bigjohnthecat Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 Hi I could do with Boris Johnson here to cut all the political Who are I keep reading about this matter. ALL I want please is a definitive answer please. I know everyone keeps saying you will be subjected to lower speed limits ? But Please Please Pease what are these limits and conditions? No political Brexit answers please just give me it that’s all I ask. Thanks in anticipation John :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don636 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 Why on earth would Brexit figure in relation to this question and why do you think your question is likely to provoke a political discussion? I think the speed limits are reduced by 10mph for the 60 and 70 limits as your vehicle is classed as an HGV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 John, The 3,850 kg GVW figure is actually irrelevant in the UK. The weight you need to know (or calculate) is the UNLADEN weight. There is a definition on Gov.uk for this weight. Then if your UNLADEN weight is less than 3,050 kg (actually 3 imperial tons) you are subject to national speed limits. If over 3,050 kg then lower limits apply. See the Gov.uk website here... https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits Keith. Edit to add: Our AT is plated at 3,800 kg GVW but has a calculated UNLADEN weight of 2,960 kg so I adhere to national speed limits, not the reduced limits. Type of vehicle Built-up areas mph (km/h) Single carriageways mph (km/h) Dual carriageways mph (km/h) Motorways mph (km/h) Motorhomes or motor caravans (not more than 3.05 tonnes maximum unladen weight) 30 (48) 60 (96) 70 (112) 70 (112) Motorhomes or motor caravans (more than 3.05 tonnes maximum unladen weight) 30 (48) 50 (80) 60 (96) 70 (112) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 Might help ? https://www.ukmotorhomes.net/motorhome-faqs/speed-limits Although as written in the above is the magic term " unladen weight". Which seems to be based on intelligence guesswork at best to get a value for a Motorhome. And the ability to look at nearly identical models of Motorhome and guess their weights. Especially those that can be re-plated by issuing a manufacturer's certificate with no physical alteration to the running gear. needless to say once you cross the channel, unladen weight is not an issue, it does not exist as a term of reference. Rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don636 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 That’s interesting Keith, was not aware that it was the unladen weight that applied. I have never seen the unladen weight being quoted by manufacturers so that means you would need to weigh the van empty to check this and take into account what unladen actually meant I.e. fuel included? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don636 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 Just seen that Tony has provided a link that clarifies what unladen weight is so thanks for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 Here is a link to the VOSA description of weight ternms... https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-weights-explained Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 Remove all unfixed items from the van, fill the tank with fuel, and take to a weighbridge. Once you have the weighbridge ticket showing your van's reg No and its weight, multiply the fuel tank capacity by 0.85 and deduct the result from the weighbridge weight figure (diesel weighs approx 0.85kg/litre). That should give you, as nearly as practicable, the unladen weight of your van. If the weighbridge figure comes in below 3,050kg, you needn't bother to deduct the fuel weight, as there can be no doubt that with no fuel on board, (the legal definition of "unladen") the van would be even lighter. If over 3050kg when the weight of fuel is deducted, you will be subject to the lower, UK, speed limits. When/if outside the UK, as your van's MAM exceeds 3,500kg you will be subject to the over 3,500kg speed limit in whatever country you are in at the time. This limit varies from country to country, so you'll need to check to avoid trouble. I haven't had the experience of being stopped to check whether our van is over 3,500kg, so don't think that is a great risk (I think the police a) generally have enough to do elsewhere, and b) assume that motorhomes do not exceed 3,500kg - unless they are obviously larger than average). However, if you were pulled or caught on a "safety camera" exceeding the under 3,500kg speed limit, and it was then discovered that your MAM exceeded 3,500kg, I suspect they'd throw the book at you! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamRienza Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 I had my van replated at 3850 from 3500 a few months ago. I am not overly concerned about the actual permitted speed limits as we drive with a good margin of reserve speed on motorways and usually not more than 55mph on dual carriageways. Otherwise we adhere to the best of our ability to town and single carriageway limits. We are currently in France and am wondering what the criteria are for those multiple stickers of speed limits you see on the rear panel of some Motorhomes. When does display become mandatory? I will research it properly on return home but if anyone can give an answer it would be appreciated. Davy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pottypam Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-07-28 7:55 I haven't had the experience of being stopped to check whether our van is over 3,500kg, so don't think that is a great risk (I think the police a) generally have enough to do elsewhere, and b) assume that motorhomes do not exceed 3,500kg - unless they are obviously larger than average). However, if you were pulled or caught on a "safety camera" exceeding the under 3,500kg speed limit, and it was then discovered that your MAM exceeded 3,500kg, I suspect they'd throw the book at you! :-) We were stopped and weighed in France last year, a few miles from the Italian border., so it can happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 TeamRienza - 2019-07-28 9:46 PM ...We are currently in France and am wondering what the criteria are for those multiple stickers of speed limits you see on the rear panel of some Motorhomes. When does display become mandatory? I will research it properly on return home but if anyone can give an answer it would be appreciated. Davy A summary of French speed limits can be found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limits_in_France In France a ‘heavy’ motorhome (un camping-car poids lourd) is defined as having a maximum authorised mass that exceeds 3.5 tonnes (3500kg). As such, the vehicle is subject to some specific traffic rules, including speed limits on certain roads. How to identify those speeds? Just look at the road signs... When a speed limit indicator is positioned above a sign indicating a weight (3.5 t for example) it means that the limit applies to all vehicles (including motorhomes and goods vehicles) having a weight in excess of that shown on the sign. Conversely, when the sign carries a ‘lorry’ design, it is only goods vehicles that are affected by the limitation. ‘Heavy’ motorhomes are limited to a speed of - 110 km/h on motorways - 100 km/h on dual-carriageway roads - 80 km/h on ordinary two-lane roads - 50 km/h in built-up areas (even when a speed-limit sign allows ‘light’ vehicles to be driven at 70 km/h). (if a ‘heavy’ motorhome is towing a trailer, the 110, 100 and 80 km/h maxima respectively reduce to 90, 80 and 60.) Speed limit discs are marketed for ‘heavy’ motorhomes (example of advert here) https://www.camping-car-plus.com/equipement-exterieur/exterieur-cabine-cellule/disques-limitation-de-vitesse/kit-3-disques-limitation-vitesse-3742.html More on the following link if you want to practice your French https://campingcarsite.fr/campingcar-poids-lourds.html ................................................................................................................ Regarding UK speed limits and motorhomes, these three 2005 forum threads may be of interest https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/speed-limits/2523/ https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Speed-Limits/2544/ https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Speed-Limit-Update/2563/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamRienza Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 Thanks, Derek, for taking the time to answer my question so comprehensively. We have toured in a 3500 kg for about 10 years and feel very comfortable with driving in France and to a lesser extent in Spain and for our first visit to Portugal earlier this year. I do my best to comply with the laws, rules and etiquette of those countries we visit and had a crit air sticker as soon as they were introduced. However, driving about France (currently in Villenueve sur Lot) with our recently uprated to 3850 kg van I began to wonder about the stickers that one sees on the rear of very large Motorhomes and recall having a 60 sticker on the rear of my caravan many years ago. I don’t particularly want to ‘decorate’ the back of my van with 3 ugly stickers, so perhaps I will in this instance take a chance on it since to all intents my van looks like a typical 3500 kg and we tend to drive within the poid lourde limits anyway so unless we are weighed or the plate inspected we are unlikely to draw attention to ourselves. I will read up on Uk regs on our return. Always happy to practice my rusty 50 year old gce (failed twice) French, although curiously my ability to read it is satisfactory. It is when I open my mouth or try to listen the truth is out! Davy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjohnthecat Posted July 29, 2019 Author Share Posted July 29, 2019 Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 I’m not sure if the French requirement that a French-registered ‘heavy’ motorhome must carry the 3 speed limit indicators also applies to non-French-registered motorhomes. It’s a French national regulation and other EU countries don’t have it. I’ve seen big French motorhomes with the speed limit ‘ovals’ on their rear, but I’ve yet to see a ‘foreign’ motorhome with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyRiser Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 What about calculating the maximum unladen weight by subtracting the payload from the MTPLM? Or is that too simplistic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 This thread was 2019 vintage... The relationship in the UK between speed limits and vehicle weight has been discussed here twice in the last couple of months. https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Weights/58021/ https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Speed-limits/57749/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 BarleyRiser - 2021-05-04 9:50 AM What about calculating the maximum unladen weight by subtracting the payload from the MTPLM? Or is that too simplistic? For UK purposes only, if the result of the above calculation is 3,050kg or below, it will give a good indication that the actual unladen weight will be below 3,050kg. I'm a little concerned about "maximum unladen weight", though, because unladen weight, as defined in regulations, is a single definitive vehicle weight, obtained in a very specific load state, so is not subject to any upper or lower tolerances. I'm therefore wondering if we may be at cross-purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtravel Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 Don't forget that in Italy, regardless of weight, on motorways with more than two lanes, the third and fourth lanes are forbidden to vehicles longer than seven meters. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyRiser Posted May 5, 2021 Share Posted May 5, 2021 https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits The reason I used "maximum unladen weight" is because that is what is used in the above link. That's why I was asking as it doesn't mean a great deal to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonno1103 Posted May 25, 2021 Share Posted May 25, 2021 To muddy the waters further our V5 states two values. G: Mass in Service, defined as the weight of the vehicle as it leaves the coachbuilders factory which in our case is 2868kg and F.1: Max. permissible mass. Which again in our case is 3500kg. Speaking to many owners of European models, their V5 docs seem to be devoid of any information in the right hand column. You then need to sit down with a stiff drink and work out how many of manufacturers define their MAM, MTPLM, or Mass in Service as many differ considerably even for the 2021 model year never mind how they calculated it on the 10 year old pre loved van you have your eye on. As an example, a 2019 Rapido's MTPLM does not include the 75kg for the driver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted May 25, 2021 Share Posted May 25, 2021 BarleyRiser - 2021-05-05 5:00 PM https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits The reason I used "maximum unladen weight" is because that is what is used in the above link. That's why I was asking as it doesn't mean a great deal to me! Apologies Michael, I'd previously missed your post above. The definition of Unladen Weight on the Government website is as follows: "2 Unladen weight The unladen weight of any vehicle is the weight of the vehicle when it’s not carrying any passengers, goods or other items. It includes the body and all parts normally used with the vehicle or trailer when it’s used on a road. It doesn’t include the weight of: - fuel - batteries in an electric vehicle - unless it’s a mobility scooter or powered wheelchair." As you can see there is no scope for maximum or minimum weight in this definition: the vehicle should not even have fuel on board when weighed! The original, longhand, version of the definition is in the The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986, Part 1, Regulation 3.2, as follows: "The weight of a vehicle or trailer inclusive of the body and all parts (the heavier being taken where alternative bodies or parts are used) which are necessary to or ordinarily used with the vehicle or trailer when working on a road, but exclusive of the weight of water, fuel or accumulators used for the purpose of the supply of power for the propulsion of the vehicle or, as the case may be, of any vehicle by which the trailer is drawn, and of loose tools and loose equipment." Hope this, albeit belatedly, helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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