colin weston Posted April 26, 2021 Share Posted April 26, 2021 The answer is: with great difficulty. I had to go and look at my arrangement of clamping and it is the same as yours with plastic knobs on the bolt heads. I tried applying WD40 with little success. I finally proceeded as follows; As I have an ALko chassis I raised the vehicle on chocks, so that I could crawl underneath. Then, making sure that the vehicle was in gear with the handbrake on I crawled underneath and used a hacksaw to remove the part of the bolt protruding from the nut which was not the easiest job when in your late 70's. Its obviously important to make the cut as close to the nut as possible. I then got a pair of stilsons to grip the plastic wheel in the battery box with the handle of the stilson's jammed against a wooden block to spread the load. Then I got the wife to kneel down inside the van and hold the stilsons in place while I got a spanner on the nut underneath. I managed to turn the nut which of course turned the plate to which is attached as well. Having removed all the parts I then thoroughly cleaned the bolt and nut threads and removed possibly 1/8 inch from the end of the bolt so that it would no longer protrude from the nut when tightened. I don't know how they attached the "nut plate" to the bottom of the battery box at the factory but I think I just put some sealant on the face to prevent water ingress and then reassembled with grease on the threads and on the end of the bolt. I was careful not to overtighten on reassembly as, like you, I may need to undo them again. Let me know how you get on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiphop Posted May 1, 2021 Share Posted May 1, 2021 Hi to all who have helped so far. Yesterday a technician at a local garage put the motorhome up on a lift and cut off the rusted bolt nut and plate underneath the battery box. He then welded 10mm nuts to some square metal plates I had acquired in a local ironmongers. He then bonded the plates with nut attached to the bottom of the battery box using a silicone grip replicating the original set up. (Photos attached) I dropped stainless steel 10mm bolts through from inside the box connecting through the plate to the nut and tightened but not too tight. I have lost the use of the black plastic knobs but can easily remove the clamps now by using a 17mm socket on the bolt head. Now to the next stage. The batteries as mentioned before are 15 years old but still charging to 14.4 volts on the Autocruise 3 stage charger and working very well. I assume that both batteries will not fail at the same time so would like to know if one fails will the other still power my 12volt appliances until I can replace both batteries? Also can I change one battery at a time without losing all stored memory functions? So if I disconnect a failed leisure battery will the other connected good battery keep everything technical going whilst I connect the new battery. Thanks to all for advice and help whilst I gradually move to a total resolution. Royce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiphop Posted May 1, 2021 Share Posted May 1, 2021 Sorry hopefully photos now atfached Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted May 1, 2021 Share Posted May 1, 2021 Hiphop - 2021-05-01 10:50 PM Sorry hopefully photos now atfached Photos need to be less than 100 kb in size and also .jpg (not .jpeg) to show in your post. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 Hiphop - 2021-05-01 10:30 PM ...Now to the next stage. The batteries as mentioned before are 15 years old but still charging to 14.4 volts on the Autocruise 3 stage charger and working very well. I assume that both batteries will not fail at the same time so would like to know if one fails will the other still power my 12volt appliances until I can replace both batteries? Also can I change one battery at a time without losing all stored memory functions? So if I disconnect a failed leisure battery will the other connected good battery keep everything technical going whilst I connect the new battery... I don’t think the 14.4V figure you’ve mentioned is particularly relevant to the state-of-health of your batteries - it just shows that the battery-charger can output at 14.4 volts. If one of your two AGM batteries dies (and you can identify which battery is the corpse) it may be practicable to carefully disconnect it from its live twin and use the latter to provide 12V habitation power. As I’m sure you are aware pairing a new battery with either of your 15-years-old ones would be very bad practice - you really need to change both at the same time. Could you change both batteries without losing stored memory functions? I expect you could if you jury-rigged a feed from a battery (ie. temporarily added a parallel-connected 3rd battery) to maintain the stored data, connected up the two replacement batteries and then removed the ‘maintenance’ battery. (It’s the sort of ploy commonly employed if replacing a vehicle starter-battery when the radio has an unknown anti-theft code.) But I’m a bit surprised that there would be stored data for the habitation electrics that would be difficult to re-input if the present two AGM batteries were just removed. Couldn’t you just take a careful note of the current settings and re-input them after the batteries had been swapped? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiphop Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 I intended to replace both batteries at the same time but wanted to know that if camping off grid and one failed would the other provide enough power to let me continue camping for a few days before replacing both batteries? The other related issue was replacing them. If I have two new batteries ready and replace one at a time then will the connected battery keep things going whilst the other is replaced? Thanks Royce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 I'm doubtful how usable a system would be 'off grid' that comprised two parallel-connected batteries with one 'live' and the other 'dead'. Assuming that both of your AGM batteries were in working order, when you came to replace them, if the present cabling allows the habitation electrics to continue to be powered by one of the old batteries while you replaced the other and then you repeated that procedure with the other old battery, I guess that might be a practicable proposition. A photo showing how your two AGM batteries are cabled together would be a start... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiphop Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 Derek - hopefully herewith photos from inside the battery box and also the exit point. It looks like the batteries are wired separately. I am having problems getting the photo under 100 kb as advised by Keith above so any advice on how to do that would be welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 Lots of methods for getting images below the 100KB limit, but you’ve obviously managed to find a good way to do this. The arrangement in the battery-compartment looks very tidy and (as I understand it) each battery’s positive and negative cables enter the black box (shown in your 2nd photo) that’s on the outer side of the battery-compartment and near to the exhaust system’s heat-shield. The cables then leave the black box separately and go elsewhere. This is not the cabling arrangement I had expected, as the ’norm’ would be more like the 12V set-up shown on this webpage http://www.motts.org/second%20leisiure%20battery.htm Assuming that both batteries work together, somewhere further down the line there must be a means to parallel-connect them. But the way they are currently cabled might allow you to replace one battery and then the other and still retain the memory functions. The proof of the pudding... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiphop Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 Thanks Derek - yes I downloaded the photos from Google Photos onto the laptop and then used the editor to compress them, something I had never done before so I am learning more than changing leisure batteries from this exercise! I couldn't open your link on the normal battery set up but your assumption of my wires meeting up somewhere in parallel seems more than likely. I've looked at the control panel which has 12 devices shown and probably only time and date will be lost if 12 volt power is lost so I can easily reset that myself. I was more concerned though about the big box of tricks under the passenger seat which I guess from previous threads is the CPU for the whole set up. I was more worried about upsetting anything in that box that could not later be recovered. Thinking more about it my caravanner friends take their leisure batteries out for the winter to put on trickle charge and when they reconnect in Spring everything 12 volt seems to work OK but I dont know if caravans have the same box of tricks on board - I guess they must. I wonder if Colin Weston or anyone else with the Autocruise (pre Swift) set up has changed their leisure batteries and what they experienced. That would be helpful but if I dont get any replies I will go ahead and bite the bullet. Thank you for all your help Derek and I hope you noticed in the pictures above the new bolts and nice square plates which have replaced the black plastic knobs which had to be cut off. Not so easy to unscrew as hand knobs but they work. This was my first experience of joining a forum and I have been mightily impressed with the help available. Regards Royce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 I don’t have difficulty with the www.motts.org link I provided (and I usually check such links work as a matter of course when previewing an entry before posting it), but I’ve attached an image of the relevant chunk of Clive Mott’s webpage that shows a pair of 12V batteries parallel-connected together. I suppose the real differences is that the cabling would normally not involve the ‘black box’ that’s on the outside of your Starspirit’s battery-compartment. Regarding the “big box of tricks”, you are right to be concerned about this! It’s likely (probable) that your 2007 Starspirit has the "Autocruise Energy Management System” discussed in these two forum threads https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Lazy-control-panel/52225/ https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Autocruise-Starspirit-problem/56306/ The relative sophistication and complexity of the electrical systems factory-fitted to motorhomes/caravans can vary dramatically, and the more complex and less commonplace the system, the greater the difficulty there will be when it comes to trouble-shooting or providing advice when the system ages or is no longer manufactured. Apparently the “Energy Management System” was only factory-fitted to Autocruise, Bentey or Murvi motorhomes and - as you’ll see from the 2nd link above - gaining information about it nowadays is not easy and finding a repairer may prove very challenging. The 2nd link also includes links to the relevant Autocruise handbooks, so if you did lose control-panel data, you should be able to re-enter it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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