Bulletguy Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-12-16 4:44 PM Bulletguy - 2018-12-16 4:00 PM pelmetman - 2018-12-16 3:20 PM I'm planning on following the rules in Spain........if they enforce them :D ............ As a resident i'd expect you to. But you are not resident and neither is Spain your 'habitual residency'. UK is....allegedly. But it wont be "Habitual" ;-) ........It'll be temporary :D ........ "This temporary residence permit allows you to stay in Spain for between 90 days and five years, and can be renewed." https://www.expatica.com/new/es/moving/visas/visas-and-immigration-102354/ Perhaps you Remoaners ought to know what you're yabbering about before you start threads >:-) ........ Then you'd better start praying Brexit doesn't happen and UK remains in the EU because that won't 'work' once out of the EU. You're trying to circumvent a 'rule' you voted to end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 Bulletguy - 2018-12-16 4:54 PM pelmetman - 2018-12-16 4:44 PM Bulletguy - 2018-12-16 4:00 PM pelmetman - 2018-12-16 3:20 PM I'm planning on following the rules in Spain........if they enforce them :D ............ As a resident i'd expect you to. But you are not resident and neither is Spain your 'habitual residency'. UK is....allegedly. But it wont be "Habitual" ;-) ........It'll be temporary :D ........ "This temporary residence permit allows you to stay in Spain for between 90 days and five years, and can be renewed." https://www.expatica.com/new/es/moving/visas/visas-and-immigration-102354/ Perhaps you Remoaners ought to know what you're yabbering about before you start threads >:-) ........ Then you'd better start praying Brexit doesn't happen and UK remains in the EU because that won't 'work' once out of the EU. You're trying to circumvent a 'rule' you voted to end. I don't pray......So I ain't changing my Atheism or plans Bullet :D ............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirou Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-12-16 4:03 PM You mean these rules? ;-) ........ After arriving in Spain Within 30 days of arriving in Spain, all non-EU/EEA and Swiss citizens who want to stay for longer than three months must apply for a residence card/permit (Tarjeta de Residencia or TIE). You have to apply at the Foreigner’s Office (Oficina de Extranjeros) or police station in the province where you’re living. What you seem to be forgetting is that nobody checks their passport when leaving Switzerland/Norway so nobody has any solid proof they've been your neighbours for longer than 90 days, unless they've been under some sort of constant surveillance. They could also claim they left the country (not even Schengen) for at least one day within that period and therefore not in violation. Whereas they will easily confirm your overstay as I somehow doubt anyone will be entering or exiting UK without some sort of check. They're doing it already now and you're still in Schengen, something tells me the control won't ease once you're out. Even if you bypass UK/Schengen border by going into a third country (lets say Maroc) and entering UK from there, you will still register on the Schengen border. And so far I've always had to produce my passport on outer Schengen borders for a scan/verification. Whether they have some automatic red flag warning on overstaying I don't know, but seems easy enough not to. Whether they enforce the rule I don't know either. But you can let us know soon enough :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 spirou - 2018-12-16 5:01 PM pelmetman - 2018-12-16 4:03 PM You mean these rules? ;-) ........ After arriving in Spain Within 30 days of arriving in Spain, all non-EU/EEA and Swiss citizens who want to stay for longer than three months must apply for a residence card/permit (Tarjeta de Residencia or TIE). You have to apply at the Foreigner’s Office (Oficina de Extranjeros) or police station in the province where you’re living. What you seem to be forgetting is that nobody checks their passport when leaving Switzerland/Norway so nobody has any solid proof they've been your neighbours for longer than 90 days, unless they've been under some sort of constant surveillance. They could also claim they left the country (not even Schengen) for at least one day within that period and therefore not in violation. Whereas they will easily confirm your overstay as I somehow doubt anyone will be entering or exiting UK without some sort of check. They're doing it already now and you're still in Schengen, something tells me the control won't ease once you're out. Even if you bypass UK/Schengen border by going into a third country (lets say Maroc) and entering UK from there, you will still register on the Schengen border. And so far I've always had to produce my passport on outer Schengen borders for a scan/verification. Whether they have some automatic red flag warning on overstaying I don't know, but seems easy enough not to. Whether they enforce the rule I don't know either. But you can let us know soon enough :D You seem not to "know" that every resident on a campsite in Spain has their passport details registered with local plod ;-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirou Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 And currently they still cannot prove or obviously care that you've been permanently in Spain for more than 3 months. You can always say you went to France or Portugal for a weekend without notifying them (why would you?). The local police obviously has little interest in getting rid of those who keep them occupied outside the main season. But that excuse runs out soon as it won't be the local police you will need to deal with. But whether they care remains to be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 spirou - 2018-12-16 6:35 PM And currently they still cannot prove or obviously care that you've been permanently in Spain for more than 3 months. You can always say you went to France or Portugal for a weekend without notifying them (why would you?). The local police obviously has little interest in getting rid of those who keep them occupied outside the main season. But that excuse runs out soon as it won't be the local police you will need to deal with. But whether they care remains to be seen. Incorrect.........reception know we are returning to the UK for Christmas........whilst still retaining our pitch.......ergo the Plod ;-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 16, 2018 Author Share Posted December 16, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-12-16 5:06 PM spirou - 2018-12-16 5:01 PM pelmetman - 2018-12-16 4:03 PM You mean these rules? ;-) ........ After arriving in Spain Within 30 days of arriving in Spain, all non-EU/EEA and Swiss citizens who want to stay for longer than three months must apply for a residence card/permit (Tarjeta de Residencia or TIE). You have to apply at the Foreigner’s Office (Oficina de Extranjeros) or police station in the province where you’re living. What you seem to be forgetting is that nobody checks their passport when leaving Switzerland/Norway so nobody has any solid proof they've been your neighbours for longer than 90 days, unless they've been under some sort of constant surveillance. They could also claim they left the country (not even Schengen) for at least one day within that period and therefore not in violation. Whereas they will easily confirm your overstay as I somehow doubt anyone will be entering or exiting UK without some sort of check. They're doing it already now and you're still in Schengen, something tells me the control won't ease once you're out. Even if you bypass UK/Schengen border by going into a third country (lets say Maroc) and entering UK from there, you will still register on the Schengen border. And so far I've always had to produce my passport on outer Schengen borders for a scan/verification. Whether they have some automatic red flag warning on overstaying I don't know, but seems easy enough not to. Whether they enforce the rule I don't know either. But you can let us know soon enough :D You seem not to "know" that every resident on a campsite in Spain has their passport details registered with local plod ;-) Dave, you really are being obtuse over this! I know you think anything said by anyone who thinks Brexit is a bad idea, is only evidence of their desire to discredit Brexit but, what you are being told, and are repeatedly rejecting, is that the rules governing where you can go and for how long will change when the UK leaves the EU. Sigh! I'll try again. Last time! :-) You seem very unclear on what the Schengen area is. I would urge you to look it up, and make sure you understand it. It is not the EU, it is, in effect, an overlay on the EU, that the EU has adopted. The rules relate to entry to the Schengen area, not to the individual member states. When you enter from outside the Schengen area (the UK is not in Schengen) you are not just entering France, Spain, etc, you are crossing the outer, Schengen area, border. At present you do that from a UK which is in the EU, so you can enter Schengen with no more than a visual passport check, to verify that it is a) genuine, and b) valid. When/if the UK leaves the EU, the rights you have as an EU citizen entering Schengen will disappear. You will then be entering both Schengen and the EU at whatever border as a third-country citizen and, as a third-country visitor, you will have your passport stamped. That stamp will be dated. When you leave the EU/Schengen you will have your passport stamped again with a dated stamp. The time between your entry stamp date your the exit date will be calculated and, if that exceeds 90 days, you will be liable to a fine, possibly a ban on future entry - which will also be recorded in your passport. Since you can't get out of or into the UK, or any other country, without presenting your passport, you cannot escape the evidence of your travel record whenever you cross the Schengen border - in or out. Now, because the Schengen border is the outer border, and inner border checks have been abolished under Schengen, there are no further border checks as you pass between the Schengen/EU states. There will be checks at the Schengen/non-EU state borders, but the only one of those you can get to direct by sea/road from the UK is Norway, and you don't seem to go there! So, post Brexit, if you start your journey from the UK at Dover, your passport will be checked and stamped as you cross the external Schengen border at Calais. You can then carry on across the French/Spanish border into Spain with no further check, because both France and Spain are in Schengen. If you enter Spain direct by ferry the same will happen because, as with France, you will also be crossing the external Schengen border. As a visitor you are limited by the Schengen (i.e not Spanish) rules to 90 days. If you want to spend longer than 90 days in Schengen, you have to get a Schengen visa. So, whatever the Spanish may give you, that may entitle you to spend longer than 90 days in Spain, will need to be a Schengen visa. It should be attached to your passport, and will show its validity and revised exit date/s. If it doesn't, I suspect you may have trouble when you come to exit Schengen on your way out. You would be wise to check whether this temporary residence permit can a) be issued to third country visitors, b) whether it will be accepted as a Schengen visa, c) whether you can obtain one while merely resident on a temporary basis on a campsite, and d) whether it is valid in Schengen states other than Spain - some are not. I'm not going to spend any further time on your post Brexit travel arrangements - only you can get the facts together, because they apply only to you - as the passport holder. You'll have to do your own homework. This is not about Brexit, it is about what rules will apply post-Brexit when the UK has left the EU. Those rules are stated in the Treaty on the Functioning of the EU, and in Article 6 of EU Regulation 2016/399 (of 9 March 2016) and Council Regulation 1683/95 (of 29 May 1995). You should note that both the Treaty and the Regulations pre-date the submission by HMG of their notice of withdrawal from the EU under Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty. These are not pieces of legislation that come into effect only after Brexit, they are legislation that is already in force throughout the EU, under which your travel entitlements will change from those of an EU citizen, to those of a third-country citizen, at whatever date the UK, actually, leaves the EU. This seems to be what you are failing to understand. I'm out now - you're on your own, kiddo! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-12-16 7:02 PM pelmetman - 2018-12-16 5:06 PM spirou - 2018-12-16 5:01 PM pelmetman - 2018-12-16 4:03 PM You mean these rules? ;-) ........ After arriving in Spain Within 30 days of arriving in Spain, all non-EU/EEA and Swiss citizens who want to stay for longer than three months must apply for a residence card/permit (Tarjeta de Residencia or TIE). You have to apply at the Foreigner’s Office (Oficina de Extranjeros) or police station in the province where you’re living. What you seem to be forgetting is that nobody checks their passport when leaving Switzerland/Norway so nobody has any solid proof they've been your neighbours for longer than 90 days, unless they've been under some sort of constant surveillance. They could also claim they left the country (not even Schengen) for at least one day within that period and therefore not in violation. Whereas they will easily confirm your overstay as I somehow doubt anyone will be entering or exiting UK without some sort of check. They're doing it already now and you're still in Schengen, something tells me the control won't ease once you're out. Even if you bypass UK/Schengen border by going into a third country (lets say Maroc) and entering UK from there, you will still register on the Schengen border. And so far I've always had to produce my passport on outer Schengen borders for a scan/verification. Whether they have some automatic red flag warning on overstaying I don't know, but seems easy enough not to. Whether they enforce the rule I don't know either. But you can let us know soon enough :D You seem not to "know" that every resident on a campsite in Spain has their passport details registered with local plod ;-) Dave, you really are being obtuse over this! I know you think anything said by anyone who thinks Brexit is a bad idea, is only evidence of their desire to discredit Brexit but, what you are being told, and are repeatedly rejecting, is that the rules governing where you can go and for how long will change when the UK leaves the EU. Sigh! I'll try again. Last time! :-) You seem very unclear on what the Schengen area is. I would urge you to look it up, and make sure you understand it. It is not the EU, it is, in effect, an overlay on the EU, that the EU has adopted. The rules relate to entry to the Schengen area, not to the individual member states. When you enter from outside the Schengen area (the UK is not in Schengen) you are not just entering France, Spain, etc, you are crossing the outer, Schengen area, border. At present you do that from a UK which is in the EU, so you can enter Schengen with no more than a visual passport check, to verify that it is a) genuine, and b) valid. When/if the UK leaves the EU, the rights you have as an EU citizen entering Schengen will disappear. You will then be entering both Schengen and the EU at whatever border as a third-country citizen and, as a third-country visitor, you will have your passport stamped. That stamp will be dated. When you leave the EU/Schengen you will have your passport stamped again with a dated stamp. The time between your entry stamp date your the exit date will be calculated and, if that exceeds 90 days, you will be liable to a fine, possibly a ban on future entry - which will also be recorded in your passport. Since you can't get out of or into the UK, or any other country, without presenting your passport, you cannot escape the evidence of your travel record whenever you cross the Schengen border - in or out. Now, because the Schengen border is the outer border, and inner border checks have been abolished under Schengen, there are no further border checks as you pass between the Schengen/EU states. There will be checks at the Schengen/non-EU state borders, but the only one of those you can get to direct by sea/road from the UK is Norway, and you don't seem to go there! So, post Brexit, if you start your journey from the UK at Dover, your passport will be checked and stamped as you cross the external Schengen border at Calais. You can then carry on across the French/Spanish border into Spain with no further check, because both France and Spain are in Schengen. If you enter Spain direct by ferry the same will happen because, as with France, you will also be crossing the external Schengen border. As a visitor you are limited by the Schengen (i.e not Spanish) rules to 90 days. If you want to spend longer than 90 days in Schengen, you have to get a Schengen visa. So, whatever the Spanish may give you, that may entitle you to spend longer than 90 days in Spain, will need to be a Schengen visa. It should be attached to your passport, and will show its validity and revised exit date/s. If it doesn't, I suspect you may have trouble when you come to exit Schengen on your way out. You would be wise to check whether this temporary residence permit can a) be issued to third country visitors, b) whether it will be accepted as a Schengen visa, c) whether you can obtain one while merely resident on a temporary basis on a campsite, and d) whether it is valid in Schengen states other than Spain - some are not. I'm not going to spend any further time on your post Brexit travel arrangements - only you can get the facts together, because they apply only to you - as the passport holder. You'll have to do your own homework. This is not about Brexit, it is about what rules will apply post-Brexit when the UK has left the EU. Those rules are stated in the Treaty on the Functioning of the EU, and in Article 6 of EU Regulation 2016/399 (of 9 March 2016) and Council Regulation 1683/95 (of 29 May 1995). You should note that both the Treaty and the Regulations pre-date the submission by HMG of their notice of withdrawal from the EU under Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty. These are not pieces of legislation that come into effect only after Brexit, they are legislation that is already in force throughout the EU, under which your travel entitlements will change from those of an EU citizen, to those of a third-country citizen, at whatever date the UK, actually, leaves the EU. This seems to be what you are failing to understand. I'm out now - you're on your own, kiddo! :-D More blah blah blah Brian *-) ......... Remind me ;-) ......... When was the last time you spent more than 90 days in Spain? :-| ....... NEVER..........Which is the difference between us :-| ........ I know what I'm talking about >:-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solwaybuggier Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 I think the mods should maybe lock this thread? It started out as a useful and constructive discussion of an issue that bothers many of us. But due largely to the obsessive rants of one member it is just going round in endless circles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 Solwaybuggier - 2018-12-16 9:17 PM I think the mods should maybe lock this thread? It started out as a useful and constructive discussion of an issue that bothers many of us. But due largely to the obsessive rants of one member it is just going round in endless circles. You mean you don't like the factual reality ;-) ....... Coz it doesn't fit in with your Remoaner doom & gloom message :D ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFrenchConnection Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 Yes, please lock the thread. Pelmetman has the same grasp on reality as Donald Trump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 No, dont lock the thread because it could well prove useful and also its funny watching Dave trying to come up with hair brained ideas to flout the rules on immigration he is so adamantly against for everyone else in Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-12-16 11:11 PM No, dont lock the thread because it could well prove useful and also its funny watching Dave trying to come up with hair brained ideas to flout the rules on immigration he is so adamantly against for everyone else in Europe. Harebrained? :-S ......... "Within 30 days of arriving in Spain, all non-EU/EEA and Swiss citizens who want to stay for longer than three months must apply for a residence card/permit (Tarjeta de Residencia or TIE). You have to apply at the Foreigner’s Office (Oficina de Extranjeros) or police station in the province where you’re living. You’ll need a valid passport/travel ID, colour passport photos and a completed application form, plus proof of your address, bank statements, medical insurance, and other documentation relating to your own situation, such as an employment contract, proof of university enrolment or academic qualifications. This temporary residence permit allows you to stay in Spain for between 90 days and five years, and can be renewed." https://www.expatica.com/new/es/moving/visas/visas-and-immigration-102354/ Them's the rules for ***non EU citizens*** ;-) ......... I will follow them.......if Spain chooses to enforce them :D ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Why bother arguing? I gave up about 50 comments ago when his arguments became so bizarre that I assumed he wasn't a real member but a bot set up to annoy everybody. (And if this is the level of debate by brexiteers I reckon we need to re-examine whether a referendum is a good way of deciding complex questions) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Billggski - 2018-12-17 9:10 AM Why bother arguing? I gave up about 50 comments ago when his arguments became so bizarre that I assumed he wasn't a real member but a bot set up to annoy everybody. Bizarre? :-S ........ Brian's assertion is that we will not be able to stay in the Schengen area for longer than 90 days in 180 ;-) ........ As my links prove........That is completely untrue :-| .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-12-17 9:00 AM Barryd999 - 2018-12-16 11:11 PM No, dont lock the thread because it could well prove useful and also its funny watching Dave trying to come up with hair brained ideas to flout the rules on immigration he is so adamantly against for everyone else in Europe. Harebrained? :-S ......... "Within 30 days of arriving in Spain, all non-EU/EEA and Swiss citizens who want to stay for longer than three months must apply for a residence card/permit (Tarjeta de Residencia or TIE). You have to apply at the Foreigner’s Office (Oficina de Extranjeros) or police station in the province where you’re living. You’ll need a valid passport/travel ID, colour passport photos and a completed application form, plus proof of your address, bank statements, medical insurance, and other documentation relating to your own situation, such as an employment contract, proof of university enrolment or academic qualifications. This temporary residence permit allows you to stay in Spain for between 90 days and five years, and can be renewed." https://www.expatica.com/new/es/moving/visas/visas-and-immigration-102354/ Them's the rules for ***non EU citizens*** ;-) ......... I will follow them.......if Spain chooses to enforce them :D ......... Well as long as the pair of you have an income above £30000 should be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirou Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Provided he is granted temporary residency he's good to go. Nobody ever argued that. It's how it always worked. But this is the first time he admits to plan on following rules :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rael Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 I suppose the other thing to consider after Brexit is medical insurance. EHIC won't be of any use as we will not be in Europe anymore and tying to find medical insurance for more than 3 months could be difficult/expensive. Just found one company that will do 150 days cover (continuous) for £112. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Bring back the gassing thread, all is forgiven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Billggski - 2018-12-17 9:10 AM Why bother arguing? I gave up about 50 comments ago when his arguments became so bizarre that I assumed he wasn't a real member but a bot set up to annoy everybody. (And if this is the level of debate by brexiteers I reckon we need to re-examine whether a referendum is a good way of deciding complex questions) I find your final comment to be nebulous. 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keninpalamos Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 747 - 2018-12-10 5:09 PM You all seem to be forgetting something. When the Tory Party implodes and Jeremy forms the UKSR (United Kingdom Soviet Republic), we will all be subject to strict laws and poverty. The poverty arises from the sudden departure of Industry. The EU will build a wall, a big wall (and make us pay for it). If I were you lot, I would see how many Hens you can get in your motorhome. Well, you don't want it standing there doing nothing. ;-) Jeremy?.....Ah, you mean Clarkson :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 One thing i do not understand is that you vote to get out and do your own on the market, But spend i nice time here, crying about the restrictions. As was the same before EU for us entering UK and the black brigade. still in black uniform at the airports. Who framed roger rabbit here. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 monique.hubrechts@gm - 2018-12-18 5:15 PM One thing i do not understand is that you vote to get out and do your own on the market, But spend i nice time here, crying about the restrictions. As was the same before EU for us entering UK and the black brigade. still in black uniform at the airports. Who framed roger rabbit here. :-D There are no restrictions ;-) ....... Just different rules to follow :D ......... BTW if you encountered the black brigade.......You were on the wrong plane 8-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirou Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 Rules are restrictions by definition :-D there are just less or more restrictive rules, you chose the latter. Or will you deny that as well? :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeco Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 Being over 70 travel insurance is super expensive for AU travellers. I use Visa card travel insurance that is free for the higher cost cards. The extra CC cost was a lot less that the cost of a separate travel insurance policy. The main limitation is you need to spend a set amount of your travel expenses on the card. In my case it is A$250 so pretty easy to spend that without the blink of an eye. Maybe worth checking if the same deal applies in UK, I would be surprised if I told didn't. Not sure if there is a time limit as we are normally away 6 weeks max. Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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