Bulletguy Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 malc d - 2021-11-25 6:53 PM Bulletguy - 2021-11-24 4:13 PM malc d - 2021-11-24 10:57 AM pelmetman - 2021-11-24 10:34 AM malc d - 2021-11-24 9:47 AM pelmetman - 2021-11-24 8:42 AM p.s.......Do you think I should be bothered what the LOSER brigade think......seeing as they have no respect for Democracy? :-| .......... I respect everyones' right to vote - but I don't have to respect who they vote for. From your daily postings you seem to be EXTREMELY bothered by what your " LOSER brigade " think - Our democracy is no where near perfect, so many people are not satisfied with it. It was reported, a few years ago in a General Election, that UKIP got four million votes - and not one seat in parliament. How democratic is that ? :-| Its a damn sight more democratic than a PR system where all we end up with is fudge system and nothing ever actually gets done *-) ........... The EU is a perfect example of a c*ap PR democracy in action >:-) ............. Their parliament is a toothless talking shop that can only rubber stamp the Fourth Reichs choice of their leader (lol) (lol) (lol) .......... BTW .......You had the chance to change our system a few years ago.......but the Great British public didn't want PR, so thats another of the electorates choices you refuse to accept *-) .......... .... The EU is not a country. Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Holland , Switzerland all use PR. Can you explain why you think their governments are " crap " ? :-| Oooh.......now this will be interesting to see what he comes up with!! (lol)(lol) He's currently searching his encyclopedia of dodges and deflections!!! (lol)(lol) I think Dave has gone quiet on this because: A) He doesn't believe that the EU is not a country. B) He didn't realise that Norway, Sweden , Denmark, Holland and Switzerland all have their own governments. C ) He can't remember why he said all their governments are " CR*P " I will now stand by for a bit of name calling, or maybe one of his hilarious cartoons. (lol) I can virtually guarantee it will be A, B and C!!! :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 Brian Kirby - 2021-11-25 3:58 PM pelmetman - 2021-11-24 7:17 PM.............................................. 1 Nope.......I just ignore your anti Boris Blah blah blah *-) ............ 2 Just as you ignore the FACT that Boris has managed after early mistakes to get the UK in a better position than the EU to cope with this winters COVID surge ;-) .......... 3 Remember when the Squad slagged off Boris for ignoring the science over the 30 day double jab criteria (?) ............ "Scientists also believe Britain's longer dosage gap between vaccines — 12 weeks compared to three weeks on the continent — has afforded Brits longer lasting immunity from jabs." 4 https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10237945/England-suffer-35-000-Covid-hospitalisations-caught-virus-study-suggests.html 1 But you don't, do you? You rush back to reply! So you've even got that wrong! (lol) (lol) 2 That is a contention, not a fact, and it is wrong. Here's a few facts, from your favourite Covid data comparisons website. Despite numerous corrections, you keep mistaking the EU for a country. The EU doesn't do healthcare. The member states do. They are the countries, and just over half have better Covid death rates than the UK. In the case of deaths from Covid per 1M population, the UK now ranks 19th out of the 47 countries within geographical Europe. The 28 countries doing better than the UK are: Ukraine, Spain, Russia, France, Portugal, Greece, Andorra, Liechtenstein, Sweden, Luxembourg; Austria, Estonia, Switzerland, Serbia, Germany, Ireland, Netherlands' Albania, Malta, Monaco, Isle of Man, Channel Islands, Belarus, Denmark, Faeroe Islands, Finland, Norway, and Iceland. You'll have to explain how that record equates to the UK doing better than the EU 27. :-D The 12 EU states doing worse that the UK are Bulgaria, Hungary, Czech Republic, Romania, Croatia, Slovakia, Lithuania, Slovenia, Belgium, Italy, Latvia and Poland. Were the UK still in the EU it would rank 13th, so less than half way up the rankings. In other words, more or less average. Is that your definition of better than? (lol) (lol) (lol) 3 No, I don't, and I didn't. 4 More unicorns!! :-D That is a highly contentious, yet to be peer reviewed, speculative report. It is predicated on everyone in England getting Covid at the same time. You can explain how that is to be arranged - as they haven't! (lol) (lol) (lol) I'm now beginning to understand your definition of "loser" and "winner". It's totally unique, isn't it? (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) 1......Here we go again,,,,,,,answering by numbers .........Do you do everthing by numbers? 8-) ........ 2.......13th if we were part of the EU........But you still ignore the fact that we are being overtaken by EU countries.......Perhaps you should come back in the spring to see just how well your wondeful EU has done........seeing as they're heading into another winter hardly any better prepared than they were 2 years ago *-) ........ 2a........If the EU doesn't do health care........why do they have the EMA? :D ......... 3..........So the Squad didn't slag Boris off for ignoring the science when he went for a 3 month gap instead the 3 weeks??? 8-) ........... 4.........Haven't you LOSERS had enough Unicorns come home to Roost (lol) (lol) (lol) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 malc d - 2021-11-25 6:53 PM Bulletguy - 2021-11-24 4:13 PM malc d - 2021-11-24 10:57 AM pelmetman - 2021-11-24 10:34 AM malc d - 2021-11-24 9:47 AM pelmetman - 2021-11-24 8:42 AM p.s.......Do you think I should be bothered what the LOSER brigade think......seeing as they have no respect for Democracy? :-| .......... I respect everyones' right to vote - but I don't have to respect who they vote for. From your daily postings you seem to be EXTREMELY bothered by what your " LOSER brigade " think - Our democracy is no where near perfect, so many people are not satisfied with it. It was reported, a few years ago in a General Election, that UKIP got four million votes - and not one seat in parliament. How democratic is that ? :-| Its a damn sight more democratic than a PR system where all we end up with is fudge system and nothing ever actually gets done *-) ........... The EU is a perfect example of a c*ap PR democracy in action >:-) ............. Their parliament is a toothless talking shop that can only rubber stamp the Fourth Reichs choice of their leader (lol) (lol) (lol) .......... BTW .......You had the chance to change our system a few years ago.......but the Great British public didn't want PR, so thats another of the electorates choices you refuse to accept *-) .......... .... The EU is not a country. Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Holland , Switzerland all use PR. Can you explain why you think their governments are " crap " ? :-| Oooh.......now this will be interesting to see what he comes up with!! (lol)(lol) He's currently searching his encyclopedia of dodges and deflections!!! (lol)(lol) I think Dave has gone quiet on this because: A) He doesn't believe that the EU is not a country. B) He didn't realise that Norway, Sweden , Denmark, Holland and Switzerland all have their own governments. C ) He can't remember why he said all their governments are " CR*P " I will now stand by for a bit of name calling, or maybe one of his hilarious cartoons. (lol) A........Correct the EU is a Empire of the Fourth Reich ;-) .......... B.........Wrong......they all have their own c*ap PR governments >:-) .......... C........Have any of them elected a government run by a single party?.........I'd google it myself if I could be a*sed but I cant :D ...........Besides you dont seem to have much of a life nowadays Malc, so it'll give you something to do :-> ............ D........No dont thank me (lol) (lol) (lol) ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-11-25 7:53 PM............................. 1......Here we go again,,,,,,,answering by numbers .........Do you do everthing by numbers? 8-) ........ 2.......13th if we were part of the EU........But you still ignore the fact that we are being overtaken by EU countries.......Perhaps you should come back in the spring to see just how well your wondeful EU has done........seeing as they're heading into another winter hardly any better prepared than they were 2 years ago *-) ........ 2a........If the EU doesn't do health care........why do they have the EMA? :D ......... 3..........So the Squad didn't slag Boris off for ignoring the science when he went for a 3 month gap instead the 3 weeks??? 8-) ........... 4.........Haven't you LOSERS had enough Unicorns come home to Roost (lol) (lol) (lol) .......... 1 You made a series of points, so it seems courteous to reply point by point. Numbers make clear which point I'm responding to. What's not to like? :-) 2 No, I don't. That is where the UK sits, whether or not as members of the EU. That is my point, and is, I believe, a fact. Show how we are being overtaken (but what macabre races you do invent) by countries whose infection rates are rising faster than ours? You are right about waiting to see how it all pans out; why don't you take your own advice and do likewise? Why the rush to crow about people dying? 2a We've done this before, as well. :-) The EMA is the EU agency the members of the EU have agreed will approve medicines for use throughout the EU. Individual states can use alternative medicines within their borders if they have national medicines approval agencies and so choose, but those medicines cannot be marketed throughout the EU until they gain MEA approval. 3 I am not a squad. I do not think or answer as a squad. I make my own assessments, based on the best facts I can find, and comment accordingly. 4 You'll have to explain that! Where/what are these unicorns? :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-11-25 8:04 PM malc d - 2021-11-25 6:53 PM Bulletguy - 2021-11-24 4:13 PM malc d - 2021-11-24 10:57 AM pelmetman - 2021-11-24 10:34 AM malc d - 2021-11-24 9:47 AM pelmetman - 2021-11-24 8:42 AM p.s.......Do you think I should be bothered what the LOSER brigade think......seeing as they have no respect for Democracy? :-| .......... I respect everyones' right to vote - but I don't have to respect who they vote for. From your daily postings you seem to be EXTREMELY bothered by what your " LOSER brigade " think - Our democracy is no where near perfect, so many people are not satisfied with it. It was reported, a few years ago in a General Election, that UKIP got four million votes - and not one seat in parliament. How democratic is that ? :-| Its a damn sight more democratic than a PR system where all we end up with is fudge system and nothing ever actually gets done *-) ........... The EU is a perfect example of a c*ap PR democracy in action >:-) ............. Their parliament is a toothless talking shop that can only rubber stamp the Fourth Reichs choice of their leader (lol) (lol) (lol) .......... BTW .......You had the chance to change our system a few years ago.......but the Great British public didn't want PR, so thats another of the electorates choices you refuse to accept *-) .......... .... The EU is not a country. Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Holland , Switzerland all use PR. Can you explain why you think their governments are " crap " ? :-| Oooh.......now this will be interesting to see what he comes up with!! (lol)(lol) He's currently searching his encyclopedia of dodges and deflections!!! (lol)(lol) I think Dave has gone quiet on this because: A) He doesn't believe that the EU is not a country. B) He didn't realise that Norway, Sweden , Denmark, Holland and Switzerland all have their own governments. C ) He can't remember why he said all their governments are " CR*P " I will now stand by for a bit of name calling, or maybe one of his hilarious cartoons. (lol) A........Correct the EU is a Empire of the Fourth Reich ;-) .......... B.........Wrong......they all have their own c*ap PR governments >:-) .......... C........Have any of them elected a government run by a single party?.........I'd google it myself if I could be a*sed but I cant :D ...........Besides you dont seem to have much of a life nowadays Malc, so it'll give you something to do :-> ............ D........No dont thank me (lol) (lol) (lol) ........... A ) So why do you keep talking about them as if they ARE a country ? Why compare them with ANY country ? It doesn't make sense. B) Why do you think they all have cr*p governments ? C) If you prefer governments where a single party is always elected, you should move to Russia. D) I insist on thanking you Dave. The fact that you have resorted to insults indicates that you have, AGAIN, given up the argument. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-11-24 10:34 AM malc d - 2021-11-24 9:47 AM pelmetman - 2021-11-24 8:42 AM p.s.......Do you think I should be bothered what the LOSER brigade think......seeing as they have no respect for Democracy? :-| .......... I respect everyones' right to vote - but I don't have to respect who they vote for. .......................Our democracy is no where near perfect, so many people are not satisfied with it............ :-| Its a damn sight more democratic than a PR system where all we end up with is fudge system and nothing ever actually gets done *-) .......................... ......... I missed this earlier, and I beg to differ. :-) Where is the democracy in which one has, for all intents and purposes, a choice of two parties, both of which produce manifestos filled with ambiguities, from which they progressively disengage as the winds change? Two parties which span largely irreconcilable differences of view across, on the one hand the political right, and on the other, the political left? This is more or less imposed by our first past the post (FTP) voting system. The only other country in Europe that has so crude (though not identical) a voting system is, oddly, France. All the others have some version of PR. One might endlessly debate which PR system is "best", or would best suit the UK, but almost any would provide a more accurate reflection of public opinion than FTP. No government since WW2 has been elected by a majority of the electorate. Our system of electing MPs by FTP, constituency by constituency, assures that the number of seats gained does not reflect the number of votes cast overall. So we get, every time, the government no-one actually wanted, as evidenced by the votes cast for the parties. Look at the last election. Conservative majority: 80 seats. Proportion of votes cast for Conservatives: 43.6%. So a party with only 43.6% of votes cast, on a turnout of 67.4%, gains an unassailable majority. The electorate is 47,074,800. So, 20,524,613 people chose the government, and 26,550,187 didn't. Not that exceptional, except the resulting majority of seats. Our system is oppositional, and wasteful. Whatever policies the governing party adopts, the opposition opposes and then, when they gain power, begins to undo and substitute their preferences. The underlying crudity of the left right split, effectively capital opposed by labour, and vice versa, reflects social divisions that evolved in the middle ages - hardly appropriate to today. The adoption of PR would, as seems the case on the evidence of those using PR, allows smaller parties to gain representation, so that whichever party gains a majority of votes is almost bound to need to form a coalition with at least one other party to gain a working majority of seats. This dilutes the power of extremists and forces policy toward the centre ground, where the electoral majority naturally coalesces. It then becomes possible to settle, and maintain, long term policies that may change in emphasis from election to election, but retain a stable core, to the great benefit of public expenditure. Ultimately, no one party gets all it wanted, but the compromises necessary to gain coalition support generally result in better, more adult, more rounded, more widely acceptable, government - and less waste of public money as policy swings between the extremes after each election. It also allows governments to divide and re-form while in office, unless one party pursues policy objectives too extreme to gain majority support and so forces an election. It can be untidy, but it is, IMO, infinitely more democratic and efficient than FTP can ever be, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 Sorry, I was rushing and cocked up the above numbers, which omit to allow for the 67.4% turnout. The above should read "Proportion of votes cast for Conservatives: 43.6%. So a party with only 43.6% of votes cast, on a turnout of 67.4%, gains an unassailable majority. The electorate is 47,074,800. So, 13,833,589 people chose the government, and 33,241,211 didn't. Not that exceptional, except the resulting majority of seats." Shouldn't rush, should I? :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 Brian Kirby - 2021-11-27 8:26 PM Sorry, I was rushing and cocked up the above numbers, which omit to allow for the 67.4% turnout. The above should read "Proportion of votes cast for Conservatives: 43.6%. So a party with only 43.6% of votes cast, on a turnout of 67.4%, gains an unassailable majority. The electorate is 47,074,800. So, 13,833,589 people chose the government, and 33,241,211 didn't. Not that exceptional, except the resulting majority of seats." Shouldn't rush, should I? :-D So why are you bitching about us folk who could be bothered to vote ;-) ............ Oh yeah we voted for Boris didn't we (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 malc d - 2021-11-26 1:51 PM pelmetman - 2021-11-25 8:04 PM malc d - 2021-11-25 6:53 PM Bulletguy - 2021-11-24 4:13 PM malc d - 2021-11-24 10:57 AM pelmetman - 2021-11-24 10:34 AM malc d - 2021-11-24 9:47 AM pelmetman - 2021-11-24 8:42 AM p.s.......Do you think I should be bothered what the LOSER brigade think......seeing as they have no respect for Democracy? :-| .......... I respect everyones' right to vote - but I don't have to respect who they vote for. From your daily postings you seem to be EXTREMELY bothered by what your " LOSER brigade " think - Our democracy is no where near perfect, so many people are not satisfied with it. It was reported, a few years ago in a General Election, that UKIP got four million votes - and not one seat in parliament. How democratic is that ? :-| Its a damn sight more democratic than a PR system where all we end up with is fudge system and nothing ever actually gets done *-) ........... The EU is a perfect example of a c*ap PR democracy in action >:-) ............. Their parliament is a toothless talking shop that can only rubber stamp the Fourth Reichs choice of their leader (lol) (lol) (lol) .......... BTW .......You had the chance to change our system a few years ago.......but the Great British public didn't want PR, so thats another of the electorates choices you refuse to accept *-) .......... .... The EU is not a country. Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Holland , Switzerland all use PR. Can you explain why you think their governments are " crap " ? :-| Oooh.......now this will be interesting to see what he comes up with!! (lol)(lol) He's currently searching his encyclopedia of dodges and deflections!!! (lol)(lol) I think Dave has gone quiet on this because: A) He doesn't believe that the EU is not a country. B) He didn't realise that Norway, Sweden , Denmark, Holland and Switzerland all have their own governments. C ) He can't remember why he said all their governments are " CR*P " I will now stand by for a bit of name calling, or maybe one of his hilarious cartoons. (lol) A........Correct the EU is a Empire of the Fourth Reich ;-) .......... B.........Wrong......they all have their own c*ap PR governments >:-) .......... C........Have any of them elected a government run by a single party?.........I'd google it myself if I could be a*sed but I cant :D ...........Besides you dont seem to have much of a life nowadays Malc, so it'll give you something to do :-> ............ D........No dont thank me (lol) (lol) (lol) ........... A ) So why do you keep talking about them as if they ARE a country ? Why compare them with ANY country ? It doesn't make sense. B) Why do you think they all have cr*p governments ? C) If you prefer governments where a single party is always elected, you should move to Russia. D) I insist on thanking you Dave. The fact that you have resorted to insults indicates that you have, AGAIN, given up the argument. :-| Insults? :-S ...............I can assure you Malc I haven't intentionally insulted you ;-) ......... I may have skirted with a bit of low brow condesension in return for your middle class edjermercated condescension :D ......... I don't bother resorting to my insults locker as I suspect the forums mods would have a meltdown >:-) .......... I'll save those for use in public should anyone on here bother to bother me on a campsite B-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-11-27 8:50 PM malc d - 2021-11-26 1:51 PM pelmetman - 2021-11-25 8:04 PM malc d - 2021-11-25 6:53 PM Bulletguy - 2021-11-24 4:13 PM malc d - 2021-11-24 10:57 AM pelmetman - 2021-11-24 10:34 AM malc d - 2021-11-24 9:47 AM pelmetman - 2021-11-24 8:42 AM p.s.......Do you think I should be bothered what the LOSER brigade think......seeing as they have no respect for Democracy? :-| .......... I respect everyones' right to vote - but I don't have to respect who they vote for. From your daily postings you seem to be EXTREMELY bothered by what your " LOSER brigade " think - Our democracy is no where near perfect, so many people are not satisfied with it. It was reported, a few years ago in a General Election, that UKIP got four million votes - and not one seat in parliament. How democratic is that ? :-| Its a damn sight more democratic than a PR system where all we end up with is fudge system and nothing ever actually gets done *-) ........... The EU is a perfect example of a c*ap PR democracy in action >:-) ............. Their parliament is a toothless talking shop that can only rubber stamp the Fourth Reichs choice of their leader (lol) (lol) (lol) .......... BTW .......You had the chance to change our system a few years ago.......but the Great British public didn't want PR, so thats another of the electorates choices you refuse to accept *-) .......... .... The EU is not a country. Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Holland , Switzerland all use PR. Can you explain why you think their governments are " crap " ? :-| Oooh.......now this will be interesting to see what he comes up with!! (lol)(lol) He's currently searching his encyclopedia of dodges and deflections!!! (lol)(lol) I think Dave has gone quiet on this because: A) He doesn't believe that the EU is not a country. B) He didn't realise that Norway, Sweden , Denmark, Holland and Switzerland all have their own governments. C ) He can't remember why he said all their governments are " CR*P " I will now stand by for a bit of name calling, or maybe one of his hilarious cartoons. (lol) A........Correct the EU is a Empire of the Fourth Reich ;-) .......... B.........Wrong......they all have their own c*ap PR governments >:-) .......... C........Have any of them elected a government run by a single party?.........I'd google it myself if I could be a*sed but I cant :D ...........Besides you dont seem to have much of a life nowadays Malc, so it'll give you something to do :-> ............ D........No dont thank me (lol) (lol) (lol) ........... A ) So why do you keep talking about them as if they ARE a country ? Why compare them with ANY country ? It doesn't make sense. B) Why do you think they all have cr*p governments ? C) If you prefer governments where a single party is always elected, you should move to Russia. D) I insist on thanking you Dave. The fact that you have resorted to insults indicates that you have, AGAIN, given up the argument. :-| Insults? :-S ...............I can assure you Malc I haven't intentionally insulted you ;-) ......... I may have skirted with a bit of low brow condesension in return for your middle class edjermercated condescension :D ......... I don't bother resorting to my insults locker as I suspect the forums mods would have a meltdown >:-) .......... I'll save those for use in public should anyone on here bother to bother me on a campsite B-) ........ Nice try Dave - - but I would still like you to explain why you think that Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Holland and Switzerland have CR*P governments. Where did they go wrong ? ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 malc d - 2021-11-27 9:11 PM pelmetman - 2021-11-27 8:50 PM malc d - 2021-11-26 1:51 PM pelmetman - 2021-11-25 8:04 PM malc d - 2021-11-25 6:53 PM Bulletguy - 2021-11-24 4:13 PM malc d - 2021-11-24 10:57 AM pelmetman - 2021-11-24 10:34 AM malc d - 2021-11-24 9:47 AM pelmetman - 2021-11-24 8:42 AM p.s.......Do you think I should be bothered what the LOSER brigade think......seeing as they have no respect for Democracy? :-| .......... I respect everyones' right to vote - but I don't have to respect who they vote for. From your daily postings you seem to be EXTREMELY bothered by what your " LOSER brigade " think - Our democracy is no where near perfect, so many people are not satisfied with it. It was reported, a few years ago in a General Election, that UKIP got four million votes - and not one seat in parliament. How democratic is that ? :-| Its a damn sight more democratic than a PR system where all we end up with is fudge system and nothing ever actually gets done *-) ........... The EU is a perfect example of a c*ap PR democracy in action >:-) ............. Their parliament is a toothless talking shop that can only rubber stamp the Fourth Reichs choice of their leader (lol) (lol) (lol) .......... BTW .......You had the chance to change our system a few years ago.......but the Great British public didn't want PR, so thats another of the electorates choices you refuse to accept *-) .......... .... The EU is not a country. Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Holland , Switzerland all use PR. Can you explain why you think their governments are " crap " ? :-| Oooh.......now this will be interesting to see what he comes up with!! (lol)(lol) He's currently searching his encyclopedia of dodges and deflections!!! (lol)(lol) I think Dave has gone quiet on this because: A) He doesn't believe that the EU is not a country. B) He didn't realise that Norway, Sweden , Denmark, Holland and Switzerland all have their own governments. C ) He can't remember why he said all their governments are " CR*P " I will now stand by for a bit of name calling, or maybe one of his hilarious cartoons. (lol) A........Correct the EU is a Empire of the Fourth Reich ;-) .......... B.........Wrong......they all have their own c*ap PR governments >:-) .......... C........Have any of them elected a government run by a single party?.........I'd google it myself if I could be a*sed but I cant :D ...........Besides you dont seem to have much of a life nowadays Malc, so it'll give you something to do :-> ............ D........No dont thank me (lol) (lol) (lol) ........... A ) So why do you keep talking about them as if they ARE a country ? Why compare them with ANY country ? It doesn't make sense. B) Why do you think they all have cr*p governments ? C) If you prefer governments where a single party is always elected, you should move to Russia. D) I insist on thanking you Dave. The fact that you have resorted to insults indicates that you have, AGAIN, given up the argument. :-| Insults? :-S ...............I can assure you Malc I haven't intentionally insulted you ;-) ......... I may have skirted with a bit of low brow condesension in return for your middle class edjermercated condescension :D ......... I don't bother resorting to my insults locker as I suspect the forums mods would have a meltdown >:-) .......... I'll save those for use in public should anyone on here bother to bother me on a campsite B-) ........ Nice try Dave - - but I would still like you to explain why you think that Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Holland and Switzerland have CR*P governments. Where did they go wrong ? ;-) Has it gone right? ;-) .......... Do they not face the same issues as us? :-| ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-11-27 9:27 PM malc d - 2021-11-27 9:11 PM pelmetman - 2021-11-27 8:50 PM malc d - 2021-11-26 1:51 PM pelmetman - 2021-11-25 8:04 PM malc d - 2021-11-25 6:53 PM Bulletguy - 2021-11-24 4:13 PM malc d - 2021-11-24 10:57 AM pelmetman - 2021-11-24 10:34 AM malc d - 2021-11-24 9:47 AM pelmetman - 2021-11-24 8:42 AM p.s.......Do you think I should be bothered what the LOSER brigade think......seeing as they have no respect for Democracy? :-| .......... I respect everyones' right to vote - but I don't have to respect who they vote for. From your daily postings you seem to be EXTREMELY bothered by what your " LOSER brigade " think - Our democracy is no where near perfect, so many people are not satisfied with it. It was reported, a few years ago in a General Election, that UKIP got four million votes - and not one seat in parliament. How democratic is that ? :-| Its a damn sight more democratic than a PR system where all we end up with is fudge system and nothing ever actually gets done *-) ........... The EU is a perfect example of a c*ap PR democracy in action >:-) ............. Their parliament is a toothless talking shop that can only rubber stamp the Fourth Reichs choice of their leader (lol) (lol) (lol) .......... BTW .......You had the chance to change our system a few years ago.......but the Great British public didn't want PR, so thats another of the electorates choices you refuse to accept *-) .......... .... The EU is not a country. Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Holland , Switzerland all use PR. Can you explain why you think their governments are " crap " ? :-| Oooh.......now this will be interesting to see what he comes up with!! (lol)(lol) He's currently searching his encyclopedia of dodges and deflections!!! (lol)(lol) I think Dave has gone quiet on this because: A) He doesn't believe that the EU is not a country. B) He didn't realise that Norway, Sweden , Denmark, Holland and Switzerland all have their own governments. C ) He can't remember why he said all their governments are " CR*P " I will now stand by for a bit of name calling, or maybe one of his hilarious cartoons. (lol) A........Correct the EU is a Empire of the Fourth Reich ;-) .......... B.........Wrong......they all have their own c*ap PR governments >:-) .......... C........Have any of them elected a government run by a single party?.........I'd google it myself if I could be a*sed but I cant :D ...........Besides you dont seem to have much of a life nowadays Malc, so it'll give you something to do :-> ............ D........No dont thank me (lol) (lol) (lol) ........... A ) So why do you keep talking about them as if they ARE a country ? Why compare them with ANY country ? It doesn't make sense. B) Why do you think they all have cr*p governments ? C) If you prefer governments where a single party is always elected, you should move to Russia. D) I insist on thanking you Dave. The fact that you have resorted to insults indicates that you have, AGAIN, given up the argument. :-| Insults? :-S ...............I can assure you Malc I haven't intentionally insulted you ;-) ......... I may have skirted with a bit of low brow condesension in return for your middle class edjermercated condescension :D ......... I don't bother resorting to my insults locker as I suspect the forums mods would have a meltdown >:-) .......... I'll save those for use in public should anyone on here bother to bother me on a campsite B-) ........ Nice try Dave - - but I would still like you to explain why you think that Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Holland and Switzerland have CR*P governments. Where did they go wrong ? ;-) Has it gone right? ;-) .......... Do they not face the same issues as us? :-| ........... I see. Your argument is that countries governed by PR as just as CR*P as ours. You may be right. I've never lived in any of them so I don't know. But in polls of the countries with the best quality of life, they do, all, normally come out ahead of us. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-11-27 9:27 PM malc d - 2021-11-27 9:11 PM Nice try Dave - - but I would still like you to explain why you think that Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Holland and Switzerland have CR*P governments. Where did they go wrong ? ;-) 1) Has it gone right? ;-) .......... 2) Do they not face the same issues as us? :-| ........... 1) Yes. 2) No. Now answer Malcs question sensibly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 malc d - 2021-11-27 10:06 PM pelmetman - 2021-11-27 9:27 PM malc d - 2021-11-27 9:11 PM pelmetman - 2021-11-27 8:50 PM malc d - 2021-11-26 1:51 PM pelmetman - 2021-11-25 8:04 PM malc d - 2021-11-25 6:53 PM Bulletguy - 2021-11-24 4:13 PM malc d - 2021-11-24 10:57 AM pelmetman - 2021-11-24 10:34 AM malc d - 2021-11-24 9:47 AM pelmetman - 2021-11-24 8:42 AM p.s.......Do you think I should be bothered what the LOSER brigade think......seeing as they have no respect for Democracy? :-| .......... I respect everyones' right to vote - but I don't have to respect who they vote for. From your daily postings you seem to be EXTREMELY bothered by what your " LOSER brigade " think - Our democracy is no where near perfect, so many people are not satisfied with it. It was reported, a few years ago in a General Election, that UKIP got four million votes - and not one seat in parliament. How democratic is that ? :-| Its a damn sight more democratic than a PR system where all we end up with is fudge system and nothing ever actually gets done *-) ........... The EU is a perfect example of a c*ap PR democracy in action >:-) ............. Their parliament is a toothless talking shop that can only rubber stamp the Fourth Reichs choice of their leader (lol) (lol) (lol) .......... BTW .......You had the chance to change our system a few years ago.......but the Great British public didn't want PR, so thats another of the electorates choices you refuse to accept *-) .......... .... The EU is not a country. Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Holland , Switzerland all use PR. Can you explain why you think their governments are " crap " ? :-| Oooh.......now this will be interesting to see what he comes up with!! (lol)(lol) He's currently searching his encyclopedia of dodges and deflections!!! (lol)(lol) I think Dave has gone quiet on this because: A) He doesn't believe that the EU is not a country. B) He didn't realise that Norway, Sweden , Denmark, Holland and Switzerland all have their own governments. C ) He can't remember why he said all their governments are " CR*P " I will now stand by for a bit of name calling, or maybe one of his hilarious cartoons. (lol) A........Correct the EU is a Empire of the Fourth Reich ;-) .......... B.........Wrong......they all have their own c*ap PR governments >:-) .......... C........Have any of them elected a government run by a single party?.........I'd google it myself if I could be a*sed but I cant :D ...........Besides you dont seem to have much of a life nowadays Malc, so it'll give you something to do :-> ............ D........No dont thank me (lol) (lol) (lol) ........... A ) So why do you keep talking about them as if they ARE a country ? Why compare them with ANY country ? It doesn't make sense. B) Why do you think they all have cr*p governments ? C) If you prefer governments where a single party is always elected, you should move to Russia. D) I insist on thanking you Dave. The fact that you have resorted to insults indicates that you have, AGAIN, given up the argument. :-| Insults? :-S ...............I can assure you Malc I haven't intentionally insulted you ;-) ......... I may have skirted with a bit of low brow condesension in return for your middle class edjermercated condescension :D ......... I don't bother resorting to my insults locker as I suspect the forums mods would have a meltdown >:-) .......... I'll save those for use in public should anyone on here bother to bother me on a campsite B-) ........ Nice try Dave - - but I would still like you to explain why you think that Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Holland and Switzerland have CR*P governments. Where did they go wrong ? ;-) Has it gone right? ;-) .......... Do they not face the same issues as us? :-| ........... I see. Your argument is that countries governed by PR as just as CR*P as ours. You may be right. I've never lived in any of them so I don't know. But in polls of the countries with the best quality of life, they do, all, normally come out ahead of us. :-| Planet Pinocchio thinks they are "crap" purely for no other reason than they are foreign and not Ingerleesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 malc d - 2021-11-27 10:06 PM pelmetman - 2021-11-27 9:27 PM malc d - 2021-11-27 9:11 PM pelmetman - 2021-11-27 8:50 PM malc d - 2021-11-26 1:51 PM pelmetman - 2021-11-25 8:04 PM malc d - 2021-11-25 6:53 PM Bulletguy - 2021-11-24 4:13 PM malc d - 2021-11-24 10:57 AM pelmetman - 2021-11-24 10:34 AM malc d - 2021-11-24 9:47 AM pelmetman - 2021-11-24 8:42 AM p.s.......Do you think I should be bothered what the LOSER brigade think......seeing as they have no respect for Democracy? :-| .......... I respect everyones' right to vote - but I don't have to respect who they vote for. From your daily postings you seem to be EXTREMELY bothered by what your " LOSER brigade " think - Our democracy is no where near perfect, so many people are not satisfied with it. It was reported, a few years ago in a General Election, that UKIP got four million votes - and not one seat in parliament. How democratic is that ? :-| Its a damn sight more democratic than a PR system where all we end up with is fudge system and nothing ever actually gets done *-) ........... The EU is a perfect example of a c*ap PR democracy in action >:-) ............. Their parliament is a toothless talking shop that can only rubber stamp the Fourth Reichs choice of their leader (lol) (lol) (lol) .......... BTW .......You had the chance to change our system a few years ago.......but the Great British public didn't want PR, so thats another of the electorates choices you refuse to accept *-) .......... .... The EU is not a country. Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Holland , Switzerland all use PR. Can you explain why you think their governments are " crap " ? :-| Oooh.......now this will be interesting to see what he comes up with!! (lol)(lol) He's currently searching his encyclopedia of dodges and deflections!!! (lol)(lol) I think Dave has gone quiet on this because: A) He doesn't believe that the EU is not a country. B) He didn't realise that Norway, Sweden , Denmark, Holland and Switzerland all have their own governments. C ) He can't remember why he said all their governments are " CR*P " I will now stand by for a bit of name calling, or maybe one of his hilarious cartoons. (lol) A........Correct the EU is a Empire of the Fourth Reich ;-) .......... B.........Wrong......they all have their own c*ap PR governments >:-) .......... C........Have any of them elected a government run by a single party?.........I'd google it myself if I could be a*sed but I cant :D ...........Besides you dont seem to have much of a life nowadays Malc, so it'll give you something to do :-> ............ D........No dont thank me (lol) (lol) (lol) ........... A ) So why do you keep talking about them as if they ARE a country ? Why compare them with ANY country ? It doesn't make sense. B) Why do you think they all have cr*p governments ? C) If you prefer governments where a single party is always elected, you should move to Russia. D) I insist on thanking you Dave. The fact that you have resorted to insults indicates that you have, AGAIN, given up the argument. :-| Insults? :-S ...............I can assure you Malc I haven't intentionally insulted you ;-) ......... I may have skirted with a bit of low brow condesension in return for your middle class edjermercated condescension :D ......... I don't bother resorting to my insults locker as I suspect the forums mods would have a meltdown >:-) .......... I'll save those for use in public should anyone on here bother to bother me on a campsite B-) ........ Nice try Dave - - but I would still like you to explain why you think that Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Holland and Switzerland have CR*P governments. Where did they go wrong ? ;-) Has it gone right? ;-) .......... Do they not face the same issues as us? :-| ........... I see. Your argument is that countries governed by PR as just as CR*P as ours. You may be right. I've never lived in any of them so I don't know. But in polls of the countries with the best quality of life, they do, all, normally come out ahead of us. :-| Aaaah normally :D ...........Life is no longer normal Malc ;-) ......... The world has been in a state of flux for sometime......(low brow insult warning)......... Please don't read any further Malc...... I'm somewhat surprised you hadn't noticed :-| ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-11-27 10:56 PM malc d - 2021-11-27 10:06 PM pelmetman - 2021-11-27 9:27 PM malc d - 2021-11-27 9:11 PM pelmetman - 2021-11-27 8:50 PM malc d - 2021-11-26 1:51 PM pelmetman - 2021-11-25 8:04 PM malc d - 2021-11-25 6:53 PM Bulletguy - 2021-11-24 4:13 PM malc d - 2021-11-24 10:57 AM pelmetman - 2021-11-24 10:34 AM malc d - 2021-11-24 9:47 AM pelmetman - 2021-11-24 8:42 AM p.s.......Do you think I should be bothered what the LOSER brigade think......seeing as they have no respect for Democracy? :-| .......... I respect everyones' right to vote - but I don't have to respect who they vote for. From your daily postings you seem to be EXTREMELY bothered by what your " LOSER brigade " think - Our democracy is no where near perfect, so many people are not satisfied with it. It was reported, a few years ago in a General Election, that UKIP got four million votes - and not one seat in parliament. How democratic is that ? :-| Its a damn sight more democratic than a PR system where all we end up with is fudge system and nothing ever actually gets done *-) ........... The EU is a perfect example of a c*ap PR democracy in action >:-) ............. Their parliament is a toothless talking shop that can only rubber stamp the Fourth Reichs choice of their leader (lol) (lol) (lol) .......... BTW .......You had the chance to change our system a few years ago.......but the Great British public didn't want PR, so thats another of the electorates choices you refuse to accept *-) .......... .... The EU is not a country. Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Holland , Switzerland all use PR. Can you explain why you think their governments are " crap " ? :-| Oooh.......now this will be interesting to see what he comes up with!! (lol)(lol) He's currently searching his encyclopedia of dodges and deflections!!! (lol)(lol) I think Dave has gone quiet on this because: A) He doesn't believe that the EU is not a country. B) He didn't realise that Norway, Sweden , Denmark, Holland and Switzerland all have their own governments. C ) He can't remember why he said all their governments are " CR*P " I will now stand by for a bit of name calling, or maybe one of his hilarious cartoons. (lol) A........Correct the EU is a Empire of the Fourth Reich ;-) .......... B.........Wrong......they all have their own c*ap PR governments >:-) .......... C........Have any of them elected a government run by a single party?.........I'd google it myself if I could be a*sed but I cant :D ...........Besides you dont seem to have much of a life nowadays Malc, so it'll give you something to do :-> ............ D........No dont thank me (lol) (lol) (lol) ........... A ) So why do you keep talking about them as if they ARE a country ? Why compare them with ANY country ? It doesn't make sense. B) Why do you think they all have cr*p governments ? C) If you prefer governments where a single party is always elected, you should move to Russia. D) I insist on thanking you Dave. The fact that you have resorted to insults indicates that you have, AGAIN, given up the argument. :-| Insults? :-S ...............I can assure you Malc I haven't intentionally insulted you ;-) ......... I may have skirted with a bit of low brow condesension in return for your middle class edjermercated condescension :D ......... I don't bother resorting to my insults locker as I suspect the forums mods would have a meltdown >:-) .......... I'll save those for use in public should anyone on here bother to bother me on a campsite B-) ........ Nice try Dave - - but I would still like you to explain why you think that Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Holland and Switzerland have CR*P governments. Where did they go wrong ? ;-) Has it gone right? ;-) .......... Do they not face the same issues as us? :-| ........... I see. Your argument is that countries governed by PR as just as CR*P as ours. You may be right. I've never lived in any of them so I don't know. But in polls of the countries with the best quality of life, they do, all, normally come out ahead of us. :-| Aaaah normally :D ...........Life is no longer normal Malc ;-) ......... The world has been in a state of flux for sometime......(low brow insult warning)......... Please don't read any further Malc...... I'm somewhat surprised you hadn't noticed :-| ........ Good. So at least you agree that the PR run countries normally have a better quality of life than we do. I have noticed that the world is in a state of ' flux ' in recent times. Trump recently in charge in the USA - Johnson in charge in the UK.- running their countries on social media ! The government warn us that climate change could mean food shortages, and are covering our farmland in houses. Half the world striving for " growth " - while the other half are trying to save the planet. Things don't look good. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 malc d - 2021-11-28 10:13 AM Trump recently in charge in the USA - Johnson in charge in the UK.- running their countries on social media ! Yes but there is a big difference. Trump was running the world's most powerful country, so people had to listen and take notice of him. Wheras mini-Trump has made Britain so insignificant, that today he is not even invited to a meeting to discuss our own border. Which shows how important Britain is to the EU now. They are discussing our border today without us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 malc d - 2021-11-28 10:13 AM The government warn us that climate change could mean food shortages, and are covering our farmland in houses. I'm very comfortably housed, but I wish they were building houses for those who need them. They need houses more than Golf Courses, Wild Bird Habitat etc. Or Her Majesty's back garden in one of her holiday homes up here which alone is bigger than Greater Manchester. I happened to stray into it once and was accosted by her gun-toting thugs. I have never felt so intimidated in all my life 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 John52 - 2021-11-28 10:57 AM malc d - 2021-11-28 10:13 AM Trump recently in charge in the USA - Johnson in charge in the UK.- running their countries on social media ! Yes but there is a big difference. Trump was running the world's most powerful country, so people had to listen and take notice of him. Wheras mini-Trump has made Britain so insignificant, that today he is not even invited to a meeting to discuss our own border. Which shows how important Britain is to the EU now. They are discussing our border today without us! Johnson would have been invited but he blew it in the most crass display of trashing diplomacy by publishing a private letter on Twitter posturing and grandstanding as a Colonial master which undoubtedly impressed his fans like Pinocchio, but not the French whose President rightly gave a sharp rebuke to class clown Johnson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-11-27 8:37 PM Brian Kirby - 2021-11-27 8:26 PM Sorry, I was rushing and cocked up the above numbers, which omit to allow for the 67.4% turnout. The above should read "Proportion of votes cast for Conservatives: 43.6%. So a party with only 43.6% of votes cast, on a turnout of 67.4%, gains an unassailable majority. The electorate is 47,074,800. So, 13,833,589 people chose the government, and 33,241,211 didn't. Not that exceptional, except the resulting majority of seats." Shouldn't rush, should I? :-D 1 So why are you bitching about us folk who could be bothered to vote ;-) ............ 2 Oh yeah we voted for Boris didn't we (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... 1 No, pointing out that under FTP, the Conservatives gained an 80 seat majority on the votes of 30% of the electorate (note, electorate, not population). So 70% of the electorate did not vote Conservative. The only reason you think that democratic is because your boy won. Had Starmer won, I wonder if you'd have been so happy to accept the outcome? 2 So I understand. But Boris is a completely different issue. The issue is the way FTP distorts the results of elections. Boris is just a national humiliation. It is his majority that results from our strange electoral system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 Brian Kirby - 2021-11-28 7:41 PM pelmetman - 2021-11-27 8:37 PM Brian Kirby - 2021-11-27 8:26 PM Sorry, I was rushing and cocked up the above numbers, which omit to allow for the 67.4% turnout. The above should read "Proportion of votes cast for Conservatives: 43.6%. So a party with only 43.6% of votes cast, on a turnout of 67.4%, gains an unassailable majority. The electorate is 47,074,800. So, 13,833,589 people chose the government, and 33,241,211 didn't. Not that exceptional, except the resulting majority of seats." Shouldn't rush, should I? :-D 1 So why are you bitching about us folk who could be bothered to vote ;-) ............ 2 Oh yeah we voted for Boris didn't we (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... 1 No, pointing out that under FTP, the Conservatives gained an 80 seat majority on the votes of 30% of the electorate (note, electorate, not population). So 70% of the electorate did not vote Conservative. The only reason you think that democratic is because your boy won. Had Starmer won, I wonder if you'd have been so happy to accept the outcome? 2 So I understand. But Boris is a completely different issue. The issue is the way FTP distorts the results of elections. Boris is just a national humiliation. It is his majority that results from our strange electoral system. 1.........So your boy Corbyn lost.......get over it ;-) .......... 2.........A PR system doesn't distort the results? 8-) .......... Its all about distorting the system (lol) (lol) (lol) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-11-29 8:38 AM.......................... 1 So your boy Corbyn lost.......get over it ;-) .......... 2 A PR system doesn't distort the results? 8-) .......... 3 Its all about distorting the system (lol) (lol) (lol) .......... 1 Corbyn never was, is, or will be, my boy, politically or otherwise. 2 That wasn't what I said. Some PR systems are better than others. What they all do, however, is return a parliament that more closely reflects the ways people voted, than FTP ever can. That seems to me the highest object of democracy. Government of the people, by the people, for the people. 3 Too vague. Distorting what system, to whose advantage, to what ends? One party states are almost invariably authoritarian. You have to bear in mind what happens to the supporters of the previous regime, when (if) the regime changes. Look around the world, they are few an far between and, so far as I can see, highly undemocratic. So be careful (and thoughtful) what you wish for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 Brian Kirby - 2021-11-29 10:59 AM pelmetman - 2021-11-29 8:38 AM.......................... 1 So your boy Corbyn lost.......get over it ;-) .......... 2 A PR system doesn't distort the results? 8-) .......... 3 Its all about distorting the system (lol) (lol) (lol) .......... 1 Corbyn never was, is, or will be, my boy, politically or otherwise. You're going to totally confuse Dave now. As far as Dave is concerned, If you don't support Johnson you MUST support Corbyn. He is not aware of any other parties - or any people who won't vote for any of 'em ! ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 malc d - 2021-11-29 11:19 AM Brian Kirby - 2021-11-29 10:59 AM pelmetman - 2021-11-29 8:38 AM.......................... 1 So your boy Corbyn lost.......get over it ;-) .......... 2 A PR system doesn't distort the results? 8-) .......... 3 Its all about distorting the system (lol) (lol) (lol) .......... 1 Corbyn never was, is, or will be, my boy, politically or otherwise. You're going to totally confuse Dave now. As far as Dave is concerned, If you don't support Johnson you MUST support Corbyn. He is not aware of any other parties - or any people who won't vote for any of 'em ! ;-) He's always been confused. He once opened a thread asking the question, "Would you really want Boris as PM?....." to which in his opening post he said, "Looks like he'd sell his Granny if there was a buyer". He was annoyed Johnson was hobnobbing with wealthy foreign investors. Of course this was before his wife inherited her mothers house. ;-) At that time he was a Krackpot Kipper sucking up to Nasty Nigel dreaming of hounding all foreigner folk out of UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 pelmetman - 2021-11-22 10:42 AM Oh dear oh dear *-) .......... The squad clearly hate the thought that Boris and Brexit Blighty might be handling the Pandemic better than their EU heros :-| ......... https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/covid-news-uk-europe-cases-infection-christmas_uk_619b57b3e4b07fe2010de26f?yptr=yahoo What sad misrable LOSERS they are (lol) (lol) (lol) .......... Today was another milestone, we passed 5000 covid deaths this year. Meanwhile Germany only just passed 4500 covid deaths, and France just passed 4000 covid deaths. Why aren't we doing better than them? Could it be we have Boris 'the butcher' Kemal in number 10 who would sacrifice the brave citizens of this fine country just to please the right wing of his party and keep himself in power? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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