Hans Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 My transporter runs on 2.75 kg butane. problems occur at low temp. May i adept a propane alternative bottle to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YorkshireGlobecar Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 Use propane. You will need a new regulator but not expensive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted March 21, 2022 Author Share Posted March 21, 2022 Thank you. I have Two burners Gashob and a trumatic hot water boiler. Are the flex pipes OK to the manifold? The smallest propane bottle i can Get is bp light&.5 KG. But it does not fit my gas locker of the camping gas bottle. I have to rebuilt my gas locker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 Hans, You may be able to fit a Gaslow 2.7 kg refillable cylinder in your existing locker then refill with LPG. https://www.gaslowdirect.com/product/gaslow-2-7kg-refillable-lpg-cylinder-no1-01-4003-67/ Otherwise it looks like you will have to rebuild your locker to take the 5 kg Propane cylinder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayc Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 There are 3.9kg Calor Propane bottles on ebay, market place etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 Is this "2.7kg" the same size/thing as a campingaz 907? Because if it is the little camper' we have just bought only has room for a '907...and a 3.9kg propane bottle we had is huge in comparison! (meaning the van interior would need surgery to make it fit...) The refillable gaslow mentioned above may be the option? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 https://www.keycampers.co.uk/gaslow-27kg-bottle-1-valve6/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 pepe63 - 2022-03-21 3:54 PM Is this "2.7kg" the same size/thing as a campingaz 907? Because if it is the little camper' we have just bought only has room for a '907...and a 3.9kg propane bottle we had is huge in comparison! (meaning the van interior would need surgery to make it fit...) The refillable gaslow mentioned above may be the option? From the Gaslow website Q&A... "2.7kg cylinder The Gaslow 2.7kg Number 1 cylinder carries approx 4.56 litres at 80%. Height: 330mm to the top of the filler elbow x 203mm diameter with a weight of 5.18kg empty." And the Campingaz 907 "Size without cap: 20.3 x 23.5 cm" so need to add regulator, etc which is included with Galsow measurement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 A Gaslow 2.7kg canister's dimensions may allow it to be used as an alternative to a Campingaz 907 bottle, but that depends on the design of the motothome's gas locker. For example, this video relates to a VW "California" camper and the 'bucket type' of gas locker makes it very questionable as to whether a Gaslow bottle would be suitable. I believe Hans owns a VW-based Westfalia Kepler One, but I don't know what sort of storage arrangement there is for the Campingaz 907 bottle that the vehicle is designed for. The Kepler One's gas system has been mentioned here a couple of times https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Gas-in-Spain/51427/ https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/LPG-GAS/53235/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 Hans - 2022-03-21 3:10 PM My transporter runs on 2.75 kg butane. problems occur at low temp. May i adept a propane alternative bottle to it? Hans, if you're using your camper in cold weather to the extent that butane (presumably Camping Gaz) won't reliably gas off, I assume you're also using the heater - in which case you're going to use a lot of gas, be it butane or propane. As it seems you can only carry a single cylinder in the locker, that will also mean many trips to exchange the cylinder. So, I agree with Keith, that a refillable would be a better option, albeit you'd still have to keep visiting filling stations to keep it topped up. Another alternative, if the camper has sufficient ground clearance and under-floor space, might be to have an under-slung gas tank installed, in which case you could significantly increase the amount of gas you can carry, and also reduce the number of visits you must make to filling stations. Might this be a practical solution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 I think Hans's Westfalia Kepler One camper has air-heating via a Webasto diesel-fuelled appliance and water-heating via a 10 litre gas-fuelled Truma boiler. https://www.westfalia-mobil.com/en/news/2021_kepler_one_pv.php Hans currently carries 2 Campingaz 907 2.75kg canisters - one in the gas locker and a second elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 In which case his use of gas will presumably be limited to cooking, and possibly fridge - if not compressor type - so even a small tank would be overkill. Then, the only constraint is finding small propane cylinders and sticking with what he does at present or, if necessary, re-modelling the gas locker to suit larger cylinders. I can't see much benefit from the single re-fillable unless he keeps it continually topped up. As his locker won't take two cylinders, he'd still have to carry a spare as at present (in case the re-fillable ran our while cooking). He needs propane for reasons stated, which, in the absence of sufficiently small propane cylinders, isn't workable. It seems the simplest, in terms of gas availability, is forget refillables, bite the bullet, and enlarge the gas locker. Then, I think it would be wise to enlarge it to the maximum extent physically possible - to take the largest commonly available size of propane cylinder that can be accommodated - and continue carrying a spare elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 Hans - 2022-03-21 3:10 PM My transporter runs on 2.75 kg butane. problems occur at low temp. May i adept a propane alternative bottle to it? Hi I am just wondering if it would be possible to improve things by lagging the bottle and pipework? (it may be worth a try before you start chopping the gas locker about? :-D ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 Another possibility might be to duct warm air from the diesel-fuelled heater into the gas locker. This is a method suggested for motorhomes using French autogas that can have a high butane content and there used to be a commercially available 'glove' arrangement that encircled the base of a gas canister., (Or the Campingaz bottles could be gravity-filled with liquid propane...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laimeduck Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 We used camping gaz in our caravan when we went skiing in the Aravis area of the Alps. I made a polystyrene box for the cylinder in the gas locker which had a old tobacco tin in the base in which I wired a sidelight bulb to run off the leisure battery. Also a simple switch into the habitation area. 15 mins in the morning was sufficient to get enough temperature into the gas cylinder for it to work well enough for the cooker. Often well below 0 temperatures overnight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 Derek Uzzell - 2022-03-23 1:19 PM (Or the Campingaz bottles could be gravity-filled with liquid propane...) I tried that and it took forever - until I cooled the 907 Campingaz cylinder in the freezer first - then it does the job in the time it takes to have a fag ;-) But seriously, you need to be very careful. Do it outside, and weigh the cylinder to make sure you are not overfilling it - you need a space for expansion. Thats why you need something that doesn't take a long time because you need to be with it to make sure its not being overfilled - Remember propane is lighter than butane so you must not fill it to the same weight as butane or you will not have the same space for expansion. If you are putting propane in butane cylinders you need to be sure the cylinder will take the higher pressure. Test pressure is generally stamped on an unstressed part of the cylinder - in the case of 907 cylinders around the base. Mine are stamped 30 bar - which is about 6 times the vapour pressure of propane so no worries there. I use the 907 cylinders with a gas ring screwed directly in the top - works a treat, and is probably the safest gas installation you can have because there are no pipes or valves to leak - just a tap between the cylinder and the gas ring. If you are going to use it on any other installation the problem you will have is the Camping gaz pressure regulator is set for butane - not propane - which needs a higher pressure to get the same size flame. So your stove will give off less heat, but at least it will still work when its freezing. Incidentally I don't think lagging a butane cylinder would help because liquid to vapour absorbs heat - the cylinder will chill itself further? PS:last time I worked it out it cost about £5 to fill a cylinder from a 19kg flogas/calor gas bottle -- instead of £22 for an exchange 907cylinder. When you consider you are using all the gas, not taking any cylinder back with gas still in it, you are saving even more - and you have the convenience of setting off on a trip with a full cylinder every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 This long 2011 forum thread refers https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Gas-cylinder-refilling/25421/ (The "peter" and "Peter James" forum accounts have since been disabled.) Out of curiosity I contacted Coleman (who deal with Campingaz in the UK) and asked if there was anything in the Campingaz terms and conditions, or any UK regulation, that would legally prohibit the 'owner' of a Campingaz bottle from refilling it, instead of exchanging an empty Campingaz bottle for a full one. I did not receive a negative reply, so it's fair to assume that , if anyone with a Campingaz bottle wishes to refill it, there's unlikely to be a legal reason in the UK preventing them from doing so.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 Derek Uzzell - 2022-03-24 8:32 AM "Peter James" forum accounts have since been disabled. I got an email from Daniel to say I had been suspended for 3 months (due to a misunderstanding that got out of hand) But rather than come back as Peter James and give the forum trolls a chance to stir it up again I came back as John52 Derek Uzzell - 2022-03-24 8:32 AM Out of curiosity I contacted Coleman (who deal with Campingaz in the UK) and asked if there was anything in the Campingaz terms and conditions, or any UK regulation, that would legally prohibit the 'owner' of a Campingaz bottle from refilling it, instead of exchanging an empty Campingaz bottle for a full one. I did not receive a negative reply, so it's fair to assume that , if anyone with a Campingaz bottle wishes to refill it, there's unlikely to be a legal reason in the UK preventing them from doing so.) Well I never signed anything when I got my first 907 cylinder, and judging by the price it was 8-) must have been buying the cylinder, rather than renting it. So its mine to do what I like with. Lots of people buy them for camping and either give it up, or move on to caravans/motorhomes where they use bigger cylinders. So lots of second hand cylinders going cheap on places like ebay. Problem is you can't post them so you have to pick them up. Best place is probably car boot sales etc I got a few (with gas in) from the council recycling centre by slipping the guy a few quid. But last time I went he said he couldn't do it anymore because they had started booking them in, and got CCTV. :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted March 27, 2022 Author Share Posted March 27, 2022 Thank you all for the nice tips running whit a 907 butane camping's gas bottle.You will get problems in case the gas hob flames are not full up anymore. In that case myTruma boiler gas BGF 10 does not start up and gives a red light. However butane goes to ice at minus 9 degrees c. Solved It by running the underslung Webasto diesel heater full time. He never stops by its thermostat in the cold wall than. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 A heated canister cover is marketed for small gas canisters and a non-heated cover is available for Campingaz 907 bottles https://tinyurl.com/2jbmxwxz A reasonably competent DIYer could marry the 907 cover with a 12V heater mat (examples here) https://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/automation-control-gear/process-control/heater-pads/ that could warm up the bottle in very cold weather - in fact, the heater mat alone should be sufficient, but the cover would improve insulation. (I'm not sure if there are UK regulations prohibiting a 12V electrical power supply in a motorhome's gas locker. If there are, they having stopped gas-bottle contents-level devices that need 12V power being offered.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted April 1, 2022 Share Posted April 1, 2022 Hans, I think you are not in the UK ? There maybe alternative Propane cylinders available in continental Europe ? other than the Calor Gas cylinders previously mentioned. BUT - a refillable gas tank mounted underneath the van would be a viable alternative and you should be able to increase your gas capacity substantially. The cost of installing an external gas tank could be partially offset by the cost of modification to the van furniture. It would also give you additional internal storage by using the existing gas locker for other purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted April 1, 2022 Author Share Posted April 1, 2022 Thank you Derek. Bought a Ridge Monkey USB Heated Gas Canister cover. Looks like a full Jacket zipped on the bottom. Very Spacy. Whit on-off USB adaptor box. Hopefully the cable is long enough to reach the dual Amp USB connector.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted April 1, 2022 Author Share Posted April 1, 2022 Thank you flicka. you are right about a underslung lpg tank. But i think no space but i will explore further.Not even space for a wheel crank. Spare tyre. This weekend on dog agility freezing temp. Webasto dieselheating survives me. And a loose 5kg propane bottle the smallest i can get does not fit the gas locker. How ever i can get it connect loose in the gang way. The pipes and gas pressure regulator are the same for propane and butane. The boiler works on the two too. But some doubt this on this site. Depending on the gas pressure in the gas tank. Have a nice evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 2, 2022 Share Posted April 2, 2022 Hans - 2022-04-01 5:38 PM Thank you Derek. Bought a Ridge Monkey USB Heated Gas Canister cover. Looks like a full Jacket zipped on the bottom. Very Spacy. Whit on-off USB adaptor box. Hopefully the cable is long enough to reach the dual Amp USB connector.. Hans I assume you are aware that the RidgeMonkey heated cover is NOT designed for use with a Campingaz 907 bottle. https://ridgemonkey.co.uk/product/ecopower-usb-heated-gas-canister-cover The advertising makes it clear that the cover is intended for small 450-500 size resealable gas cartridges that hold under 0.5kg of gas (example here) https://www.coleman.eu/uk/p-26632-c500-performance-gas-cartridge.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witzend Posted April 2, 2022 Share Posted April 2, 2022 would it be possible to get a box fitted to rear door to carry your choice of size gas bottles in I have seen a lot of small vans with this done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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