Brian Kirby Posted December 13, 2018 Author Share Posted December 13, 2018 kevina - 2018-12-12 9:31 PM I've input 7 trips of 120 days pa over 2 years and 2 months and both calculators give the ok. Sorry Kevin, but I can't replicate your maths. How many trips, of what duration, did you enter into each year? I don't understand 7 trips of 120 days per annum. Is that 120/7 days per trip, say 17 days per trip, spread over the whole year? Would you travel in mid-winter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirou Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 747 - 2018-12-13 10:10 AM I voted out because the EU Commissioners were getting power mad and Empire building. They put the whole of Europe at risk by encouraging the likes of Ukraine into their 'Club' even though they knew the membership of the Baltic States had angered Russia. Just look at what Russia did in Crimea in retaliation. On top of that they decided to form a European Army FFS. 8-) How many Committee Meetings and how many months before a decision would be reached to repel aggression? OK, entirely valid observation and I agree almost completely. But how does leaving EU provide a solution for UK or the EU? Saying: "we're staying out, this is none of our problem" only ever worked for Switzerland. I seriously doubt UK could use the same excuse. Far too many economic, geographic and power interests at play. Also, re: empire building... Commonwealth is a result of what historical process exactly? It's kind of naive to think the idea of the once great empire is gone from the minds of those same "self serving greedy corrupt Politicians". The playing field changed somewhat, the game is still the same. pelmetman as we want "common sense" controlled migration ........ Which is why I raised the point about the Russians out here.........clearly the EU or Schengen is not stopping them from living here long term.........So why should it prevent us when we leave the EU? Again, leaving EU does nothing to stop illegal migration but does add a whole lot of complications to legal migration. As you will no doubt experience yourself. How is the US doing with their controlled migration via Clinton/Obama/TrumpWall? Hungary has a wall/fence/wire along entire border. So sadly does Slovenia along large part of the southern border. Let's just say the only migration it is stopping is animal migration. Neither is substantial local and frontex police presence. You will not stop people from moving around, even on an island (Malta, Pantelleria, Xios, Lesbos, Samos are just a few examples). Re: Russians. Legal residence comes to mind. How they obtained it is another matter. But I don't know that many Russians, especially not in Spain to comment. I have a few students on student visas and that's about as much as I know. So perhaps you'd care to interview a few and enlighten us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-12-13 10:58 AM Flipping heck Dave! Its perfectly simple. Unless you apply for a permanent residence permit or apply to be a Spanish citizen (the latter you have to give up your old citizenship and passport the former not) all you or the Russians well get is 90 days in Spain unless your prepared to wing it like you seem to be, https://www.gov.uk/guidance/residency-requirements-in-spain I guess it depends on whether the EU reciprocate our offer to the 3 million EU citizens in the UK ;-) ....... So with only 1 million UK expats I'd say the numbers are on our side :-| ......... I guess we'll find out in 106 days :D ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 spirou - 2018-12-13 11:25 AM pelmetman as we want "common sense" controlled migration ........ Which is why I raised the point about the Russians out here.........clearly the EU or Schengen is not stopping them from living here long term.........So why should it prevent us when we leave the EU? Again, leaving EU does nothing to stop illegal migration but does add a whole lot of complications to legal migration. As you will no doubt experience yourself. How is the US doing with their controlled migration via Clinton/Obama/TrumpWall? Hungary has a wall/fence/wire along entire border. So sadly does Slovenia along large part of the southern border. Let's just say the only migration it is stopping is animal migration. Neither is substantial local and frontex police presence. You will not stop people from moving around, even on an island (Malta, Pantelleria, Xios, Lesbos, Samos are just a few examples). Re: Russians. Legal residence comes to mind. How they obtained it is another matter. But I don't know that many Russians, especially not in Spain to comment. I have a few students on student visas and that's about as much as I know. So perhaps you'd care to interview a few and enlighten us? From my understanding if you spend more than half a million euros on a property you get preferential visa treatment ;-) ............ BTW we do have a natural defence to illegal migration called the English channel :D ........ The liberal view that folk should be allowed to migrate at will regardless of whether they have the wherewithal to support themselves is all fine and dandy.......... So long as your prepared to ignore the consequences on the indigenous populations NHS access, housing, job prospects, schools, prison service etc etc :-| .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-12-13 1:07 PM Barryd999 - 2018-12-13 10:58 AM Flipping heck Dave! Its perfectly simple. Unless you apply for a permanent residence permit or apply to be a Spanish citizen (the latter you have to give up your old citizenship and passport the former not) all you or the Russians well get is 90 days in Spain unless your prepared to wing it like you seem to be, https://www.gov.uk/guidance/residency-requirements-in-spain I guess it depends on whether the EU reciprocate our offer to the 3 million EU citizens in the UK ;-) ....... So with only 1 million UK expats I'd say the numbers are on our side :-| ......... I guess we'll find out in 106 days :D ......... These are people living here or in the EU though Dave. Your a tourist, you are not resident in Spain. Whatever the EU and the UK agree on the rights of people already living on both sides of the channel wont apply to you as you do not live in Spain. 90 days will be your lot despite your dodgy bit of paper that says you live on a campsite (well less really as you will need to consider travel time). Give it a go though and let us know how you get on at the border on your way home or if your pulled by a plod who isnt too keen on Brits or Brexit. The only other way all this will become irrelevant is either if we end up in the EEA (Norway) which despite Norway suggesting we can get stuffed is being banded about as one option that Parliament may end up trying to push through but we would also need a Customs union so we may as well stay in which is of course the best way to get the best deal and to carry on with the wonderful thing called "Free Movement". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 13, 2018 Author Share Posted December 13, 2018 Dearly beloved :-) could we please conduct the Third World Brexit War on a different string? I know that as the originator of this string I don't "own" it, but I had hoped, so far as possible, it might keep reasonably to the subject of visiting (and not living in/migrating to) the EU/Schengen post Brexit, as I sensed that many people might be thinking their ability to travel freely in those areas would be unaffected by Brexit. If the string gets diverted onto parallel topics, it will cease to have use as a point of reference. I'll be the first to agree that I don't know all the answers myself, and that I was a somewhat surprised and disappointed by what I have found out - which is why I ended the OP with a question. I'm still hoping that someone on here can definitively answer the question about how the "90 days within any 180 days" rule is, in practice, applied at the border. In that connection, I have now discovered that for nationals of third countries (whether or not they are from visa exempt countries) their passports are stamped with entry and an exit stamps each time they pass through a Schengen border. I have also discovered that fully electronic Schengen immigration controls (ETIAS) will not come into full effect for a year or two, so in the meantime electronic "stamping" of our passports on the ETIAS database will vary depending on the crossing point. I have e-mailed ETIAS for clarification, and the French embassy for details of visas appropriate for longer term visits from third country nationals. These are available, but are issued by the individual states. However, they are not consistant in terms of cost or duration and, as above, some restrict which Schengen states can be visited while others don't. The French visa is said to pass all Schengen borders, including the non-EU ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witzend Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Sooner we get out now the better No deal is better than a deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 13, 2018 Author Share Posted December 13, 2018 Witzend is about how I feel after that valued contribution. Thank you so much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-12-13 4:54 PM Witzend is about how I feel after that valued contribution. Thank you so much! Don't despair Brian. Once we are on our own we have enough warehouses full of imports, coffee shops, nail bars, betting shops, tattoo parlours and car washes to make Britain great again. ( Would have been nice if we manufactured some stuff as well - we used to be quite good at that ). ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 malc d - 2018-12-13 5:05 PM ( Would have been nice if we manufactured some stuff as well - we used to be quite good at that ). ;-) The UK is the 9th largest manufacturer in the world, compared to being the 21st largest population, so not too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cattwg Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 I have sent a query to the C&CC. Basically asking if the Club has given any thought to the ‘Schengen Zone’ problem. I have also pointed them towards the official Schengen Calculator site. I can’t make head nor tail of it either. Watch this space.!!! Cattwg (still positive and happy) :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 malc d - 2018-12-13 5:05 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-12-13 4:54 PM Witzend is about how I feel after that valued contribution. Thank you so much! Don't despair Brian. Once we are on our own we have enough warehouses full of imports, coffee shops, nail bars, betting shops, tattoo parlours and car washes to make Britain great again. ( Would have been nice if we manufactured some stuff as well - we used to be quite good at that ). ;-) Perhaps I should restart my international multi functional pouffe empire? ;-) ............ Nah ........on second thoughts the UK will do fine without my help B-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandy Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 "Nah ........on second thoughts the UK will do fine without my help" At last, something on which we can all agree. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowie Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 I wouldn’t expect a positive reply, not in the next 3-4 months at any rate! Snowie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rael Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 This just came up on BBC News, needs to be read I think. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46564884 Looks like we will have to apply and pay for ETIAS. Says it will take 10 mins to complete. The details needed for the application form will include passport information, education and work experience, as well as background questions about criminal records or medical conditions. Sounds like the USA system, so if you have a criminal record your probably stuffed!! I'm curious about the medical information, does this mean you might be rejected if you have a current medical condition? All a bit strange to me, but what do I know, Clearly though its going to make European travel more complex and more expensive as Sterling is stuffed and not going to get any better apparently. BTW it says you can stay for 90 days in a 180 day period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zydeco Joe Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 Just spotted the item today on the BBC page. One more thing than Farage Johnson etc forgot to tell us. How many more things will we find out in the next few months. Peoples vote the only way to stop this BIG CON...…. ps not seen any planning applications for the brand new hospitals we were all getting you know the one a week we would get if we vote out !!!!!!. pps anybody heard from any Euro MPs, we all have them but doubt if anybody knows there names. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 Won't go down very well in Ireland! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 I have deliberately stayed out of Brexit type posts so far, but I wouldn't worry about new hospitals. My wife has worked in the NHS for over 40 years. We can't fully staff the hospitals we've got now and the NHS is heavily reliant on foreign workers, partly because it is impossible to find enough British people willing to do a lot of the less glamorous jobs which are nevertheless absolutely necessary to keep hospitals running and provide even adequate patient care. We've pushed all our young people into getting university educations, and they now enter the world of work with an attitude that because they have a degree (albeit in music technology or indigenous American history as just two examples) a lot of tasks are beneath them. You can't even get a lot of trained nurses to clear up bodily fluids and other messes apparently, because after they've done it once and ticked it off there training requirements, it's "not their job" as qualified nursing staff. My wife and many of her colleagues believe that, if foreign unskilled workers are forced to leave the UK, it will be a death knell for the NHS as we know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandy Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 rael - 2018-12-14 12:44 PM Clearly though its going to make European travel more complex and more expensive as Sterling is stuffed and not going to get any better apparently. Seven euro for three years. Probably the smallest single cost anyone will incur when travelling into Europe. Even a set of beam deflectors will probably cost that much. You don't give a source for your contention that Sterling is "stuffed", but from what I've read the consensus seems to be that it could drop a bit further in the short term, because of the continued uncertainty, but is currently undervalued and will pick up in the long term. As to the other post calling for a "people's vote", we had one two years ago. Having decided to leave, the only question that could legitimately be put now is whether to accept the deal on offer or to leave without one. Even as a leave supporter, I wouldn't want that one put to a public vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 "You don't give a source for your contention that Sterling is "stuffed", but from what I've read the consensus seems to be that it could drop a bit further in the short term, because of the continued uncertainty, but is currently undervalued and will pick up in the long term. " Having only €100 left of the euros I bought at 1.43 before the referendum I am afraid sterling is definitely stuffed. Why are brexiters so afraid of a people's vote? Because the penny has finally dropped that the public were lied to and misled by a set of rich public schoolboys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zydeco Joe Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 We did have a vote two years ago shame we were lied to BIG time. Now we know the truth well some of the truth that is. The £7 might be a small cost but the pound at a all time low (just got 1.06 euros to the pound and I call that a Big cost). The 90 days in 180 will cause me even BIGGER problems and I think many other motorhomes as well, just go to Spain in the winter months and see how many fellow motorhomers will be affected. Lets drop this get out at all costs. Just think what we could do with the 39 Billion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 rael - 2018-12-14 12:44 PM This just came up on BBC News, needs to be read I think. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46564884 Looks like we will have to apply and pay for ETIAS. Says it will take 10 mins to complete. The details needed for the application form will include passport information, education and work experience, as well as background questions about criminal records or medical conditions. Sounds like the USA system, so if you have a criminal record your probably stuffed!! I'm curious about the medical information, does this mean you might be rejected if you have a current medical condition? All a bit strange to me, but what do I know, Clearly though its going to make European travel more complex and more expensive as Sterling is stuffed and not going to get any better apparently. BTW it says you can stay for 90 days in a 180 day period. It states on their site; Such questions will pertain to any medical conditions or other infectious or contagious parasitic diseases; criminal records; travel to war-zone countries as well as any previous immigration or travel history which resulted in the applicant being deported or rejected entry into an EU member country; So i imagine they will want to know of any pre-existing medical conditions and prescribed medication a person will be carrying. It also requires address of permanent residence which may well be a problem for those 'flying below the radar'. If given as a UK address, that can easily be checked against the electoral roll. If using an address in an EU country, you could end up making yourself non-resident UK. https://etias.com/about-etias/etias-requirements Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 Deneb - 2018-12-14 1:57 PM I have deliberately stayed out of Brexit type posts so far, but I wouldn't worry about new hospitals. My wife has worked in the NHS for over 40 years. We can't fully staff the hospitals we've got now and the NHS is heavily reliant on foreign workers, partly because it is impossible to find enough British people willing to do a lot of the less glamorous jobs which are nevertheless absolutely necessary to keep hospitals running and provide even adequate patient care. We've pushed all our young people into getting university educations, and they now enter the world of work with an attitude that because they have a degree (albeit in music technology or indigenous American history as just two examples) a lot of tasks are beneath them. You can't even get a lot of trained nurses to clear up bodily fluids and other messes apparently, because after they've done it once and ticked it off there training requirements, it's "not their job" as qualified nursing staff. My wife and many of her colleagues believe that, if foreign unskilled workers are forced to leave the UK, it will be a death knell for the NHS as we know it. Sorry my friend but I have to disagree with you on this. Why is their a shortage of British born Nurses? Simply because we do not pay them while in training. My Daughter had to study hard for 2 years to qualify as a Theatre Nurse (ODP or summat it is called these days). She did not get a wage, she got a Bursary ..... of £80 a month. Now you tell me, who do you know that would work hard (without the firm offer of a job at the end of it) for £20 a week and buy all their own textbooks and pay their commuting costs out of that. Every qualified Nurse must have a Degree which seems ridiculous, it's like saying every Mechanic or Electrician needs one. My Wife worked for years as an Auxiliary Nurse on a Stroke Ward, they could not retain qualified Staff as it was not high tech, it was Donkey work. Nobody studies hard for a Degree to do dirty work and labouring. Your argument is flawed in that you say the loss of unskilled foreigners will impact on the NHS. It seems these are two totally different points. When changes are put forward to ease the shortage, there is opposition. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/30/earn-learn-plan-nurses-new-part-time-degrees/ My Daughter is now earning a wage but is still studying. In fact we were at Newcastle University a week ago to see her being awarded her latest Diploma along with her Daughter (our Granddaughter) who completed a Foundation Degree in Working with Children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandy Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 Billggski - 2018-12-14 2:30 PM Having only €100 left of the euros I bought at 1.43 before the referendum I am afraid sterling is definitely stuffed. Why are brexiters so afraid of a people's vote? Because the penny has finally dropped that the public were lied to and misled by a set of rich public schoolboys? So the sole basis for your assertion that "Sterling is stuffed and not going to get any better" is the current exchange rate. Enough said. I'm not afraid of a vote, I just don't see the point of asking the same question twice. What if it went the other way? Surely it would be only fair to make it best of three. Or is only one side allowed a second chance to get what they want? We were indeed lied to, from both sides. It happens every time we vote on anything. The trick is to pick the few grains of truth from among the lies and to use a bit of judgment. I never believed that the £350m was going to go to the health service once we left and stopped contributing to the EU (which, incidentally, nobody said it would), but if I had I'd at least wait until we were out before complaining that that hadn't happened (I know it wasn't you who raised that, but better than posting a second response). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cattwg Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 To return to the subject of the original post. I’ve had a reply to my 90 in 180 days query to the C&CC. As I expected they were unable to give much more clarification. They did direct me to https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/travelling-to-the-eu-with-a-uk-passport-if-theres-no-brexit-deal/travelling-to-the-eu-with-a-uk-passport-if-theres-no-brexit-deal . This reiterates the 90 in 180 days rule but offers no real clarification. “… of a duration of no more than 90 days in any 180-day period, which entails considering the 180-day period preceding each day of stay …” The above statement from the document seems to suggest that there can be more than one stay within a 180-day period provided they do not aggregate to more than 90 days. The document does go into some detail regarding passport requirements. The C&CC did say that they intend to offer advice when the situation is clearer. Cattwg :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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