Chelston Motorhomes

[Keithl]

Solwaybuggier - 2019-06-07 8:03 PM

 

Keithl - 2019-06-07 1:16 PM

 

Paul,

 

Tyre pressures - in my books there is only one way to get the correct pressures, weigh you MH in full touring trim and get both axle weights (or subtract one from total weight) then contact the tyre manufacturer for their advice.

 

Out of curiosity what make/size tyres does the IVECO run on?

 

Keith.

 

Michelin used to do this, but I understood that now whatever the axle weight, they advise 80 psi all round.

 

Our Carthago (C Tourer, 2015 model) has manufacturer’s suggested tyre pressures in the handbook, based on axle weights. After a visit to the weighbridge I set the tyres at 45 psi front and 60 psi rear in line with this, and it is comfortable. BUT I have a feeling that subsequent year’s handbooks don’t list suggested pressures, presumably for the same reason that Michelin, at least, now only give tyre pressures of 80 psi, where they used to give a more realistic figure. Protection of their back, inevitably?

 

The 80 psi ONLY applies to CP or Camping tyres and not generic 'white van' C tyres.

 

Also Paul's IVECO has a twin rear wheeled axle so pressures will be very different to a normal single wheel or tandem (aka Tag) axle chassis.

 

Keith.

[Derek Uzzell]

There’s no reason to think that Michelin would not be prepared to provide tyre-pressure recommendations based on measured axle-loadings provided that (as Keith has mentioned) the tyres involved are not CP-marked ‘camping-car’ tyres and the tyres are actually made by Michelin. (And even when the tyres are Michelin-made and CP-marked, Michelin will only state that 80psi should always be used for REAR tyres.)

 

Paul’s original Fiat Ducato-based Carthago “Liner for Two” motorhome had 225/75 R16 C Continental VancoFourSeason 2 tyres. So it’s quite possible that the tyres fitted to his current Iveco-based motorhome won’t be made by Michelin - and it’s probable that they will be ordinary C-marked ‘commercial vehicle’ tyres, not the CP-marked ‘camping-car’ variety.

 

If Paul’s Iveco Carthago has Continental tyres, there’s no real difficulty obtaining pressure-to-axle-load data as that information (including twinned-wheel rear-axle values) is available in the on-line Continental Technical Databook.

 

And even if the Carthago’s tyres are not made by Continental, the Continental data can be exploited to establish pressure-to-axle-load values as all tyres with the same specification and purpose (irrespective of their make) will have near-as-dammit the same pressure-to-axle-load figures.

 

............................................................................................................................................

 

Regarding Monique’s questions about the Carthago’s VB front-axle air suspension, Paul said (on the previous page)

 

Front V&B air suspension leaks. Chelston use Courtside Conversions of Tiverton and so far I'm not impressed as pretty much all their work on the old Fiat van and this one hasn't been good. E&P, TyrePal and V&B air all not fitted correctly.

 

A description of VB’s system for an Iveco Daily’s front axle can be found here

 

https://www.vbairsuspension.com/en/files/311.html

[aandy]

Derek Uzzell - 2019-06-08 8:11 AM

 

There’s no reason to think that Michelin would not be prepared to provide tyre-pressure recommendations based on measured axle-loadings provided that (as Keith has mentioned) the tyres involved are not CP-marked ‘camping-car’ tyres and the tyres are actually made by Michelin. (And even when the tyres are Michelin-made and CP-marked, Michelin will only state that 80psi should always be used for REAR tyres.)

 

l

 

I'm afraid there is. When I submitted a similar enquiry they gave pressures for CP rated tyres (80 on the rear) but declined to give any for C rated, advising that I should follow the vehicle manufacturer's recommendation. Not much help when that recommendation is based on fitting CPs. I set the pressures using the calculator on the Tyresafe website. A year and around 10,000 miles later there is no sign of uneven wear and no other indication of over/under inflation.

[flyboyprowler]

Regarding the Michelin tyre pressures on the Iveco chassis, I eventually got an answer from Michelins technical department that copies as follows

 

We have contacted our Technical Department regarding your query and received a following information about your case:

 

 

 

 

225/75 R 16 121 /120 R Agilis + can carry the plated axle loads of the vehicle (2900kg on the front axle and 5600kg on the rear axle) at its maximum pressure of 5.75 bar or 83psi.

 

At the above plated loads, the tyre would need a minimum of 5.6bar (81psi) at the front and 5.4 bar (78psi) at the rear.

 

However, with a front and rear load of 1800kg / 4000kg, minimum inflation pressure would be 3.4 bar (50psi) at the front and 3.9 bar (56psi) at the rear.

 

We normally advise an increase at the front of up to 10 % above the minimum pressure, to help understeer and improve directional stability under braking.

 

Please note that all of the pressure suggestions are for tyres, wheels and brakes at ambient temperature and must be set at the coolest part of the day to avoid under inflation.

 

It is in my opinion unlikely that Nitrogen inflation would make a difference to the normal increase in inflation pressure during use. With the correct tyre, loads and pressures, is acceptable for the tyre pressure to increase a little in normal service. The tyre is designed to be inflated with dry, compressed air.

 

Please note that at cold inflation pressures above 65psi, the wheel should be fitted with a high pressure valve, preferably the metal clamp in type.

 

 

 

From the above, I interpolated and run 4.7 bar on the front and 4.3 bar on the rear, and a running weight of around 6 tonnes, and the axle weights taken as loaded, the ride seems smoother. The manufactures recommendation for MAXIMUM pressures were considerably higher that these, but I suspect that, although "C" rated tyres are fitted, they are quoting for "CP" rated tyres, with higher pressures.

 

As an aside, Niesmann do not fit air suspension as standard, and also no long fit the VB or the EP systems. They are tied to Hymer and fit, as an option, Goldsmitt suspension and self levelling.

[Keithl]

Ainsley,

 

That sounds like a very good response from Michelin and exactly the info you wanted. Congrats to them for that.

 

Keith.

[flyboyprowler]

Keithl - 2019-06-08 12:12 PM

 

Ainsley,

 

That sounds like a very good response from Michelin and exactly the info you wanted. Congrats to them for that.

 

Keith.

 

Yes, the girl was eventually very helpful, but it was a bit of a struggle!

A

[aandy]

I must have caught them on a bad day. Or perhaps I should have been a bit more persistent.

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

Paul please be pertinent on details given. You have Some VB air on front and rear. And hydraulic foot leveling. E&P.VB,AL-KO is ONE CLUB. Only a EXPERT listed by them can fit it, and how they work together. And that is not easy on first trip. Derek came up whit semi air on the front for iveco. That should be refined. The front axle of the daily is very refined. All of these can be perfectly advised by VB- HQ

[flyboyprowler]

monique.hubrechts@gm - 2019-06-08 3:23 PM

 

Paul please be pertinent on details given. You have Some VB air on front and rear. And hydraulic foot leveling. E&P.VB,AL-KO is ONE CLUB. Only a EXPERT listed by them can fit it, and how they work together. And that is not easy on first trip. Derek came up whit semi air on the front for iveco. That should be refined. The front axle of the daily is very refined. All of these can be perfectly advised by VB- HQ

 

Monique, Pauls Liner 4 2 is on an Iveco Chassis, but I am not sure if Carthago fit E&P and VB air as standard

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

My dealer can fit hydraulic leveling on N+B - Iveco. But They are not doing air suspension at all. Once and for all time if you order a new motorhome buy these options new. And DO-Not a retrofit.

[flyboyprowler]

monique.hubrechts@gm - 2019-06-08 3:49 PM

 

My dealer can fit hydraulic leveling on N+B - Iveco. But They are not doing air suspension at all. Once and for all time if you order a new motorhome buy these options new. And DO-Not a retrofit.

 

Ours was retro fitted on our Niesmann, as they do no longer fit E&P and VB air, Goldsmitt are reputedly not as good. I have not had a problem as yet, it all works well.

[Derek Uzzell]

The background and some specification details of Paul’s Iveco-based Carthago are provided in his postings on this thread’s Page 4.

 

I don’t think Ainsley has ever stated which model of N+B Flair he obtained last year, but from his comments above it will have a length over 8 metres and (I believe) a gross weight of 7200kg; whereas Paul’s Carthago motorhome is shorter (under 8 metres) and significantly lighter (gross weight of 5600kg).

 

Nevertheless, if Paul’s Carthago has tyres with a similar specification to Ainsley’s Flair, as the Carthago’s axle loadings (maximum and real-world) ought to be less than those of the Flair, it may be practicable to reduce the Carthago’s front-tyre pressures well down from the 70psi Paul has mentioned. While a reduction from 70psi to 65psi can’t be expected to noticeably improve the present harsh ride Paul is complaining about, reducing the pressure to (say) 55psi should definitely help.

 

However, after the weight-related debacle with Paul’s Ducato-based Carthago, it would be plain common sense (as has been advised above) to have the Iveco Carthago weighed ‘in full touring trim’ to obtain its in-operation overall weight and axle loadings. Once those axle-loadings have been established, informed decisions can be taken about tyre pressures.

 

In Paul’s last posting he said

 

Front V&B air suspension leaks. Chelston use Courtside Conversions of Tiverton and so far I'm not impressed as pretty much all their work on the old Fiat van and this one hasn't been good. E&P, TyrePal and V&B air all not fitted correctly.

 

Plainly, if the retrofitted VB front air ‘kit’ has not been installed correctly and is leaking, that will need addressing before experimenting with tyre pressures. I believe the Iveco Daily’s front suspension uses torsion-bar springing and I’m not sure what the VB kit does about this - but in principle front air suspension OUGHT to be able to provide a comfortable ride and the VB system on Paul’s Carthago does have adjustable settings.

[TheEscapist]

Sadly the Liner for Two wont work out after all that wait. Driving is not for me as it's too harsh over bumps. Apparently that is normal for a van conversion and the wife's cancer means we can't sleep as too noisy. See separate new thread to contact Chelston if you're interested in buying it.

 

[bolero boy]

...does this mean NEITHER of the two Liners for Two 'will work'?.....

[Billggski]

Seems not, I've followed this post with an increasing sense of incredulity.

[Marcol]

I’ve just re read this whole thread and I’m stunned. Surely a decent test drive would have told you that the Iveco’s ride was harsh. With the kind of money involved , your research leaves a lot to be desired.

 

Don’t understand what you mean by it being too noisy for your wife to sleep. Have you ever been on a campsite before ?

 

I can imagine what some motorhome dealers would have done. Top marks to Chelston

[flyboyprowler]

TheEscapist - 2019-06-10 4:27 PM

 

Sadly the Liner for Two wont work out after all that wait. Driving is not for me as it's too harsh over bumps. Apparently that is normal for a van conversion and the wife's cancer means we can't sleep as too noisy. See separate new thread to contact Chelston if you're interested in buying it.

 

I am sorry that after all you have gone through, that you have decided to seemingly, give up on the Carthago. Our Niesmann, on a heavy (7.5 tonne) chassis drives, IMHO really well. The difference from our previous 4 tonne A class is so much more stability. I have full air, and having driven the Niesmann both with and without air fitted, the full air ride is more than acceptable. Does your wife need to sleep while you are travelling, and I don't mean to pry, or is the van too noisy when you are parked up? Your problems with Chelston seem to have left you with a serious communication problem that may lead to you giving up a dream, when, surely, it is worth persevering to get the result you want.

[globebuster]

I'm sorry, but I don't see the problem lies with Chelston at all.

 

In fact they appear to have done everything possible to resolve and placate a customer who perhaps didn't actually have a realistic plan and certainly didn't do enough research in the first place.

 

I say well done Chelston - and I genuinely hope they are not too out of pocket with all the work they appear to have undertaken.

 

 

[Billggski]

My guess is that they are actually well in pocket!

[aandy]

globebuster - 2019-06-12 8:50 PM

 

I'm sorry, but I don't see the problem lies with Chelston at all.

 

In fact they appear to have done everything possible to resolve and placate a customer who perhaps didn't actually have a realistic plan and certainly didn't do enough research in the first place.

 

I say well done Chelston - and I genuinely hope they are not too out of pocket with all the work they appear to have undertaken.

 

 

Agreed. Having followed the thread from the start, I've been left with a very good impression of Chelston.

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

That grey- blue house of chelston is in default about the options. Just money. First a liner for two who had weight problems. And than another one pumped up on Iveco whit options who nobody except me has a clue of it.

[Derek Uzzell]

It was peculiar that the Ducato-based Carthago Liner-for-Two that Paul originally ordered was (apparently ) so heavy that Chelston Motorhomes were prepared to accept this as a fault and offer a full refund.

 

There was no confusion about the specification of the already-built Iveco-based Carthago Liner-for-Two that Paul then agreed to purchase, or about the additions/modifications that were made to that motorhome after it had been delivered to Chelston Motorhomes.

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

Is That Harsh Drive motorhome now for sale? Whit Front and rear Vb suspension and one rear axle twin wheels to provide good traction. better than twin axle single wheels?

[flyboyprowler]

I am a little confused, not that it matters, but the Liner for 2 that is showing sold on the Chelston website, having Paul's personal plate on it seems to be the Fiat based van and not the Iveco that Paul apparently ordered and is not happy with.

My feeling is that Paul ordered just air on the front (part air) and original springs for the back, and this maybe the reason why he has an unpleasant ride.

Paul also seems to have gone quiet at the moment, and having watched the post, I would like to know how he is getting on.

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

Please take a break. And just relax about Paul. And forget suspension. He Missed two wonderfully carthago motorhomes. They are what they are. live is short enjoy it in brexit times. But buy a MATRAK- STICK to protect your rear bikes in calais. And when you to Croatia- balkan area. The last is very risky in case of a flat tyre. Regards to Paul and family and sorry that I interfered in a personal case buying a motorhome.