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John52

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FunsterJohn - 2020-04-26 9:59 PM

 

You're being very silly now.....why would i need to prove something i've never claimed?

 

Now.....for the THIRD and final time, if Cummings was merely just 'an observer' as you claim, then what was he doing taking an 'active role' at those meetings as reported by the two attendees? I await your response with interest.

 

Because sometimes committees invite observers to give advice. Because the government can form a committee of medical experts and that's called 'the committee'. Sometimes the government will ask the committee to allow other observers and interested parties to be present and these interested parties may be different at every committee meeting. Sometimes the medical experts on such a committee will wish to have other parties in order to question them on matters political. These observers and others aren't 'on' the committee. I'm not surprised though that this distinction is beyond you. You're the expert who claimed that Jacob Rees Mogg operated a hedge fund and that he'd moved his operations to Ireland.

 

As the PM's adviser why shouldn't Cummings ask questions and answer questions? The distinguished epidemiologist Prof Ferguson clearly stated that the committee had ''A number of observers who did not interfere with business at all.

 

No government 'spin doctor' was 'on' this committee. Most people are intelligent enough to know what being 'on' a committee means.

 

I'm glad though that John52 now appears to be backpedalling on his lie and that you yourself admit that Cummings isn't a member of the committee. Well, you're denying that you ever said it anyway.

 

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FunsterJohn - 2020-04-26 8:41 PM

 

John52 - 2020-04-26 9:19 PM

 

FunsterJohn - 2020-04-26 8:15 PM

 

John52 - 2020-04-26 8:47 PM

 

FunsterJohn - 2020-04-26 7:35 PM

 

 

So no evidence then that Cummins is actually a member of the committee?

Have you any evidence then that anyone said Cummings was 'actually a member of the committee' *-)

There is an obvious difference between 'on the committee' (unofficial) and a 'member of the committee' (official) - which I suspect you realise which is why you set up your straw man by changing what I said

 

Yes, you said it higher up this thread. Stop squirming, you're embarrassing yourself.

 

Quote it then

 

I already have. Stop being so pathetically childish. You're still embarrassing yourself. You did what you often do, lied and hoped no one would notice. You were found out. Now get over it and grow up.

 

If what you say was true, all you would need to do is press the quote button, instead of all your silly bluff and bluster.

 

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John52 - 2020-04-25 8:41 AM

 

Well that would have been better than relying on BoJo's spin doctor's advice who is on the advisory panel. Because the scientific advice was to isolate as soon as possible, not to dither about for a couple of months till the virus got a hold.

 

There's your quote and a little later you confirmed that we're discussing Cummings.

 

Cummings is not 'on' the advisory panel. You lied. Stop embarrassing yourself. All that you're proving is that your memory's failing.

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FunsterJohn - 2020-04-26 9:00 PM

 

FunsterJohn - 2020-04-26 9:59 PM

 

You're being very silly now.....why would i need to prove something i've never claimed?

 

Now.....for the THIRD and final time, if Cummings was merely just 'an observer' as you claim, then what was he doing taking an 'active role' at those meetings as reported by the two attendees? I await your response with interest.

 

Because sometimes committees invite observers to give advice.

It's ok, you can say it even though it's been like pulling teeth to get it out of you.....Cummings was taking an active role so was much more than just 'an observer' as you persistently claimed. One attendee said he felt Cummings’ interventions had sometimes inappropriately influenced what is supposed to be an impartial scientific process and the other said the group was to provide “unadulterated scientific data” without any political input.

 

Observing is one thing....taking an active role is quite another and can obviously influence what is supposed to be an impartial process.

 

you yourself admit that Cummings isn't a member of the committee. Well, you're denying that you ever said it anyway.

Yes i denied saying he was so why would i 'admit' to something i'd never said? You set yourself up as some kind of barrack room lawyer demanding 'proof', only to end up making a complete fool of yourself.

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Bulletguy - 2020-04-26 10:37 PM

 

FunsterJohn - 2020-04-26 9:00 PM

 

FunsterJohn - 2020-04-26 9:59 PM

 

You're being very silly now.....why would i need to prove something i've never claimed?

 

Now.....for the THIRD and final time, if Cummings was merely just 'an observer' as you claim, then what was he doing taking an 'active role' at those meetings as reported by the two attendees? I await your response with interest.

 

Because sometimes committees invite observers to give advice.

It's ok, you can say it even though it's been like pulling teeth to get it out of you.....Cummings was taking an active role so was much more than just 'an observer' as you persistently claimed. One attendee said he felt Cummings’ interventions had sometimes inappropriately influenced what is supposed to be an impartial scientific process and the other said the group was to provide “unadulterated scientific data” without any political input.

 

Observing is one thing....taking an active role is quite another and can obviously influence what is supposed to be an impartial process.

 

you yourself admit that Cummings isn't a member of the committee. Well, you're denying that you ever said it anyway.

Yes i denied saying he was so why would i 'admit' to something i'd never said? You set yourself up as some kind of barrack room lawyer demanding 'proof', only to end up making a complete fool of yourself.

 

You've been claiming all along that Cummings must have an active role on the committee. That would make him a member of it. Doh! He isn't a member of it. He's a liaison between the committee and the PM. The penny may drop eventually. Are the others who contribute occasionally as visitors also members of the committee? You probably think they are.

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FunsterJohn - 2020-04-26 9:56 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2020-04-26 10:37 PM

 

FunsterJohn - 2020-04-26 9:00 PM

 

FunsterJohn - 2020-04-26 9:59 PM

 

You're being very silly now.....why would i need to prove something i've never claimed?

 

Now.....for the THIRD and final time, if Cummings was merely just 'an observer' as you claim, then what was he doing taking an 'active role' at those meetings as reported by the two attendees? I await your response with interest.

 

Because sometimes committees invite observers to give advice.

It's ok, you can say it even though it's been like pulling teeth to get it out of you.....Cummings was taking an active role so was much more than just 'an observer' as you persistently claimed. One attendee said he felt Cummings’ interventions had sometimes inappropriately influenced what is supposed to be an impartial scientific process and the other said the group was to provide “unadulterated scientific data” without any political input.

 

Observing is one thing....taking an active role is quite another and can obviously influence what is supposed to be an impartial process.

 

you yourself admit that Cummings isn't a member of the committee. Well, you're denying that you ever said it anyway.

Yes i denied saying he was so why would i 'admit' to something i'd never said? You set yourself up as some kind of barrack room lawyer demanding 'proof', only to end up making a complete fool of yourself.

 

You've been claiming all along that Cummings must have an active role on the committee. That would make him a member of it. DOH!

No i never said "Cummings must have an active role on the committee" at all. I said; If Cummings was merely just 'an observer' as you claim, then what was he doing taking an 'active role' at those meetings?

 

Nothing about being ON the committee.....nothing about being 'a member' of. What you've confused is the part i pasted from the article which i clearly defined in italics. Let me know when your penny drops.

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FunsterJohn - 2020-04-26 9:22 PM

 

John52 - 2020-04-25 8:41 AM

 

Well that would have been better than relying on BoJo's spin doctor's advice who is on the advisory panel. Because the scientific advice was to isolate as soon as possible, not to dither about for a couple of months till the virus got a hold.

 

There's your quote and a little later you confirmed that we're discussing Cummings.

 

Cummings is not 'on' the advisory panel. You lied. Stop embarrassing yourself. All that you're proving is that your memory's failing.

 

I said 'on the advisory panel'

That is not what you claimed I said is it

Why did you change what I said?

How can we believe anything you say when you obviously change it to suit yourself?

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Guest pelmetman

I hope Boris gives Cummings a knighthood :D ..........

 

The Losers on here will prolly explode (lol) (lol) (lol) ........

 

 

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John52 - 2020-04-27 7:07 AM

 

FunsterJohn - 2020-04-26 9:22 PM

 

John52 - 2020-04-25 8:41 AM

 

Well that would have been better than relying on BoJo's spin doctor's advice who is on the advisory panel. Because the scientific advice was to isolate as soon as possible, not to dither about for a couple of months till the virus got a hold.

 

There's your quote and a little later you confirmed that we're discussing Cummings.

 

Cummings is not 'on' the advisory panel. You lied. Stop embarrassing yourself. All that you're proving is that your memory's failing.

 

I said 'on the advisory panel'

That is not what you claimed I said is it

Why did you change what I said?

How can we believe anything you say when you obviously change it to suit yourself?

 

Ha ha! Squirm, squirm and squirm again!

 

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John52 - 2020-04-26 8:14 PM

 

Birdbrain - 2020-04-26 7:00 PM

 

Jeez ... Imagine having such an empty , isolated life

 

Don't know who you are talking about.

But, Seriously, this is the worst crisis I have seen in my life.

So of course I care, and am very worried about it.

Now the Government has missed the chance to avoid it by testing and quarantine at the borders they have 'taken back control' of, and then maximised the damage by waiting till it got established before sourcing the equipment or starting the lockdown, I can't see a way out of it.

Can you?

 

Yeah you are really worried about it - You were bumming around the UK in your van until last weekend.

Hardly following advice were you - potentially spreading or contracting the virus.

You are a prize hypocrite John 52, let's hope you really are at home now - although somehow I doubt it.

 

Still I'm sure your hat is still coming in handy wherever you are.

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globebuster - 2020-04-27 9:17 PM

 

John52 - 2020-04-26 8:14 PM

 

Birdbrain - 2020-04-26 7:00 PM

 

Jeez ... Imagine having such an empty , isolated life

 

Don't know who you are talking about.

But, Seriously, this is the worst crisis I have seen in my life.

So of course I care, and am very worried about it.

Now the Government has missed the chance to avoid it by testing and quarantine at the borders they have 'taken back control' of, and then maximised the damage by waiting till it got established before sourcing the equipment or starting the lockdown, I can't see a way out of it.

Can you?

 

Yeah you are really worried about it - You were bumming around the UK in your van until last weekend.

Hardly following advice were you - potentially spreading or contracting the virus.

You are a prize hypocrite John 52, let's hope you really are at home now - although somehow I doubt it.

 

Still I'm sure your hat is still coming in handy wherever you are.

 

Self isolating in my (motor)Home, so a risk to no-one.

(unless they threaten to damage my motorhome - people living in glass houses etc )

You are a classic sucker for BoJo's Divide and Rule spin machine -

ignoring all his failings and getting the people blaming each other.

- or are you just a selfish Nimby wanting to steal the public areas of Our Devon & Cornwall for yourself?

even though the main hospital is 'Quiet' and there is 700 miles of empty coastline for people to self isolate in better than they can in the cities.

You need to understand that public areas are for everyone, not just you.

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John52 - 2020-04-28 8:32 AM

 

globebuster - 2020-04-27 9:17 PM

 

John52 - 2020-04-26 8:14 PM

 

Birdbrain - 2020-04-26 7:00 PM

 

Jeez ... Imagine having such an empty , isolated life

 

Don't know who you are talking about.

But, Seriously, this is the worst crisis I have seen in my life.

So of course I care, and am very worried about it.

Now the Government has missed the chance to avoid it by testing and quarantine at the borders they have 'taken back control' of, and then maximised the damage by waiting till it got established before sourcing the equipment or starting the lockdown, I can't see a way out of it.

Can you?

 

Yeah you are really worried about it - You were bumming around the UK in your van until last weekend.

Hardly following advice were you - potentially spreading or contracting the virus.

You are a prize hypocrite John 52, let's hope you really are at home now - although somehow I doubt it.

 

Still I'm sure your hat is still coming in handy wherever you are.

 

Self isolating in my (motor)Home, so a risk to no-one.

(unless they threaten to damage my motorhome - people living in glass houses etc )

You are a classic sucker for BoJo's Divide and Rule spin machine -

ignoring all his failings and getting the people blaming each other.

- or are you just a selfish Nimby wanting to steal the public areas of Our Devon & Cornwall for yourself?

even though the main hospital is 'Quiet' and there is 700 miles of empty coastline for people to self isolate in better than they can in the cities.

You need to understand that public areas are for everyone, not just you.

 

Thankfully not everyone with a motorhome or caravan thinks like you or Devon and Cornwalls main hospital might not be so quiet

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Birdbrain - 2020-04-28 9:06 AM

Thankfully not everyone with a motorhome or caravan thinks like you or Devon and Cornwalls main hospital might not be so quiet

 

Well at least the hospitals in other areas wouldn't be so busy - especially if people left the crowded areas and went to the empty areas of Devon & Cornwall where they can self isolate - so Treliske Hospital remains quiet.

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John52 - 2020-04-28 9:21 AM

 

Birdbrain - 2020-04-28 9:06 AM

Thankfully not everyone with a motorhome or caravan thinks like you or Devon and Cornwalls main hospital might not be so quiet

 

Well at least the hospitals in other areas wouldn't be so busy - especially if people left the crowded areas and went to the empty areas of Devon & Cornwall where they can self isolate - so Treliske Hospital remains quiet.

 

Where would all those folk get water or more importantly get rid of their human waste

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Birdbrain - 2020-04-28 9:25 AM

 

John52 - 2020-04-28 9:21 AM

 

Birdbrain - 2020-04-28 9:06 AM

Thankfully not everyone with a motorhome or caravan thinks like you or Devon and Cornwalls main hospital might not be so quiet

 

Well at least the hospitals in other areas wouldn't be so busy - especially if people left the crowded areas and went to the empty areas of Devon & Cornwall where they can self isolate - so Treliske Hospital remains quiet.

 

Where would all those folk get water or more importantly get rid of their human waste

 

They could get water from public taps, filling stations etc, and if the Council has closed the public facilities get rid of human waste the same way the locals get rid of their dog waste. If you weren't so desperate to find something to criticise, you would be more concerned about how the growing number of homeless living on the streets are getting rid of human waste now the public facilities are closed,. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/apr/27/london-coronavirus-sacked-hospitality-workers-sleeping-rough

By closing public facilities, Councils have evaded responsibility for keeping them safe, but they have created a far bigger problem elsewhere. Putting up notices telling people not to foul the pavements without giving them an alternative, is a poor substitute for the free public toilets they used to provide.

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John52 - 2020-04-28 9:35 AM

 

They could get water from public taps, filling stations etc, and if the Council has closed the public facilities get rid of human waste the same way the locals get rid of their dog waste. If you weren't so desperate to find something to criticise, you would be more concerned about how the growing number of homeless living on the streets are getting rid of human waste now the public facilities are closed,. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/apr/27/london-coronavirus-sacked-hospitality-workers-sleeping-rough

By closing public facilities, Councils have evaded responsibility for keeping them safe, but they have created a far bigger problem elsewhere.

 

But this is not about people who are without a home and are therefore in dire need of basic facilities.

That is a very valid but a very different discussion.

 

What people have an issue with, is the people who do have a home and who despite that, CHOOSE to leave it in order to travel, in some cases many many miles, to areas that they know will have minimal, if any, facilities when they get there...

What if everyone with a MH, campervan, caravan,stealth-camper or tent, just decided to head off to somewhere "nicer", claiming it was to "isolate" ? Only for them all to end up *"roughing-it" and scratting around for sourcing drinking taps, toilets, bins etc

(*I'm being diplomatic with the "roughing-it" phrase)?

The old "...what if everyone did it..?.." springs to mind.

 

..and please lets not trot out the go-to ""nimby" label or pretend that these folk all live in crammed squalid bedsits etc, and therefore have a need to escape..

 

I am no fan of the way this government has has handled this crisis,it's been too slow to act and too ill-defined with its advice and I get the blame-shifting thing but this "lockdown", as ill defined as it has been, should apply to everyone.

 

(What I want more than anything is to be able to see, and hold my children and young grandchildren (one of which is 6 weeks old) and I dare say that every parent/grandparent feels the same...but the vast majority have followed the rules/guidelines, and have not visited anyone else's home).

Should we all just think sod it ? (presumably because the PM went to the 1000 acre plus Chequers estate? or because Prince Charles travelled to a different palace/castle to recuperate? ) No.

(is that "fair"? no...but life isn't fair, it is what it is).

 

For those that think that this stay put rule doesn't apply to them- What makes them so "special"?.. :-S

 

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John52 - 2020-04-28 8:32 AM

 

globebuster - 2020-04-27 9:17 PM

 

John52 - 2020-04-26 8:14 PM

 

Birdbrain - 2020-04-26 7:00 PM

 

Jeez ... Imagine having such an empty , isolated life

 

Don't know who you are talking about.

But, Seriously, this is the worst crisis I have seen in my life.

So of course I care, and am very worried about it.

Now the Government has missed the chance to avoid it by testing and quarantine at the borders they have 'taken back control' of, and then maximised the damage by waiting till it got established before sourcing the equipment or starting the lockdown, I can't see a way out of it.

Can you?

 

Yeah you are really worried about it - You were bumming around the UK in your van until last weekend.

Hardly following advice were you - potentially spreading or contracting the virus.

You are a prize hypocrite John 52, let's hope you really are at home now - although somehow I doubt it.

 

Still I'm sure your hat is still coming in handy wherever you are.

 

Self isolating in my (motor)Home, so a risk to no-one.

(unless they threaten to damage my motorhome - people living in glass houses etc )

You are a classic sucker for BoJo's Divide and Rule spin machine -

ignoring all his failings and getting the people blaming each other.

- or are you just a selfish Nimby wanting to steal the public areas of Our Devon & Cornwall for yourself?

even though the main hospital is 'Quiet' and there is 700 miles of empty coastline for people to self isolate in better than they can in the cities.

You need to understand that public areas are for everyone, not just you.

 

You seem to know a lot about me - what makes you think I ignore the PM's or anyone else's failings?

 

I'm a 'classic sucker'! - I'd take offence if I was called that by anyone but the Total Thickhead you are.

Self isolating in your wagon - so no risk to anyone, you didn't get out once then - even for shopping?

My, you must have used a lot of 'bags' then!

 

I bloody live here, and have observed the advice because that's my choice.

As I said in a previous post, I could go to Dartmoor or the coast, or visit my family, but choose not to at the moment.

 

How could I possibly 'steal' Devon and Cornwall as you put it?

 

My family could come and visit me - I think a couple of acres would allow us enough distance, but I discourage them.

If my 94 year old father can hack it for 6 weeks so can you.

 

Perhaps you're related to that dozy t*at from Edinburgh, caught diving off Lyme Bay this weekend - 2 lifeboats, helicopter and the rest.

 

It's nothing to do with being a Nimby, it's about keeping me and others as safe as possible.

 

What part of distancing and avoiding unnecessary travel don't you get? YOU ARE the selfish one here.

 

You know bugger all about the hospitals down here, or anything else come to that - apart from what you read in the Beano maybe.

 

You're right public areas are for everyone and not just me - but not at the present time.

 

Are you going cold turkey in your Glasgow tenement :-D

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John52 - 2020-04-28 8:32 AM

 

globebuster - 2020-04-27 9:17 PM

 

John52 - 2020-04-26 8:14 PM

 

Birdbrain - 2020-04-26 7:00 PM

 

Jeez ... Imagine having such an empty , isolated life

 

Don't know who you are talking about.

But, Seriously, this is the worst crisis I have seen in my life.

So of course I care, and am very worried about it.

Now the Government has missed the chance to avoid it by testing and quarantine at the borders they have 'taken back control' of, and then maximised the damage by waiting till it got established before sourcing the equipment or starting the lockdown, I can't see a way out of it.

Can you?

 

Yeah you are really worried about it - You were bumming around the UK in your van until last weekend.

Hardly following advice were you - potentially spreading or contracting the virus.

You are a prize hypocrite John 52, let's hope you really are at home now - although somehow I doubt it.

 

Still I'm sure your hat is still coming in handy wherever you are.

 

Self isolating in my (motor)Home, so a risk to no-one.

(unless they threaten to damage my motorhome - people living in glass houses etc )

You are a classic sucker for BoJo's Divide and Rule spin machine -

ignoring all his failings and getting the people blaming each other.

- or are you just a selfish Nimby wanting to steal the public areas of Our Devon & Cornwall for yourself?

even though the main hospital is 'Quiet' and there is 700 miles of empty coastline for people to self isolate in better than they can in the cities.

You need to understand that public areas are for everyone, not just you.

 

You seem to know a lot about me - what makes you think I ignore the PM's or anyone else's failings?

 

I'm a 'classic sucker'! - I'd take offence if I was called that by anyone but the Total Thickhead you are.

Self isolating in your wagon - so no risk to anyone, you didn't get out once then - even for shopping?

My, you must have used a lot of 'bags' then!

 

I bloody live here, and have observed the advice because that's my choice.

As I said in a previous post, I could go to Dartmoor or the coast, or visit my family, but choose not to at the moment.

How could I possibly 'steal' Devon and Cornwall as you put it?

 

My family could come and visit me - I think a couple of acres would allow us enough distance, but I discourage them.

If my 94 year old father can hack it for 6 weeks so can you.

 

Perhaps you're related to that dozy t*at from Edinburgh, caught diving off Lyme Bay this weekend - 2 lifeboats, helicopter and the rest.

 

It's nothing to do with being a Nimby, it's about keeping me and others as safe as possible.

 

What part of distancing and avoiding unnecessary travel don't you get? YOU ARE the selfish one here.

 

You know bugger all about the hospitals down here, or anything else come to that - apart from what you read in the Beano maybe.

 

You're right public areas are for everyone and not just me - but not at the present time.

 

Are you going cold turkey in your Glasgow tenement :-D

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John52 - 2020-04-28 10:43 AM

 

pepe63 - 2020-04-28 10:37 AM

 

The old "...what if everyone did it..?.." springs to mind.

 

 

They won't, because they don't have the B*lls

They'd rather carp on forums about those who have :D

 

Blimey! Now you're putting yourself up as some kind of 'superhero' - you might like to think you have balls, it's just a pity they've replaced your brains.

 

Yeah! - the defiant 'Plumbers Mait' man - Cures all! - and saves the world with a woolly hat and a bag of human excrement!!!

 

 

 

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That is the kind of reaction (and worse) I think you will get if you flout the rules in a motorhome Im afraid.

 

Its pretty indefensible really if you have a home and are not forced into the van. I really wouldnt want to be in a motorhome right now unless I was on a private field with my own tap and waste access. Even then you will be limited on shopping to what the motorhome can store so will have to make more trips. I think I can get maybe four burgers and an Ice cream in my MH Freezer. most public toilets are shut, water sources will be scarce and black waste disposal nigh on impossible. On what planet would pouring black waste into a dog pooh bin be acceptable?

 

I know for sure if you turfed up in the upper Dales in a camper your presence would be quickly noticed and you wouldnt be there long.

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globebuster - 2020-04-28 12:18 PM

 

Self isolating in your wagon - so no risk to anyone, you didn't get out once then - even for shopping?

 

Of course I get out for shopping and exercise the same as everyone else - observing social distancing so no risk to anybody

globebuster - 2020-04-28 12:18 PM

How could I possibly 'steal' Devon and Cornwall as you put it?

By claiming others don't have the same right as you to enjoy it

globebuster - 2020-04-28 12:18 PM

My family could come and visit me - I think a couple of acres would allow us enough distance, but I discourage them.

I'm sure you do but I doubt if they need any more discouragement :D

 

globebuster - 2020-04-28 12:18 PM

Perhaps you're related to that dozy t*at from Edinburgh, caught diving off Lyme Bay this weekend - 2 lifeboats, helicopter and the rest.

Nope, so you're wrong again

globebuster - 2020-04-28 12:18 PM

You know bugger all about the hospitals down here, or anything else come to that - apart from what you read in the Beano maybe.

Came direct from an Official at the Hospital and was reported on Radio Cornwall - but I'm sure you know better *-)

 

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John52 - 2020-04-28 9:35 AM

 

Birdbrain - 2020-04-28 9:25 AM

 

John52 - 2020-04-28 9:21 AM

 

Birdbrain - 2020-04-28 9:06 AM

Thankfully not everyone with a motorhome or caravan thinks like you or Devon and Cornwalls main hospital might not be so quiet

 

Well at least the hospitals in other areas wouldn't be so busy - especially if people left the crowded areas and went to the empty areas of Devon & Cornwall where they can self isolate - so Treliske Hospital remains quiet.

 

Where would all those folk get water or more importantly get rid of their human waste

 

They could get water from public taps, filling stations etc, and if the Council has closed the public facilities get rid of human waste the same way the locals get rid of their dog waste. If you weren't so desperate to find something to criticise, you would be more concerned about how the growing number of homeless living on the streets are getting rid of human waste now the public facilities are closed,. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/apr/27/london-coronavirus-sacked-hospitality-workers-sleeping-rough

By closing public facilities, Councils have evaded responsibility for keeping them safe, but they have created a far bigger problem elsewhere. Putting up notices telling people not to foul the pavements without giving them an alternative, is a poor substitute for the free public toilets they used to provide.

 

Lordy

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Barry....That’s all very well for those who “flout” the advise, but some who are not “lifers” have sold their home and were aiming to tour before buying again. I would have been one had this arrived now. So through no fault of their own they are stuck in a van until the house market opens again.
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