Stays in Schengen area post Brexit

[Brian Kirby]

Geeco - 2018-12-11 9:16 AM

 

Brian, as a follow up to my last post my wife has been searching the Internet for additional information to assist you and found the following on a backpacker site. The site suggests that France will provide a Long term visa to those persons that can prove they have  thirty thousand Euros to support themselves without working. So in addition to that option we could ( AU passport holders) spend 90 days in a Schengen country, leave  on say 89 days then travel to Uk and stay for 6 months then go back to a Schengen country for a further 90 days. So it may be that in the future an AU passport will allow easier movement in UK/EU than a UK passport.

The other issue that confuses me relates to the hard border between North & South Ireland or if you like Eire and UK. If you will need a passport as a UK citizen to travel to an EU country post "B" why should you not need a Passport to move from one end of Ireland to the other.

I see that situation to be the same as the "hard" border between Canada & USA. If I understand it correctly the south of Ireland is a separate country to UK so why not a "hard" border?  Interesting times over the next month or so, riots in Paris and crisis talks in Brussels. Cheers,

Hi again Gary. Yes, although from what I read, it seems that if you had spent 90 days in Schengen and left, you would only need to spend 90 days (and not six months) out of Schengen before you could re-enter. Have I misunderstood you, or the rules? :-)

 

Ireland? That is a very looooooooooonnnggg story which, if you will forgive me, I'd prefer to keep out of this string! :-D Very simply put, if any fixed border control installations are erected along the NI/Eire border, any one of a number of participants will start blowing them up, from which many things would proceed. It isn't a proper national border, it is (mostly!) just the historic (pre AD1000) border of the Irish province of Ulster. It is 310 miles long, it crosses open fields, cuts through towns, in some cases through peoples houses and gardens, and it has 270 road crossings, most of which are (very! :-)) minor roads. Sounds like your kind of place. :-D

[Barryd999]

This wont effect Brian or those that travel twice in a year for less than three months but one thing that seems to have been overlooked for those that normally travel for more than three months is insurance and medical cover. My current AIB motorhome policy is tailored for trips of up to six months. My old Safeguard one was 365. If its illegal to be in Schengen for more than 90 days post Brexit will vehicle and medical insurance be altered to reflect that with the maximum single trip duration for both being 90 days? Why would they cover you beyond that when you will as has been stated be an illegal immigrant? It may not happen but of course it might.

 

Found some interesting stuff on Schengen and flouting the rules and it does sound to me that they take it pretty seriously and even if you manage to leave after over staying it sounds like it will come back and bite you on the arse.

 

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/consequences-of-overstaying-in-schengen-area/

 

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/general-europe/fines-for-overstaying-in-schengen-and-for-how-many-days-of-limit-exceeded

 

Fines seem to be between €500 and €1000 euros and you can be deported immediately which begs the question, what does that deportation entail? Are you dragged off, arrested and stuck on a plane? What would they do with a motorhome with you, your family and your stuff in it? Allow you to just carry on with a promise to clear off soon or impound your vehicle and throw you in jail or on the next flight?

 

All sounds a bit dramatic but maybe because we have never had to worry about it like other third countries clearly do. The way things are going I dont imagine the authorities in Europe will be doing the "Good ole" Brits any favours.

[Brian Kirby]

Robbo - 2018-12-11 10:52 AM...…………………...However, I suspect the border control authorities would record your first day of travel (for ease of monitoring) as being the start date of your 180 day period.

Which is really where I came in. :-)

 

The actual wording is "90 days within any 180 day period". That word "any" is there for a reason, so my immediate thought was; if I can set day 1 of the first 180 day period as, say 13 Feb, I can then travel for up to 90 days during that period which would end 13 August. If I could then set a new 180 day period to start 15 August, I could take a further 90 days during that 180 day period, which would end 11 of next February, leaving me free to start another 180 day period on 13 Feb, and so on. All well and fine.

 

However, when I played with the Schengen calculator it appeared that this is not possible, and that the date the 180 day period commences is nailed to the first date of travel, and that a subsequent 180 day period cannot overlap with one that is already in existence.

 

So, since 2 x 180 = 360, to get the benefit of two extended periods of travel per year, one has to juggle the start dates of each period into the 5 days left over from a 365 day year (bonus day leap years! :-)).

 

The (disagreeable!) fix is possibly to make a one day trip to Schengen on 13 Feb to kick off the first period, and a second on 15 August to kick off the second period, but what a drag! Apart from anything else, where the hell does one go in northern France for one day in mid-February!

 

Also, I live reasonably near the Channel (though I'm not doing one day trips Newhaven-Dieppe @ 4 hours each way in mid Feb, thank you!), but what about those whose nearest trip to Schengen is even longer, or whose trip to their nearest UK port would take several hours - especially in mid-winter? Doesn't look good, does it?

[Robbo]

Brian Kirby - 2018-12-11 11:15 AM

In saying you have never entered the Schengen area, Robbo, are you saying you have never left the UK for your overseas trips, except to cross to Ireland or for long haul travel? I ask because, AFAIK, all sea routes from UK to mainland Europe arrive at a Schengen area port. West to east, that would include Spain, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, Germany and Norway.

 

I used the term "we" as meaning the "UK ". Hope that clarifies my earlier comment about Schengen :-D

[Guest pelmetman]

spirou - 2018-12-11 9:43 AM

 

I doubt Ireland issue is clear to anyone except possibly the (northern) Irish. As if any current border control between EU/non EU country is such a big deal to travel across, 90% of vehicles just get waived through. I've had more problems (time wasted on a daily basis) crossing between EU countries (Slovenia/Austria) in the past couple of years than anywhere else except possibly Croatia/Serbia during summer weekends and that has more to do with country relations than EU border security.

 

Pelmetman is more than likely correct in thinking nobody will care much about him and his residence status if he doesn't give them a reason to. But there's always the: what if someone does? Effectively he is/will be an illegal immigrant brexiteers like to complain about so much :-D

 

The NI border is nothing more than a useful EU stick to beat the UK into submission with *-) ..........

 

They never gave a toss about it before :-| .........

 

As for your assertion that I'm an illegal immigrant ;-) .........

 

If they were self financed like me :D ..........

 

Then I wouldn't have a issue with them coming to the UK >:-) .......

 

 

 

 

[Guest pelmetman]

Brian Kirby - 2018-12-11 12:31 PM

 

Robbo - 2018-12-11 10:52 AM...…………………...However, I suspect the border control authorities would record your first day of travel (for ease of monitoring) as being the start date of your 180 day period.

Which is really where I came in. :-)

 

The actual wording is "90 days within any 180 day period". That word "any" is there for a reason, so my immediate thought was; if I can set day 1 of the first 180 day period as, say 13 Feb, I can then travel for up to 90 days during that period which would end 13 August. If I could then set a new 180 day period to start 15 August, I could take a further 90 days during that 180 day period, which would end 11 of next February, leaving me free to start another 180 day period on 13 Feb, and so on. All well and fine.

 

However, when I played with the Schengen calculator it appeared that this is not possible, and that the date the 180 day period commences is nailed to the first date of travel, and that a subsequent 180 day period cannot overlap with one that is already in existence.

 

So, since 2 x 180 = 360, to get the benefit of two extended periods of travel per year, one has to juggle the start dates of each period into the 5 days left over from a 365 day year (bonus day leap years! :-)).

 

The (disagreeable!) fix is possibly to make a one day trip to Schengen on 13 Feb to kick off the first period, and a second on 15 August to kick off the second period, but what a drag! Apart from anything else, where the hell does one go in northern France for one day in mid-February!

 

Also, I live reasonably near the Channel (though I'm not doing one day trips Newhaven-Dieppe @ 4 hours each way in mid Feb, thank you!), but what about those whose nearest trip to Schengen is even longer, or whose trip to their nearest UK port would take several hours - especially in mid-winter? Doesn't look good, does it?

 

BTW Brian ;-) ........

 

You never did explain why the Russians appear to have no problems living here long term? :D ...........

 

 

 

 

[spirou]

Brian Kirby - 2018-12-11 1:31 PM

The (disagreeable!) fix is possibly to make a one day trip to Schengen on 13 Feb to kick off the first period, and a second on 15 August to kick off the second period, but what a drag! Apart from anything else, where the hell does one go in northern France for one day in mid-February!

 

Also, I live reasonably near the Channel (though I'm not doing one day trips Newhaven-Dieppe @ 4 hours each way in mid Feb, thank you!), but what about those whose nearest trip to Schengen is even longer, or whose trip to their nearest UK port would take several hours - especially in mid-winter? Doesn't look good, does it?

 

Why not just hop on a weekend flight to anywhere in Schengen in January/February and July/August? Just wait for some 9.99 low cost airline ticket, have a nice lunch/dinner somewhere and fly back. Seems to me the least problematic/expensive solution to your problem.

[Bulletguy]

pelmetman - 2018-12-11 7:47 AM

 

Bulletguy - 2018-12-10 9:39 PM

 

pelmetman - 2018-12-10 9:18 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2018-12-10 8:50 PM

 

Robbo - 2018-12-10 8:20 PM

 

We have a similar travel itinerary as you Brian, Spring / Autumn trips lasting less than 90 days.

 

I think the 180 day period would be extremely difficult to monitor (by the authorities) unless it started on your first day of travel.

Ever wondered why you no longer need to show your booking details when you pull up at any of the ferry port booths? They've already got it on their database the minute you pull up. ANPR....making monitoring of your exit and return very simple.

 

 

Lastly, we have never been in the Schengen zone, as you rightly mention. But, given visa free travel to the Schengen countries by being a member of the EU. Perhaps we've always been subjected to the 90 day travel restrictions, but they were never enforced ???

Bib is correct. Enforcement will be very simple though due to the above mentioned....ANPR.

 

Hate to point out the bleedin obvious ;-) .........all the ANPR can prove is where the vehicle was........not who the driver is :D ..........

Matters not "who the driver was" and if you'd read my post instead of jumping around you'd see i made no mention of "the driver". The vehicle detail is recorded as is the name of the person/s in which the booking was made. The vehicle registration also tracks back to an owner.

 

However, if Dover Harbour board, the governing body responsible for the port, felt it necessary to electronically record image of the vehicle driver, that's very simply done as the electronics are already in place at the booths....eg an FPN doesn't just identify the vehicle reg number, it also identifies the driver.

 

Incorrecto.........again ;-) ..........It identifies who made the booking........and........ tracks back to the registered keeper *-) ..........

Err.....which was what i said. I suggest you read the post you're quoting

 

The vehicle detail is recorded as is the name of the person/s in which the booking was made.

 

The vehicle registration also tracks back to an owner.

 

[Bulletguy]

Robbo - 2018-12-11 10:52 AM

 

Bulletguy - 2018-12-10 8:50 PM

 

Robbo - 2018-12-10 8:20 PM

 

We have a similar travel itinerary as you Brian, Spring / Autumn trips lasting less than 90 days.

 

I think the 180 day period would be extremely difficult to monitor (by the authorities) unless it started on your first day of travel.

 

The point I was making was about the "180 day period" and it's start date. It could benefit the traveller to have the 180 day start date commencing in advance of the first day of travel. For example, Brian could easily accommodate both his Spring and Autumn trips if the start date of the 180 day period commenced in Jan/Feb.

 

However, I suspect the border control authorities would record your first day of travel (for ease of monitoring) as being the start date of your 180 day period.

That's how i've understood it. Very simple to monitor.

[Guest pelmetman]

Bulletguy - 2018-12-11 3:16 PM

 

The vehicle registration also tracks back to an owner.[/i]

 

Incorrecto again.........it tracks back to the registered keeper........not the owner .....Or....... driver :D .........

 

 

[Guest pelmetman]

Brian Kirby - 2018-12-11 11:47 AM

 

Geeco - 2018-12-11 9:16 AM

 

Brian, as a follow up to my last post my wife has been searching the Internet for additional information to assist you and found the following on a backpacker site. The site suggests that France will provide a Long term visa to those persons that can prove they have  thirty thousand Euros to support themselves without working. So in addition to that option we could ( AU passport holders) spend 90 days in a Schengen country, leave  on say 89 days then travel to Uk and stay for 6 months then go back to a Schengen country for a further 90 days. So it may be that in the future an AU passport will allow easier movement in UK/EU than a UK passport.

The other issue that confuses me relates to the hard border between North & South Ireland or if you like Eire and UK. If you will need a passport as a UK citizen to travel to an EU country post "B" why should you not need a Passport to move from one end of Ireland to the other.

I see that situation to be the same as the "hard" border between Canada & USA. If I understand it correctly the south of Ireland is a separate country to UK so why not a "hard" border?  Interesting times over the next month or so, riots in Paris and crisis talks in Brussels. Cheers,

Hi again Gary. Yes, although from what I read, it seems that if you had spent 90 days in Schengen and left, you would only need to spend 90 days (and not six months) out of Schengen before you could re-enter. Have I misunderstood you, or the rules? :-)

 

Ireland? That is a very looooooooooonnnggg story which, if you will forgive me, I'd prefer to keep out of this string! :-D Very simply put, if any fixed border control installations are erected along the NI/Eire border, any one of a number of participants will start blowing them up, from which many things would proceed. It isn't a proper national border, it is (mostly!) just the historic (pre AD1000) border of the Irish province of Ulster. It is 310 miles long, it crosses open fields, cuts through towns, in some cases through peoples houses and gardens, and it has 270 road crossings, most of which are (very! :-)) minor roads. Sounds like your kind of place. :-D

 

Scaremongering again Brian *-) ........Besides they haven't stopped killing each other :-| .......

 

It just doesn't reach main stream media very often nowadays ;-) ......

 

 

[Bulletguy]

Brian Kirby - 2018-12-11 11:15 AM

 

Bulletguy - 2018-12-10 8:50 PM

 

Robbo - 2018-12-10 8:20 PM

 

We have a similar travel itinerary as you Brian, Spring / Autumn trips lasting less than 90 days.

 

I think the 180 day period would be extremely difficult to monitor (by the authorities) unless it started on your first day of travel.

Ever wondered why you no longer need to show your booking details when you pull up at any of the ferry port booths? They've already got it on their database the minute you pull up. ANPR....making monitoring of your exit and return very simple.

 

Lastly, we have never been in the Schengen zone, as you rightly mention. But, given visa free travel to the Schengen countries by being a member of the EU. Perhaps we've always been subjected to the 90 day travel restrictions, but they were never enforced ???

Bib is correct. Enforcement will be very simple though due to the above mentioned....ANPR.

Paul, if you check the Schengen visa requirements, I think you will find that the entry conditions refer to individuals, not vehicles.

 

As I understand the site, it will be your passport that will be examined which (assuming the new, non-EU type post Brexit passports continue to be machine readable) takes virtually no time. Your entry into Schengen will be recorded at that point, and you will (according to the Schengen website), also be required to present your passport on leaving the Schengen area. Thus, each time you enter/leave Schengen, the duration of your trip will be recorded. As I understand the site, the entry "stamp" also sets the commencement of the 180 day period within which you are allowed to spend 90 days in total in the Schengen area.

 

The only possible linkage between vehicle and passport holder is through the present system as operated at the tunnel (and I assume the ferries), of pre-registering the passports in order to allow your vehicle to be "waived through" the control. I assume this will fix the commencement of the 180 day period as commencing on the date the vehicle (and hence the occupants with their passports pre-registered) actually presents. It isn't clear to me under whose jurisdiction that arrangement was made, so I have no idea whether it will/would survive Brexit. Best to assume that physical inspection of passports will become routine post Brexit, I think.

 

So, in answer to Robbo's question, recording one's comings and goings, and their durations, will be an automated process which, as I see it, will be extremely difficult to bypass because it does not depend on in-country checks (although it seems that, as third country visitors, we shall be required to register at hotels, camp sites, etc, and I assume for aires, the local town hall). So, in addition to knowing when/where you enter and leave, and so how long you have stayed, they will also know where you have been, all through the Schengen recording system.

 

I have to emphasise that this will not mirror present practice as we presently enter Schengen as EU citizens, whereas post Brexit we will be entering as third country citizens with whatever rights any future negotiated deal (the present "deal" is a withdrawal agreement only, and does not address future arrangements for travel) may confer on us, or no rights at all in the event of a "no deal" Brexit - saving those granted to third country citizens (according to whether UK goes on the "visa" list or the "no visa" list) under present Schengen legislation.

 

In saying you have never entered the Schengen area, Robbo, are you saying you have never left the UK for your overseas trips, except to cross to Ireland or for long haul travel? I ask because, AFAIK, all sea routes from UK to mainland Europe arrive at a Schengen area port. West to east, that would include Spain, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, Germany and Norway.

 

All EU states except (currently) Britain and Ireland (with opt-outs), Croatia, Bulgaria, Romania, and Cyprus (all treaty committed to join) are in Schengen, plus the non-EU states of Switzerland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Iceland.

Brian....one of the police officers who pulled me in Romania accessed a database i assume to similar to our ANPR which showed him my point date and time of entry into Romania, and from which country. He did all this in seconds at the road side on some kind of ipad. Obviously the language was all Romanian and the only part i could read was my van registration and the name of the border i'd entered at three days previously. The point i'm making is as they can obviously already do that with ease now, electronic monitoring of UK tourists will be very simple.

 

You mentioned registration at campsites, hotels etc. Interestingly this was being done in Hungary long before any of this current political nonsense. I had to fill in forms stating the time and date i'd crossed the border into Hungary and length of stay planned. I'm used to leaving my ACSI campcard at site reception offices, but found what i was asked for in Hungary a step in the wrong direction. When i asked at reception the reason she openly told me, "it's for police".

[Bulletguy]

pelmetman - 2018-12-11 2:02 PM

 

BTW Brian ;-) ........

 

You never did explain why the Russians appear to have no problems living here long term? :D ...........

That was explained to you by poster Marvin.

pelmetman - 2018-12-11 3:28 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2018-12-11 3:16 PM

 

The vehicle registration also tracks back to an owner.[/i]

 

Incorrecto again.........it tracks back to the registered keeper........not the owner .....Or....... driver :D .........

You're being very silly now as usual with pedantry,

[Guest pelmetman]

Bulletguy - 2018-12-11 3:58 PM

 

pelmetman - 2018-12-11 2:02 PM

 

BTW Brian ;-) ........

 

You never did explain why the Russians appear to have no problems living here long term? :D ...........

That was explained to you by poster Marvin.

pelmetman - 2018-12-11 3:28 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2018-12-11 3:16 PM

 

The vehicle registration also tracks back to an owner.[/i]

 

Incorrecto again.........it tracks back to the registered keeper........not the owner .....Or....... driver :D .........

You're being very silly now as usual with pedantry,

 

To the above........Nope.....and.....Nope ;-) .........

 

Perhaps you should keep off the Remoaner Dope >:-) .......

 

 

 

 

[TheFrenchConnection]

It's an EU law - Spain and France are both in the EU still as far as I know.

 

If Spain is where you spend most of your time you are legally resident there, like it or not. Rather unusual to have a UK national resident in an EU country so stridently wanting to lose their rights, but each to his own.

 

Frankly I have better things to do than deal with Trolls so I'll just skip Pelmetman's ramblings from now on.

 

 

 

 

[spirou]

pelmetman - 2018-12-11 2:59 PM

 

As for your assertion that I'm an illegal immigrant ;-) .........

 

If they were self financed like me :D ..........

 

Then I wouldn't have a issue with them coming to the UK >:-) .......

 

sorry for veering off topic...

 

Curiously the same absurd and easily disproved logic seems to be a favourite with right wing conservatives in every country :-D As if brexit will make any difference with illegal immigration as opposed to making it harder than it needs to be for those that actually would be self financed as you put it *-)

 

But then again, you voted out and nobody is trying hard to stop you. Leave or remain won't make much of a difference to me personally. In my 10 or so visits over the past 25 years, before & after joining the EU, I never felt very welcome as a visitor in the UK so definitely not going to be rushing to move there any time soon. Just means it will be a bit harder to visit the in-laws, so perhaps it's a good thing? >:-)

 

And since you're in Spain it seems you wanted out in more ways than one :-D

[Cattwg]

I’ve not read all the posts attaching to this thread, so I apologise if this link or this point has been posted before. http://adambard.github.io/schengencalc/ links to a ‘Schengen Calculator’ which claims to calculate whether or not trips to the Schengen Area are legal.

I input a 50-day trip through May – June 2019. Another 50-day trip November – December 2019 and an 18-day trip during July 2019. They were passed as OK.

Then I put in 1st May 2019 to 31st August 2019 which of course is 123 days. This was deemed illegal as shown below.

“This schedule violates Schengen Visa rules! Between May 1st, 2019 and October 27th, 2019, you will stay for 123 days”. [1st May to 27th October is 180 days and the use of the word visa is a moot point at this time.]

I then entered more of these illegal stays and interestingly the 180 day period always started on the first day of entry into the Area.

So it would appear that the 180 day period is always counted to start on entry to the Schengen Area.

Those of us who also take package holidays and cruises to Europe would have to be careful not to inadvertently break the 90 days in 180 days rule.

Cattwg :-D

[Bulletguy]

Cattwg - 2018-12-11 8:26 PM

 

I’ve not read all the posts attaching to this thread, so I apologise if this link or this point has been posted before. http://adambard.github.io/schengencalc/ links to a ‘Schengen Calculator’ which claims to calculate whether or not trips to the Schengen Area are legal.

Very useful link though visa or not, i suspect the 90 day rule (which was already in place for British) will simply be more strictly enforced against individuals flouting it should exiting the EU occur.....and the ECJ have now ruled UK can unilaterally cancel Brexit and remain in the EU.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-46481643

[Geeco]

Brian Kirby - 2018-12-11 12:47 PM

Geeco - 2018-12-11 9:16 AMBrian, as a follow up to my last post my wife has been searching the Internet for additional information to assist you and found the following on a backpacker site. The site suggests that France will provide a Long term visa to those persons that can prove they have  thirty thousand Euros to support themselves without working. So in addition to that option we could ( AU passport holders) spend 90 days in a Schengen country, leave  on say 89 days then travel to Uk and stay for 6 months then go back to a Schengen country for a further 90 days. So it may be that in the future an AU passport will allow easier movement in UK/EU than a UK passport.The other issue that confuses me relates to the hard border between North & South Ireland or if you like Eire and UK. If you will need a passport as a UK citizen to travel to an EU country post "B" why should you not need a Passport to move from one end of Ireland to the other.I see that situation to be the same as the "hard" border between Canada & USA. If I understand it correctly the south of Ireland is a separate country to UK so why not a "hard" border?  Interesting times over the next month or so, riots in Paris and crisis talks in Brussels. Cheers,

Hi again Gary. Yes, although from what I read, it seems that if you had spent 90 days in Schengen and left, you would only need to spend 90 days (and not six months) out of Schengen before you could re-enter. Have I misunderstood you, or the rules? :-)Ireland? That is a very looooooooooonnnggg story which, if you will forgive me, I'd prefer to keep out of this string! :-D Very simply put, if any fixed border control installations are erected along the NI/Eire border, any one of a number of participants will start blowing them up, from which many things would proceed. It isn't a proper national border, it is (mostly!) just the historic (pre AD1000) border of the Irish province of Ulster. It is 310 miles long, it crosses open fields, cuts through towns, in some cases through peoples houses and gardens, and it has 270 road crossings, most of which are (very! :-)) minor roads. Sounds like your kind of place. :-D

Brian re the 6 months gap in the UK (see above) I was thinking of that as a maximum period although I did not write it that way. Your comments on the Irish border has wet my appitite for more learning on that obviously very complex topic.

Speaking of topics this thread has been for me a most interesting one that has I suspect put more worms in the Brexit can than it has taken out. Thank you Brian for initiating the debate, it is one that has had me opening my iPad every morning before breakfast for the overnight instalment. Cheers,

[Guest pelmetman]

Bulletguy - 2018-12-11 3:16 PM

 

pelmetman - 2018-12-11 7:47 AM

 

Bulletguy - 2018-12-10 9:39 PM

 

pelmetman - 2018-12-10 9:18 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2018-12-10 8:50 PM

 

Robbo - 2018-12-10 8:20 PM

 

We have a similar travel itinerary as you Brian, Spring / Autumn trips lasting less than 90 days.

 

I think the 180 day period would be extremely difficult to monitor (by the authorities) unless it started on your first day of travel.

Ever wondered why you no longer need to show your booking details when you pull up at any of the ferry port booths? They've already got it on their database the minute you pull up. ANPR....making monitoring of your exit and return very simple.

 

 

Lastly, we have never been in the Schengen zone, as you rightly mention. But, given visa free travel to the Schengen countries by being a member of the EU. Perhaps we've always been subjected to the 90 day travel restrictions, but they were never enforced ???

Bib is correct. Enforcement will be very simple though due to the above mentioned....ANPR.

 

Hate to point out the bleedin obvious ;-) .........all the ANPR can prove is where the vehicle was........not who the driver is :D ..........

Matters not "who the driver was" and if you'd read my post instead of jumping around you'd see i made no mention of "the driver". The vehicle detail is recorded as is the name of the person/s in which the booking was made. The vehicle registration also tracks back to an owner.

 

However, if Dover Harbour board, the governing body responsible for the port, felt it necessary to electronically record image of the vehicle driver, that's very simply done as the electronics are already in place at the booths....eg an FPN doesn't just identify the vehicle reg number, it also identifies the driver.

 

Incorrecto.........again ;-) ..........It identifies who made the booking........and........ tracks back to the registered keeper *-) ..........

Err.....which was what i said. I suggest you read the post you're quoting

 

The vehicle detail is recorded as is the name of the person/s in which the booking was made.

 

The vehicle registration also tracks back to an owner.

 

Perhaps you should have a look at your log book ;-) ..........

 

It'll say this document is NOT proof of ownership :D .........

 

 

[Guest pelmetman]

spirou - 2018-12-11 7:44 PM

 

pelmetman - 2018-12-11 2:59 PM

 

As for your assertion that I'm an illegal immigrant ;-) .........

 

If they were self financed like me :D ..........

 

Then I wouldn't have a issue with them coming to the UK >:-) .......

 

sorry for veering off topic...

 

Curiously the same absurd and easily disproved logic seems to be a favourite with right wing conservatives in every country :-D As if brexit will make any difference with illegal immigration as opposed to making it harder than it needs to be for those that actually would be self financed as you put it *-)

 

 

How so? ;-) ...........

 

Perhaps you could explain why the Russians who are not part of the EU or Schengen are now the largest foreign buyers of property in Spain? :D ...........

 

 

[spirou]

Buying property and obtaining residence are two very different things. One involves a bundle of cash, the other... not so much. Even legally moving permanently between different EU!! countries is a complex undertaking involving numerous visits to various institutions and government offices over several years before being granted permanent residency. Having enough money helps a tiny little bit, having a job waiting quite a bit more, neither is enough for permanent residence but together might be just enough for temporary status.

 

You'll just have to believe me, I've gone through this absurd Kafkaesque experience when my wife moved over. A friend tried/is trying to do the same with a non-EU resident and as far as I know it's still nowhere near finished. My sister in-law moved her own business to London for a few years while her partner was doing post grad work and neither remember it as a fun bureaucratic experience even as temporary "self funded" residents. EU didn't make it easy, but it does make it a whole lot easier to move, open a business, sort out insurance, pay taxes, obtain citizenship etc. Post brexit? There will be a lot of "thanks for the job offer but ...hell no" and that goes both ways. I know plenty of (young) Brits working around EU who're getting f... by old farts who think they're stopping illegal immigration or whatever other b.s. reason they can think of. All the while sitting at a "british" pub in Calp, Benidorm or some other horrible enclave.

 

If you want to be an isolated island, go be one and see how that works out for you...

[PJay]

Geeco - 2018-12-12 12:01 AM

 

Thank you Brian for initiating the debate, it is one that has had me opening my iPad every morning before breakfast for the overnight instalment. Cheers,

 

Gary, I know you come over to Europe, most years. Can I ask, are you a Brit? or where you born in OZ?

 

What do you think about us leaving the EU? Good or bad thing? As an outsider (Well a non resident) would be interesting to know what you opinion is.

We won't hold it against you, what ever your views!!!

PJay

PS Wishing you and yours a very merry Xmas, and envy you your weather!

 

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

pelmetman - 2018-12-11 2:02 PM...…………………...BTW Brian ;-) ........

You never did explain why the Russians appear to have no problems living here long term? :D ...........

I gave my reply to that query way back. Beyond that, as in Gone With the Wind, frankly my dear, I don't give a damn! They are Russian, I am not, they are in Spain, I seldom visit Spain. Who cares?

[Brian Kirby]

Robbo - 2018-12-11 12:48 PM

 

Brian Kirby - 2018-12-11 11:15 AM

In saying you have never entered the Schengen area, Robbo, are you saying you have never left the UK for your overseas trips, except to cross to Ireland or for long haul travel? I ask because, AFAIK, all sea routes from UK to mainland Europe arrive at a Schengen area port. West to east, that would include Spain, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, Germany and Norway.

 

I used the term "we" as meaning the "UK ". Hope that clarifies my earlier comment about Schengen :-D

OK. Thanks. :-)