J9withdogs Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 I didn't think they were that bad - just a bit of schoolyard humour about the Glasgow Airport incident Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Lets face it would they have been removed had they of been Irish Jokes ???? bit touchy if you ask me but you're not so I will say no more ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howie Posted July 3, 2007 Author Share Posted July 3, 2007 Possibly Janine, but if I remember some off the jokes were aimed at those from middle eastern origin, and knowing how sensitive this is then you can,t blame the mods for deleting them. Its the world we live in i,m afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 I think it was Isaac Asimov (The SF writer) who said:- "I no more want to breathe your second hand smoke than I want to wade through your excreta" That sums it up for me! Personally I would tax tobacco products an extra 25% (If they can tax air travel with a tax based upon VERY dubious data - surely they can tax something that has been proved to cause damage?) and this 25% extra tax would be earmarked for the NHS. I would also have our medical records marked from as soon as your GP picks up that you are a smoker. From that point you have 2 years to give up and all "weaning" medication provided on prescription. If you are still smoking after 2 years then certain NHS benefits (those associated with smoking) would be withdrawn and no longer available to you. Draconian? - yes - Absolutely!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 And would you do the same with Alcoholisim? Have you ever smoked Clive ? *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Thanks for the clarification guys, I must have missed those postings. Interestingly I popped into my local this evening for a quick half and chatting with one of the other regulars was enlightening. apparently on Sunday evening all but two of the customers were smokers but all the smokers went out for their ciggys without complaint. My mate said that hee found it a very pleasant place without clouds of smoke everywhere and he's a smoker! D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Well have to make you right there Dave it is a filty habit and it is a drug ! I have never ever classed myself one up from a Heroin taker . I suppose I always knew well as I got old enough to analyise it anyway I was no better than a junkie just a junkie to a different weed drug. anyway I am pleased to say one day and going strong anyone who is interested the book is The Easy way To give up smoking by Alan Carr who himself died from lung Cancer ..No scare tactics but bloody common sense try it . It put's you on a high no patches No gimics no Inhalers just your brains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John H Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Hi Mr Moderator, Give offence! Who to? The people who are trying to kill us? 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J9withdogs Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 I wonder whether the Mods would get so upset if we said anything untoward about Christianity? Or would it be Tony Jones coming after us? :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 J9 your www is not no good not working :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J9withdogs Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Strange - it works if you type it into your web browser. Check out the really annoying music! (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza454 Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 John H - 2007-07-03 8:34 PM Hi Mr Moderator, Give offence! Who to? The people who are trying to kill us? 8-) I think that generally the Mods are reasonably tolerant and allow us all to get on with things.Occasionally when they do step in, we should accept their decision and understand that they have a job to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howie Posted July 3, 2007 Author Share Posted July 3, 2007 No good trying to wriggle out of this one Baz. The mods warning came directly after your posting, so we all assume you are the guilty party. ;-) Makes you realise how brainwashed we,ve all become though. Took me a while to come up with "middle eastern origin" just in case I offended anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza454 Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 howie - 2007-07-03 11:12 PM No good trying to wriggle out of this one Baz. The mods warning came directly after your posting, so we all assume you are the guilty party. ;-) Makes you realise how brainwashed we,ve all become though. Took me a while to come up with "middle eastern origin" just in case I offended anyone. Sometimes you have to test the boundaries - I must admit, some of the ones that the Mod deleted were very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 Hi Michelle In answer to your question re Alcoholism - No I would not do the same because their "habit" has a corrosive negative effect on just their own body. (I am not talking about the social "fallout" affecting their immediate family etc) Someone addicted to alcohol does not go out in public spewing out a cloud of alcohol vapour that we all have to breath. An alcoholic does not force others to share what he is addicted to. Whereas a smoker emits a cloud of "crap" that unless you are wearing breathing apparatus you cannot avoid. And yes I did used to smoke - started in college and wished I never had. I just decided that I was not going to smoke anymore and stopped. I found the nicotine patches incredibly helpful, - the only problem I had was that at night, the patch I put on my arm would occasionally end up on SWMBO's backside. No idea how but it was quite funny to see her wake up all "jittery" from the nicotine. But I found the nicotine chewing gum truly disgusting. My belief is that giving up is only possible if you REALLY want to and if the benefits of giving up are graphically underlined. Hence my suggestion re the withdrawal of NHS benefits for those that choose to not only self-harm via smoking but harm others as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 Fair enough Clive, Hindsight says if people knew then what they know now well. However I do feel sorry for people who for what ever reason decide to do something although not intenetionally to be destructive and end up a slave to it be it drink or drugs . After all if they knew would they do and I don't mean hard drugs I think when we start out we always start out with the it can't get me effect ...Still we live and learn .. I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howie Posted July 4, 2007 Author Share Posted July 4, 2007 CliveH - 2007-07-04 5:04 My belief is that giving up is only possible if you REALLY want to and if the benefits of giving up are graphically underlined. Hence my suggestion re the withdrawal of NHS benefits for those that choose to not only self-harm via smoking but harm others as well. Withdrawing treatment for smoking related illness must never be an option Clive. Where do you stop. I paid a full stamp all my working live on the understanding that free treatment would be available to all who needed it without exception and on that understanding only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 It is an option open to GP's and Hosp Doctors right now Howie and it is used! - If you do not give up smoking, our local GP practice makes it quite clear that certain treatment options are not available to you. For example, smoking increases blood pressure and causes peripheral ischemia. Our GP's make it clear that they prescribe the cutting out of smoking. That is their treatment for that patient’s problem. You either take their prescription or you don't. It is your choice. They also prescribe a fitness regime – again you take it or you don’t. The difference now is that in the past a pill to lower BP would be prescribed and the idiot patient would carry on smoking! As a practice they are not alone. I think gone are the days when smokers can happily turn themselves (and anyone unfortunate enough to have to be close to them) into kippers and the rest of us pick up the tab. What on earth is the point of treating someone for the effects of smoking and smoking related diseases with medication if they will not give up smoking? That would mean I sponsor them and their filthy habit with my NIC contributions. I am happy to help them kick the habit but not to treat the symptoms of their habit rather than tackling the route cause. As for the right to treatment because we all pay NIC. Yes we do! - but as the cost of smoking is high, I suggest that if you want to smoke and have the illnesses that result treated then you can afford to go privately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatterdog Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 just a thought - Money for the NHS doesnt solely come form us paying our stamps - soon we are all going to have to pay for private med care and operations - that is once smokers have been made to quit by one way or another as it has to be said that tax on ciggarettes is very high in this country compared to abroad and some of that revenue is used to support our NHS plus when we become a no smoking county all the people in this country that are employed in the tobacco industry are going to be out of work and on the DOLE. so in general everybody is going to get a hyke in their taxes plus extra stealth taxes. it is a no win for everyone - already the Gov complains about pensions because people live longer, what will it be like when we all live to be 100? Hows the no smoking going Michelle you have my support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donna miller Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 These debates about whether smokers should be allowed treatment have been going on since day dot. The non smokers will quote that smoking related illness costs the NHS £2.5 billion a year, the smokers will quote that tax on cigarette sales is £9 billion a year. I dont smoke anymore, however, I believe it's a persons right to decide whether they smoke or not, I dont however subscribe to the " Why should I breathe other peoples smoke" brigade. The answer is simple, I just avoid places that are smoke filled (or did before this draconion law was passed) I also avoid strip clubs, lap dancing clubs and brothels. My thinking is this, the people that frequent those places, do so by choice, and I honestly believe that pub landlords should be given the choice of whether they allow smoking or not. We would soon get a balance of smoking and non smoking pubs and bars ( I wholeheartedly support the ban in food establishments), so the health brigade could not bang on about their right to clean air. Here's one for thought, if you believe smokers should be refused treatment if they develop a "smoking related" illness, do you also think that a driver who is injured in a RTA should be refused treatment because he/she CHOOSES to drive a car/bike/motorhome. The NHS was set up to provide a free medical service to the people of Great Britain, who are we to dictate who should and shouldn't receive that service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howie Posted July 4, 2007 Author Share Posted July 4, 2007 CliveH - 2007-07-04 9:29 AM It is an option open to GP's and Hosp Doctors right now Howie and it is used! - If you do not give up smoking, our local GP practice makes it quite clear that certain treatment options are not available to you. For example, smoking increases blood pressure and causes peripheral ischemia. Our GP's make it clear that they prescribe the cutting out of smoking. That is their treatment for that patient’s problem. You either take their prescription or you don't. It is your choice. They also prescribe a fitness regime – again you take it or you don’t. The difference now is that in the past a pill to lower BP would be prescribed and the idiot patient would carry on smoking! As a practice they are not alone. I think gone are the days when smokers can happily turn themselves (and anyone unfortunate enough to have to be close to them) into kippers and the rest of us pick up the tab. What on earth is the point of treating someone for the effects of smoking and smoking related diseases with medication if they will not give up smoking? That would mean I sponsor them and their filthy habit with my NIC contributions. I am happy to help them kick the habit but not to treat the symptoms of their habit rather than tackling the route cause. As for the right to treatment because we all pay NIC. Yes we do! - but as the cost of smoking is high, I suggest that if you want to smoke and have the illnesses that result treated then you can afford to go privately. Again I beg to differ Clive. First we must accept that smoking, as with with many other recreational drugs is highly addictive. Its also safe to say that we all agree that it is a proven killer, not only for the actual user, but for those unfortunate enough to suffer from its passive side effects. Those that continue to smoke when advised by their Doctors that they are facing a early demise, or that further treatment will be denied may rightly be described as "Idiots", but never the less I strongly feel that they are still entitled to whatever the health service has to offer, and that help and rehab is far more productive than simply ostracism. We are also in agreement on how the goverment views this. Figures for 2006. Cost for treating smoking related illnesses £2bn. Profit to treasury from tobacco taxes £9.5bn, so we all know where they are coming from and any comments they have on the matter should be dismissed with the contempt it deserves. So its back to the principle involved. Do we discriminate against certain self inflicted illnesses and who decides why, who and when. We already have mutterings along the same lines re. obsesity, and this can only be described as the thin end of the wedge. Only one winner going down that road and thats the goverment again. Still raking in the taxes, freeing up beds and facilities and finally getting rid of those waiting lists and bothersome targets they are forever setting themselves. There is always the exception to the rule, but lets make sure that everyone who requires medical care from our N.H.S recieves it without fear or favour and in the spirit intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howie Posted July 4, 2007 Author Share Posted July 4, 2007 donna miller - 2007-07-04 12:18 PM These debates about whether smokers should be allowed treatment have been going on since day dot. The non smokers will quote that smoking related illness costs the NHS £2.5 billion a year, the smokers will quote that tax on cigarette sales is £9 billion a year. I dont smoke anymore, however, I believe it's a persons right to decide whether they smoke or not, I dont however subscribe to the " Why should I breathe other peoples smoke" brigade. The answer is simple, I just avoid places that are smoke filled (or did before this draconion law was passed) I also avoid strip clubs, lap dancing clubs and brothels. My thinking is this, the people that frequent those places, do so by choice, and I honestly believe that pub landlords should be given the choice of whether they allow smoking or not. We would soon get a balance of smoking and non smoking pubs and bars ( I wholeheartedly support the ban in food establishments), so the health brigade could not bang on about their right to clean air. Here's one for thought, if you believe smokers should be refused treatment if they develop a "smoking related" illness, do you also think that a driver who is injured in a RTA should be refused treatment because he/she CHOOSES to drive a car/bike/motorhome. The NHS was set up to provide a free medical service to the people of Great Britain, who are we to dictate who should and shouldn't receive that service.Sorry our postings crossed each other Donna but good to know we at least agree on on some of the sentiments so far expressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 Which was the point I was trying to make but not doing it any good. If a drunk who chooses to be a drunken Alcoholic all his /her life falls and needs a hip replacement nothing to do with his/her lievr who am I to refuse . It may be self inflicted because of drunkeness but I still think people have the right to be treated. When i worked inthe doctors and had to send people for operations costing £££££ it seemed not only to me but others that in the East End of London the majority of people we were spending our money on were immigrants to this country and had literally just landed (I say that because I know they had) example they used to think that if they asked for a medical card it would prove something to the DHSS as far as housing was concerned and benefits..Anyway seems to me that alot of money goes on this and if we were not so tollerant than our money would go on our people...Oh ggod hope that has come out right :$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howie Posted July 4, 2007 Author Share Posted July 4, 2007 Sounded like downright racism to me mush so don,t be supprised if you get that knock on the door. Off to Tescos now to watch them queue to spend all that money on the weed. Are,nt you glad thats all behind you now. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 yep doing well so far not finding it hard as yet hubby a little bit .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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