Westcountry Posted April 23, 2023 Share Posted April 23, 2023 Hi, can the forum help please? I have a 2017 Autosleeper with a Platinum Leisure plus 100AH battery. Off grid, if I put my trauma heating on at night using gas, my Sargent EC480 controller says that my leisure battery goes from a fully charged 12.4v to around 10.5v in about 5 hours causing the heating to fail with a warning symbol on the Truma controller. It never used to do this, we could go for 3 to 4 nights with the heating on gas before requiring a recharge. The rate of voltage drop off from the battery is also not linear. After 2 hours use, the voltage had dropped from 12.4v to 12.1v but three hours later it had dropped to 10.5v. The battery still shows the green dot on the battery case saying it’s healthy. Apart from the lights on the outside of the fridge, nothing else is taking power from the leisure battery. Do you think it’s the battery needs replacing or something more sinister? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Labby Posted April 23, 2023 Share Posted April 23, 2023 The readings you are getting points to a defective battery (the green dot indicator can still read as ok if not all cells of the battery are faulty). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted April 23, 2023 Share Posted April 23, 2023 If the battery is the original, and hence approximately 6 years old, then I would certainly consider replacing. I may be making wrong assumptions, but it seems that you have been regularly taking the battery down to lower than 50% depth of discharge (DOD). This will shorten battery life considerably, and 6 years is not a bad lifetime. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted April 23, 2023 Share Posted April 23, 2023 Which, I think, is another way of saying that for your pattern of use, you probably have insufficient battery capacity - which is a whole different ball game. BTW, you didn't mention lighting and other electrical loads, but they all need taking into consideration, because they are all drawing Amps, however, little. However, if the existing battery is shot and you have to replace it, now would seem the ideal time to consider buying a matched pair to increase installed capacity. Just first make sure to check that your charging equipment (alternator/charger) are adequate for the higher charging load, and that either is suited to whatever of battery chemistry you favour. Just one further point, as you favour using your van off grid, are you sure that you are driving sufficiently far to fully charge the leisure before relying on it for your overnight stops? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve hill Posted April 23, 2023 Share Posted April 23, 2023 Ok, the problem is bound to be its old. Green lights are a waste of time so ignore it, your "fully charged" 12.4V is also wrong, it would be about 12.6V. Each year your battery will get worse, I say about 5-10%, I have tested this on many lead acid battery types in the past (not lithium). IF it is 6 years it is good,lots of leisure batterries are only guaranteed for 2-3 years, most people are unaware that the battery is getting worse as they do not load test them(not that difficult), when you "full time" they become very important so I always tested against the same realistic load once a year, it pays off. Hope thats useful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcountry Posted April 24, 2023 Author Share Posted April 24, 2023 Thank you everyone for all your comments. The consensus appears to agree that I need a new battery. It’s not that we favour off grid, we probably spend more time plugged in. It’s just that of recent, when we have been off grid and needed gas heating, the battery has given up after just a couple of hours. I’m looking at the Platinum Plus AGMLB6110L as a replacement which has Class A instead of my current lead acid battery that is Class C. Anyone had experience of one of these? Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted April 24, 2023 Share Posted April 24, 2023 Westland put a lithium in it. One or two. And you gone whit the wind At a constant ! 13.7 volts. And that is what the equipment Like. And put a induction hob in. to save gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted April 24, 2023 Share Posted April 24, 2023 Forget to say And as much Solar on the Roof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted April 24, 2023 Share Posted April 24, 2023 1 hour ago, Westcountry said: Thank you everyone for all your comments. The consensus appears to agree that I need a new battery. It’s not that we favour off grid, we probably spend more time plugged in. It’s just that of recent, when we have been off grid and needed gas heating, the battery has given up after just a couple of hours. I’m looking at the Platinum Plus AGMLB6110L as a replacement which has Class A instead of my current lead acid battery that is Class C. Anyone had experience of one of these? Thanks again. Yes one of the problems with using hookup most of the time is the battery always seems ok - much the same with a solar panel keeping the voltage reading up. We have recently had the same issue with our diesel fired heater )which draws a lot of power) on a temporary holiday site. Prior to that it seemed ok and although the (12 year old!) batteries seemed fine with all the other kit it just struggled to keep up in the recent cold nights off hookup. Dont know the AGM battery you mention do cannot offer a view but replaced our sealed lead acid ones with two Numax (Lucas) EFL 105 ah batteries so should be good for another few years now. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 25, 2023 Share Posted April 25, 2023 Regarding replacing an original 'ordinary' wet-acid leisure-battery with an AGM battery, this link may be of interest. https://lasmotorhomes.co.uk/case-studies/motorhome-battery/#:~:text=3.-,A.G.M.,used safely inside a motorhome. Until quite recently the O&AL forum-suggested replacement for a Platinum Leisure Plus 100AH battery would probably have been an inexpensive VARTA LFD90 (no longer available) or a dearer YUASA L36-EFB, as much as anything because the late-Allan Evans recommended either. Such batteries are 'non-controversial' where charging is concerned and should be 100% compatible with whatever battery-charging system a UK-built motorhome has. Personally, given Westcountry's motorhome usage pattern, I'd avoid fitting an AGM battery (I've little faith in the NCC's Verified Leisure Battery Scheme) and probably opt for a YUASA L36-EFB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted April 25, 2023 Share Posted April 25, 2023 19 hours ago, Westcountry said: Thank you everyone for all your comments. The consensus appears to agree that I need a new battery. It’s not that we favour off grid, we probably spend more time plugged in. It’s just that of recent, when we have been off grid and needed gas heating, the battery has given up after just a couple of hours. I’m looking at the Platinum Plus AGMLB6110L as a replacement which has Class A instead of my current lead acid battery that is Class C. Anyone had experience of one of these? Thanks again. Following on from Derek's post above, in connection with AGM batteries, do check your on-board charger for compatibility with AGM. There are a significant number of charger makes/models that do not have an AGM charging regimen, which will be liable to be unsuitable to achieve optimal charge state/service life from AGM batteries, though being perfectly good for conventional flooded lead/acid batteries. Much the same is true for gel batteries should you decide in favour of that route. The later, more sophisticated, chargers will have a switch somewhere to change the charging regimen between flooded lead/acid and gel, or AGM (usually only one option is provided). Also, don't rely on the previous battery as an indication that the charger is necessarily either GEL or AGM sympathetic. I've had two vans that were delivered with AGM (in one case) or GEL (in the other) batteries, which had chargers suited only to flooded lead/acid. I sympathise - it is a bit of a minefield. If you don't have a manual for your charger I'd suggest getting one, and if you have one, reading it, to be sure whether, and if so to what, it can be switched. If it is switchable, also check that the switch is in the correct position! Since your pattern of use seems to imply occasional heavy discharges (i.e. below 50%) it may be worth your while exploring gel, despite the extra cost, because they better tolerate heavier discharges. Failing that, as Derek suggests, stick to flooded lead/acid - but buy two at the same time to give greater capacity and guard against deep discharges when using the van off grid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 25, 2023 Share Posted April 25, 2023 In the original posting Westcountry mentions that his Auto-Sleepers motorhome has a Sargent EC480 control-panel of the type shown on this webpage https://sargentltd.co.uk/shop/product/ec480_control_panel/180 Within the "System Instructions" that can be downloaded via that webpage is the following advice 3.3 Leisure Battery 3.3.1 Type / Selection For optimum performance and safety it is essential that only a proprietary brand LEISURE battery is used with a typical capacity of 75 to 120 Ah (Ampere / hours). A normal vehicle battery is NOT suitable. This battery should always be connected when the system is in use. The PSU is configured to work with standard lead acid leisure batteries, and in most cases is also compatible with the latest range of Absorbed Glass Matt (AGM) batteries. Before fitting non-standard batteries please check that the charging profile described in 3.2 is suitable for the type of battery by referring to the battery documentation or battery manufacturer. The battery feed is fitted with an inline fuse between the battery and the electrical harness, which is usually located immediately outside the battery compartment or within 500mm of the battery. The maximum rating of this fuse is 20A. It's perhaps worth noting (and this is emphasised elsewhere on-line) that "compatible with the latest range of Absorbed Glass Matt (AGM) batteries" neither means that the battery-charger fitted by Sargent has a dedicated AGM setting, nor that the charging regimen the charger does offer is optimised for AGM batteries. Then there's the "a typical capacity of 75 to 120 Ah (Ampere / hours)" factor to bear in mind when contemplating upping the overall battery capacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted April 25, 2023 Share Posted April 25, 2023 Put two lithiums in and all your problems are gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted April 25, 2023 Share Posted April 25, 2023 3 hours ago, Derek Uzzell said: ..........................................For optimum performance and safety it is essential that only a proprietary brand LEISURE battery is used with a typical capacity of 75 to 120 Ah (Ampere / hours). A normal vehicle battery is NOT suitable. This battery should always be connected when the system is in use. The PSU is configured to work with standard lead acid leisure batteries, and in most cases is also compatible with the latest range of Absorbed Glass Matt (AGM) batteries. Before fitting non-standard batteries please check that the charging profile described in 3.2 is suitable for the type of battery by referring to the battery documentation or battery manufacturer. The battery feed is fitted with an inline fuse between the battery and the electrical harness, which is usually located immediately outside the battery compartment or within 500mm of the battery. The maximum rating of this fuse is 20A. It's perhaps worth noting (and this is emphasised elsewhere on-line) that "compatible with the latest range of Absorbed Glass Matt (AGM) batteries" neither means that the battery-charger fitted by Sargent has a dedicated AGM setting, nor that the charging regimen the charger does offer is optimised for AGM batteries. Then there's the "a typical capacity of 75 to 120 Ah (Ampere / hours)" factor to bear in mind when contemplating upping the overall battery capacity. The above is consistent with the User Instructions and Datasheet which accompany the Sargent PX300 Intelligent Battery Charger. From the Instructions (dated 25/11/19) it is clear that the charger is not switchable to alternative charge regimens. So, AGM gets the same charge profile as flooded lead acid. There is a "small print" (literally!) note on the (undated) Datasheet, asterisked beside the entry reading "Compatible batteries Flooded, AGM" which reads as follows: "it is recommended to confirm compatibility with the manufacturer, for the specific battery being used." I take that note to mean Sargent are aware that not all AGM batteries will respond beneficially to the charger output, and are placing the onus for checking onto the user. I couldn't possible comment! 🙂 Buyer beware? Given the uncertainty it seems the best choice from the point of view of the existing charger would be a conventional flooded lead/acid battery, such as Derek instances above - and then keep a close eye on its charge state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted April 25, 2023 Share Posted April 25, 2023 1 hour ago, Hans said: Put two lithiums in and all your problems are gone. I don't think that advice is appropriate for the charger in "Westcountry's" van, Hans. In view of their cost, Westcountry would be well advised to research the subject of lithium battery charging before assuming they will charge satisfactorily from his existing charger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 26, 2023 Share Posted April 26, 2023 The lithium-batterysystem in Hans's VW-based campervan is shown in the photos on this earlier forum thread. https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/topic/61434-sorry-batteries-again/page/2/ The batteries Hans chose are Epsilon Super-B and the dimensional-equivalent to the Platinum battery fitted to Westcountry's motorhome would be the one on the following link. I'm not sure if this battery is still marketed, but a previous asking-price was given as £1574.97 https://www.batterycharged.co.uk/super-b-epsilon-sb12v1200wh-m-lithium-traction-battery-1466641.html (It would be interesting to know the overall cost (including installation) of the 2 x lithium-battery system in Hans's campervan.) Less expensive lithium 'leisure' batteries are available, but it's to be expected that the cost of even a DIY single-battery installation would exceed £1000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 Two 100 Ah lithium 3899 euro, 1x victron ip22 loader 899 euro 1x sun panel lithium regulator 199 euro. prices placed incl vat. I got 500 euro for the former back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 To compare bit little off tangent if you put sun panels on your house roof . Your house lithium batts cost 15000 Euro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 1 hour ago, Hans said: Two 100 Ah lithium 3899 euro, 1x victron ip22 loader 899 euro 1x sun panel lithium regulator 199 euro. prices placed incl vat. I got 500 euro for the former back. So basically 5,000 Euros for 2 lithium batteries and a solar panel as against Derek's proposal of two Varta LED95 EFB Leisure batteries at £135 each. So approx £4,400 for Lithium or £270 for EFB. The choice is yours... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirou Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 Well, a fairer comparison would be one lithium battery vs two Varta LED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 12 minutes ago, spirou said: Well, a fairer comparison would be one lithium battery vs two Varta LED. OK, so £1,700 to £270. Sorry but still a no brainer for me on my budget! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted April 29, 2023 Share Posted April 29, 2023 As Monique my Wife runs full year around Dog agility i had no other option than that to keep my pop up roof camper warm by webasto diesel heating. And compressor fridge. Hot water is on gas. So keithl your comments are off Tangent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted April 29, 2023 Share Posted April 29, 2023 OFFGRID I MEAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 And the full monty in my engine Bay. Super B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 Hi I think at the price of those two Lithium Packs I go the full monty on holiday in Spain lol lol Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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