No Food to be Taken to Europe.

[Derek Uzzell]

As seems to be commonplace on this forum nowadays, the issue raised in the original posting rapidly digressed into personal opinions/comments about Continental European food with particular reference to France.

 

It’s perhaps worth reminding people that France is not the only EU country that has direct ferry links to the UK, and that the same ‘animal products’ restrictions will presumably apply to motorcaravanners travelling on a ferry to Belgium, Ireland, the Netherlands or Spain.

[Basil]

Not sure if I read this correctly but if I do then I am not sure that the aforesaid applies when reading the relevant legal document as referred to in the link above

 

EUR LEX Document 32019R2122

 

Article 6

 

Products of animal origin and composite products on board means of transport operating internationally which are not unloaded and are intended for consumption by the crew and passengers

 

1. Products of animal origin and composite products are exempted from official controls at border control posts provided that:

 

(a)

 

they are intended for consumption by the crew and passengers on board means of transport operating internationally; and

 

(b)

 

they are not unloaded on Union territory.

 

2. Direct transfer of goods referred to in paragraph 1 unloaded at a port from one means of transport operating internationally to another means of transport operating internationally is exempted from official controls at border control posts provided that:

 

(a)

 

it takes place in accordance with the agreement of the competent authority of the border control post; and

 

(b)

 

it takes place under customs supervision.

 

3. The operator responsible for the goods referred to in paragraph 1 shall request the agreement referred to in paragraph 2(a) prior to the transfer of these goods from one means of transport operating internationally to another means of transport operating internationally.

 

Article 7

 

Goods which form part of passengers’ personal luggage and are intended for personal consumption or use

 

Products of animal origin, composite products, products derived from animal by-products, plants, plant products and other objects which form part of passengers’ personal luggage and which are intended for personal consumption or use, are exempted from official controls at border control posts provided that they belong to at least one of the following categories:

 

(a)

 

goods listed in Part 1 of Annex I provided that their combined quantity does not exceed the weight limit of 2 kg;

 

(b)

 

eviscerated fresh fishery products or prepared fishery products, or processed fishery products provided that their combined quantity does not exceed the weight limit of 20 kg or the weight of one fish, whichever weight is the highest;

 

©

 

goods other than those referred to in points (a) and (b) of this article and other than those referred to in Part 2 of Annex I, provided that their combined quantity does not exceed the weight limit of 2 kg;

 

(d)

 

plants, other than plants for planting, plant products and other objects;

 

(e)

 

goods, other than plants for planting, coming from Andorra, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway, San Marino or Switzerland;

 

(f)

 

fishery products coming from the Faroe Islands or Greenland;

 

(g)

 

goods, other than plants for planting and other than fishery products, coming from the Faroe Islands or Greenland provided that their combined quantity does not exceed the weight limit of 10 kg.

 

This suggests to me that if you are consuming it yourself and you don't exceed the limits there is no problem.

 

Bas

[malc d]

Basil - 2020-12-29 8:57 PM

 

Not sure if I read this correctly but if I do then I am not sure that the aforesaid applies when reading the relevant legal document as referred to in the link above

 

EUR LEX Document 32019R2122

 

This suggests to me that if you are consuming it yourself and you don't exceed the limits there is no problem.

 

Bas

You could be right , but this document may only refer to movements between EU countries .

 

(?)

[Brian Kirby]

Basil - 2020-12-29 8:57 PM

Not sure if I read this correctly but if I do then I am not sure that the aforesaid applies when reading the relevant legal document as referred to in the link above

EUR LEX Document 32019R2122..................

Well done Basil! But, I think it perhaps needs to be read in conjunction with the following Article 7. The question in my mind is whether a motor caravan driven by and carrying only its owner/s qualifies as a "means of transport travelling internationally", or whether a "means of transport travelling internationally" is limited in meaning to commercially operated passenger vehicles. Article 7 seems potentially to contradict Article 6. If Article 7 rules, then you're pretty well limited to 2kg in total, but it is unclear whether that 2kg is per passenger, or to be shared among everyone! Anyone know (as in actually know! :-))?

 

Regarding internal borders, I think not, as there are no checkpoints at the internal EU/Schengen borders. The qualifying borders are, I think, the Schengen/EU borders (i.e. the external border).

[Geeco]

The ferry journey from Melbourne on the mainland to Davenport on the north coast of Tasmania takes around 9 hours. The frig is not on in the motorhome as no gas can be used and no electric hookup is available. The government in Tasmania is very strict about what can be taken to the island and as a result virtually no food is allowed to be taken by ferry to the island. Our procedure is to use all fresh food before the journey then on arrival go straight to the supermarket near the ferry terminal and stock up . Then to the local camp ground hook up get the frig cold overnight and cook dinner. Never been an issue worth debating. cheers,

[TeamRienza]

Our ferry takes 18 hours from Dublin to Cherbourg. There are a limited number of ehu points, so not to be relied on. Apart from Teabags (400) and the remains of milk, bread and any other items cleared from the fridge, we take very little although there are store cupboard tins etc.

 

The point is we regard the first stop at a leclerc in Carentan as the official start of the holiday. First wine of the trip bought, madeleines, croissants and all the lovely fresh foods. As we say in Norn Iron, ya cudnt bate it with a big stick.

 

Davy

[Derek Uzzell]

That may be OK if one arrives in France on a weekday during normal shopping hours, but we disembark at Ouistreham on a Sunday at around 22:00 (if we are lucky!) when obtaining food supplies will not be possible until the following day.

 

In any case, as you are doing what we do (and I'm sure many other motorcaravanners do) and clearing the home fridge of milk, the ‘no food’ rules would (apparently) prohibit that practice.

 

 

[StuartO]

My wife developed the habit of loading our MH freezer compartment full of frozen portioned meat as her way of objecting to the banning of British meat across Continental Europe during the Mad Cow scare. It worked very well as a method of keeping things cold during the ferry crossing and since she felt butchery abroad was a messy and puzzling way of presenting joints of meat, we usually managed to survive on the meat we'd taken with us for the duration of our holiday.

 

If we have to travel across the Channel with an empty fridge we will doubtless be able to cope, just as we'll be able to cope with obtaining Animal Health Certificates for the dogs, a green card for MH insurance and International Driving Permits for ourselves. But will we bother to take this extra trouble and pay the extra costs, we wonder? We've done so little touring in UK for so many years and we're now well into our 70s so maybe we'll choose to stay in UK from now on. If we decide to do that we can even tow our little car using an A Frame if we want to!

[colin]

I would note that you may wish to look at the advice after 1/1/2021 when it should change.

The UK should then be under same rules as Andorra, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway, San Marino and Switzerland as we are deemed to have the same animal health standards as EU.

 

(Edited to correct year - Keithl)

[TeePee]

We take a supply of tinned food because it is often convenient, saves gas and economic so we enjoy the best of both worlds, local food and home foods . I also take an empty screwtop bottle to fill up with wine at the vineyards. You have to make the most of it.

UN baggett sil vous plait!

[Basil]

malc d - 2020-12-29 9:12 PM

 

 

You could be right , but this document may only refer to movements between EU countries .

 

(?)

I don't know but the fact that the legal document refers directly to 'International travel' suggests it is more than just internal borders to me.

 

Brian Kirby - 2020-12-30 4:45 PM

 

Well done Basil! But, I think it perhaps needs to be read in conjunction with the following Article 7. The question in my mind is whether a motor caravan driven by and carrying only its owner/s qualifies as a "means of transport travelling internationally", or whether a "means of transport travelling internationally" is limited in meaning to commercially operated passenger vehicles. Article 7 seems potentially to contradict Article 6. If Article 7 rules, then you're pretty well limited to 2kg in total, but it is unclear whether that 2kg is per passenger, or to be shared among everyone! Anyone know (as in actually know! :-))?

 

Regarding internal borders, I think not, as there are no checkpoints at the internal EU/Schengen borders. The qualifying borders are, I think, the Schengen/EU borders (i.e. the external border).

Yes, I am also not sure but that is why I included Article 7. My own interpretation, and the reason I raised it here for someone who may have knowledge of the legal documentation, is that Article 6 seems to imply some 'vehicle' transporting foods for own consumption, whereas Article 7 seems to imply food carried in say, a suitcase or personal baggage, anyhow that is my own interpretation.

 

I have run off copies in both English and French, they are listed in all usual languages on the link page, that I intend to carry with me should I be subject to a challenge and maybe when that time comes I will get back here and pass on the outcome!

 

I would concur on your comment regarding borders and the Shengen area.

 

Bas

[Geeco]

Derek Uzzell - 2020-12-31 7:41 AM

 

That may be OK if one arrives in France on a weekday during normal shopping hours, but we disembark at Ouistreham on a Sunday at around 22:00 (if we are lucky!) when obtaining food supplies will not be possible until the following day.

Solution for you Derek is an Asian style freeze dried noodle soup in a cup - just add hot water. Available at UK supermarkets like Asda, Lidl, Aldi etc. Nice light nourishment after a rough crossing! cheers,

[Derek Uzzell]

That doesn’t meet my understanding of the word “food” :-) and there’s still the question of what my cost-conscious wife does with the milk/animal products that would spoil (or exceed their usage date) in our domestic fridge if we left them there while abroad.

 

(As we are never abroad for more than a fortnight, realistically any ’no food’ restriction wouldn’t impact dramatically on us. It’s just that it’s been convenient for us in the past to take some perishable food with us when we go and we’d like to continue to do this.)

 

The limits mentioned on the following link might affect motorcaravanners returning TO the UK FROM the EU more than ‘food’ restrictions going FROM the UK TO the EU.

 

https://www.gov.uk/duty-free-goods/print

[goldi]

Derek Uzzell - 2021-01-01 9:42 AM

 

That doesn’t meet my understanding of the word “food” :-) and there’s still the question of what my cost-conscious wife does with the milk/animal products that would spoil (or exceed their usage date) in our domestic fridge if we left them there while abroad.

 

(As we are never abroad for more than a fortnight, realistically any ’no food’ restriction wouldn’t impact dramatically on us. It’s just that it’s been convenient for us in the past to take some perishable food with us when we go and we’d like to continue to do this.)

 

The limits mentioned on the following link might affect motorcaravanners returning TO the UK FROM the EU more than ‘food’ restrictions going FROM the UK TO the EU.

 

https://www.gov.uk/duty-free-goods/print

We usually do the same with our fridge contents and will continue to do so, if the customs stop us I will take the attitude of well it would have gone off anyway. The UK government link indicates to me the arrangements will be reciprocal

[BruceM]

Derek Uzzell - 2021-01-01 9:42 AM

 

https://www.gov.uk/duty-free-goods/print

Thank you Derek, that link is useful.

 

It strikes me that the allowances are remarkably generous for a country that desperately needs to raise its tax revenue.

 

By my calculations, if we assume 75cl bottles, then two people in a van can bring back between them 48 bottles of regular wine and 24 bottles of bubbly as well as 147 pints of beer.

 

It appears the phenomenon of the ‘booze cruse’ will continue.

 

Of course , I guess this might all change in future budgets.

[Brian Kirby]

Basil - 2020-12-31 8:17 PM...............................Yes, I am also not sure but that is why I included Article 7. My own interpretation, and the reason I raised it here for someone who may have knowledge of the legal documentation, is that Article 6 seems to imply some 'vehicle' transporting foods for own consumption, whereas Article 7 seems to imply food carried in say, a suitcase or personal baggage, anyhow that is my own interpretation....................Bas

Yes, that is how I read it as well, although it could be worded more clearly! Which is to say that the 2kg limit as in Article 7 should not apply. The real question is whether that coincides with the official interpretation that a French (most probably) border guard will have been given! :-) I think, in fact, from hazy :-) memory, we are simply reverting to the rules that applied before 1973, when items for personal consumption were disregarded. In short, if it's in your private (i.e. non-commercial) vehicle, it doesn't count. S'all fun, innit! :-D

[hallii]

I look forward to the thrill of passing through customs ( on either side) whilst being over the limit or carrying contraband goods. I did this many times before Brexit and only once was the M/H subject to a cursory search, " How much wine have you got?" asked the customs man about 100 bottles I said, "OK" he said " Don't drink it all at once" and waved me on. By the way, is under the toilet cassette a good place to conceal my two blocks of cheddar? I would wrap it in aluminium foil of course. H

[vindiboy]

hallii - 2021-01-01 12:21 PM

 

I look forward to the thrill of passing through customs ( on either side) whilst being over the limit or carrying contraband goods. I did this many times before Brexit and only once was the M/H subject to a cursory search, " How much wine have you got?" asked the customs man about 100 bottles I said, "OK" he said " Don't drink it all at once" and waved me on. By the way, is under the toilet cassette a good place to conceal my two blocks of cheddar? I would wrap it in aluminium foil of course. H

Silly Billy as a Customs officer I am interested to hear that, but we are aware of this anyway Mr Smarty?

[Barryd999]

vindiboy - 2021-01-01 1:39 PM

 

hallii - 2021-01-01 12:21 PM

 

I look forward to the thrill of passing through customs ( on either side) whilst being over the limit or carrying contraband goods. I did this many times before Brexit and only once was the M/H subject to a cursory search, " How much wine have you got?" asked the customs man about 100 bottles I said, "OK" he said " Don't drink it all at once" and waved me on. By the way, is under the toilet cassette a good place to conceal my two blocks of cheddar? I would wrap it in aluminium foil of course. H

Silly Billy as a Customs officer I am interested to hear that, but we are aware of this anyway Mr Smarty?

I doubt the French customs officers will be checking for blocks of Cheddar. They will assume nobody would be daft enough to bring Cheddar to France. (lol)

[vindiboy]

Our winter trips to Portugal/ Spain are usually for up to six months [or were] before we set off some weeks ahead we run our fridge and freezer contents down and what is left on departure day comes with us, my wife is a wizard at packing our vans large freezer, with what is left, our freezer at hone is then switched off , why store food for the period we are away at home ? we will continue to do this, if Customs take our food from us , so be it, no big deal,

We enjoy the food in the continental Countries,that is on offer, cant see why folks rave about French Cheese, British Cheese is great and all other Cheeses from around the world are available at home anyway ? I love fish and chips Pasties when in the mood for these especially as we have some great outlets for these in our area, Haggis OK at times rarely admittedly. .

My first shop in France when needed my first buy is fresh Prawns Langoustines fresh Baguette and Tomatoes what a super lunch that makes , Prawns are probably caught in UK waters,

So each to their own as we say you eat and do as you like .

[StuartO]

It's difficult to imagine that the French will have the interest of find the time to stop and search lots of MHs for meat and fish once the touring season of 2021 gets going towards the Summer, after we oldies have had our vaccines and COVID tarvel restrictions start to ease, but I suppose the word will get around if they start to do so, so we can act accordingly.

[colin]

I must admit to be surprised the rules haven't been updated, as far as animal health is concerned we are in a similar situation as Iceland etc. and Boris's 'famous' bit of paper confirms that, so I see no reason that we don't have the same rules as Iceland etc, maybe in time?

[twbm]

colin - 2020-12-29 3:57 PM

 

Before going anywhere in the van we load up to keep us going until such time as we might want to shop. I see nothing in the regs that will have any significant impact on that. There is no ban on taking the food, just certain limits.

I do remember 40 years ago bringing back a good quantity of sausages, at the time that was forbidden.

Take a look at the 'Rules when Travelling from a non EU country'. I think they're pretty clear.

 

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/carry/meat-dairy-animal/index_en.htm#:~:text=If%20you%20travel%20to%20the,fish%20products%20are%20also%20allowed.

[twbm]

StuartO - 2021-01-02 12:07 PM

 

It's difficult to imagine that the French will have the interest of find the time to stop and search lots of MHs for meat and fish once the touring season of 2021 gets going towards the Summer, after we oldies have had our vaccines and COVID tarvel restrictions start to ease, but I suppose the word will get around if they start to do so, so we can act accordingly.

The French love a protest, and their small farmers are, as I understand it, amongst the most heavily subsidised in Europe. I will not be surprised if pretty much every GB plate vehicle gets a full check on arrival, and getting back into Portsmouth was taking an hour and a half from ferry to port exit back in July last year, mostly because the vast majority of vans and motorhomes were inspected internally. I don't see that getting any better either.

[Brian Kirby]

twbm - 2021-01-02 12:25 PM.........................Take a look at the 'Rules when Travelling from a non EU country'. I think they're pretty clear.

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/carry/meat-dairy-animal/index_en.htm#:~:text=If%20you%20travel%20to%20the,fish%20products%20are%20also%20allowed.

And what interpretation do you arrive at, please?