No Food to be Taken to Europe.

[colin]

twbm - 2021-01-02 12:25 PM

 

colin - 2020-12-29 3:57 PM

 

Before going anywhere in the van we load up to keep us going until such time as we might want to shop. I see nothing in the regs that will have any significant impact on that. There is no ban on taking the food, just certain limits.

I do remember 40 years ago bringing back a good quantity of sausages, at the time that was forbidden.

Take a look at the 'Rules when Travelling from a non EU country'. I think they're pretty clear.

 

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/carry/meat-dairy-animal/index_en.htm#:~:text=If%20you%20travel%20to%20the,fish%20products%20are%20also%20allowed.

That says the UK is part of EU, so it's not clear at all.

[Adiebt]

Barryd999 - 2021-01-01 2:04 PM

 

vindiboy - 2021-01-01 1:39 PM

 

hallii - 2021-01-01 12:21 PM

 

I look forward to the thrill of passing through customs ( on either side) whilst being over the limit or carrying contraband goods. I did this many times before Brexit and only once was the M/H subject to a cursory search, " How much wine have you got?" asked the customs man about 100 bottles I said, "OK" he said " Don't drink it all at once" and waved me on. By the way, is under the toilet cassette a good place to conceal my two blocks of cheddar? I would wrap it in aluminium foil of course. H

Silly Billy as a Customs officer I am interested to hear that, but we are aware of this anyway Mr Smarty?

I doubt the French customs officers will be checking for blocks of Cheddar. They will assume nobody would be daft enough to bring Cheddar to France. (lol)

 

In last years World Cheese Awards the winner was an American Blue and a British Cheddar came 4th , no French cheese was in the top 15 , viva GB !

[kevina]

How about telling French customs that you've just driven direct from Northern Ireland?

[TeamRienza]

Possibly a business opportunity for me! I wonder how many people and vans I could rent my N.Ireland address to before it became suspicious.

 

I think you would need to arrive in the Republic first, drive into N. Ireland and then take a ferry across to Cairnryan or Liverpool to avoid UK customs. Possibly would outweigh any cost savings as Irish Sea ferries are hugely exorbitant..

 

I don’t think it would work the other way round as we are not allowed British sausages anymore. You even have to declare money over £10,000 traveling from the GB to our part of the UK. So can’t even do a proper gassing insurance claim now!

 

Davy

[Basil]

twbm - 2021-01-02 12:25 PM

 

Take a look at the 'Rules when Travelling from a non EU country'. I think they're pretty clear.

 

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/carry/meat-dairy-animal/index_en.htm#:~:text=If%20you%20travel%20to%20the,fish%20products%20are%20also%20allowed.

Yes it seems it does support our interpretation of the legal document from the very first paragraph, so the title of this thread is really a non issue but at least the discussion has helped to clarify, to quote the linked document

 

---------------------------------------Carrying animal products, food or plants in the EU-------------------------------------

 

If you are travelling in the EU you can carry meat or dairy products with you as long as they are for your own personal consumption. This also applies to plants or plant products, such as cut flowers, fruit or vegetables as long as they have been grown in an EU country and are free from pests or disease.

 

In this context, EU includes the 27 EU countries, Andorra, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway, San Marino, Switzerland, and the UK.

 

These rules also apply when you carry meat, dairy or plant products in your luggage, or if you order these items online or have them sent by mail.

[gassygassy]

I recall when we were in the Common Market travelling with our AutoSleeper VW LT28 with our little children. The French Customs wanted to inspect inside the camper. Oui, monsieur, pas de problem. He came in, looked around, opened the washroom door to be confronted by the orrible pong of gone-off nappies. He quickly shut it and ran away.

[colin]

Basil - 2021-01-02 9:26 PM

 

twbm - 2021-01-02 12:25 PM

 

Take a look at the 'Rules when Travelling from a non EU country'. I think they're pretty clear.

 

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/carry/meat-dairy-animal/index_en.htm#:~:text=If%20you%20travel%20to%20the,fish%20products%20are%20also%20allowed.

Yes it seems it does support our interpretation of the legal document from the very first paragraph, so the title of this thread is really a non issue but at least the discussion has helped to clarify, to quote the linked document

 

---------------------------------------Carrying animal products, food or plants in the EU-------------------------------------

 

If you are travelling in the EU you can carry meat or dairy products with you as long as they are for your own personal consumption. This also applies to plants or plant products, such as cut flowers, fruit or vegetables as long as they have been grown in an EU country and are free from pests or disease.

 

In this context, EU includes the 27 EU countries, Andorra, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway, San Marino, Switzerland, and the UK.

 

These rules also apply when you carry meat, dairy or plant products in your luggage, or if you order these items online or have them sent by mail.

The linked web page was from 3 months ago when UK was still in the translon period and following all EU rules with no controls on food stuffs, that is no longer the case. As I posted above hopefully we will be treated the same as Iceland etc. but there seems to be nothing to published as yet.

 

Personal imports of certain products of animal origin will be prohibited from 11pm on 31 December, a ban which will also apply to tourists travelling to the EU. The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs advised transport representatives of the ban this week and gave the specific example in its updated guidance of an ordinary sandwich. The official guidance states: “Drivers travelling to the EU should be aware of additional restrictions to personal imports taking effect from 1 January 2021. If you are carrying prohibited items in your luggage, vehicle or person you will need to use, consume, or dispose of them at or before the border. “From 1 January 2021 you will not be able to bring POAO (products of an animal origin) such as those containing meat or dairy (eg a ham and cheese sandwich) into the EU.”

Quote is about 1/3 way down on this page.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/transporting-goods-between-great-britain-and-the-eu-from-1-january-2021-guidance-for-hauliers

[gassygassy]

One would therefore assume that the same applies to EU products coming into the UK. i.e no imports of any animal products. So we will have to grow our own cows, poultry, sheep, pigs etc and not import any.

[Derek Uzzell]

gov.uk advice (last updated 21 December 2020) on what one needs to know if bringing food or other plant or animal products into the UK for personal use can be found here

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/personal-food-plant-and-animal-product-imports#what-you-can-bring-from-eu-countries

 

EU countries-related guidance on attached file

 

[John52]

laimeduck - 2020-12-28 5:04 PM

 

I wonder what would happen if for example I had an Italian salami sandwich with Issigny butter on me when i entered France?

Would that be banned?

Apparently its necessary to point out

Italy and France are still in the EU

[John52]

mtravel - 2020-12-29 2:47 PM

certainly better than the inevitable fish&chips served in the UK.

Not ot mention the inedible Cornish pasty or Haggis.

Max

All those things can be marvellous, disgusting, or anywhere in between.

When you live in UK you find out where to get the good stuff :-D

[Cattwg]

We always use the tunnel for Europe these days. Looking on Google maps there’s a Lidl half an hour away from the tunnel terminal. Of course, there’s also Carrefour in Cité Europe but it’s much easier to walk around the very much smaller Lidl. So looks like we’ll be heading there immediately after disembarking the train in future.

Oh well just another inconvenience of Brexit.

Cattwg :-D

[Mickt]

That is what we are doing Stuart staying in the UK and touring, not done much of the UK in the last 20 years so it's about time we did.

[laimeduck]

John52 - 2021-01-03 5:49 PM

 

laimeduck - 2020-12-28 5:04 PM

 

I wonder what would happen if for example I had an Italian salami sandwich with Issigny butter on me when i entered France?

Would that be banned?

Apparently its necessary to point out

Italy and France are still in the EU

Yes I realised that, but ........

If I have a pack of Italian Salami and a roll of Issigny Butter purchased in Waitrose in the fridge will they confiscate it?

Or Waitrose Brussels Pate, or French Torchon ham?

[Brian Kirby]

colin - 2021-01-02 9:38 PM...............................

Personal imports of certain products of animal origin will be prohibited from 11pm on 31 December, a ban which will also apply to tourists travelling to the EU. The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs advised transport representatives of the ban this week and gave the specific example in its updated guidance of an ordinary sandwich. The official guidance states: “Drivers travelling to the EU should be aware of additional restrictions to personal imports taking effect from 1 January 2021. If you are carrying prohibited items in your luggage, vehicle or person you will need to use, consume, or dispose of them at or before the border. “From 1 January 2021 you will not be able to bring POAO (products of an animal origin) such as those containing meat or dairy (eg a ham and cheese sandwich) into the EU.”

Quote is about 1/3 way down on this page.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/transporting-goods-between-great-britain-and-the-eu-from-1-january-2021-guidance-for-hauliers

Then I think someone is getting this wrong. :-) It should perhaps be noted that the government guidance linked above is entitled "Transporting goods between Great Britain and the EU: guidance for hauliers and commercial drivers". Motorhomes are not, generally "transporting goods", and are not generally driven by "hauliers or commercial drivers", so I think this guidance is not intended for, or relevant to, motorhomers.

 

The following is copied directly from:

 

"COMMISSION DELEGATED REGULATION (EU) 2019/2122, of 10 October 2019

supplementing Regulation (EU) 2017/625 of the European Parliament and of the Council as regards certain categories of animals and goods exempted from official controls at border control posts, specific controls on passengers’ personal luggage and on small consignments of goods sent to natural persons which are not intended to be placed on the market and amending Commission Regulation (EU) No 142/2011"

 

which is the latest, amended, version of the source document referenced in the above link. Confusingly, the linked EU Commission document itself appears (except for the reference to COMMISSION DELEGATED REGULATION (EU) 2019/2122), to be largely out of date.

 

Article 6 of the above regulation states, as previously reproduced above:

 

"Article 6

 

Products of animal origin and composite products on board means of transport operating internationally which are not unloaded and are intended for consumption by the crew and passengers Although not specifically defined, I would interpret a motorhome travelling from UK to Europe as falling within the definition of "means of transport operating internationally".

 

1.Products of animal origin and composite products are exempted from official controls at border control posts provided that:

(a) they are intended for consumption by the crew and passengers on board means of transport operating internationally; and

(b) they are not unloaded on Union territory.

 

2.Direct transfer of goods referred to in paragraph 1 unloaded at a port from one means of transport operating internationally to another means of transport operating internationally is exempted from official controls at border control posts provided that:

(a) it takes place in accordance with the agreement of the competent authority of the border control post; and

(b) it takes place under customs supervision.

 

3.The operator responsible for the goods referred to in paragraph 1 shall request the agreement referred to in paragraph 2(a) prior to the transfer of these goods from one means of transport operating internationally to another means of transport operating internationally."

 

Paragraphs 2 and 3 are clearly not relevant to food in motorhomes for personal consumption.

[colin]

Good luck with arguing that at Calais, I guess we will have to wait a few weeks until we find out.

[Brian Kirby]

malc d - 2020-12-29 9:12 PM

Basil - 2020-12-29 8:57 PM

Not sure if I read this correctly but if I do then I am not sure that the aforesaid applies when reading the relevant legal document as referred to in the link above

EUR LEX Document 32019R2122

This suggests to me that if you are consuming it yourself and you don't exceed the limits there is no problem.

Bas

You could be right , but this document may only refer to movements between EU countries . (?)

Just on the above point, I think not. If anyone is interested enough to download and read the actual regulation from the EU website, as amended on 10 October 2019 (here: https://tinyurl.com/ybcpedoy ), and refer to paragraphs 3 and 7 in particular, I think they will see that the border in question is the external border of the EU, and not any internal border.

 

Other documents that have been referenced by various posters above either purport to be summaries of the legislation but are out of date with the actual, amended, regulation, or are a UK government publication that I'm fairly convinced is irrelevant to the above regulation because it is aimed at hauliers and commercial drivers. (I think this erroneously omits mention of food supplies for personal consumption, which appear to me relevant to the needs of the driver/co-driver of any such vehicle as set out in the EU regulation).

 

It should also be remembered that the EU regulation relates to travel into the EU, over which the EU, and not the UK government, has jurisdiction. Going in, EU legislation rules, entering the UK, UK legislation rules.

[colin]

Brian Kirby - 2021-01-04 11:12 AM

 

(I think this erroneously omits mention of food supplies for personal consumption, which appear to me relevant to the needs of the driver/co-driver of any such vehicle as set out in the EU regulation).

If I'm reading your post correctly, you are missing this from the link I gave.

 

Drivers travelling to the EU should be aware of additional restrictions to personal imports taking effect from 1 January 2021. If you are carrying prohibited items in your luggage, vehicle or person you will need to use, consume, or dispose of them at or before the border.

 

From 1 January 2021 you will not be able to bring POAO (products of an animal origin) such as those containing meat or dairy (e.g. a ham and cheese sandwich) into the EU. There are exceptions to this rule for certain quantities of powdered infant milk, infant food, special foods, or special processed pet feed.

[Brian Kirby]

colin - 2021-01-04 11:20 AM

Brian Kirby - 2021-01-04 11:12 AM

(I think this erroneously omits mention of food supplies for personal consumption, which appear to me relevant to the needs of the driver/co-driver of any such vehicle as set out in the EU regulation).

If I'm reading your post correctly, you are missing this from the link I gave.

Drivers travelling to the EU should be aware of additional restrictions to personal imports taking effect from 1 January 2021. If you are carrying prohibited items in your luggage, vehicle or person you will need to use, consume, or dispose of them at or before the border.

From 1 January 2021 you will not be able to bring POAO (products of an animal origin) such as those containing meat or dairy (e.g. a ham and cheese sandwich) into the EU. There are exceptions to this rule for certain quantities of powdered infant milk, infant food, special foods, or special processed pet feed.

I don't think so Colin, and I am taking into account what "TRANSPORTING GOODS BETWEEN GREAT BRITAIN AND THE EU FROM 1 JANUARY 2021: GUIDANCE FOR HAULIERS AND COMMERCIAL DRIVERS" says, as you quote above - plus what the "European Commission guidance", as linked on p22 of the UK government guidance, also says.

 

The problem arises because if you follow the link to the EU Commission document, you will see that although it is undated, it refers back to the 2001 Foot and Mouth outbreak, but contains a further link (first line of the second paragraph) to https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32019R2122 which is the amended "COMMISSION DELEGATED REGULATION (EU) 2019/2122, of 10 October 2019, from which I have quoted above, and which says the exact opposite!

 

I think the linked EU Commission document is now substantially out of date, and that the UK government has linked to it instead of to the actual, later, October 2019, regulation. On the evidence, that is the only conclusion I can reach. Have a look, and see what you think.

[colin]

Well I've had a look and find this.

 

(4)

 

Exemptions from official controls at border control posts for products which form part of travellers’ personal luggage, for products for consumption by the crew and passengers on board means of transport operating internationally, and for products sent as small consignments to private persons already exist under Council Directive 97/78/EC (2). For the sake of legal clarity and in order to ensure a consistent application of those exemptions given that Directive 97/78/EC is repealed with effect from 14 December 2019, it is appropriate to lay down provisions on such exemptions in this Regulation. Those exemptions concern certain categories of animals and goods which, although they enter the Union, are not to be placed on the market.

 

[Robinhood]

As is often the case with EU (and other) regulations, the document you link to, Brian, has some rather convoluted text in it.

 

Nonetheless, I would, after going round in circles a few times, interpret it that "animal based/origin" products are largely banned, whether for personal use or not.

 

The document prescribes the posting, at entry points, of at least one of a number of informatory posters, in at least one of the EU official languages. The English version of the posters required are illustrated towards the bottom of the same document, and are somewhat more succinct about the rules.

 

(it may be that the UK may end up as one of the "trusty" third parties, like Iceland or Andorra, but as yet, I think the rules will (at least officially) apply)..

[gassygassy]

All I can add to the thread, which seems to be longer than an EU regulation ( 8-) ) is that I would absolutely LOVE to be able to arrive at French customs in my motorhome and surrender any foodstuffs they wanted.

[Brian Kirby]

colin - 2021-01-04 1:18 PM

Well I've had a look and find this.

(4) Exemptions from official controls at border control posts for products which form part of travellers’ personal luggage, for products for consumption by the crew and passengers on board means of transport operating internationally, and for products sent as small consignments to private persons already exist under Council Directive 97/78/EC (2). For the sake of legal clarity and in order to ensure a consistent application of those exemptions given that Directive 97/78/EC is repealed with effect from 14 December 2019, it is appropriate to lay down provisions on such exemptions in this Regulation. Those exemptions concern certain categories of animals and goods which, although they enter the Union, are not to be placed on the market.

And for Bob (Robinhood) also - which then seems to me, logically, to take us to Article 6 of COMMISSION DELEGATED REGULATION (EU) 2019/2122, which states "1.Products of animal origin and composite products are exempted from official controls at border control posts provided that:

(a) they are intended for consumption by the crew and passengers on board means of transport operating internationally; and

(b) they are not unloaded on Union territory."

 

Which, as above, seems to be the category within which such products carried in a motorhome entering the EU from a third country (i.e. the UK) should fall. Having said which, it could be made far clearer how the Article 6 exemptions are intended to be applied vis a vis Article 7.

 

Article 6 , as (4) above, appears to have no further conditions, only that they be "Products of animal origin and composite products ......................that they are intended for consumption by the crew and passengers on board means of transport operating internationally; and .....are not unloaded on Union territory." For some reason this seems to place them in a different category to "Products of animal origin, composite products, products derived from animal by-products, plants, plant products and other objects which form part of passengers’ personal luggage and which are intended for personal consumption or use" which have what appear to me significantly more stringent conditions attached.

 

"On board means of transport operating internationally" vs "part of travellers’ personal luggage". Very strange! The one seems to be closely similar to the other, yet both are subject to different restrictions.

[Robinhood]

Brian,

 

I interpret Article 6 to apply only to "international transport" involving both crew an passengers. e.g. such transport as operates across the EU borders commercially, and provides catering services as part of that travel, or to service "live-on-board" crew.

 

The most obvious categories (in the UK-EU context) are cross-channel ferries and Eurostar, which would, without the provisions of Article 6 require all of such products to be declared and confiscated at first port of call/border crossing every time the EU border was crossed (inwards).

 

Patently, long-distance international trains elsewhere, and any inward shipping, would be in the same boat (sic).

 

I still think you'll find that, crossing in a motorhome (car, quadricycle or whatever), any such products are going to fall under Article 7 (as personal luggage) and be banned.

[Cattwg]

Being a member of the C&CC, I’ve emailed them and asked for a definitive answer to this vexed question. I don’t expect an immediate reply but when I get it, I’ll post it here.

Perhaps other who are members of the CMC, AA, RAC etc could contact their respective organisations for an answer – and we can see if they all agree!! :-S

Alternatively, a question to an MP might produce an answer.

Cattwg :-D