Press Bias

[antony1969]

John52 - 2017-05-31 7:11 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-05-31 4:22 PM

Regarding home politics I haven't said all media is biased to the left , I mentioned the Beeb

You must be pretty extreme to think the Beeb is biased to the left. The way the Beeb fawns over the Royal Family is quite disgraceful. Their coverage of the Royal Wedding had me reaching for a sick bag :-(

 

Why didn't you just turn it off

[StuartO]

Brian Kirby - 2017-05-31 6:55 PM ...Regarding Trump, I don't live in America, so don't have a strong interest. ... The fact that the Americans elected him counts for nothing, IMO. Majorities have no monopoly on being right, they are just a majority at that moment in time - then the pendulum swings again.

So you are not a democrat then?  You prefer to rely on your own interpretation and opinions about issues? You are not activist, because you personally are not threatened enough to need to be to activist and prefer instead to be a judgemental spectator?

 

Oh Brian, if only you weren't so comfortably middle class and personally unaffected, in your part of the Country, by things like immigration and criminality, you might find yourself being provoked into wanting to actually do something!  

[antony1969]

Brian Kirby - 2017-05-31 6:55 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-05-31 4:22 PM...............................Regarding home politics I haven't said all media is biased to the left , I mentioned the Beeb which surely you must agree has a slight favouring towards Labour ... If your comment was about the last US election favouritism then surely again you cannot deny the whole world and it's daughter was against POTUS Sir Donald Trump and he still managed to win ( with Russian help the left now tell us ) ... If Corbyn is good enough for the majority then he will win , if not you can't blame the right wing press for his failings

I'm not aware of this bias in the BBC. I seem to remember that under Blain Labour made similar comments about right wing bias. You can't criticise what any government does without the charge of political bias. Personally, I think all governments are open to criticism, the present government? being no exception, and the criticism should be made. The present opposition seems to me completely ineffectual, which under the circumstances borders on criminal, so who else is able to point up the stupidity and incompetence of government conduct?

 

Regarding Trump, I don't live in America, so don't have a strong interest. My personal view of the man is that he is a bit of an unsophisticated buffoon, albeit successful in property dealings. However, a successful property developer, however rich and successful, is not automatic material for the office he presently holds. How good he can be, and how well he learns his new trade, will only emerge over time. I'm not that hopeful, but prepared to be impressed in due course. The fact that the Americans elected him counts for nothing, IMO. Majorities have no monopoly on being right, they are just a majority at that moment in time - then the pendulum swings again.

 

Your view of President Trump as an "unsophisticated Buffoon" has that come from unbiased coverage or biased ?

[John52]

Brian Kirby - 2017-05-31 6:55 PM

My personal view of the man is that he is a bit of an unsophisticated buffoon, albeit successful in property dealings. However, a successful property developer, however rich and successful,.

Like Prince Charles *-)

With a vast inheritance in a rising property market you would have to be pretty dumb not to be rich and successful.

Its been calculated that if Trump had put his vast inheritance in a S&P500 tracker fund he would have made more money

[John52]

antony1969 - 2017-05-31 7:12 PM

 

John52 - 2017-05-31 7:11 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-05-31 4:22 PM

Regarding home politics I haven't said all media is biased to the left , I mentioned the Beeb

You must be pretty extreme to think the Beeb is biased to the left. The way the Beeb fawns over the Royal Family is quite disgraceful. Their coverage of the Royal Wedding had me reaching for a sick bag :-(

 

Why didn't you just turn it off

 

You couldn't get away from it.

Sir Jimmy Savile OBE KCSG was a top BBC man and spent Christmas at Chequers with Thatcher. And you think they are left wing *-)

[antony1969]

John52 - 2017-05-31 7:16 PM

 

Brian Kirby - 2017-05-31 6:55 PM

My personal view of the man is that he is a bit of an unsophisticated buffoon, albeit successful in property dealings. However, a successful property developer, however rich and successful,.

Like Prince Charles *-)

With a vast inheritance in a rising property market you would have to be pretty dumb not to be rich and successful.

Its been calculated that if Trump had put his vast inheritance in a S&P500 tracker fund he would have made more money

 

Now depending which side of that argument you want to listen to its either true or untrue https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-Donald-Trump-would-have-made-more-money-by-investing-in-a-mutual-fund-rather-than-becoming-a-business-man

[Barryd999]

antony1969 - 2017-05-31 7:29 PM

 

John52 - 2017-05-31 7:16 PM

 

Brian Kirby - 2017-05-31 6:55 PM

My personal view of the man is that he is a bit of an unsophisticated buffoon, albeit successful in property dealings. However, a successful property developer, however rich and successful,.

Like Prince Charles *-)

With a vast inheritance in a rising property market you would have to be pretty dumb not to be rich and successful.

Its been calculated that if Trump had put his vast inheritance in a S&P500 tracker fund he would have made more money

 

 

Now depending which side of that argument you want to listen to its either true or untrue https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-Donald-Trump-would-have-made-more-money-by-investing-in-a-mutual-fund-rather-than-becoming-a-business-man

 

 

Flipping heck Antony! I cannot believe your defending that mad old Fruitcake again. You should watch this video

[antony1969]

Barryd999 - 2017-05-31 8:50 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-05-31 7:29 PM

 

John52 - 2017-05-31 7:16 PM

 

Brian Kirby - 2017-05-31 6:55 PM

My personal view of the man is that he is a bit of an unsophisticated buffoon, albeit successful in property dealings. However, a successful property developer, however rich and successful,.

Like Prince Charles *-)

With a vast inheritance in a rising property market you would have to be pretty dumb not to be rich and successful.

Its been calculated that if Trump had put his vast inheritance in a S&P500 tracker fund he would have made more money

 

 

Now depending which side of that argument you want to listen to its either true or untrue https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-Donald-Trump-would-have-made-more-money-by-investing-in-a-mutual-fund-rather-than-becoming-a-business-man

 

 

Flipping heck Antony! I cannot believe your defending that mad old Fruitcake again. You should watch this video

 

Haha ... You got me Porky (lol) ... No bias where Kims concerned ... She sure is sweet ... I love her

[Brian Kirby]

StuartO - 2017-05-31 6:45 PM.......................My impression of you is that of a left-leaning liberal rather than an untainted centerist Brian, so it doesn't surprise me too much that you think the common bias among newspapers is towards the right!

 

I wasn't aiming to list all the left-leaning publications but aren't there lots of others if you include the New Statesman and isn't there one called the Socialist Worker or some such?  Do you really think The Times is right-leaning rather than just Murdoch-driven?

 

Well, on the first point, I rather thought you might have formed that view of me, which was, after all, my point. I am to the left of you, but as that puts you to the right of me, which puts me within spit of the centre, doesn't it? :-D

 

My original comment related to the daily papers, including daily evening papers, of which the New Statesman is not one. I have no idea of the frequency of publication of the Socialist Worker, I've never even seen one. I used to read the Times before Murdoch got hold of it, when I think it could fairly have been described a neutral. Murdoch wrecked it, and it is definitely now, IMO, right biased. Less so than the Telegraph, but not by much, IMO.

 

But as I said Stuart, perceived bias in others is judged via the prism of our own personal biases which, of course none of us possesses, do we? :-D

[Brian Kirby]

StuartO - 2017-05-31 7:14 PM

1 So you are not a democrat then? 

2 You prefer to rely on your own interpretation and opinions about issues?

3 You are not activist, because you personally are not threatened enough to need to be to activist and prefer instead to be a judgemental spectator?

4 Oh Brian, if only you weren't so comfortably middle class and personally unaffected, in your part of the Country, by things like immigration and criminality, you might find yourself being provoked into wanting to actually do something!

1. I am, but I prefer the version of democracy we have evolved in most western countries. You appear to be inferring that government by referendum as the only form of democracy. The fact that majorities have no monopoly on being right is demonstrable. After a few year of one party in government, they decide they were wrong and elect the other. Were they right, that wouldn't happen, would it! :-D

2. Of course, don't you? I would have hoped you would. Who needs telling what to think?

3. To be a political activist, one needs to have some belief in the "rightness" of a political cause. In what political cause, of those presently on offer, should I so fervently believe? None of the present bunch of parties, as well as most (but by no means all) of their leaderships, inspire confidence in me they have the first idea what to do under present circumstances. Show me some signs of competence, and I'll get active.

4. Probably true, but see 3 above! :-D

[Brian Kirby]

antony1969 - 2017-05-31 7:14 PM.........................Your view of President Trump as an "unsophisticated Buffoon" has that come from unbiased coverage or biased ?

Both, I suspect, Antony, with the bias being both for and against - plus what I have seen of both Trump Tower and his house, and of his attempts to date to handle the presidency of the USA. But, as I said, it is early days yet, and I'm prepared to accept that he may eventually prove those initial impressions misleading.

[antony1969]

Brian Kirby - 2017-05-31 6:55 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-05-31 4:22 PM...............................Regarding home politics I haven't said all media is biased to the left , I mentioned the Beeb which surely you must agree has a slight favouring towards Labour ... If your comment was about the last US election favouritism then surely again you cannot deny the whole world and it's daughter was against POTUS Sir Donald Trump and he still managed to win ( with Russian help the left now tell us ) ... If Corbyn is good enough for the majority then he will win , if not you can't blame the right wing press for his failings

I'm not aware of this bias in the BBC. I seem to remember that under Blain Labour made similar comments about right wing bias. You can't criticise what any government does without the charge of political bias. Personally, I think all governments are open to criticism, the present government? being no exception, and the criticism should be made. The present opposition seems to me completely ineffectual, which under the circumstances borders on criminal, so who else is able to point up the stupidity and incompetence of government conduct?

 

Regarding Trump, I don't live in America, so don't have a strong interest. My personal view of the man is that he is a bit of an unsophisticated buffoon, albeit successful in property dealings. However, a successful property developer, however rich and successful, is not automatic material for the office he presently holds. How good he can be, and how well he learns his new trade, will only emerge over time. I'm not that hopeful, but prepared to be impressed in due course. The fact that the Americans elected him counts for nothing, IMO. Majorities have no monopoly on being right, they are just a majority at that moment in time - then the pendulum swings again.

 

 

Others concerned about BBC bias today Brian ... https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3693585/bbc-election-debate-2017-slammed-biased/ ... Having watched it myself if that audience was representative of the voting public then Labour are going to win the election by a country mile ... BBC at its best but what else would we expect ... The difference is with the Beeb is the fact we all have to pay for its bias

[John52]

I only saw the first half because parked on the front in Blackpool the wifi kept cutting out, and it was such a lovely evening I gave up and went out to enjoy it.

If you believe the Tory press when it says Jeremy Corbyn is unpopular,(like when they said he was a 200-1 outsider for the party leadership) I suppose you must believe the audience is biased when they applaud him.

But you can't make a fair judgement on that because Theresa May wasn't there to give a comparison of the applause given. She claimed she wanted to speak directly to voters and answer their questions' But thats exactly what the others were doing on the programme. So its not really a credible excuse is it?

PS: Did they get on to the housing and housing benefit crisis? (£35bn and rising was the last figure I heard)

[antony1969]

John52 - 2017-06-01 7:27 AM

 

I only saw the first half because parked on the front in Blackpool the wifi kept cutting out, and it was such a lovely evening I gave up and went out to enjoy it.

If you believe the Tory press when it says Jeremy Corbyn is unpopular,(like when they said he was a 200-1 outsider for the party leadership) I suppose you must believe the audience is biased when they applaud him.

But you can't make a fair judgement on that because Theresa May wasn't there to give a comparison of the applause given. She claimed she wanted to speak directly to voters and answer their questions' But thats exactly what the others were doing on the programme. So its not really a credible excuse is it?

 

Im not the one who keeps making excuses ... It was obvious to all to see the bias in the audience ... My point is that bias works both ways as you have the right and left wing press and the left also has the countries largest broadcaster and internet news provider and radio broadcaster that we all pay for so I really don't know why you whinge

PS , no not really and they unfortunately didn't get on to Corbyn and Mcdonnells terrorist sympathies either with numerous terrorist groups or his parties anti-Semitism or Diane Abbott hatred of white British or her claim the British invented racism ... Only so much the Beeb could push I suppose

[John52]

antony1969 - 2017-06-01 7:37 AM

 

John52 - 2017-06-01 7:27 AM

 

I only saw the first half because parked on the front in Blackpool the wifi kept cutting out, and it was such a lovely evening I gave up and went out to enjoy it.

If you believe the Tory press when it says Jeremy Corbyn is unpopular,(like when they said he was a 200-1 outsider for the party leadership) I suppose you must believe the audience is biased when they applaud him.

But you can't make a fair judgement on that because Theresa May wasn't there to give a comparison of the applause given. She claimed she wanted to speak directly to voters and answer their questions' But thats exactly what the others were doing on the programme. So its not really a credible excuse is it?

 

Im not the one who keeps making excuses ... It was obvious to all to see the bias in the audience ... My point is that bias works both ways as you have the right and left wing press and the left also has the countries largest broadcaster and internet news provider and radio broadcaster that we all pay for so I really don't know why you whinge

PS , no not really and they unfortunately didn't get on to Corbyn and Mcdonnells terrorist sympathies either with numerous terrorist groups or his parties anti-Semitism or Diane Abbott hatred of white British or her claim the British invented racism ... Only so much the Beeb could push I suppose

 

But you would have to be right wing biased to think the BBC is left wing biased (lol)

A left wing audience would surely have raised the housing crisis as a priority.

[John52]

antony1969 - 2017-06-01 7:37 AM

Im not the one who keeps making excuses ..

No but Theresa May is.

Doesn't Corbyn deserve applause just for turning up when she didn't?

PS: She reminds me of the Royal Family in just making stage managed appearances when it suits them, but refusing to answer unscripted questions in public *-)

[antony1969]

John52 - 2017-06-01 8:11 AM

 

antony1969 - 2017-06-01 7:37 AM

 

John52 - 2017-06-01 7:27 AM

 

I only saw the first half because parked on the front in Blackpool the wifi kept cutting out, and it was such a lovely evening I gave up and went out to enjoy it.

If you believe the Tory press when it says Jeremy Corbyn is unpopular,(like when they said he was a 200-1 outsider for the party leadership) I suppose you must believe the audience is biased when they applaud him.

But you can't make a fair judgement on that because Theresa May wasn't there to give a comparison of the applause given. She claimed she wanted to speak directly to voters and answer their questions' But thats exactly what the others were doing on the programme. So its not really a credible excuse is it?

 

Im not the one who keeps making excuses ... It was obvious to all to see the bias in the audience ... My point is that bias works both ways as you have the right and left wing press and the left also has the countries largest broadcaster and internet news provider and radio broadcaster that we all pay for so I really don't know why you whinge

PS , no not really and they unfortunately didn't get on to Corbyn and Mcdonnells terrorist sympathies either with numerous terrorist groups or his parties anti-Semitism or Diane Abbott hatred of white British or her claim the British invented racism ... Only so much the Beeb could push I suppose

 

But you would have to be right wing biased to think the BBC is left wing biased (lol)

A left wing audience would surely have raised the housing crisis as a priority.

 

Explain why you would have to be right wing bias ... surely if an audience that before the debate started was said to be representative of all but proved not to be that has nothing to do with right wing bias for noting that ... As for a left wing audience bringing up housing , you watched it the questions asked by the audience had obviously been given the nod before it started

[antony1969]

John52 - 2017-06-01 8:17 AM

 

antony1969 - 2017-06-01 7:37 AM

Im not the one who keeps making excuses ..

No but Theresa May is.

Doesn't Corbyn deserve applause just for turning up when she didn't?

PS: She reminds me of the Royal Family in just making stage managed appearances when it suits them, but refusing to answer unscripted questions in public *-)

 

You've lost me ... Theresa May making excuses for what

[John52]

antony1969 - 2017-06-01 9:07 AM

You've lost me ... Theresa May making excuses for what

For not turning up to speak to us.

A left wing audience it would have raised the housing crisis as a priority. Wheras a right wing audience wouldn't as they tend to profit from it.

[StuartO]

John52 - 2017-06-01 8:17 AM  .... Doesn't Corbyn deserve applause just for turning up when she didn't?PS: She reminds me of the Royal Family in just making stage managed appearances when it suits them, but refusing to answer unscripted questions in public

The BBC commentators suggested that Jeremy Corbyn turned up at the last minute as a tactical ploy, so he could rub Teresa May's nose in it for not doing so and i think that makes sense.  The self-declared "only ever a nice guy in discussion" has learned to rough himself up in order to make more challenging attacks and counter attacks, such as the "Have you ever been to a Food Bank" to Angela Rudd; you could see him switching into outraged mode as he came out with this.  Of course she knows what a food bank is but making an accusation like that, even though that discussion wasn't about food banks, plays well to his target slice of the electorate.

 

I suspect Teresa May is sticking to her guns and refusing to take part in leadership debates because they would turn into pot-shot sessions aimed mainly at her and the other parties will benefit simply by appearing to be challenging while she can only lose out no matter how well she responds about the issues.  The presenters want the debate to get angry and aggressive to deliver good television so tactically it makes sense for the sitting Prime Minister to stay away from a bun fight of that sort.

 

And on the subject of stage managed appearances aren't all the politicians, especially the leaders, trying to rehearse and reinforce their main messages in the context of favourable audiences as far as they can?  You don't see Theresa May taking the risk of knocking on doors on council estates on camera and you don't see Jeremy Corbyn knocking on doors in well-heeled areas because it would be on the TV that night with sensationalist coverage if someone opened the door and told them to F Off.

 

And of course the Royals choose which invitations they accept as engagements with broadly similar considerations - it's risk management and common sense rather than laziness.

 

[antony1969]

John52 - 2017-06-01 9:15 AM

 

antony1969 - 2017-06-01 9:07 AM

You've lost me ... Theresa May making excuses for what

For not turning up to speak to us.

A left wing audience it would have raised the housing crisis as a priority. Wheras a right wing audience wouldn't as they tend to profit from it.

 

But she always said she was never going to do it so why would she make an excuse up ???

So the audience was made up of right wing landlords and home owners ???

 

[Barryd999]

StuartO - 2017-06-01 9:29 AM

John52 - 2017-06-01 8:17 AM  .... Doesn't Corbyn deserve applause just for turning up when she didn't?PS: She reminds me of the Royal Family in just making stage managed appearances when it suits them, but refusing to answer unscripted questions in public

The BBC commentators suggested that Jeremy Corbyn turned up at the last minute as a tactical ploy, so he could rub Teresa May's nose in it for not doing so and i think that makes sense.  The self-declared "only ever a nice guy in discussion" has learned to rough himself up in order to make more challenging attacks and counter attacks, such as the "Have you ever been to a Food Bank" to Angela Rudd; you could see him switching into outraged mode as he came out with this.  Of course she knows what a food bank is but making an accusation like that, even though that discussion wasn't about food banks, plays well to his target slice of the electorate.

 

I suspect Teresa May is sticking to her guns and refusing to take part in leadership debates because they would turn into pot-shot sessions aimed mainly at her and the other parties will benefit simply by appearing to be challenging while she can only lose out no matter how well she responds about the issues.  The presenters want the debate to get angry and aggressive to deliver good television so tactically it makes sense for the sitting Prime Minister to stay away from a bun fight of that sort.

 

And on the subject of stage managed appearances aren't all the politicians, especially the leaders, trying to rehearse and reinforce their main messages in the context of favourable audiences as far as they can?  You don't see Theresa May taking the risk of knocking on doors on council estates on camera and you don't see Jeremy Corbyn knocking on doors in well-heeled areas because it would be on the TV that night with sensationalist coverage if someone opened the door and told them to F Off.

 

And of course the Royals choose which invitations they accept as engagements with broadly similar considerations - it's risk management and common sense rather than laziness.

Maybe in the past but Im not so sure now. I live in what you might call a "Well heeled" area and talking to people there are a lot that have turned against the Tories mainly because of Brexit and also because of what some describe as a worrying move further to the right. People here who have turned against the Tories will be forced to vote Labour as Lib/Dems here will be a wasted vote. Our ward is clearly one they want to fight over judging by the amount of personalised sickly and annoying letters I am getting from Theresa May all on very high quality stationery I might add. *-) I think she hasnt taken part in the debates partly because they thought it was a done deal and partly because I reckon she isnt "Strong and Stable" but weak and wobbly and I think she would fall apart under proper pressure. It may well prove to be an unwise decision.

[Bulletguy]

antony1969 - 2017-06-01 10:44 AM

 

John52 - 2017-06-01 9:15 AM

 

antony1969 - 2017-06-01 9:07 AM

You've lost me ... Theresa May making excuses for what

For not turning up to speak to us.

A left wing audience it would have raised the housing crisis as a priority. Wheras a right wing audience wouldn't as they tend to profit from it.

 

But she always said she was never going to do it so why would she make an excuse up ???

So the audience was made up of right wing landlords and home owners ???

As others noted, had Corbyn refused to debate with May, that would have been jumped on immediately. I was surprised by her response and even had i been a May supporter i would not be content with her attitude. It's since been mentioned about making it compulsory for all political leaders to take part in future 'live' debates and personally i don't think that's a bad idea.

 

Corbyn should still have entered the debate though with one proviso......a podium with TM's name on. Viewers could draw their own conclusions from that.

 

[antony1969]

Bulletguy - 2017-06-01 1:07 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-06-01 10:44 AM

 

John52 - 2017-06-01 9:15 AM

 

antony1969 - 2017-06-01 9:07 AM

You've lost me ... Theresa May making excuses for what

For not turning up to speak to us.

A left wing audience it would have raised the housing crisis as a priority. Wheras a right wing audience wouldn't as they tend to profit from it.

 

But she always said she was never going to do it so why would she make an excuse up ???

So the audience was made up of right wing landlords and home owners ???

As others noted, had Corbyn refused to debate with May, that would have been jumped on immediately. I was surprised by her response and even had i been a May supporter i would not be content with her attitude. It's since been mentioned about making it compulsory for all political leaders to take part in future 'live' debates and personally i don't think that's a bad idea.

 

Corbyn should still have entered the debate though with one proviso......a podium with TM's name on. Viewers could draw their own conclusions from that.

 

But Corbyn did refuse to debate only to go back on what he said ... She however stuck to her guns ... Your clutching at straws , if Corbyn won last night because she didn't show then thats good for you and if they had a head to head which John believes Corbyn would win then thats also good for you so I don't get what the problem is ... If the electorate are so disgusted at her no show then they'll give her a kicking next week ... Lets see

[Barryd999]

The criteria and vetting for the debate apparently was quite comprehensive.

 

 

155 people recruited for audience of 134

Two-phase online and telephone approach to recruitment

Audience members selected using detailed questionnaire designed by ComRes and approved by BBC

Adults who campaigned at any election from 2014 filtered out

Conservative and Labour had the largest share of supporters in the room

Smaller parties supported by appropriately lower number

50:50 split of Remain and Leave voters at EU referendum

Audience members contacted by phone and rescreened on key questions to ensure consistency with previous answers

 

Maybe it wasnt biased its just that everything Amber Rudd and Paul Nutjob said was just complete Tosh and the people have woken up to the fact that actually unless your a large corporation or super wealthy the Tories are no longer the party for you.

 

TM not turning up I Reckon has been severely damaging for her. I think they are in trouble and rightly so.

 

I thoroughly enjoyed the debate, it showed the Tories up for what they are which is not a party for the people. I am not saying the others are perfect either but the Tories have to be stopped. I Thought Tim Farron was superb. :D