. Sometimes the cable doesn't wind on neatly and stops before it is fully retracted, because the reel is only powered by a spring. You have to pull the cable out again, until it winds on properly. But if the cable snags inside with this arrangement we wouldn't know and just keep winding and forcing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek pringle Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Hi, I am expecting delivery anytime of a Bessacarr Fiat based motorhome any day now. How will i know if this vehicle is affected by this problem or indeed has the newer safe version of carrier?. I am obviously assuming the chassis could well have been around for some time. Any help or advice derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 terryW - 2011-03-20 9:04 AM Yes, I'm sure thats right. Tangled cable followed by stripping of the gears resulting in winding mechanism just "goes round and round" like the song. Not sure if the problem wasn't caused when I last wound it up as this time it was much harder to make the first half a turn. Perhaps i overtightened it and damaged the gearbox. If I can get it changed and retain the old one I will strip it down and see what actually happened. PS: Just wondered what type of van you have as the only Autoroller 100 (your profile) I have seen is a Ford Transit http://www.rollerteammotorhomes.co.uk/index.php/auto-roller-100.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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