Brian Kirby Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 antony1969 - 2017-11-29 7:39 PM........................ 1 Well I never said 50 Brian , you did so maybe the OPs original post title is correct , a fail on your behalf ... 2 What have I said to make you believe I resent the help , something in my mind ? ... 3 What makes you believe they would integrate more than the Muslims that are already here ? ... 4 I thought you might man up Brian and apologise for your all in my mind remark ... Then again pigs might fly 1 No, Antony, I didn't, I quoted it from your local paper. I asked you if you had a better figure, and you hadn't. 2 Your heavily sarcastic (I assume it was sarcasm) comment that "They must get a lot of one on one attention Brian , mind the poor darlings do deserve it". 3 I didn't express such a belief, I commented that it might help them to integrate. Which is more likely to foster integration; provide advice and counselling, or provide none? 4 Why? I've still no idea of the scale of the actual problem, how it manifests, or how closely that matches the problem as you see it. You have been on about Muslims for the past seven years, in any string, on almost any subject. They seem to be your "special subject", almost to the point of obsession. Yet, over that whole period, and despite this apparently intense preoccupation with the impact of Muslims on Huddersfield, you seem never to have taken the trouble to check the facts or gather the information. So, a simple question, how am I supposed to react? Am I supposed to just take the word of a total stranger who makes claims that he cannot substantiate with supporting evidence? Am I not expected to run a quick check on those claims to see if I can find the missing evidence and, when I can't, am I not supposed to say so, and invite the total stranger to convince me of his case? And when the best he can manage is a list of organisations that provide support and counselling services to migrants, still with no indication of the numbers involved, am I supposed to fall on my face and beg his forgiveness for saying "I'm sorry Antony, but In the absence of any further or better information from you (as the local expert), my conclusion is that Huddersfield is not overwhelmed as you claim, and that any "overwhelming" you claim to see exists only in your imagination." That statement begins: "I'm sorry Antony" and I remain sorry to have reached that conclusion, but I simply don't see evidence for the problem as you portray it. If it is as bad as you say it is, why can't I find widespread reference to it from all over Huddersfield, Kirklees, or Yorkshire? So, at the expense of repeating myself, I'm sorry, but I remain unconvinced of a problem on the scale you appear to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 antony1969 - 2017-11-29 4:44 PM..........................Don't forget to answer my question Bullet Antony, as this seems to be bothering you (understandably) look at your profile, do a little Google search with what you find, and then use Google earth. You may wish to change your profile. My lips are sealed! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 RogerC - 2017-11-29 9:33 PMBrian Kirby - 2017-11-28 5:47 PM I hope you're equally versed in both testaments of the Bible and the Talmud, Dave, as you may otherwise be frightening yourself by not having the full perspective. All these books were written more than 1,400 years ago (in two cases about 1,600 years ago), in the middle east, when times, laws, and practises were starkly different to today. I think their uncompromising attitudes, if read literally, have the capacity to shock almost anyone brought up on notions of modern governance, legality, and democracy. In the wrong hands, all have the capacity to justify mass violence when read, or preached, selectively.Sorry folks...off topic I acknowledge (sorry) but I felt the 'need'......I think that comment gives an opening to part of the 'Islamist Jihad' that the world is suffering from in present times.Part of the problem is those who are 'processed' through the training camps in the lawless regions of Waziristan, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Somalia, Balochistan etc etc are taught their 'hatred' by Mullas/Clerics who quite often themselves can not read. The practice in these places is one of handing down 'knowledge' over the generations through word of mouth.Extract from The New Oxonian:Everything these clerics oppose—from freedom of conscience to freedom of marriage to educational equality for women–is rooted in a civilization that a now dead Islamic civilization tried to bury in the eleventh century. Wars, caliphs, ambition, and eventually desuetude combined to defeat it.This stunning decline in clerical literacy has reached a crisis point in some countries like Kyrgyzstan where the number of trained mosque minders is steadily decreasing, and a few serious scholars now worry that misinterpretations of Islam could lead to an increase in the number of religious radicals. So I suggest that whilst there are those who can read and are able to understand these texts are, one hopes, in the main of a balanced mindset and not radicalised. Clearly there are those who can read and are intent on distorting their 'book' (Abu Hamza springs to mind) but unfortunately it is Islam that has more than it's fair share of illiterate nut jobs in places of influence and power.The bottom line.....what chance of being able to read 'literally'?P.S. As you mention the Bible and Talmud it is interesting that followers/adherents to either of those books are not hell bent on the conversion or destruction of those of a different faith or faithless.Quite so, Roger, I agree with that analysis. It is what is done by the zealots that we should worry about much more than what is written in ancient religious texts. My references to the other religions was for balance, because one should not forget that all have committed atrocities of similar magnitude in the past, in the name of religion. It is what happens when zealots (extremists, fanatics) begin attaching absolute definitions to texts translated by men from now dead languages, and using the promise of eternal salvation as inspiration, while offering protection from eternal damnation if the unbelievers/heretics are summarily despatched. Civilisation provides a remarkably thin veneer over our capacity for horribly inventive brutality. This is revealed when enough people become convinced of the absolute need to destroy a perceived enemy. Not much changes, does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Brian Kirby - 2017-11-30 5:13 PM antony1969 - 2017-11-29 4:44 PM..........................Don't forget to answer my question Bullet Antony, as this seems to be bothering you (understandably) look at your profile, do a little Google search with what you find, and then use Google earth. You may wish to change your profile. My lips are sealed! :-) Huddersfields a big city Brian ... To guess where one of the inhabitants of that city live to the exact mile is pretty damn good ... If your lips are sealed though that would be good if you mean it ... If someone has looked into where I live because my email is on my profile then why would they do that ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Brian ... Please accept my apology ... Ive had a glass or two of cheap Aldi wine with my meal and misread your post ... I apologise for my response and actually appreciate you pointing out something that I maybe shouldn't have put originally on my profile ... Thankyou and once again apologise for a pathetic response Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 antony1969 - 2017-11-30 8:08 PM Brian ... Please accept my apology ... Ive had a glass or two of cheap Aldi wine with my meal and misread your post ... I apologise for my response and actually appreciate you pointing out something that I maybe shouldn't have put originally on my profile ... Thankyou and once again apologise for a pathetic response Ive posted your address as the hosts for Saturdays Huddersfield Anti Brexit, one armed Lesbian, Muslim, Jeremy Corbyn worship society annual pish up. Im coming as well with me guitar to sing Lily Allen songs. No, dont thank me. (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Barryd999 - 2017-11-30 8:21 PM antony1969 - 2017-11-30 8:08 PM Brian ... Please accept my apology ... Ive had a glass or two of cheap Aldi wine with my meal and misread your post ... I apologise for my response and actually appreciate you pointing out something that I maybe shouldn't have put originally on my profile ... Thankyou and once again apologise for a pathetic response Ive posted your address as the hosts for Saturdays Huddersfield Anti Brexit, one armed Lesbian, Muslim, Jeremy Corbyn worship society annual pish up. Im coming as well with me guitar to sing Lily Allen songs. No, dont thank me. (lol) Well Bullet will be here ... He's got it fixed into his satnav ... I have an open door policy here at Corbyn Cottage ... Will you sing my favourite Lily Allen song F%ck You specially for your boyfriend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerC Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Brian Kirby - 2017-11-30 5:36 PMRogerC - 2017-11-29 9:33 PMBrian Kirby - 2017-11-28 5:47 PM I hope you're equally versed in both testaments of the Bible and the Talmud, Dave, as you may otherwise be frightening yourself by not having the full perspective. All these books were written more than 1,400 years ago (in two cases about 1,600 years ago), in the middle east, when times, laws, and practises were starkly different to today. I think their uncompromising attitudes, if read literally, have the capacity to shock almost anyone brought up on notions of modern governance, legality, and democracy. In the wrong hands, all have the capacity to justify mass violence when read, or preached, selectively. Sorry folks...off topic I acknowledge (sorry) but I felt the 'need'...... I think that comment gives an opening to part of the 'Islamist Jihad' that the world is suffering from in present times.Part of the problem is those who are 'processed' through the training camps in the lawless regions of Waziristan, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Somalia, Balochistan etc etc are taught their 'hatred' by Mullas/Clerics who quite often themselves can not read. The practice in these places is one of handing down 'knowledge' over the generations through word of mouth. Extract from The New Oxonian:Everything these clerics oppose—from freedom of conscience to freedom of marriage to educational equality for women–is rooted in a civilization that a now dead Islamic civilization tried to bury in the eleventh century. Wars, caliphs, ambition, and eventually desuetude combined to defeat it. This stunning decline in clerical literacy has reached a crisis point in some countries like Kyrgyzstan where the number of trained mosque minders is steadily decreasing, and a few serious scholars now worry that misinterpretations of Islam could lead to an increase in the number of religious radicals. So I suggest that whilst there are those who can read and are able to understand these texts are, one hopes, in the main of a balanced mindset and not radicalised. Clearly there are those who can read and are intent on distorting their 'book' (Abu Hamza springs to mind) but unfortunately it is Islam that has more than it's fair share of illiterate nut jobs in places of influence and power.The bottom line.....what chance of being able to read 'literally'? P.S. As you mention the Bible and Talmud it is interesting that followers/adherents to either of those books are not hell bent on the conversion or destruction of those of a different faith or faithless.Quite so, Roger, I agree with that analysis. It is what is done by the zealots that we should worry about much more than what is written in ancient religious texts. My references to the other religions was for balance, because one should not forget that all have committed atrocities of similar magnitude in the past, in the name of religion. It is what happens when zealots (extremists, fanatics) begin attaching absolute definitions to texts translated by men from now dead languages, and using the promise of eternal salvation as inspiration, while offering protection from eternal damnation if the unbelievers/heretics are summarily despatched. Civilisation provides a remarkably thin veneer over our capacity for horribly inventive brutality. This is revealed when enough people become convinced of the absolute need to destroy a perceived enemy. Not much changes, does it? Unfortunately not. The West has fortunately moved on in terms of tolerance (to a degree) whereas unfortunately the 'Stans and lawless' regions of the planet inhabited by (sadly) those primarily of the Islamist variations of religious following are still mired in illiteracy, underdevelopment, society based on tales handed down over generations etc. Some places still exist and function as they did hundreds of years ago....except of course they now have easy access to Kalashnikovs and explosives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 30, 2017 Author Share Posted November 30, 2017 RogerC - 2017-11-30 8:47 PMBrian Kirby - 2017-11-30 5:36 PMRogerC - 2017-11-29 9:33 PMBrian Kirby - 2017-11-28 5:47 PM I hope you're equally versed in both testaments of the Bible and the Talmud, Dave, as you may otherwise be frightening yourself by not having the full perspective. All these books were written more than 1,400 years ago (in two cases about 1,600 years ago), in the middle east, when times, laws, and practises were starkly different to today. I think their uncompromising attitudes, if read literally, have the capacity to shock almost anyone brought up on notions of modern governance, legality, and democracy. In the wrong hands, all have the capacity to justify mass violence when read, or preached, selectively.Sorry folks...off topic I acknowledge (sorry) but I felt the 'need'......I think that comment gives an opening to part of the 'Islamist Jihad' that the world is suffering from in present times.Part of the problem is those who are 'processed' through the training camps in the lawless regions of Waziristan, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Somalia, Balochistan etc etc are taught their 'hatred' by Mullas/Clerics who quite often themselves can not read. The practice in these places is one of handing down 'knowledge' over the generations through word of mouth.Extract from The New Oxonian:Everything these clerics oppose—from freedom of conscience to freedom of marriage to educational equality for women–is rooted in a civilization that a now dead Islamic civilization tried to bury in the eleventh century. Wars, caliphs, ambition, and eventually desuetude combined to defeat it.This stunning decline in clerical literacy has reached a crisis point in some countries like Kyrgyzstan where the number of trained mosque minders is steadily decreasing, and a few serious scholars now worry that misinterpretations of Islam could lead to an increase in the number of religious radicals. So I suggest that whilst there are those who can read and are able to understand these texts are, one hopes, in the main of a balanced mindset and not radicalised. Clearly there are those who can read and are intent on distorting their 'book' (Abu Hamza springs to mind) but unfortunately it is Islam that has more than it's fair share of illiterate nut jobs in places of influence and power.The bottom line.....what chance of being able to read 'literally'?P.S. As you mention the Bible and Talmud it is interesting that followers/adherents to either of those books are not hell bent on the conversion or destruction of those of a different faith or faithless.Quite so, Roger, I agree with that analysis. It is what is done by the zealots that we should worry about much more than what is written in ancient religious texts. My references to the other religions was for balance, because one should not forget that all have committed atrocities of similar magnitude in the past, in the name of religion. It is what happens when zealots (extremists, fanatics) begin attaching absolute definitions to texts translated by men from now dead languages, and using the promise of eternal salvation as inspiration, while offering protection from eternal damnation if the unbelievers/heretics are summarily despatched. Civilisation provides a remarkably thin veneer over our capacity for horribly inventive brutality. This is revealed when enough people become convinced of the absolute need to destroy a perceived enemy. Not much changes, does it?Unfortunately not. The West has fortunately moved on in terms of tolerance (to a degree) whereas unfortunately the 'Stans and lawless' regions of the planet inhabited by (sadly) those primarily of the Islamist variations of religious following are still mired in illiteracy, underdevelopment, society based on tales handed down over generations etc. Some places still exist and function as they did hundreds of years ago....except of course they now have easy access to Kalashnikovs and explosives.Yep those redneck NRA Yankee folks love their Kalashnikovs........they're only for target shooting at the local range .....naturally. ;-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lND51FkLuFUhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNAohtjG14ceven kids......what the heck.....it's only a lil' pop gunhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUNoVs7be_0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Bulletguy - 2017-11-30 9:33 PM even kids......what the heck.....it's only a lil' pop gun Nothing like those nice little ISIS Muslim kids who get taught how to chop peoples arms of with swords eh Bullet ? :-| .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 antony1969 - 2017-11-30 8:08 PM Brian ... Please accept my apology ... Ive had a glass or two of cheap Aldi wine with my meal and misread your post ... I apologise for my response and actually appreciate you pointing out something that I maybe shouldn't have put originally on my profile ... Thankyou and once again apologise for a pathetic response No need Antony. I should have PM'd you rather than putting Delphic clues on the forum! Glad you worked it out and removed the link. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 Brian Kirby - 2017-12-01 2:55 PM antony1969 - 2017-11-30 8:08 PM Brian ... Please accept my apology ... Ive had a glass or two of cheap Aldi wine with my meal and misread your post ... I apologise for my response and actually appreciate you pointing out something that I maybe shouldn't have put originally on my profile ... Thankyou and once again apologise for a pathetic response No need Antony. I should have PM'd you rather than putting Delphic clues on the forum! Glad you worked it out and removed the link. :-) Well once again and with no qualms about making public apologies I will again apologise for my initial light headed response and say trhankyou for the nod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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