Violet1956 Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 I think you're right Antony. there is insufficent information in the public domain to condemn the man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 If he had extenuating circumstances don't you think by now he would have said so in mitigation? Sorry, but given how the rules are established to apply to everyone else as far I am concerned in this case, guilty until proven innocent. Stay home - protect the NHS - save lives. Seems pretty clear to me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 Tracker - 2020-04-11 4:57 PM If he had extenuating circumstances don't you think by now he would have said so in mitigation? Sorry, but given how the rules are established to apply to everyone else as far I am concerned in this case, guilty until proven innocent. Stay home - protect the NHS - save lives. Seems pretty clear to me? Sorry Rich but the principle that is one of the most important in our law is that you are innocent until proven guilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 Violet1956 - 2020-04-11 4:51 PM I think you're right Antony. there is insufficent information in the public domain to condemn the man. Thankyou Veronica ... Nice to agree for once Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 Tracker - 2020-04-11 4:57 PM If he had extenuating circumstances don't you think by now he would have said so in mitigation? Sorry, but given how the rules are established to apply to everyone else as far I am concerned in this case, guilty until proven innocent. Stay home - protect the NHS - save lives. Seems pretty clear to me? Why should he disclose private family matters , would you ??? ... It seems you have condemned him without knowing anything other than the headline Rich ... My missus goes everyday to see her Mum and sits in the car on her mothers drive and talks to her while her mum stands in the porch , she's on her own all day every day and its not just about dropping off medication and shopping its also about keeping the old lass sane with just a little company if at distance and just for a few short moments , would you condemn her for that ??? ... Im surprised at you jumping on this one , I thought you were a more reasoned kind of fella and thats not a personal attack just an observation on your comments on this subject thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 As an MP and particularly as a cabinet minister he should be more aware than most and leading by example. All too often we hear excuses posing as reasons why standards should not be maintained as the country continues on it's never ending spiral of dumbing down with excuses for some and fines for others. As I say, it is easy to fabricate excuses and he, and you, may think he is justified in his actions, but taking the wider view what message does it convey to the resty of the country. Sorry, but in this case I think that people in high profile jobs should be setting standards not manipulating them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 I agree, the rule/law makers should follow exemplary standards of observance. Otherwise, they create the impression of one law for us, another for you, which, especially at times such as this, when people are being asked, in the interests of all, to make personal sacrifices, can appear corrupt. A silly mistake that looks bad and, one would hope, sufficiently embarrassing that the lesson has been learned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 Tracker - 2020-04-11 5:50 PM As an MP and particularly as a cabinet minister he should be more aware than most and leading by example. All too often we hear excuses posing as reasons why standards should not be maintained as the country continues on it's never ending spiral of dumbing down with excuses for some and fines for others. As I say, it is easy to fabricate excuses and he, and you, may think he is justified in his actions, but taking the wider view what message does it convey to the resty of the country. Sorry, but in this case I think that people in high profile jobs should be setting standards not manipulating them. But without knowing his circumstances you have no idea what so ever if he is manipulating anything ... Doesnt common sense tell you that Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted April 11, 2020 Author Share Posted April 11, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-04-11 6:01 PM I agree, the rule/law makers should follow exemplary standards of observance. Otherwise, they create the impression of one law for us, another for you, which, especially at times such as this, when people are being asked, in the interests of all, to make personal sacrifices, can appear corrupt. A silly mistake that looks bad and, one would hope, sufficiently embarrassing that the lesson has been learned. It appears one thinks not, undoubtedly swayed by his political persuasion more than logical reasoning and i have no doubt if this was a shadow cabinet MP he'd be calling for their head on a plate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 Bulletguy - 2020-04-11 6:17 PM Brian Kirby - 2020-04-11 6:01 PM I agree, the rule/law makers should follow exemplary standards of observance. Otherwise, they create the impression of one law for us, another for you, which, especially at times such as this, when people are being asked, in the interests of all, to make personal sacrifices, can appear corrupt. A silly mistake that looks bad and, one would hope, sufficiently embarrassing that the lesson has been learned. It appears one thinks not, undoubtedly swayed by his political persuasion more than logical reasoning and i have no doubt if this was a shadow cabinet MP he'd be calling for their head on a plate! If for just a moment you can wipe your eyes clear of blind hatred vision of Tories and me you might take note of what I said earlier in the thread ... Hate on as usual ... Dont you ever get bored of being so bitter , seriously ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted April 11, 2020 Author Share Posted April 11, 2020 Birdbrain - 2020-04-11 6:23 PM Bulletguy - 2020-04-11 6:17 PM Brian Kirby - 2020-04-11 6:01 PM I agree, the rule/law makers should follow exemplary standards of observance. Otherwise, they create the impression of one law for us, another for you, which, especially at times such as this, when people are being asked, in the interests of all, to make personal sacrifices, can appear corrupt. A silly mistake that looks bad and, one would hope, sufficiently embarrassing that the lesson has been learned. It appears one thinks not, undoubtedly swayed by his political persuasion more than logical reasoning and i have no doubt if this was a shadow cabinet MP he'd be calling for their head on a plate! If for just a moment you can wipe your eyes clear of blind hatred vision of Tories and me you might take note of what I said earlier in the thread ... Hate on as usual ... Dont you ever get bored of being so bitter , seriously ??? No 'bitterness' and no 'hatred' from me Antony but your support for breaking rules as and when it suits is clear for all to see and imo there were some good Tory MP's.....but Johnson got rid of them on the orders of Director Cummings. It's long ceased being the Tory party since it got infiltrated by UKIP and Farages bunch who had nowhere to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 Birdbrain - 2020-04-11 6:05 PM Tracker - 2020-04-11 5:50 PM As an MP and particularly as a cabinet minister he should be more aware than most and leading by example. All too often we hear excuses posing as reasons why standards should not be maintained as the country continues on it's never ending spiral of dumbing down with excuses for some and fines for others. As I say, it is easy to fabricate excuses and he, and you, may think he is justified in his actions, but taking the wider view what message does it convey to the resty of the country. Sorry, but in this case I think that people in high profile jobs should be setting standards not manipulating them. But without knowing his circumstances you have no idea what so ever if he is manipulating anything ... Doesnt common sense tell you that Rich If common sense was required,he wouldn’t have made the trip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 Bulletguy - 2020-04-11 6:53 PM Birdbrain - 2020-04-11 6:23 PM Bulletguy - 2020-04-11 6:17 PM Brian Kirby - 2020-04-11 6:01 PM I agree, the rule/law makers should follow exemplary standards of observance. Otherwise, they create the impression of one law for us, another for you, which, especially at times such as this, when people are being asked, in the interests of all, to make personal sacrifices, can appear corrupt. A silly mistake that looks bad and, one would hope, sufficiently embarrassing that the lesson has been learned. It appears one thinks not, undoubtedly swayed by his political persuasion more than logical reasoning and i have no doubt if this was a shadow cabinet MP he'd be calling for their head on a plate! If for just a moment you can wipe your eyes clear of blind hatred vision of Tories and me you might take note of what I said earlier in the thread ... Hate on as usual ... Dont you ever get bored of being so bitter , seriously ??? No 'bitterness' and no 'hatred' from me Antony but your support for breaking rules as and when it suits is clear for all to see and imo there were some good Tory MP's.....but Johnson got rid of them on the orders of Director Cummings. It's long ceased being the Tory party since it got infiltrated by UKIP and Farages bunch who had nowhere to go. You are diverting from your original thread topic with your UKIP/Farage nonsense ... I ask again if you or anyone on here know this fellas circumstances with his parents ??? ... No one including you can answer up to press so I can only presume that you and the rest of those squad havent got a clue , therefore it stinks of Tory hatred doesnt it , unless you can prove otherwise ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 jumpstart - 2020-04-11 7:25 PM Birdbrain - 2020-04-11 6:05 PM Tracker - 2020-04-11 5:50 PM As an MP and particularly as a cabinet minister he should be more aware than most and leading by example. All too often we hear excuses posing as reasons why standards should not be maintained as the country continues on it's never ending spiral of dumbing down with excuses for some and fines for others. As I say, it is easy to fabricate excuses and he, and you, may think he is justified in his actions, but taking the wider view what message does it convey to the resty of the country. Sorry, but in this case I think that people in high profile jobs should be setting standards not manipulating them. But without knowing his circumstances you have no idea what so ever if he is manipulating anything ... Doesnt common sense tell you that Rich If common sense was required,he wouldn’t have made the trip. Why ??? ... Your the fella that went out for a walk for hours and hours the other day aren't ya ??? ... This fella stayed in his car while you risked for 5 or 6 hours bumping to anyone and everyone ... Me thinks you aint the fella to be talking about "common sense" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted April 11, 2020 Author Share Posted April 11, 2020 Birdbrain - 2020-04-11 7:26 PM Bulletguy - 2020-04-11 6:53 PM Birdbrain - 2020-04-11 6:23 PM Bulletguy - 2020-04-11 6:17 PM Brian Kirby - 2020-04-11 6:01 PM I agree, the rule/law makers should follow exemplary standards of observance. Otherwise, they create the impression of one law for us, another for you, which, especially at times such as this, when people are being asked, in the interests of all, to make personal sacrifices, can appear corrupt. A silly mistake that looks bad and, one would hope, sufficiently embarrassing that the lesson has been learned. It appears one thinks not, undoubtedly swayed by his political persuasion more than logical reasoning and i have no doubt if this was a shadow cabinet MP he'd be calling for their head on a plate! If for just a moment you can wipe your eyes clear of blind hatred vision of Tories and me you might take note of what I said earlier in the thread ... Hate on as usual ... Dont you ever get bored of being so bitter , seriously ??? No 'bitterness' and no 'hatred' from me Antony but your support for breaking rules as and when it suits is clear for all to see and imo there were some good Tory MP's.....but Johnson got rid of them on the orders of Director Cummings. It's long ceased being the Tory party since it got infiltrated by UKIP and Farages bunch who had nowhere to go. You are diverting from your original thread topic with your UKIP/Farage nonsense ... Purely addressing your nonsense about 'blind hate of Tories'. There were some good ones....once. I ask again if you or anyone on here know this fellas circumstances with his parents ??? ... Yes he lives and works 200 miles away from his parents, and neighbours of his parents had "regularly dropped off supplies during lockdown". Also turns out his manor house in Herefordshire is a holiday home and the Jenwicks are 'rarely there'. I've already covered both grocery and medical deliveries for elderly and vulnerable in a number of previous posts so your attempt at looking for excuses is void. There are no excuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 Bulletguy - 2020-04-11 8:03 PM Birdbrain - 2020-04-11 7:26 PM Bulletguy - 2020-04-11 6:53 PM Birdbrain - 2020-04-11 6:23 PM Bulletguy - 2020-04-11 6:17 PM Brian Kirby - 2020-04-11 6:01 PM I agree, the rule/law makers should follow exemplary standards of observance. Otherwise, they create the impression of one law for us, another for you, which, especially at times such as this, when people are being asked, in the interests of all, to make personal sacrifices, can appear corrupt. A silly mistake that looks bad and, one would hope, sufficiently embarrassing that the lesson has been learned. It appears one thinks not, undoubtedly swayed by his political persuasion more than logical reasoning and i have no doubt if this was a shadow cabinet MP he'd be calling for their head on a plate! If for just a moment you can wipe your eyes clear of blind hatred vision of Tories and me you might take note of what I said earlier in the thread ... Hate on as usual ... Dont you ever get bored of being so bitter , seriously ??? No 'bitterness' and no 'hatred' from me Antony but your support for breaking rules as and when it suits is clear for all to see and imo there were some good Tory MP's.....but Johnson got rid of them on the orders of Director Cummings. It's long ceased being the Tory party since it got infiltrated by UKIP and Farages bunch who had nowhere to go. You are diverting from your original thread topic with your UKIP/Farage nonsense ... Purely addressing your nonsense about 'blind hate of Tories'. There were some good ones....once. I ask again if you or anyone on here know this fellas circumstances with his parents ??? ... Yes he lives and works 200 miles away from his parents, and neighbours of his parents had "regularly dropped off supplies during lockdown". Also turns out his manor house in Herefordshire is a holiday home and the Jenwicks are 'rarely there'. I've already covered both grocery and medical deliveries for elderly and vulnerable in a number of previous posts so your attempt at looking for excuses is void. There are no excuses. You mention excuses twice ... No one is looking for excuses just a balanced view which given your Tory hatred background will prove difficult ... You have "covered" nothing with regards to his parents medical conditions which is what I asked for , 3 times now I believe ??? ... Can you provide any info on that or are we just going to go on and on and on with your deflection ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 I'm not a Tory hater, I just try to take a balanced view and that balance comes down very firmly against anyone of any rank or party that tries to apply double standards for personal advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted April 11, 2020 Author Share Posted April 11, 2020 Birdbrain - 2020-04-11 8:12 PM Bulletguy - 2020-04-11 8:03 PM Yes he lives and works 200 miles away from his parents, and neighbours of his parents had "regularly dropped off supplies during lockdown". Also turns out his manor house in Herefordshire is a holiday home and the Jenwicks are 'rarely there'. I've already covered both grocery and medical deliveries for elderly and vulnerable in a number of previous posts so your attempt at looking for excuses is void. There are no excuses. 1)You mention excuses twice ... No one is looking for excuses just a balanced view which given your Tory hatred background will prove difficult ... 2)You have "covered" nothing with regards to his parents medical conditions which is what I asked for , 3 times now I believe ??? ... Can you provide any info on that or are we just going to go on and on and on with your deflection ??? 1) Because thats what you appear to be doing by persistently excusing Jenwick disregarding government guidelines therefore i don't believe for a minute you want a 'balanced view' at all, just one that excuses his actions. 2) You're desperately clutching at straws with this now. Have you never heard of patient confidentiality? Obviously not so i suggest you phone his parents GP and demand their full medical report. Clown. *-) PMSL....also just noticed you've now changed your terminology from "circumstances" to "medical conditions". (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 Tracker - 2020-04-11 8:22 PM I'm not a Tory hater, I just try to take a balanced view and that balance comes down very firmly against anyone of any rank or party that tries to apply double standards for personal advantage. Never said you were a Tory hater Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 Bulletguy - 2020-04-11 8:23 PM Birdbrain - 2020-04-11 8:12 PM Bulletguy - 2020-04-11 8:03 PM Yes he lives and works 200 miles away from his parents, and neighbours of his parents had "regularly dropped off supplies during lockdown". Also turns out his manor house in Herefordshire is a holiday home and the Jenwicks are 'rarely there'. I've already covered both grocery and medical deliveries for elderly and vulnerable in a number of previous posts so your attempt at looking for excuses is void. There are no excuses. 1)You mention excuses twice ... No one is looking for excuses just a balanced view which given your Tory hatred background will prove difficult ... 2)You have "covered" nothing with regards to his parents medical conditions which is what I asked for , 3 times now I believe ??? ... Can you provide any info on that or are we just going to go on and on and on with your deflection ??? 1) Because thats what you appear to be doing by persistently excusing Jenwick disregarding government guidelines therefore i don't believe for a minute you want a 'balanced view' at all, just one that excuses his actions. 2) You're desperately clutching at straws with this now. Have you never heard of patient confidentiality? Obviously not so i suggest you phone his parents GP and demand their full medical report. Clown. *-) So if ones parents medical conditions are confidential I take it we can agree neither you nor I will know just how serious his medical drop off was will we ??? ... No need to resort to name calling either ... Your "clown" insult shows only that once again you seem to be losing the debate ... No name calling please ... What does PMSL mean ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 Birdbrain - 2020-04-11 8:27 PM Tracker - 2020-04-11 8:22 PM I'm not a Tory hater, I just try to take a balanced view and that balance comes down very firmly against anyone of any rank or party that tries to apply double standards for personal advantage. Never said you were a Tory hater Rich I never said you did - just suggesting that we should all perhaps not use that as an insult or as excuse to support our own view. Remember, no insults, just debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 Tracker - 2020-04-11 8:34 PM Birdbrain - 2020-04-11 8:27 PM Tracker - 2020-04-11 8:22 PM I'm not a Tory hater, I just try to take a balanced view and that balance comes down very firmly against anyone of any rank or party that tries to apply double standards for personal advantage. Never said you were a Tory hater Rich I never said you did - just suggesting that we should all perhaps not use that as an insult or as excuse to support our own view. Remember, no insults, just debate. its only an insult if not true Rich and in the case of the person I was replying to its definitely true ... Can anyone seriously on here stand up for him and say otherwise ??? ... My view by the way isnt based on party lines as I have already said just circumstances and the medical needs of his parents which nobody seems to be able to answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 Birdbrain - 2020-04-11 7:28 PM jumpstart - 2020-04-11 7:25 PM Birdbrain - 2020-04-11 6:05 PM Tracker - 2020-04-11 5:50 PM As an MP and particularly as a cabinet minister he should be more aware than most and leading by example. All too often we hear excuses posing as reasons why standards should not be maintained as the country continues on it's never ending spiral of dumbing down with excuses for some and fines for others. As I say, it is easy to fabricate excuses and he, and you, may think he is justified in his actions, but taking the wider view what message does it convey to the resty of the country. Sorry, but in this case I think that people in high profile jobs should be setting standards not manipulating them. But without knowing his circumstances you have no idea what so ever if he is manipulating anything ... Doesnt common sense tell you that Rich If common sense was required,he wouldn’t have made the trip. Why ??? ... Your the fella that went out for a walk for hours and hours the other day aren't ya ??? ... This fella stayed in his car while you risked for 5 or 6 hours bumping to anyone and everyone ... Me thinks you aint the fella to be talking about "common sense" I go walking every day,and we are allowed to. A government minister making a 120+ mile trip to his second home and see his parents. What a fine example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted April 11, 2020 Author Share Posted April 11, 2020 Birdbrain - 2020-04-11 8:30 PM Bulletguy - 2020-04-11 8:23 PM Birdbrain - 2020-04-11 8:12 PM Bulletguy - 2020-04-11 8:03 PM Yes he lives and works 200 miles away from his parents, and neighbours of his parents had "regularly dropped off supplies during lockdown". Also turns out his manor house in Herefordshire is a holiday home and the Jenwicks are 'rarely there'. I've already covered both grocery and medical deliveries for elderly and vulnerable in a number of previous posts so your attempt at looking for excuses is void. There are no excuses. 1)You mention excuses twice ... No one is looking for excuses just a balanced view which given your Tory hatred background will prove difficult ... 2)You have "covered" nothing with regards to his parents medical conditions which is what I asked for , 3 times now I believe ??? ... Can you provide any info on that or are we just going to go on and on and on with your deflection ??? 1) Because thats what you appear to be doing by persistently excusing Jenwick disregarding government guidelines therefore i don't believe for a minute you want a 'balanced view' at all, just one that excuses his actions. 2) You're desperately clutching at straws with this now. Have you never heard of patient confidentiality? Obviously not so i suggest you phone his parents GP and demand their full medical report. Clown. *-) So if ones parents medical conditions are confidential..... First you called them "circumstances" but in the last post changed that to "medical conditions" in the full knowledge the latter is patient/doctor confidentiality. Your attempts to excuse or justify Jenwicks actions have gone from pathetic to madcap insane and as usual you're just arguing for arguments sake. I've already explained in crystal clear terms plus links, how meds are being delivered to elderly and/or vulnerable people via U3A, local council volunteers, the NHS in some areas, and Pharmacy2u which comes by mail every month. NOBODY, and i mean absolutely NOBODY needs anyone from 200 miles away to deliver meds. Thats a lame excuse which won't work so you need to come up with something better. Have another go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 jumpstart - 2020-04-11 9:01 PM Birdbrain - 2020-04-11 7:28 PM jumpstart - 2020-04-11 7:25 PM Birdbrain - 2020-04-11 6:05 PM Tracker - 2020-04-11 5:50 PM As an MP and particularly as a cabinet minister he should be more aware than most and leading by example. All too often we hear excuses posing as reasons why standards should not be maintained as the country continues on it's never ending spiral of dumbing down with excuses for some and fines for others. As I say, it is easy to fabricate excuses and he, and you, may think he is justified in his actions, but taking the wider view what message does it convey to the resty of the country. Sorry, but in this case I think that people in high profile jobs should be setting standards not manipulating them. But without knowing his circumstances you have no idea what so ever if he is manipulating anything ... Doesnt common sense tell you that Rich If common sense was required,he wouldn’t have made the trip. Why ??? ... Your the fella that went out for a walk for hours and hours the other day aren't ya ??? ... This fella stayed in his car while you risked for 5 or 6 hours bumping to anyone and everyone ... Me thinks you aint the fella to be talking about "common sense" I go walking every day,and we are allowed to. A government minister making a 120+ mile trip to his second home and see his parents. What a fine example. Walking near your home , not on a hike that takes half the day while risking bumping into others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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