Derek Uzzell Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 BruceM - 2020-06-08 11:03 AM Your posted link showing the tyres indicates that they should carry the 3PMSF (Three peaks with snowflake) symbol. This symbol came into force in November 2012. Might your tyres pre-date this? I suggest you check your tyre age on the tyre wall even if they were only fitted 6 years ago as they may have been older stock. I seem to recall that there was an exception for older pre-3PMSF symbol winter tyres. The Continental “VanContact Camper” range was introduced quite recently and (in certain larger-diameter sizes) essentially supersedes the now-elderly “Vanco Camper” CP-marked range that targets motorhome usage. Vanco Camper is a 'summer’ tyre, whereas VanContact Camper is an ‘all season’ tyre. On-line adverts relating to the latter are untrustworthy, but the Continental link provided in webpax’s posting of 8 June 2020 8:54 includes a download to a Continental ‘leaflet’ describing VanContact Camper. There is no mention in that leaflet that the tyre carries the 3PMSF marking, just that it complies with the “CP” philosophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceM Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 I guess any tyre can be used in all seasons. It’s notable that the Vanco Four Season 2 specifically mentions the 3PMSF symbol whilst the VanContact Camper does not. It would be reasonable, I think, to conclude that the VanContact Camper is not 3PMSF compliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 As I’m sure you are aware the tyre industry will categorize a tyre’s ’season’ as Summer, Winter or All Season. VanContact 4Season is an ‘All Season’ van tyre, and Continental’s advert shows that it is M+S and 3PMSF marked. https://www.continental-tyres.co.uk/car/tyres/vancontact-4season VanContact Camper is also an ‘All Season’ van tyre, but Continental’s advert has no indication that it is either M+S or 3PMSF marked. https://www.continental-tires.com/car/tires/vancontact-camper My understanding is that (due to a strange ETRTO ruling) only 8-ply-rated tyres are allowed to carry the CP (camping pneu) marking. So VanContact Camper tyres - although aimed at the motorhome (camping-car) market - may well not be CP-marked. Logically, it would be preferable for webpax’s Hymer to have had VanContact 4Season tyres as original equipment rather than VanContact Camper tyres... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 On the question of tyres, see if this helps: http://tinyurl.com/yagkuggk It would obviously be wise to check the current requirements for each country to be visited, in case of recent changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 More up-to-date tyre-related guidance on winter regulations on this Continental webpage https://www.continental-tires.com/transport/knowhow/european-winter-regulations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webpax Posted June 9, 2020 Author Share Posted June 9, 2020 BruceM - 2020-06-08 11:03 AM Your posted link showing the tyres indicates that they should carry the 3PMSF (Three peaks with snowflake) symbol. This symbol came into force in November 2012. Might your tyres pre-date this? I suggest you check your tyre age on the tyre wall even if they were only fitted 6 years ago as they may have been older stock. I seem to recall that there was an exception for older pre-3PMSF symbol winter tyres. Hi Bruce, I can't imagine my tyres are that old, it's a 2019 model and the VIN indicates it was built at the Mercedes factory in December 2018. I couldn't see in my link an indication that the tyres should carry the 3PMSF symbol, they just seem to be calling them 'all season'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webpax Posted June 9, 2020 Author Share Posted June 9, 2020 Derek Uzzell - 2020-06-08 3:37 PM As I’m sure you are aware the tyre industry will categorize a tyre’s ’season’ as Summer, Winter or All Season. VanContact 4Season is an ‘All Season’ van tyre, and Continental’s advert shows that it is M+S and 3PMSF marked. https://www.continental-tyres.co.uk/car/tyres/vancontact-4season VanContact Camper is also an ‘All Season’ van tyre, but Continental’s advert has no indication that it is either M+S or 3PMSF marked. https://www.continental-tires.com/car/tires/vancontact-camper My understanding is that (due to a strange ETRTO ruling) only 8-ply-rated tyres are allowed to carry the CP (camping pneu) marking. So VanContact Camper tyres - although aimed at the motorhome (camping-car) market - may well not be CP-marked. Logically, it would be preferable for webpax’s Hymer to have had VanContact 4Season tyres as original equipment rather than VanContact Camper tyres... Thanks for this Derek, I agree it would have been preferable to have the 4Season tyres. You mention that VanContact Camper tyres may not be CP-marked - mine do appear to be CP-marked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 I did say “...MAY well not be CP-marked” as I couldn’t see anything obvious on the Continental website to say that VanContact Camper tyres carried that marking, but thanks for confirming that VanContact Camper tyres are indeed CP-marked. Regarding tyre age, the expectation would be that a Hymer motorhome’s original equipment tyres would have been manufactured just a few months prior to when the motorhome was built. Each of your Hymer’s tyres will carry a 4-figure code to indicate when the tyre was manufactured. This code is made up as follows: Figures 1 & 2 = the week Figures 3 & 4 = the year The date-code in the image attached below is “2118” indicating that the tyre (clearly a Michelin product) was manufactured in the 21st week of the year 2018. If you are lucky the date-code will be on the sidewall that faces outwards and be easily identifiable: If you aren’t lucky and can’t find the code on the outer side-wall, it’s because the date-code is on the inner side-wall. But - outer or inner side-wall - your Hymer’s tyres WILL carry a week/year date-code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webpax Posted June 9, 2020 Author Share Posted June 9, 2020 Well, I got the van back late last night and this morning I have taken a look at the tyres prompted by Derek's post (the photo I posted previously was one taken months ago). Much to my surprise there is in fact the correct winter tyre logo on there. Sorry for any confusion caused! The diesel heater install is now done and I'll post some pics later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 webpax - 2020-06-09 12:16 PM The diesel heater install is now done and I'll post some pics later. I'm interested to see how they did the fuel pick up if you could manage any info/pics of that side of the install please. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 webpax - 2020-06-09 12:16 PM Well, I got the van back late last night and this morning I have taken a look at the tyres prompted by Derek's post (the photo I posted previously was one taken months ago). Much to my surprise there is in fact the correct winter tyre logo on there. Sorry for any confusion caused! The diesel heater install is now done and I'll post some pics later. Good news then... This on-line advert https://www.mytyres.co.uk/rshop/Tyres/Continental/VanContact-Camper/225-75-R16CP-118R-10PR/R-345773 showed the tyre as CP-marked and also carrying the M+S and 3PMSF symbol, but I wasn’t convinced when I saw it originally as Continental’s own webpage fails to mention the M+S/3PMSF markings which (one might think) would be important selling points for motorcaravanners. (Did you find the date-code?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtravel Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-06-08 6:50 PM On the question of tyres, see if this helps: http://tinyurl.com/yagkuggk It would obviously be wise to check the current requirements for each country to be visited, in case of recent changes. In Italy the law does not speak of tyres but of winter equipment. That is, as an alternative you can: - Have tyres marked at least M+S (obviously winter tyres are). - Have snow chains on board You can also fit 4 season tyres to be used all year round but the speed index must be at least that indicated on the registration certificate and never lower than Q. Deadlines Nov15-Apr15 (Valle d'Aosta Oct15). Local communities can extend but not shorten this period. On mountains very often it will start on Nov1. At least in the north where the climate is more severe, the vast majority of motorists prefer to fit summer and "real" winter tyres according to the season. A small part is satisfied with 4 season tyres. Attention in the event of an accident, the Supreme Court of Justice (Cassation) found the conduct of the driver without winter equipment culpable (therefore punishable and in any case aggravating). Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 webpax - 2020-06-09 12:16 PM Well, I got the van back late last night and this morning I have taken a look at the tyres prompted by Derek's post (the photo I posted previously was one taken months ago). Much to my surprise there is in fact the correct winter tyre logo on there. Sorry for any confusion caused! The diesel heater install is now done and I'll post some pics later. You may well be pleased you had that done. This was us, on 10 April 2006, in southern Bavaria, just outside Fussen. Not very good quality, I'm afraid, as its a low definition scan from a slide, but you'll get the picture! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webpax Posted June 9, 2020 Author Share Posted June 9, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-06-09 3:26 PM webpax - 2020-06-09 12:16 PM Well, I got the van back late last night and this morning I have taken a look at the tyres prompted by Derek's post (the photo I posted previously was one taken months ago). Much to my surprise there is in fact the correct winter tyre logo on there. Sorry for any confusion caused! The diesel heater install is now done and I'll post some pics later. You may well be pleased you had that done. This was us, on 10 April 2006, in southern Bavaria, just outside Fussen. Not very good quality, I'm afraid, as its a low definition scan from a slide, but you'll get the picture! :-D Wow that's a decent amount of snowfall on the van. No external silver screen by the look of things? I managed without one in the Alps in February but wondering whether I might be best getting one. Hated the faff on the last van though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webpax Posted June 9, 2020 Author Share Posted June 9, 2020 Derek Uzzell - 2020-06-09 1:20 PM webpax - 2020-06-09 12:16 PM Well, I got the van back late last night and this morning I have taken a look at the tyres prompted by Derek's post (the photo I posted previously was one taken months ago). Much to my surprise there is in fact the correct winter tyre logo on there. Sorry for any confusion caused! The diesel heater install is now done and I'll post some pics later. Good news then... This on-line advert https://www.mytyres.co.uk/rshop/Tyres/Continental/VanContact-Camper/225-75-R16CP-118R-10PR/R-345773 showed the tyre as CP-marked and also carrying the M+S and 3PMSF symbol, but I wasn’t convinced when I saw it originally as Continental’s own webpage fails to mention the M+S/3PMSF markings which (one might think) would be important selling points for motorcaravanners. (Did you find the date-code?) Yes it does seem strange that Continental's own webpage fails to mention those important ratings. I didn't find the date code so assuming they're the other side. I will try and look at some point as I'm curious now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webpax Posted June 9, 2020 Author Share Posted June 9, 2020 In the end I went for an Eberspacher Airtronic S2/D2 with the Easy Start controller as per this link: https://www.pfjones.co.uk/eberspacher-airtronic-d2l-motorhome-kit-with-easystart-pro-7-day-timer.html I contacted a number of Webasto and Eberspacher dealers but Gary Farnell of PF Jones Stoke stood out due to his prompt replies to emails and his obvious extensive knowledge of the subject matter. https://www.pfjones.co.uk/campervan-conversions.html I went up to see them for a survey/fitting and Gary quickly identified a place to put the heater that didn't involve drilling the double floor. It was decided to put it under a seat that has a storage space. I was a bit concerned about losing the whole of the storage as it's one we use a lot. To avoid that Gary made a custom shelf to cover the heater and leave the rest of the space free for storage. As the depot at Stoke also do camper van conversions as well as Eberspacher installs they were able to make the shelf to a high standard. Similarly the controller wiring has all been cleverly hidden. I'm very happy with the install although I thought the heat output vent looked slightly obtrusive. When I managed this to Gary he immediately said he would send me a flush fitting vent in the post free of charge for me to try instead. I gave the heater a thorough test today and it kicks out a substantial amount of heat. It's much quieter than I imagined, I can't hear the pump clicking at all, I believe this is something Eberspacher have fixed on their latest models. You can hear the fan working of course but it's no noisier than the Truma. Keithl I believe a pipe was inserted into the fuel sender unit using a kit like this: https://www.butlertechnik.com/mercedes-sprinter-2018-d2-d4-fuel-sender-unit-kit-p2763 If you need any more pics please let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 webpax - 2020-06-09 7:28 PM Brian Kirby - 2020-06-09 3:26 PM webpax - 2020-06-09 12:16 PM Well, I got the van back late last night and this morning I have taken a look at the tyres prompted by Derek's post (the photo I posted previously was one taken months ago). Much to my surprise there is in fact the correct winter tyre logo on there. Sorry for any confusion caused! The diesel heater install is now done and I'll post some pics later. You may well be pleased you had that done. This was us, on 10 April 2006, in southern Bavaria, just outside Fussen. Not very good quality, I'm afraid, as its a low definition scan from a slide, but you'll get the picture! :-D Wow that's a decent amount of snowfall on the van. No external silver screen by the look of things? I managed without one in the Alps in February but wondering whether I might be best getting one. Hated the faff on the last van though. It arrived overnight on 9 April. It was just drizzle when we arrived at the campsite, so we were a bit surprised when we woke up. :-) We'd had some snow as we crossed the Black Forest from France, but once we got down to lower altitude that disappeared (though the snowed up road signs made navigating a bit "interesting"! :-) We had to get a tow out of the campsite because of a steep exit ramp, but the local roads had all been cleared. However, when we exited the Grenztunnel into Austria we found the Austrians had not cleared back as far as the tunnel, and there was a massive tail-back caused by a number of trucks that had "gone gardening. Having set off from home in spring, I had no chains, and only Michelin Camping tyres on the van. The road was compacted snow that had iced over. I got out to ask a German chap in front if he knew whether the Fernpass was open (and nearly ended up sitting on the road) and, having been told it was open only to vehicles with chains, decided to return to Fussen. The resulting multi-point turn proved that the tyres were useless on ice, so we slithered and slewed our way back whence we had come (interesting in 3.5 ill-equipped tonnes!) and spent that day and the next night on a stellplatz in Fussen. We extracted ourselves from the stell the next morning, renegotiated the tunnel, and emerged onto clear roads through Austria and into Italy - where the sun was shining and the apple blossom splendid. Funny things, mountains and weather, ain't they? :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 webpax - 2020-06-09 8:22 PM In the end I went for an Eberspacher Airtronic S2/D2 with the Easy Start controller as per this link: https://www.pfjones.co.uk/eberspacher-airtronic-d2l-motorhome-kit-with-easystart-pro-7-day-timer.html I contacted a number of Webasto and Eberspacher dealers but Gary Farnell of PF Jones Stoke stood out due to his prompt replies to emails and his obvious extensive knowledge of the subject matter. https://www.pfjones.co.uk/campervan-conversions.html I went up to see them for a survey/fitting and Gary quickly identified a place to put the heater that didn't involve drilling the double floor. It was decided to put it under a seat that has a storage space. I was a bit concerned about losing the whole of the storage as it's one we use a lot. To avoid that Gary made a custom shelf to cover the heater and leave the rest of the space free for storage. As the depot at Stoke also do camper van conversions as well as Eberspacher installs they were able to make the shelf to a high standard. Similarly the controller wiring has all been cleverly hidden. I'm very happy with the install although I thought the heat output vent looked slightly obtrusive. When I managed this to Gary he immediately said he would send me a flush fitting vent in the post free of charge for me to try instead. I gave the heater a thorough test today and it kicks out a substantial amount of heat. It's much quieter than I imagined, I can't hear the pump clicking at all, I believe this is something Eberspacher have fixed on their latest models. You can hear the fan working of course but it's no noisier than the Truma. Keithl I believe a pipe was inserted into the fuel sender unit using a kit like this: https://www.butlertechnik.com/mercedes-sprinter-2018-d2-d4-fuel-sender-unit-kit-p2763 If you need any more pics please let me know. Very neat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtravel Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 I personally leave the snow chains on board even in summer. As well as in the case of snow or ice, they can also be used in the event of mud getting stuck. Last experience last August at the Holly Bank campsite in Warrington (Manchester) where the warden led me to a pitch that claimed to be a hard one. Sgrunt !!! Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webpax Posted June 10, 2020 Author Share Posted June 10, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-06-10 12:57 PM webpax - 2020-06-09 7:28 PM Brian Kirby - 2020-06-09 3:26 PM webpax - 2020-06-09 12:16 PM Well, I got the van back late last night and this morning I have taken a look at the tyres prompted by Derek's post (the photo I posted previously was one taken months ago). Much to my surprise there is in fact the correct winter tyre logo on there. Sorry for any confusion caused! The diesel heater install is now done and I'll post some pics later. You may well be pleased you had that done. This was us, on 10 April 2006, in southern Bavaria, just outside Fussen. Not very good quality, I'm afraid, as its a low definition scan from a slide, but you'll get the picture! :-D Wow that's a decent amount of snowfall on the van. No external silver screen by the look of things? I managed without one in the Alps in February but wondering whether I might be best getting one. Hated the faff on the last van though. It arrived overnight on 9 April. It was just drizzle when we arrived at the campsite, so we were a bit surprised when we woke up. :-) We'd had some snow as we crossed the Black Forest from France, but once we got down to lower altitude that disappeared (though the snowed up road signs made navigating a bit "interesting"! :-) We had to get a tow out of the campsite because of a steep exit ramp, but the local roads had all been cleared. However, when we exited the Grenztunnel into Austria we found the Austrians had not cleared back as far as the tunnel, and there was a massive tail-back caused by a number of trucks that had "gone gardening. Having set off from home in spring, I had no chains, and only Michelin Camping tyres on the van. The road was compacted snow that had iced over. I got out to ask a German chap in front if he knew whether the Fernpass was open (and nearly ended up sitting on the road) and, having been told it was open only to vehicles with chains, decided to return to Fussen. The resulting multi-point turn proved that the tyres were useless on ice, so we slithered and slewed our way back whence we had come (interesting in 3.5 ill-equipped tonnes!) and spent that day and the next night on a stellplatz in Fussen. We extracted ourselves from the stell the next morning, renegotiated the tunnel, and emerged onto clear roads through Austria and into Italy - where the sun was shining and the apple blossom splendid. Funny things, mountains and weather, ain't they? :-D Great story, the weather can indeed turn very suddenly in the mountains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 It looks very well done. Seeing the nice pictures. What i do not understand is the Pick up of the fuel, inlet air and hot exhaust air out. Inside or outside. Does the digital thermostats cuts in and out at set temp. I have a Webasto air top 20000 stc. The only thing i see from it inside is a thermostat hot air out and inlet air from the cabin. All the rest sits under body, including a dedicated fuel pick up on top of the fuel tank. Your outfit will not be allowed here in belgium and germany. Since it need a EU approval. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webpax Posted June 12, 2020 Author Share Posted June 12, 2020 Hans - 2020-06-11 4:05 PM It looks very well done. Seeing the nice pictures. What i do not understand is the Pick up of the fuel, inlet air and hot exhaust air out. Inside or outside. Does the digital thermostats cuts in and out at set temp. I have a Webasto air top 20000 stc. The only thing i see from it inside is a thermostat hot air out and inlet air from the cabin. All the rest sits under body, including a dedicated fuel pick up on top of the fuel tank. Your outfit will not be allowed here in belgium and germany. Since it need a EU approval. This is an Eberspacher S2/D2 L professionally fitted by an authorised Eberspacher dealer so I do not really understand why you are saying this won't be allowed in Belgium or Germany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 Hans The Eberspacher unit fitted to webpax’s Hymer is installed in the base of a small inwards-facing seat located just in front of the motorhome’s habitation area entrance door. (Red arrow in attached image.) Webpax’s 5th photo shows that the air inlet and exhaust outlet for the heater’s burner pass through the floor beneath the heater to emerge in the outside air. The 6th photo shows that the exhaust pipe leads rearwards along the chassis frame to a silencer to the rear of the door’s entrance step. It’s reasonable to assume that the burner's air-inlet hose terminates not far from where it comes out of the floor’s underside. Are you suggesting that the Eberspacher heater installation carried out on webpax’s motorhome would not be allowable in Belgium and Germany because of those countries’ national regulations, or that it would be illegal for webpax to travel in his motorhome in Belgium or Germany now that the Eberspacher heater has been added? I can well believe that the former would be true, but the UK has no such regulations regarding this type of ‘modification’. Webpax could have legally carried out the task himself if he had wanted to, though having the work done professionally was definitely the right decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webpax Posted June 12, 2020 Author Share Posted June 12, 2020 Derek Uzzell - 2020-06-12 8:12 AM It’s reasonable to assume that the burner's air-inlet hose terminates not far from where it comes out of the floor’s underside. Your assessment of the installation is very accurate Derek and I can confirm the above statement is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 Why the inlet cold air is from the Underfloor ? And not from the cabin? That means there is no recirculation of Air inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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