Fiat 2.3 Multijet JTD 150 BHP (Euro5) 6 speed automatic gearbox

[Keithl]

Sorry Derek, looks like I didn't read Barcobird's post fully :$

 

So which manufacturer forces an engine upgrade to get Comfortmatic?

 

Keith.

[Barcobird]

Sorry guys it's not very clear in my posts about the make model etc I "assumed" because the thread was about Fiat multi jet etc.

Anyway it's a Fiat base from Pilote, I have emailed the dealer and asked for clarification on what is required and how much.

As soon as I get a reply I will let you know.

Although price has to be a factor if you are buying a new vehicle then it's probably not the time to start skimping. My preference would be for an automatic provided it does the job properly, the general feeling seems to be positive despite a few glitches. My main concern was would I be stuck in years to come with a vehicle because it is auto, again the general feeling is it would actually sell better! (lol)

[Mike88]

Derek Uzzell - 2016-08-26 9:47 AM

 

Keithl - 2016-08-26 8:52 AM

 

Derek Uzzell - 2016-08-26 8:37 AM

 

But if you have to pay extra for the 150bhp motor so that you can have Comfort-Matic, that’s a cost double-whammy

 

 

Derek,

 

You do not have to upgrade to a 150 to have ComfortMatic, according to the Fiat Professional website you can now have it on a 130...

 

http://www.fiatprofessional.co.uk/uk/Models/Ducato_Goods_Transport/Performance

 

Keith.

 

I’m well aware of that (How could you think otherwise? ;-) ) - it’s also stated in the Practical Motorhome article.

 

Barcobird said

 

“...I have a van on order with upgraded chassis and the new 130 euro 6 engine. If I want the auto box I have to upgrade to the 150 engine which would probably be better anyway...”

 

As the motorhome make and model were not stated, it would have been churlish for me to contradict that statement. For all I know whatever motorhome barcobird is buying has to have (at least) the 150bhp motor when Comfort-Matic is specified and it’s not possible to order a 130bhp motor and Comfort-Matic combination.

 

Sorry Derek. The final sentence of your post is incorrect. Autosleepers only offer the 130bhp engine with a Comfortmatic gearbox:

 

http://www.auto-sleepers.com/motorhomes/peugeot-motorhome-van-conversions-and-camper-vans/

[Tall_Mike]

We have the 130 with the automatic gearbox, - if you have the money go for the 150, I feel our van is a little underpowered although not significantly so, it just feels a bit short on hills and that bit more might be of benefit although you certainly pay for it. Auto's do absorb some of the power although maybe not so much in this configuration with a clutch.

 

I know that some rave about the Comfortmatic and go on for thousands of miles without any problems at all - ours has not been a great experience, it left us stranded with no drive in the fast lane of the M6 and again on a busy roundabout near Gloucester, I am still not 100% happy with it's action and performance and have lost confidence. - If I had the choice (my wife is disabled and has a restricted licence - 3500kg and Auto) I would have gone for the manual. Our own van (and another 2013 Autosleeper) from the same dealer experienced issues with the brake switch which is deeply wired into the ECU which I think was the cause of the issue. Fiat did step up to the mark though.

 

We spoke to an Itialian Adria MH owner who hearing of our woes advised "Only mad Italian's or true enthusiasts would buy either an Alpha Romeo or anything with a Fiat Automatic gearbox in Italy" he then collapsed with mirth much to our dismay - Although in most dealers I have been too - auto's are very rare and in demand, as a low mileage good condition van, Should sell very easily when the time comes.

[Barcobird]

I misunderstood the price list, it is not necessary to upgrade to the 150 however ........

 

"The Fiat Comfortmatic is a robotised gearbox, and you have to have the Traction plus system fitted as well."

 

[peterjl]

Hi

 

We also have the 130bph with comformatic and never experienced any underpower issues. Thus far 10,000 miles including the unmetaled roads of Iceland. Fuel consumption around 32 mpg and I don't hang around when on fast roads.

 

Hope that helps

 

Peter

 

[Dave225]

I have a Globecar with the 150 engine and Comfortmatic box, and after 6 months of use have to say, we quite like it. One has to remember it is not a true automatic, merely a computer brain changing the gears for you and as others have mentioned the change from 1st to 2nd can be a little concerning at times. I have heard of some users switching to the manual change side merely by flicking the gear stick sideways and once passed the roundabout flick back to auto mode again. The other thing which one has to get used to is that it will change down the gears as you slow down. This is what we were taught in driving school but I suspect most of us just coast to the stop.

 

Even the 150 engine will never be a racer but once it gets wound up will happily cruise at 70 or more showing about 2200 revs on the dial.

 

There were issues with early models due to wiring behind the dash being snagged but newer models are very reliable. Fleet owners use them and cover 100-200000 miles with them, so they do work.

There are 2 things which I am not so happy about. There is a Hill Assist function which is supposed to hold the brakes while you take off on a slope but it only works on slopes of 5% or more which discounts most of the times you need it, so you need to learn to use the handbrake again. There is also a UPS button which is for driving in hilly conditions. However, this changes the gears even more frequently and is best switched off. The other slightly amusing thing is if you switch to neutral when you park up it beeps at you when you switch off. Leave it in the gear you are driving in, and no beep.

 

 

All in all it is a reasonable option against a manual box.

 

By the way if you wish a laugh have a look at the following Ford video on the advantages of an auto box. Brings back the memories.

 

 

[Steve928]

Dave225 - 2016-08-26 4:04 PM

..so you need to learn to use the handbrake again.

 

Ahem. Some of us have never forgotten.. :-D

[mikebeaches]

We took delivery of a new 130hp Ducato X290-based van conversion - MGW 3,500kg - two months ago. I specifically wanted the ComfortMatic (auto clutch) gearbox and had great difficulty getting hold of one - waited 7 months for delivery.

 

We have just returned from our first proper excursion in it touring France. The van has now covered 2,200 miles.

 

First impressions are that - for me - the ConfortMatic is a huge improvement on the previous manual gearbox we had in an X250 130hp Euro 4, 3,500kg GSW van. Mainly for the relaxed driving style.

 

There was an occasion, when the van had less than 500 miles on the clock, when I thought it was somewhat 'breathless' climbing a hill - which the old van would have wizzed up. But it felt much better later with a couple of thousand miles on the clock, and hopefully will loosen up more as time goes on.

 

Although both vans are supposed to have the same power, I can't help wondering if there is a 'real world' difference between the Euro 4 and Euro 5+ engines? In other words, has the additional emission control measures on the newer van adversely affected the on road performance?

 

And yes, the Comfortmatic has its moments periodically, but no big deal so far.

 

Whatever, still very happy with the decision to go for an automatic. And perfectly satisfied with the 130 engine.

 

As an added bonus, the van conversion is much faster and more sure-footed on the autoroutes than the previous coachbuilt. The 70-75mph, indicated on the sat-nav, felt perfectly comfortable, whereas, we only used to travel at circa 60mph in the coachbuilt.

[david lloyd]

Had two Motorhomes with the comfortmatic gearbox. The first - an IH panel van conversion - had the 3.0 litre engine as it was during the 'juddergate' period so I opted for an engine/gearbox combination that did not appear to be affected. As you can imagine, it was a flying machine but very comfortable driving experience with no problems encountered.

 

Our present Chausson coachbuilt (euro5+) has the 150 engine and, although a much larger exterior, runs at a higher weight than the PVC but does not feel underpowered and gives the same comfortable driving experience as before. Our consumption at the moment is hovering around 29mpg with less than 5000 miles covered mainly on our winter trip to Spain and this may improve - certainly the power and smoothness of the engine has in that time.

 

I anticipate that come the time to change the auto bad will considerably improve the desirability for potential buyers.

 

David

[Derek Uzzell]

Mike88 - 2016-08-26 11:55 AM

 

Derek Uzzell - 2016-08-26 9:47 AM

 

Keithl - 2016-08-26 8:52 AM

 

Derek Uzzell - 2016-08-26 8:37 AM

 

But if you have to pay extra for the 150bhp motor so that you can have Comfort-Matic, that’s a cost double-whammy

 

 

Derek,

 

You do not have to upgrade to a 150 to have ComfortMatic, according to the Fiat Professional website you can now have it on a 130...

 

http://www.fiatprofessional.co.uk/uk/Models/Ducato_Goods_Transport/Performance

 

Keith.

 

I’m well aware of that (How could you think otherwise? ;-) ) - it’s also stated in the Practical Motorhome article.

 

Barcobird said

 

“...I have a van on order with upgraded chassis and the new 130 euro 6 engine. If I want the auto box I have to upgrade to the 150 engine which would probably be better anyway...”

 

As the motorhome make and model were not stated, it would have been churlish for me to contradict that statement. For all I know whatever motorhome barcobird is buying has to have (at least) the 150bhp motor when Comfort-Matic is specified and it’s not possible to order a 130bhp motor and Comfort-Matic combination.

 

Sorry Derek. The final sentence of your post is incorrect. Autosleepers only offer the 130bhp engine with a Comfortmatic gearbox:

 

http://www.auto-sleepers.com/motorhomes/peugeot-motorhome-van-conversions-and-camper-vans/

 

Mike88

 

You are misinterpreting my statement...

 

The Comfort-Matic transmission was initially offered when the Ducato X250 model was launched, but only combined with the 3.0litre motor.

 

This limitation continued until 2011 when 2.0litre, 2.3litre and 3.0litre Euro 5 motors were introduced for Ducato. Although Comfort-Matic was not available combined with the 2.0litre motor (5-speed manual gearbox only) offered in LHD Ducatos, nor with the 110bhp 2.3litre motor (6-speed manual gearbox only) offered in RHD Ducatos, from late-2011 onwards it became possible to obtain the Comfort-Matic transmission combined with the 130bhp and 150bhp 2.3litre motors as well as with the 3.0litre powerplant.

 

I hesitate to say "Everybody knows this” but you’ll see from this earlier forum thread that I was well aware of it in 2013 ;-)

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Fiat-Comfort-Matic-gearbox-advice/32598/

 

You’ve pointed out that Auto-Sleepers, as an alternative to their normal Peugeot Boxer base, offered the option of having Comfort-Matic combined only with the Fiat Ducato 130bhp motor. Consequently, if a buyer wanted an AUTO-SLEEPERS model with Comfort-Matic, it was impracticable to order from that company Comfort-Matic combined with a 150bhp motor (or 180bhp motor). But that didn’t make it impossible to order Comfort-Matic combined with 130bhp, 150bhp or 180bhp motors from a different motorhome manufacturer, nor did it preclude the possibility that a motorhome manufacturer might follow the Auto-Sleepers lead and restrict Comfort-Matic to specific Ducato motors (eg. to the 150 and/or the 180).

 

(Your A-S link now shows Comfort-Matic combined with the Fiat 150bhp motor.)

 

As Barcobird had been able to order a motorhome with a Euro 6 130bhp motor, I did wonder about him having no choice but to opt for the 150bhp motor if he wanted Comfort-Matic. But with no clue as to which make/model of motorhome he was buying there was no way to confirm whether his belief was correct. A lot of what’s confidently said on motorhome forums is questionable at best, and I’m reluctant (for politeness reasons if nothing else) to challenge such statements unless I’m certain they are wrong and I think the inaccuracy matters.

 

It’s not easy to predict the real-world performance effect of combining Comfort-Matic with the various motors where mid-2014-onwards Ducato X290s ‘motorhomes’ are concerned. Fiat has always claimed that Ducatos destined to be converted into ‘camping-cars’ have revised gear ratios (ie. different ratios to ‘commercial’ Ducatos) and there seems to be some evidence that this is so.

 

There’s also the 16” wheels/big tyres option for ‘light’ Ducato X290s to bear in mind. There’s nothing to suggest that Fiat alters a ‘light’ Ducato X290’s gear ratios when the 16” wheels are fitted instead of the standard 15” ones, but the 16” wheels/tyres option raises a Ducato’s overall gearing significantly. My 2015 Ducati-based Rapido 640 (with 15” wheels) is fairly low-geared even in 6th. I quite like this, but I do wonder what the effect on the performance would be if the vehicle were fitted with the 130bhp motor (rather than the 150bhp powerplant it has) and the 16” wheels that I could have specified when I ordered the vehicle.

 

Regarding “Traction+”, I specified this for my Rapido because - if I had not done so - driver aids like ASR and ESP would not have been provided.

 

According to this document

 

http://www.fiatprofessionalpress.co.uk/download/UK/2016/FIAT_Professional/Price_Lists/Fiat_Professional_DUCATO_Price_List_May_2016.pdf

 

ESP/Traction+ still seems to be optional on manual-transmission Euro 6 Ducatos. However, Rapido’s 2017 technical-data document (relating to Euro 6 Ducato-based models) suggests that, if the Comfort-Matic transmission is specified for a Euro 6 Ducato, ESP/Traction+ is included (as Barcobird says)..

[Mike88]

Derek

 

 

My comment derived from your statement here:

 

".......................and it’s not possible to order a 130bhp motor and Comfort-Matic combination." which suggested you were unaware that you could order a 130bhp engine with auto gearbox. While that was not your intention that is how I read it.

 

You also stated that:

 

(Your A-S link now shows Comfort-Matic combined with the Fiat 150bhp motor.)

 

You clearly missed the reference to the 130bhp engine with Comfortmatic in the list of extras in the link I I provided (third up from the bottom).

 

[tonyishuk]

Some auto box questions into the mix;

 

Are Mercedes and / or Ford base conversions available with auto boxes and are they fully auto or a solenoid workaround like Fiat ?

 

Rgds

[Derek Uzzell]

Mike88 - 2016-08-27 11:33 AM

 

Derek

 

 

My comment derived from your statement here:

 

".......................and it’s not possible to order a 130bhp motor and Comfort-Matic combination." which suggested you were unaware that you could order a 130bhp engine with auto gearbox. While that was not your intention that is how I read it.

 

You also stated that:

 

(Your A-S link now shows Comfort-Matic combined with the Fiat 150bhp motor.)

 

You clearly missed the reference to the 130bhp engine with Comfortmatic in the list of extras in the link I I provided (third up from the bottom).

 

I would have thought it was plain enough from my statement

 

“...As the motorhome make and model were not stated, it would have been churlish for me to contradict that statement. For all I know whatever motorhome barcobird is buying has to have (at least) the 150bhp motor when Comfort-Matic is specified and it’s not possible to order a 130bhp motor and Comfort-Matic combination.”

 

that I was speculating that it might not be practicable for Barcobird to order a 130bhp motor + Comfot-Matic combination for the particular motorhome he was interested in, not that I believed that a 130bhp motor + Comfort-Matic combination was unobtainable universally.

 

Keithl (having reread Barcobird’s posting) seemed able to understand what I was getting at, but obviously if the words “and it’s not possible to order a 130bhp motor and Comfort-Matic combination” are taken out of context, their original meaning alters.

 

You said yesterday “Autosleepers only offer the 130bhp engine with a Comfortmatic gearbox” and you provided a link.

 

Auto-Sleepers USED to offer only the Fiat 130bhp motor + Comfort-Matic combination, but that’s changed for Euro 6 models. Although the "Fiat Comfort-Matic130bhp engine” option (3rd up from the bottom in the “Features” list) continues to appear on the A-S webpages, you’ve overlooked the graphic-box directly above the Features list that says

 

150bhp/Fiat

Comfort-Matic

Peugeot 150bhp as

standard, or choose

the Fiat Comfort-Matic

for only £1,250

[Derek Uzzell]

tonyishuk - 2016-08-27 2:31 PM

 

Some auto box questions into the mix;

 

Are Mercedes and / or Ford base conversions available with auto boxes and are they fully auto or a solenoid workaround like Fiat ?

 

Rgds

 

I think the only automatic transmission currently offered for Mercedes Sprinters is the "7G-Tronic Plus” unit. This has a torque-converter and is not a robotised manual system like Comfort-Matic. As will be seen from this Wikipedia entry versions of the 7G-Tronic transmission have been used in Mercedes-Benz cars for quite a few years.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_7G-Tronic_transmission

 

A “SelectShift” automatic transmission for the Ford Transit is said to be imminent and is briefly described here

 

http://www.parkers.co.uk/vans/news-and-advice/2016/june/ford-transit-automatic/

 

Apparently this uses a torque-converter, so (presumably) also won’t be a robotised manual gearbox. SelectShift will be available for the latest 2.0litre “Ecoblue” motors mentioned here

 

http://www.commercialfleet.org/news/latest-news/2016/04/26/ford-launches-transit-and-transit-custom-with-new-ecoblue-engine

 

Peugeot Boxers/Citroen Relays also get 2.0litre Euro 6 motors, but I don’t know whether these have any connection to the Ford Ecoblue units, nor whether automatic transmission is planned for the near future. (I think the answers are No and No.)

 

http://www.practicalmotorhome.com/news/38886-adblue-is-euro-6-fix-for-peugeot-boxer-and-citroen-relay-vans

 

[Barcobird]

So getting back to my original question which has now changed a little, 7.5 meter van, upgraded chassis for extra payload. if I request auto box it is !500 quid then not as an option but compulsory is traction control, another grand. To pull this thing along do I need to upgrade the engine to 150 bhp at a further 1500 quid. I dont want to spend a fortune on a van and then find should I have included this or that but on the other hand I can´t afford to throw money around on something that may not be neccessary.

 

[david lloyd]

Barcobird - 2016-08-28 12:49 PM

 

So getting back to my original question which has now changed a little, 7.5 meter van, upgraded chassis for extra payload. if I request auto box it is !500 quid then not as an option but compulsory is traction control, another grand. To pull this thing along do I need to upgrade the engine to 150 bhp at a further 1500 quid. I dont want to spend a fortune on a van and then find should I have included this or that but on the other hand I can´t afford to throw money around on something that may not be neccessary.

 

It's certainly not necessary to upgrade to 150bhp if you are happy to live within the power and torque of the 130bhp. Our 7.4m Chausson, with comfortmatic box, is 150bhp and although this was the specification when we bought it at only 5 months old I would probably have specifies both if ordering from new. Our previous van was ordered new with 130bhp engine and manual transmission which I found a bit of a letdown to be honest - and it was a panel van. The Chausson is far better it terms of power, comfortable relaxed driving and by the look of it the mpg won't be far behind the previous van once we have more mileage on it. So, without being able to make your decision for you, would personally be ordering the 150bhp with comfortmatic transmission.

 

David

[Derek Uzzell]

Barcobird

 

The Comfort-Matic option is - in your case - something of a red herring.

 

As Comfort-Matic is a robotised manual gearbox, the power losses that (historically) used to afflict torque-converter automatic transmissions won’t be an issue. There is the matter of whether the Comfort-Matic transmissions fitted to 130bhp and 150bhp 2.3litre Fiat motors have the same ratios as the equivalent manual gearboxes (and whether gear ratios may have been altered for Euro 6 Ducatos) but the power at the road-wheels of a Euro 6 Ducato with a 130bhp or a 150bhp motor should be the same irrespective of whether the vehicle has a manual ‘box or Comfort-Matic.

 

What you need to decide first of all is whether automatic transmission is a ‘must have’ for you, as - if you do - you’ll have to fork out not only for Comfort-Matic and (from what you say) for Traction+ as well. Me, I’d definitely want the 150bhp motor in a 7.5m-long motorhome that will be operated at a high overall weight. I’d also want Traction+ (to get ESP, ASR, etc.) but I’d forego Comfort-Matic because I don’t need it.

[Dave225]

Steve928 - 2016-08-26 4:27 PM

 

Dave225 - 2016-08-26 4:04 PM

..so you need to learn to use the handbrake again.

 

Ahem. Some of us have never forgotten.. :-D

 

I merely make the point because my Volvo has an electric brake which automatically releases itself once you are pressing the accelerator. It makes you lazy in a nice sort of way.

[Barcobird]

David LIoyd in your opinion you would go for the auto box and 150bhp and Derek you would go for the traction control, so I might as well just tick all the boxes and hope the dealer gives me a good deal ! *-)

[Derek Uzzell]

Barcobird

 

It might be helpful (at least to me!) if you said exactly which Pilote motorhome you will be buying. (A Galaxy G741C? But who knows...?)

 

Pilote’s website allows filtering of their motorhomes by length, and models around 7.5-long are shown here

 

http://www.pilote.fr/recherchez-camping-car/__de-7-4-a-7-8-metres

 

All of these motorhomes seem to be built as standard on a Ducato ‘light’ 3500kg chassis, so I suspect that the “upgraded chassis for extra payload” you have opted for merely takes the vehicle’s maximum authorised weight to 3650kg. This is just an educated guess though, and if the Pilote model you want can be specified on a Ducato ‘heavy’ chassis (and you’ve chosen that option) the standard 130bhp motor becomes much less attractive. The heavier the motorhome and the greater its potential payload, the more likely that the 130bhp motor would struggle when the vehicle is fully loaded.

 

When I ordered my Rapido 640 in late-2014 the standard motor was the 130bhp variant. The price-list cost of upgrading to the 150bhp motor was £1160, and the Comfort-Matic and Traction+ options were priced at £1490 and £460 respectively.

 

Those figures make your £1500 extra cost for the 130bhp to 150bhp motor-upgrade and £1500 extra cost for opting for Comfort-Matic believable, but there’s a big difference between £460 and the £1000 you’ve quoted for ‘traction control’ that you say is compulsory with Comfort-Matic. Are you sure you aren’t misreading the Pilote price-list as – if Comfort-Matic cannot be provided without ‘traction control’ – it would be perverse to have ‘traction control’ listed separately where Comfort-Matic is concerned.

 

It’s very early days to be ordering a 2017 model-year motorhome, but as you’ve apparently already ordered a Pilote with an uprated chassis and 130bhp motor (and presumably have agreed pricing and have placed a deposit) I’m a mite surprised that a dealer would allow the sort of specification changes you’ve been inquiring about.

 

[david lloyd]

Derek's points above also bring up the issue of rear axle payload. We bought our Chausson at only 5 months old and, as I said earlier, it had the 150bhp engine and comfortmatic transmission - both of which were on our long list of must haves. What I didn't take account of was that it too was on the 3500kg light chassis. When I came to weigh it fully laden it was evident that it needed uprating as we were at 3840kgs!

 

The simple uprate to 3650 could have been done as a paper exercise but that would not have a) given sufficient payload and b) would not have overcome the problem that the rear axle load was 2240kgs instead of the plated 2000kg. As it is a garage model with fixed rear beds a large amount of the weight is over or behind the rear axle. All this meant either disposing of the Motorhome (which we do like for all the right reasons) and looking for an alternative with the right layout AND payload requirements or, which we did in the end, uprate the rear suspension and tyres and have it replated with a rear axle loading of 2240kg and overall weight of 3850.

 

I know this digresses from your original enquiry but it is a huge pitfall to avoid at the ordering stage if possible.

 

David

[Barcobird]

741G elec bed alko chassis uprated to 4500 130 bhp engine manual transmission

[david lloyd]

Barcobird - 2016-08-29 9:47 AM

 

741G elec bed alko chassis uprated to 4500 130 bhp engine manual transmission

 

Got the payload so definitely going for the 150bhp and Comfortmatic upgrades then?

 

David

[Mike88]

david lloyd - 2016-08-29 6:06 PM

 

Barcobird - 2016-08-29 9:47 AM

 

741G elec bed alko chassis uprated to 4500 130 bhp engine manual transmission

 

Got the payload so definitely going for the 150bhp and Comfortmatic upgrades then?

 

David

 

I'm confused (but not for the first time). According to an earlier post the van has already been ordered and Barcobird's post of 29 August suggests that is the 130bhp model with manual transmission yet he earlier stated he was going for the 150bhp engine with Comfortmatic transmission.

 

That aside I wouldn't want to drive a large van with an uprated chassis with only a 130bhp engine but we are all different I suppose. Presumably Barcobird has the licence to drive a vehicle over 3500kgs.