Downing St condemns Trumps hateful Tweets

[RogerC]

Violet1956 - 2017-11-30 5:09 PM

RogerC - 2017-11-30 4:32 PM

colin - 2017-11-30 10:17 AM

StuartO - 2017-11-30 9:06 AMOn Radio 4 this morning an American who thinks we should wake up to the need to deal with the muslim threat was being challenged about supporting the disemination of videos showing muslims doing threatening things and the interviewer kept on and on about the inaccuracy of a statement that one video about a Dutch muslim doing something horrid was hate-filled and inaccurate because the particular muslim was Dutch born and not a migrant.  There was no suggestion that the muslim's horrid actions were misrepresented yet the BBC Interviewer was trying to discredit the American and the act of diseminating the video purely because of the (somantic?) inaccuracy about his migrant status.  As the American said, does it matter whether he was a first, second or third generation immigrant, or is it his actions (and the fact that he is a muslin, as a factor in his motivation) we should be taking serious note of?

 

I don't understand why we are supposed to ignore threatenning behaviour by muslims, acting as muslims, even if some muslims or even most muslims aren't behaving badly.

Because a person is Muslin does not mean any particular act is done in the name of Islam.Would you say that a white thug who says he is CofE represents Christians?Yes there are problems in some areas, but so is there with Roman Catholics and Protestants.

Quite correct Colin...not all muslims are adherents to the fanatical sects or beliefs that cause so many to carry out acts so vile and unfathomable in any society.  However you don't get to the situation we find ourselves in because of a 'few' nut jobs.  It is a sad fact that Islam has vastly more 'nut job' (as we see it) adherents that are prepared to perpetrate heinous acts, they have (in some instances) huge financial backing and possibly the one thing that sets them apart from any other group/following is the fact that their activists deliberately invoke the name of Allah in the act of committing their atrocities.  Therefore the major difference your comment helps demonstrate relates to the white thug or any adherent of Christian faiths.  Those adherents who carry out criminal/violent acts do not invoke the name of Jesus or any other religious figure whilst carrying out their act of violence.  Despite there being some 'questionable' groups who openly oppose Muslims, because of the acts committed in the name of Allah, I have yet to see anyone from that non Muslim part of society carry out a beheading, bombing a public place killing and maiming women and children, bombing mosques because it is of a different 'branch' of Islam, attacking a newspaper because of a cartoon it didn't like,  going to war in the determination of forming a 100% controlled Christian state as ISIS is attempting to do etc etc.......

Back to the OP.  Yes Trump is a bit strange but he does stumble around issues that other 'inclusive' liberal leaders avoid which in turn does bring things some consider unpalatable to the fore.  What the answer is I don't know but it is possible that there would be no need for a 'far right' had there been a more open and robust dealing with the Islamist terrorist situation a long time ago.

A religious group, any group irrespective of beliefs, which delivers atrocities on an otherwise innocent public surely deserves a robust response not one where liberal minded individuals bleat on about human rights etc etc.  Just because this one has a religious base should not make the strength of the response any less rigorous.

People happily quote that there are over 2 billion Muslims in the world and a small percentage are 'nut jobs'.  I agree but have to ask what are the majority  of Muslims doing to protect themselves and the good name of those who peacefully follow Allah?  In my opinion clearly not enough.

I'd say Roger that you have failed to support your observation that the majority of Muslims are not doing enough to protect themselves and the good name of those who peacefully follow Allah with any evidence. Reminds me of this great piece from the Daily Mash. An oldie but still a goodie. http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/muslim-man-in-northampton-asked-what-hes-doing-about-isis-20151117103929

It is difficult to produce evidence of inactivity......except I suppose where differing factions Sunni, Wahabi etc etc are happily, madly disposing of one another in seemingly pointless acts of extermination.

However I admit my comment was somewhat 'broad brush' as there are clearly sections of that part of the planets population that does dearly want it all to stop.  However in retrospect maybe I should have said that there is a global failure to demonstrate the activities of those who are trying to put an end to this senseless slaughter.  So maybe if governments and the worlds press assisted those working towards peace the dividend would be quite significant.  Those who only get their 'opinions' from the press would be better informed, the picture would be painted rather differently and then maybe, just maybe those who would do us harm might be a degree more isolated and eventually be rounded up, eradicated, educated as to the real damage they do to their true religion or otherwise consigned to history.

Maybe all this comes under 'robust' dealings with the problem because as the years go by the only information coming from governments or the press appears one sided....that of the perpetrators and their despicable, sickening activities.

Another way of looking at it is there are approximately 2 billion Muslims on this planet and they appear to be rather quiet when their religion is being demonstrated to the world as one of violence and intolerance which I find is rather difficult to either understand or accept.

[colin]

RogerC - 2017-11-30 8:18 PM

 

Given the numbers involved and the fact that there likely hundreds of thousands of Muslims who believe the Koran tells them unbelievers must be converted or killed.  Most don't act on that calling but far too many do.  Therefore if the Jewish faith called for the annihilation of all followers of Islam, as certain elements of the Arab world do regarding Israel, then there would be a Jewish threat.  It is the context one sees these acts of evil in which helps determine the terminology one uses and in this instance I truly believe that 'the Muslim threat' is quite appropriate as is Islamist fanaticism and any other descriptive title one feels describes these animals.

 

I would point out that all branches of 'the middle eastern myth' have common beginnings, so if you where to read the bible you will find it tells followers to kill disbelievers.

 

 

 

[Bulletguy]

RogerC - 2017-11-30 8:38 PM

Violet1956 - 2017-11-30 5:09 PM

RogerC - 2017-11-30 4:32 PM

colin - 2017-11-30 10:17 AM

StuartO - 2017-11-30 9:06 AMOn Radio 4 this morning an American who thinks we should wake up to the need to deal with the muslim threat was being challenged about supporting the disemination of videos showing muslims doing threatening things and the interviewer kept on and on about the inaccuracy of a statement that one video about a Dutch muslim doing something horrid was hate-filled and inaccurate because the particular muslim was Dutch born and not a migrant.  There was no suggestion that the muslim's horrid actions were misrepresented yet the BBC Interviewer was trying to discredit the American and the act of diseminating the video purely because of the (somantic?) inaccuracy about his migrant status.  As the American said, does it matter whether he was a first, second or third generation immigrant, or is it his actions (and the fact that he is a muslin, as a factor in his motivation) we should be taking serious note of?

 

I don't understand why we are supposed to ignore threatenning behaviour by muslims, acting as muslims, even if some muslims or even most muslims aren't behaving badly.

Because a person is Muslin does not mean any particular act is done in the name of Islam.Would you say that a white thug who says he is CofE represents Christians?Yes there are problems in some areas, but so is there with Roman Catholics and Protestants.

Quite correct Colin...not all muslims are adherents to the fanatical sects or beliefs that cause so many to carry out acts so vile and unfathomable in any society.  However you don't get to the situation we find ourselves in because of a 'few' nut jobs.  It is a sad fact that Islam has vastly more 'nut job' (as we see it) adherents that are prepared to perpetrate heinous acts, they have (in some instances) huge financial backing and possibly the one thing that sets them apart from any other group/following is the fact that their activists deliberately invoke the name of Allah in the act of committing their atrocities.  Therefore the major difference your comment helps demonstrate relates to the white thug or any adherent of Christian faiths.  Those adherents who carry out criminal/violent acts do not invoke the name of Jesus or any other religious figure whilst carrying out their act of violence.  Despite there being some 'questionable' groups who openly oppose Muslims, because of the acts committed in the name of Allah, I have yet to see anyone from that non Muslim part of society carry out a beheading, bombing a public place killing and maiming women and children, bombing mosques because it is of a different 'branch' of Islam, attacking a newspaper because of a cartoon it didn't like,  going to war in the determination of forming a 100% controlled Christian state as ISIS is attempting to do etc etc.......

Back to the OP.  Yes Trump is a bit strange but he does stumble around issues that other 'inclusive' liberal leaders avoid which in turn does bring things some consider unpalatable to the fore.  What the answer is I don't know but it is possible that there would be no need for a 'far right' had there been a more open and robust dealing with the Islamist terrorist situation a long time ago.

A religious group, any group irrespective of beliefs, which delivers atrocities on an otherwise innocent public surely deserves a robust response not one where liberal minded individuals bleat on about human rights etc etc.  Just because this one has a religious base should not make the strength of the response any less rigorous.

People happily quote that there are over 2 billion Muslims in the world and a small percentage are 'nut jobs'.  I agree but have to ask what are the majority  of Muslims doing to protect themselves and the good name of those who peacefully follow Allah?  In my opinion clearly not enough.

I'd say Roger that you have failed to support your observation that the majority of Muslims are not doing enough to protect themselves and the good name of those who peacefully follow Allah with any evidence. Reminds me of this great piece from the Daily Mash. An oldie but still a goodie. http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/muslim-man-in-northampton-asked-what-hes-doing-about-isis-20151117103929

Another way of looking at it is there are approximately 2 billion Muslims on this planet and they appear to be rather quiet when their religion is being demonstrated to the world as one of violence and intolerance which I find is rather difficult to either understand or accept.

Seems rather a lot of evidence which refutes that Roger......and this is from just one page of Google. There are many many more if you want to look.https://www.huffingtonpost.com/kamran-pasha/the-big-lie-about-muslim_b_188991.htmlhttps://www.theguardian.com/world/shortcuts/2017/mar/26/muslims-condemn-terrorism-statshttp://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-09/muslims-speak-out-against-terrorism/8606296https://ing.org/global-condemnations-of-isis-isil/https://www.politico.eu/article/muslim-leaders-begin-european-bus-tour-against-terrorism-in-the-name-of-islam/https://www.islamicity.org/11717/why-dont-muslims-speak-out-against-terrorism/https://www.teenvogue.com/story/teen-makes-spreadsheet-muslim-groups-leaders-denouncing-terrorismhttps://muslimscondemn.com/

[Guest pelmetman]

colin - 2017-11-30 5:44 PM

 

pelmetman - 2017-11-30 12:55 PM

 

colin - 2017-11-30 11:58 AM

 

Violet1956 - 2017-11-30 11:32 AM

 

Worst still Trump is so intellectually challenged that he does not understand even the basics of cause and effect.

 

Veronica

 

Trump is playing to his fan base.

 

So the behaviour of some Muslims shouldn't be challenged for fear of upsetting the majority? :-| .......

 

We tried that...... and we now have 1000's of victims of child rape in this country *-) .......

 

Yep...... some folk really don't understand cause and effect :-S .........

 

 

Where have I posted that? I'll answer for you, nowhere, it is something you have made up in your own mind.

I have no problem with anyone being prosecuted for crimes they have committed, I have no problems with the finger being pointed if there is shown to be a problem within a segment of society.

The Asian grooming gangs should not have been allowed to get away with what they did(and are still doing) just because it might upset a certain segment.

 

 

My mistake Colin......sloppy assumptions ;-) .......

 

 

[Guest pelmetman]

colin - 2017-11-30 8:48 PM

 

RogerC - 2017-11-30 8:18 PM

 

Given the numbers involved and the fact that there likely hundreds of thousands of Muslims who believe the Koran tells them unbelievers must be converted or killed.  Most don't act on that calling but far too many do.  Therefore if the Jewish faith called for the annihilation of all followers of Islam, as certain elements of the Arab world do regarding Israel, then there would be a Jewish threat.  It is the context one sees these acts of evil in which helps determine the terminology one uses and in this instance I truly believe that 'the Muslim threat' is quite appropriate as is Islamist fanaticism and any other descriptive title one feels describes these animals.

 

I would point out that all branches of 'the middle eastern myth' have common beginnings, so if you where to read the bible you will find it tells followers to kill disbelievers.

 

 

 

The difference is Christians rarely do now days ;-) .........

 

Where as Muslims are *-) ........

 

 

 

 

[Guest pelmetman]

antony1969 - 2017-11-30 7:48 PM

 

 

Muslim - Beers - Contradiction somewhere

 

Nothing better when served with Halal Bacon Butty >:-) .........

 

 

[Guest pelmetman]

Bulletguy - 2017-11-30 5:57 PM

 

colin - 2017-11-30 5:44 PM

 

pelmetman - 2017-11-30 12:55 PM

 

colin - 2017-11-30 11:58 AM

 

Violet1956 - 2017-11-30 11:32 AM

 

Worst still Trump is so intellectually challenged that he does not understand even the basics of cause and effect.

 

Veronica

 

Trump is playing to his fan base.

 

So the behaviour of some Muslims shouldn't be challenged for fear of upsetting the majority? :-| .......

 

We tried that...... and we now have 1000's of victims of child rape in this country *-) .......

 

Yep...... some folk really don't understand cause and effect :-S .........

 

 

Where have I posted that? I'll answer for you, nowhere, it is something you have made up in your own mind.

I have no problem with anyone being prosecuted for crimes they have committed, I have no problems with the finger being pointed if there is shown to be a problem within a segment of society.

The Asian grooming gangs should not have been allowed to get away with what they did(and are still doing) just because it might upset a certain segment.

Exactly.....and everyone else could see that. It's just more of the usual deflectionary nonsense the same culprits default to.

 

Yeah all those 1000's of raped children are just a deflection aren't they BULLET???? >:-( ........

 

 

[Violet1956]

antony1969 - 2017-11-30 8:01 PM

Violet1956 - 2017-11-30 7:47 PM

antony1969 - 2017-11-30 7:36 PM

Violet1956 - 2017-11-30 4:56 PM

antony1969 - 2017-11-30 3:58 PM

Violet1956 - 2017-11-30 3:14 PM

antony1969 - 2017-11-30 2:51 PM

Violet1956 - 2017-11-30 2:19 PM

antony1969 - 2017-11-30 1:24 PM

Violet1956 - 2017-11-30 12:28 PM

StuartO - 2017-11-30 11:59 AM

Violet1956 - 2017-12-01 2:32 AM

StuartO - 2017-11-30 9:06 AMOn Radio 4 this morning an American who thinks we should wake up to the need to deal with the muslim threat was being challenged about supporting the disemination of videos showing muslims doing threatening things and the interviewer kept on and on about the inaccuracy of a statement that one video about a Dutch muslim doing something horrid was hate-filled and inaccurate because the particular muslim was Dutch born and not a migrant.  There was no suggestion that the muslim's horrid actions were misrepresented yet the BBC Interviewer was trying to discredit the American and the act of diseminating the video purely because of the (somantic?) inaccuracy about his migrant status.  As the American said, does it matter whether he was a first, second or third generation immigrant, or is it his actions (and the fact that he is a muslin, as a factor in his motivation) we should be taking serious note of?

 

I don't understand why we are supposed to ignore threatenning behaviour by muslims, acting as muslims, even if some muslims or even most muslims aren't behaving badly.

These re-tweets are to be condemned for the reasons given by our Prime Minister. Well done Mrs. M. As for the term “the Muslim threat”, in you first sentence Stuart just think about how acceptable that would be if applied to other religious groups e.g. “the Jewish threat”. I know it is most unlikely that you intended any sleight on all followers of Islam as the rest of your observations indicate you do not. Nevertheless, terminology matters a great deal when conveying who exactly is posing any threat when we are facing threats from Islamist fundamentalists not Muslims in general. I don’t see anything in the condemnation of these re-tweets from all quarters of the political spectrum in the UK or in the semantic argument put forward by the interviewer amounts to ignoring or not taking serious note of violence based on religious hatred. To the contrary the aim is to reduce any threat of violence based on religious hatred. Britain First, and Ms Fransen in particular, continue to stir up religious and racial hatred. She and her cohort are no better than the purveyors of Islamic fundamentalist garbage. Worst still Trump is so intellectually challenged that he does not understand even the basics of cause and effect. Veronica

I don't believe I am anti-Muslim or ant-migrant (in the global, hate-mongering sense, simply because I see an increasing threat from terrorist who are Muslims, acting (in their way of thinking) to serve Allah and Islam. Nor do I want to be told I must not express such concern lest someone else starts to feel hatred when I have encouraged no such thing. 

It seems silly to me for a BBC interview to resort to what seems to me to be a trivial side argument about migrant status in order to shout someone down on the issue of increasing terrorist threat from people who do it for religious reasons. It's their motivation which brings religion into it, not me wanting to have a go at muslims or Islam in general. 

I believe I acknowledged that you were not having a go at Muslims or Islam Stuart. I maintain the term "Muslim threat" is an abhorrent one although there was nothing abhorrent about your intention when you used it.

What does "having a go at Muslims or Islam" mean ??? ... Since when was questioning or criticizing anything or anyone not allowed ... The wets question and criticise POTUS Trump without any fear of comeback but questioning Muslims or Islam means your a racist/Islamaphobe/or any other name from Bullets collection

If you look back Antony the term "having a go at Muslims or Islam" was a term Stuart used. He wasn't having a go at Muslims or Islam as far as I can see from the comments he made nor did I accuse him of that. There is a distinction to be drawn been criticising people for what they do and implying whether intentionally or not that such egregious behaviour is endemic within their religious group. It is essential that the President of the USA refrains from using the same kind of inflammatory tactics used by Islamic fundamentalists because such tactics have a tendency to foment religious hatred. We know to our cost from our home grown terrorists who watched ISIS videos that were drawn into believing that it was legitimate to attack innocent people for the acts of a few they believed were depicted in those videos. Trump is not beyond criticism just because he is the President or a Christian just as Islamic fundamentalists are not beyond criticism because they are Muslim. I am happy to be called a pedant because in this instance the devil really is in the detail. Veronica

So your suggesting his retweets of those videos makes him the same as Islamic Fundementalists ??? ... I support him , millions do and everyone I've talked to today believes he's bang on with it so because we support what he does and support his tweets I can only presume the rest of us are no better than Islamic Fundamentalists too ???

No Antony you misunderstand me. Trump is not the same as Islamic Fundamentalists. I don't believe that he realises the potential consequences of his actions or if he does he doesn't care so long as he remains popular with his supporters. Groups like ISIS and other fundamentalists certainly do understand the consequences of their propaganda and intend them. I doubt that you or anyone else you have spoken to today believes that it is a good thing to foment religious hatred intentionally so you are indeed most likely to be much better than Islamic Fundamentalists. Veronica

You believe that POTUS Trump retweeting something it's going to have consequences with ISIS ??? ... How is what anybody does or says going to make things worse with those that want to wipe us non believers out ... If you ain't Muslim then your dead to them already a tweet isn't going to make a God damn bit of difference

The more Donald Trump and his ilk besmirch all Muslims as opposed to Islamic extremists the more likely some of them will become susceptible to extremist beliefs and to recruitment by groups like ISIS or even "lone wolf" type operations. Let's not forget there are nutjobs in the US who have unfettered access to lethal weapons enabling 100s to be killed in minutes. We don't want anymore innocent people to die at the hands of extremists whatever religion they claim to follow. Donald doesn't care because he goes around with a security detail and in a bullet proof limo. Ordinary Americans remain at risk from extremists from both sides of an ever increasing divide that he appears prepared to make even bigger. We Brits, as perceived allies of the US, are also likely to be adversely affected if we don't show how much we condemn his use of material emanating from extremists within the UK.

Thats right Veronica you finally got there ... "his ilk" ... You finally said what you truly think ... When did he besmirch all Muslims by the way ???

I can't research all of his tweets as the dinner is on. But just one recent example - in one of his tweets he said that the United Kingdom is trying hard to disguise their "massive Muslim" problem.

So we dont have a massive Muslim problem ??? ... Because our prisons and rape gangs and Islamic terrorism would tell us otherwise ... But I suppose they are just side issues ... What is "his ilk" ???

The kind of people that say we have a massive Muslim problem Antony.

[Guest pelmetman]

Violet1956 - 2017-11-30 9:19 PM

 

The kind of people that say we have a massive Muslim problem Antony.

 

So 1000's of raped children are NOT indicative of a massive problem??? *-) .......

 

 

[Bulletguy]

pelmetman - 2017-11-30 9:11 PM

 

colin - 2017-11-30 8:48 PM

 

RogerC - 2017-11-30 8:18 PM

 

Given the numbers involved and the fact that there likely hundreds of thousands of Muslims who believe the Koran tells them unbelievers must be converted or killed.  Most don't act on that calling but far too many do.  Therefore if the Jewish faith called for the annihilation of all followers of Islam, as certain elements of the Arab world do regarding Israel, then there would be a Jewish threat.  It is the context one sees these acts of evil in which helps determine the terminology one uses and in this instance I truly believe that 'the Muslim threat' is quite appropriate as is Islamist fanaticism and any other descriptive title one feels describes these animals.

 

I would point out that all branches of 'the middle eastern myth' have common beginnings, so if you where to read the bible you will find it tells followers to kill disbelievers.

 

 

 

The difference is Christians rarely do now days ;-) .........

 

Where as Muslims are *-) ........

Back to wild sweeping generalisations once again...... *-)

 

 

pelmetman - 2017-11-30 9:19 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2017-11-30 5:57 PM

 

colin - 2017-11-30 5:44 PM

 

pelmetman - 2017-11-30 12:55 PM

 

colin - 2017-11-30 11:58 AM

 

Violet1956 - 2017-11-30 11:32 AM

 

Worst still Trump is so intellectually challenged that he does not understand even the basics of cause and effect.

 

Veronica

 

Trump is playing to his fan base.

 

So the behaviour of some Muslims shouldn't be challenged for fear of upsetting the majority? :-| .......

 

We tried that...... and we now have 1000's of victims of child rape in this country *-) .......

 

Yep...... some folk really don't understand cause and effect :-S .........

 

 

Where have I posted that? I'll answer for you, nowhere, it is something you have made up in your own mind.

I have no problem with anyone being prosecuted for crimes they have committed, I have no problems with the finger being pointed if there is shown to be a problem within a segment of society.

The Asian grooming gangs should not have been allowed to get away with what they did(and are still doing) just because it might upset a certain segment.

Exactly.....and everyone else could see that. It's just more of the usual deflectionary nonsense the same culprits default to.

 

Yeah all those 1000's of raped children are just a deflection aren't they BULLET???? >:-( ........

Did Trump tweet that last night?

 

Why don't you go and start a thread on that instead of hijacking this thread?

[colin]

pelmetman - 2017-11-30 9:11 PM

 

colin - 2017-11-30 8:48 PM

 

RogerC - 2017-11-30 8:18 PM

 

Given the numbers involved and the fact that there likely hundreds of thousands of Muslims who believe the Koran tells them unbelievers must be converted or killed.  Most don't act on that calling but far too many do.  Therefore if the Jewish faith called for the annihilation of all followers of Islam, as certain elements of the Arab world do regarding Israel, then there would be a Jewish threat.  It is the context one sees these acts of evil in which helps determine the terminology one uses and in this instance I truly believe that 'the Muslim threat' is quite appropriate as is Islamist fanaticism and any other descriptive title one feels describes these animals.

 

I would point out that all branches of 'the middle eastern myth' have common beginnings, so if you where to read the bible you will find it tells followers to kill disbelievers.

 

 

 

The difference is Christians rarely do now days ;-) .........

 

Where as Muslims are *-) ........

 

 

 

 

Maybe maybe not, from the history books we are told of some of the atrocities committed in the name of Christianity, and we like to think that it no longer happens.

Lets consider the Christian fundamentalist George W Bush and his cohort the devout Christian Tony Blair. It has been reported (although denied) that George W was 'told by god' to start the Iraq war, what has never been denied is that he told Chirac that 'Gog and Magog' where at work in the middle east and that france should join the war, also he refered to it as a Crusade. Tony meanwhile deliberately lied to parliament to ensure that the UK backed George W and the war could go ahead. Estimates of the deaths from the war vary greatly, I think the max is around 500,000.

[Bulletguy]

Excellent news.

 

US diplomats have dropped plans for Trumps 'working visit' to UK amid a "war of words" between him and TM.

 

Finally gettin' the message Trumpy boy? :D

 

YOU ARE NOT WELCOME HERE IN UK........KEEP OUT AND STAY OUT

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/30/donald-trumps-working-visit-uk-dropped-tensions-theresa-may/

[Violet1956]

pelmetman - 2017-11-30 9:23 PM

 

Violet1956 - 2017-11-30 9:19 PM

 

The kind of people that say we have a massive Muslim problem Antony.

 

So 1000's of raped children are NOT indicative of a massive problem??? *-) .......

 

I didn't say that 1000's of raped children was not indicative of a massive problem did I Dave?

 

I know you don't agree with me as to whether it is right to characterise the child grooming scandals in Rotherham and elsewhere as a "massive Muslim problem" if that's what you mean. We've discussed that ad nauseam.

 

Veronica

[Barryd999]

Bulletguy - 2017-11-30 10:40 PM

 

Excellent news.

 

US diplomats have dropped plans for Trumps 'working visit' to UK amid a "war of words" between him and TM.

 

Finally gettin' the message Trumpy boy? :D

 

YOU ARE NOT WELCOME HERE IN UK........KEEP OUT AND STAY OUT

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/30/donald-trumps-working-visit-uk-dropped-tensions-theresa-may/

 

Actually I am a bit dissapointed. (lol) Lets face it, it would have been a laugh. I did hear that he had decided though that he refused to go anywhere if people were going to boo him. Maybe it was his last visit to Scotland that put him off.

 

Those Scots just tell it how it is. (lol)

 

DO NOT OPEN IF YOU ARE OFFENDED BY BAD LANGUAGE (really)

 

https://tinyurl.com/yaxh3vax

[Barryd999]

antony1969 - 2017-11-30 7:48 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-11-30 6:43 PM

 

Brian Kirby - 2017-11-30 6:14 PM

 

It's water under the bridge now but, FWIW, I think it would have been far better for our PM to have maintained silence in public, but to have responded through the British Ambassador directly to the White House. Diplomacy by Twitter is not going to work. Posts on Twitter are Tweets, and most Tweets are made by Twits! :-)

 

But, we have to remember that Trump is the President of the US, and that the post should be respected even if respect for the post-holder is difficult. We should also remember that he was elected by a majority of Americans, so publicly disrespecting the post-holder is liable to appear to his electorate as indirect disrespect of them. Not very clever!

 

Since we are intent on leaving the EC, it seems an undesirable gaff to open an avoidable rift with America - unless it is intended to so worry Brexiters that they begin to clamour for an exit from Brexit, in which case it is a brilliant move! :-D

 

For once I am going to disagree Brian. Of course it should have been publicly condemned. Its not even accurate. Even the Fail has reported the so called Migrant beating up the guy on crutches was a Dutch national and the Police said he isnt even a Muslim. Of course like the other fake reports like the so called migrants kicking a woman down the stairs in Germany who also turned out not to be migrants the damage is done. Those that support this kind of racism will he whooping with joy and retweeting regardless of if any of it is true or not. We must be shown to condemn this kind of very un-presidential behaviour.

 

As for you last paragraph I Think its inevitable that the whole world will fall out with Trump so maybe it will turn out to be a good move. It seems like he has been in power for ever but he has at least three years to go unless they get shot of him early. Do we really want to be beholden to him? Good God I hope not.

 

Roger. I will be meeting my good life long friend Akram tomorrow. He is a Muslim, we will probably do some work then go for a few beers. Ill try and remember to ask him what he is going to to about ISIS shall I? (lol)

 

Muslim - Beers - Contradiction somewhere

 

Ah but says who? The Koran? How many Christians have not broken any of the Ten Commandments? I might be a Christian but Im a pretty rubbish one, I Cant remember them all but Im pretty sure ive broken most of them. I dont even know if Ak believes in God / Allah to be honest. In fact I dont think he is religious whatsoever. His dad (the nicest man I have ever met) is a bit but I know he has the odd glass of wine. My (ex) Brother in Law is a Muslim (Jordanian), he drinks but he reckons he believes in God. My two nieces are not remotely religious but are mixed race with a Muslim father and thats what upsets me. You will say they are not Muslims but maybe they are maybe they are not but the point is those people at Britain First and to be fair some of the comments on here would have my friends and family lumped in with terrorists, extremists or ISIS supporters. Thats not right surely. Trump if he had his way would not allow my nieces father into his country. WTF is that all about?

 

 

[Bulletguy]

Barryd999 - 2017-11-30 11:38 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2017-11-30 10:40 PM

 

Excellent news.

 

US diplomats have dropped plans for Trumps 'working visit' to UK amid a "war of words" between him and TM.

 

Finally gettin' the message Trumpy boy? :D

 

YOU ARE NOT WELCOME HERE IN UK........KEEP OUT AND STAY OUT

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/30/donald-trumps-working-visit-uk-dropped-tensions-theresa-may/

 

Actually I am a bit dissapointed. (lol) Lets face it, it would have been a laugh. I did hear that he had decided though that he refused to go anywhere if people were going to boo him. Maybe it was his last visit to Scotland that put him off.

 

Those Scots just tell it how it is. (lol)

 

DO NOT OPEN IF YOU ARE OFFENDED BY BAD LANGUAGE (really)

 

https://tinyurl.com/yaxh3vax

They certainly do and he's angered Scots no end by his bully boy tactics. A very nasty individual who thinks he can ride rough shod over anyone to get his own way......the hallmark of every playground bully boy as David and Moira Milne can testify. Trump is their Nightmare Neighbour from Hell.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/25/world/europe/donald-trump-scotland-wall.html

 

Others here also; https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/23/donald-trump-faces-wall-of-opposition-as-he-returns-to-scotland

 

and more trouble; https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/09/trumps-scottish-golf-resort-fails-to-block-evidence-in-privacy-damages-case

 

Everywhere he goes he wreaks havoc and chaos. Nothing new there then.

[antony1969]

Violet1956 - 2017-11-30 9:19 PM

antony1969 - 2017-11-30 8:01 PM

Violet1956 - 2017-11-30 7:47 PM

antony1969 - 2017-11-30 7:36 PM

Violet1956 - 2017-11-30 4:56 PM

antony1969 - 2017-11-30 3:58 PM

Violet1956 - 2017-11-30 3:14 PM

antony1969 - 2017-11-30 2:51 PM

Violet1956 - 2017-11-30 2:19 PM

antony1969 - 2017-11-30 1:24 PM

Violet1956 - 2017-11-30 12:28 PM

StuartO - 2017-11-30 11:59 AM

Violet1956 - 2017-12-01 2:32 AM

StuartO - 2017-11-30 9:06 AMOn Radio 4 this morning an American who thinks we should wake up to the need to deal with the muslim threat was being challenged about supporting the disemination of videos showing muslims doing threatening things and the interviewer kept on and on about the inaccuracy of a statement that one video about a Dutch muslim doing something horrid was hate-filled and inaccurate because the particular muslim was Dutch born and not a migrant.  There was no suggestion that the muslim's horrid actions were misrepresented yet the BBC Interviewer was trying to discredit the American and the act of diseminating the video purely because of the (somantic?) inaccuracy about his migrant status.  As the American said, does it matter whether he was a first, second or third generation immigrant, or is it his actions (and the fact that he is a muslin, as a factor in his motivation) we should be taking serious note of?

 

I don't understand why we are supposed to ignore threatenning behaviour by muslims, acting as muslims, even if some muslims or even most muslims aren't behaving badly.

These re-tweets are to be condemned for the reasons given by our Prime Minister. Well done Mrs. M. As for the term “the Muslim threat”, in you first sentence Stuart just think about how acceptable that would be if applied to other religious groups e.g. “the Jewish threat”. I know it is most unlikely that you intended any sleight on all followers of Islam as the rest of your observations indicate you do not. Nevertheless, terminology matters a great deal when conveying who exactly is posing any threat when we are facing threats from Islamist fundamentalists not Muslims in general. I don’t see anything in the condemnation of these re-tweets from all quarters of the political spectrum in the UK or in the semantic argument put forward by the interviewer amounts to ignoring or not taking serious note of violence based on religious hatred. To the contrary the aim is to reduce any threat of violence based on religious hatred. Britain First, and Ms Fransen in particular, continue to stir up religious and racial hatred. She and her cohort are no better than the purveyors of Islamic fundamentalist garbage. Worst still Trump is so intellectually challenged that he does not understand even the basics of cause and effect. Veronica

I don't believe I am anti-Muslim or ant-migrant (in the global, hate-mongering sense, simply because I see an increasing threat from terrorist who are Muslims, acting (in their way of thinking) to serve Allah and Islam. Nor do I want to be told I must not express such concern lest someone else starts to feel hatred when I have encouraged no such thing. 

It seems silly to me for a BBC interview to resort to what seems to me to be a trivial side argument about migrant status in order to shout someone down on the issue of increasing terrorist threat from people who do it for religious reasons. It's their motivation which brings religion into it, not me wanting to have a go at muslims or Islam in general. 

I believe I acknowledged that you were not having a go at Muslims or Islam Stuart. I maintain the term "Muslim threat" is an abhorrent one although there was nothing abhorrent about your intention when you used it.

What does "having a go at Muslims or Islam" mean ??? ... Since when was questioning or criticizing anything or anyone not allowed ... The wets question and criticise POTUS Trump without any fear of comeback but questioning Muslims or Islam means your a racist/Islamaphobe/or any other name from Bullets collection

If you look back Antony the term "having a go at Muslims or Islam" was a term Stuart used. He wasn't having a go at Muslims or Islam as far as I can see from the comments he made nor did I accuse him of that. There is a distinction to be drawn been criticising people for what they do and implying whether intentionally or not that such egregious behaviour is endemic within their religious group. It is essential that the President of the USA refrains from using the same kind of inflammatory tactics used by Islamic fundamentalists because such tactics have a tendency to foment religious hatred. We know to our cost from our home grown terrorists who watched ISIS videos that were drawn into believing that it was legitimate to attack innocent people for the acts of a few they believed were depicted in those videos. Trump is not beyond criticism just because he is the President or a Christian just as Islamic fundamentalists are not beyond criticism because they are Muslim. I am happy to be called a pedant because in this instance the devil really is in the detail. Veronica

So your suggesting his retweets of those videos makes him the same as Islamic Fundementalists ??? ... I support him , millions do and everyone I've talked to today believes he's bang on with it so because we support what he does and support his tweets I can only presume the rest of us are no better than Islamic Fundamentalists too ???

No Antony you misunderstand me. Trump is not the same as Islamic Fundamentalists. I don't believe that he realises the potential consequences of his actions or if he does he doesn't care so long as he remains popular with his supporters. Groups like ISIS and other fundamentalists certainly do understand the consequences of their propaganda and intend them. I doubt that you or anyone else you have spoken to today believes that it is a good thing to foment religious hatred intentionally so you are indeed most likely to be much better than Islamic Fundamentalists. Veronica

You believe that POTUS Trump retweeting something it's going to have consequences with ISIS ??? ... How is what anybody does or says going to make things worse with those that want to wipe us non believers out ... If you ain't Muslim then your dead to them already a tweet isn't going to make a God damn bit of difference

The more Donald Trump and his ilk besmirch all Muslims as opposed to Islamic extremists the more likely some of them will become susceptible to extremist beliefs and to recruitment by groups like ISIS or even "lone wolf" type operations. Let's not forget there are nutjobs in the US who have unfettered access to lethal weapons enabling 100s to be killed in minutes. We don't want anymore innocent people to die at the hands of extremists whatever religion they claim to follow. Donald doesn't care because he goes around with a security detail and in a bullet proof limo. Ordinary Americans remain at risk from extremists from both sides of an ever increasing divide that he appears prepared to make even bigger. We Brits, as perceived allies of the US, are also likely to be adversely affected if we don't show how much we condemn his use of material emanating from extremists within the UK.

Thats right Veronica you finally got there ... "his ilk" ... You finally said what you truly think ... When did he besmirch all Muslims by the way ???

I can't research all of his tweets as the dinner is on. But just one recent example - in one of his tweets he said that the United Kingdom is trying hard to disguise their "massive Muslim" problem.

So we dont have a massive Muslim problem ??? ... Because our prisons and rape gangs and Islamic terrorism would tell us otherwise ... But I suppose they are just side issues ... What is "his ilk" ???

The kind of people that say we have a massive Muslim problem Antony.

Glad to be an ilk ... If massive over representation in prison , child rape gangs picking almost exclusively on white girls , terrorism , non-integration and a book that teachers hate to nonbelievers is not a massive problem then I dont know what is ... If it wasn't Muslims and say white right wing types that were doing what I list then I suppose then it would be a massive problem ... You sure that cooker alarm wasn't an alarm in your head saying Wake up Veronica

[antony1969]

It gets funnier ... The site of our cocaine buying , anti-Semitic , terrorist supporting , expense fiddling , sexual predators , racist and white underpants wearing gay sex site trawling MPs getting all hysterical over our POTUS Trumps tweet is the laugh of the year ... They certainly have the high moral ground ... Keep tweeting Mr President your loved by many xxx My alarm on the house went off last night for no reason and this morning faint footsteps were set in the light snowfall ... Seriously does anyone know the law over cctv and if the camera points out slightly on to a public highway is that allowed ? ... Going to work this morning with a very scared missus was no fun

[Guest pelmetman]

The more Trumps tweets the more I like him :D .......

 

He's a Twitterati legend in my book just for being able to annoy so many of the T*w*atterati B-) ......

 

 

[antony1969]

I think Veronica is right we don't have a Muslim problem ... We don't have a problem that much that my young grandchild had a 'what to do in a school terrorist incident' lesson yesterday ... Instead of doing what 5 year olds should innocently be doing the children were shown what to do in case of an attack ... No problem

[Violet1956]

antony1969 - 2017-12-01 7:46 AM

 

It gets funnier ... The site of our cocaine buying , anti-Semitic , terrorist supporting , expense fiddling , sexual predators , racist and white underpants wearing gay sex site trawling MPs getting all hysterical over our POTUS Trumps tweet is the laugh of the year ... They certainly have the high moral ground ... Keep tweeting Mr President your loved by many xxx My alarm on the house went off last night for no reason and this morning faint footsteps were set in the light snowfall ... Seriously does anyone know the law over cctv and if the camera points out slightly on to a public highway is that allowed ? ... Going to work this morning with a very scared missus was no fun

 

There's a mass of information about lawful use of private cctv on the internet. Glad you mention it because the people across the road have installed it and the sensors they have cause it to operate when people walk across our upstairs landing. When prompted by your post to look up what the law was (you know how much the law is an obsession of mine) I think they might be breaking it. Anyway as I said there's loads of stuff on the internet and it seems that so long as the privacy of neighbours and general passers-by is respected it's fine to install it.

 

This website gives the low down

 

https://www.cctv.co.uk/legal-requirements-for-cctv-at-home/

 

Can understand why your wife was spooked.

 

Veronica

[antony1969]

Violet1956 - 2017-12-01 9:49 AM

 

antony1969 - 2017-12-01 7:46 AM

 

It gets funnier ... The site of our cocaine buying , anti-Semitic , terrorist supporting , expense fiddling , sexual predators , racist and white underpants wearing gay sex site trawling MPs getting all hysterical over our POTUS Trumps tweet is the laugh of the year ... They certainly have the high moral ground ... Keep tweeting Mr President your loved by many xxx My alarm on the house went off last night for no reason and this morning faint footsteps were set in the light snowfall ... Seriously does anyone know the law over cctv and if the camera points out slightly on to a public highway is that allowed ? ... Going to work this morning with a very scared missus was no fun

 

There's a mass of information about lawful use of private cctv on the internet. Glad you mention it because the people across the road have installed it and the sensors they have cause it to operate when people walk across our upstairs landing. When prompted by your post to look up what the law was (you know how much the law is an obsession of mine) I think they might be breaking it. Anyway as I said there's loads of stuff on the internet and it seems that so long as the privacy of neighbours and general passers-by is respected it's fine to install it.

 

This website gives the low down

 

https://www.cctv.co.uk/legal-requirements-for-cctv-at-home/

 

Can understand why your wife was spooked.

 

Veronica

 

Thanks Veronica ... A lot of weird stuff happening lately ... funny emails and post too ... I've had a word with my son in law Policeman just to log something down kind of officially as you never know with these situations ... Think the missus is going to the doctors later to get something to help.her sleep ... Thanks again

[Violet1956]

antony1969 - 2017-12-01 11:01 AM

 

Violet1956 - 2017-12-01 9:49 AM

 

antony1969 - 2017-12-01 7:46 AM

 

It gets funnier ... The site of our cocaine buying , anti-Semitic , terrorist supporting , expense fiddling , sexual predators , racist and white underpants wearing gay sex site trawling MPs getting all hysterical over our POTUS Trumps tweet is the laugh of the year ... They certainly have the high moral ground ... Keep tweeting Mr President your loved by many xxx My alarm on the house went off last night for no reason and this morning faint footsteps were set in the light snowfall ... Seriously does anyone know the law over cctv and if the camera points out slightly on to a public highway is that allowed ? ... Going to work this morning with a very scared missus was no fun

 

There's a mass of information about lawful use of private cctv on the internet. Glad you mention it because the people across the road have installed it and the sensors they have cause it to operate when people walk across our upstairs landing. When prompted by your post to look up what the law was (you know how much the law is an obsession of mine) I think they might be breaking it. Anyway as I said there's loads of stuff on the internet and it seems that so long as the privacy of neighbours and general passers-by is respected it's fine to install it.

 

This website gives the low down

 

https://www.cctv.co.uk/legal-requirements-for-cctv-at-home/

 

Can understand why your wife was spooked.

 

Veronica

 

Thanks Veronica ... A lot of weird stuff happening lately ... funny emails and post too ... I've had a word with my son in law Policeman just to log something down kind of officially as you never know with these situations ... Think the missus is going to the doctors later to get something to help.her sleep ... Thanks again

 

Sounds to me as if there's enough to send some officers round to your gaff to investigate whether an offence of attempt Burglary has been committed. Wouldn't be surprised if burglaries are on the up as it is the Christmas season and they are looking for easy stuff to lift. Season to be jolly eh? If I were your local copper I would be taking this incident seriously.

[antony1969]

Violet1956 - 2017-12-01 11:30 AM

 

antony1969 - 2017-12-01 11:01 AM

 

Violet1956 - 2017-12-01 9:49 AM

 

antony1969 - 2017-12-01 7:46 AM

 

It gets funnier ... The site of our cocaine buying , anti-Semitic , terrorist supporting , expense fiddling , sexual predators , racist and white underpants wearing gay sex site trawling MPs getting all hysterical over our POTUS Trumps tweet is the laugh of the year ... They certainly have the high moral ground ... Keep tweeting Mr President your loved by many xxx My alarm on the house went off last night for no reason and this morning faint footsteps were set in the light snowfall ... Seriously does anyone know the law over cctv and if the camera points out slightly on to a public highway is that allowed ? ... Going to work this morning with a very scared missus was no fun

 

There's a mass of information about lawful use of private cctv on the internet. Glad you mention it because the people across the road have installed it and the sensors they have cause it to operate when people walk across our upstairs landing. When prompted by your post to look up what the law was (you know how much the law is an obsession of mine) I think they might be breaking it. Anyway as I said there's loads of stuff on the internet and it seems that so long as the privacy of neighbours and general passers-by is respected it's fine to install it.

 

This website gives the low down

 

https://www.cctv.co.uk/legal-requirements-for-cctv-at-home/

 

Can understand why your wife was spooked.

 

Veronica

 

Thanks Veronica ... A lot of weird stuff happening lately ... funny emails and post too ... I've had a word with my son in law Policeman just to log something down kind of officially as you never know with these situations ... Think the missus is going to the doctors later to get something to help.her sleep ... Thanks again

 

Sounds to me as if there's enough to send some officers round to your gaff to investigate whether an offence of attempt Burglary has been committed. Wouldn't be surprised if burglaries are on the up as it is the Christmas season and they are looking for easy stuff to lift. Season to be jolly eh? If I were your local copper I would be taking this incident seriously.

 

Possibly but I think it's something other than that ... Didn't help last night watching Fatal Attraction with Glenn Close obsessed character stalking poor Micheal Douglas ... I have contacted a friend who owns a security firm to see if he might do us a deal on providing security on a night just till maybe after Christmas and just hope this whole truly frightening experience might have gone away by then ... Regards

[StuartO]

Violet1956 - 2017-12-02 12:49 AM .... Glad you mention it because the people across the road have installed it and the sensors they have cause it to operate when people walk across our upstairs landing. When prompted by your post to look up what the law was (you know how much the law is an obsession of mine) I think they might be breaking it. ...

This has triggered me into looking at a CCTV system for home; these days you can check your recorder via your phone from anywhere if you want to - and a five camera system costs under £2,000 installed, so it's not really expensive.

 

I've been reading about whatere you can put camera and if there is a sensible crime-prevention or safety reason for a camera position and angle of view, there's no automatic overriding requirement to prevent you from using it just because it will pick up innocent people passing by.  I haven't seen anything to prevent you recording what's going on on the adjacent highway or footpath if it makes security sense but I suppose recording your neighbours walking across their upstairs landing might be a bit intrusive!