ColinM50 Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 On my Elddis 196 I have an unused spare wheel slung under the rear of the M/H which as a guess weighs in at 12kg. Am in the process of swapping to a Chausson 788 which doesn't have one and the dealer says the supplied repair kit is good enough. The new m/h has a pretty big garage where one could fit, but I'm loathe to waste the space on a spare. What's your position/thoughts about a spare? Do you have one? Would you be happy without and has anyone actually needed one and if so what's the protocol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 On taking passengers to Southampton docks I had a blow out in my Ford 8 seater with no spare and only a repair spray. tyre was slit in the side. Cost me a fortune to have my customers taken on and another fortune to have a cheap tyre fitted ( company did not have decent quality ones ) 1 week later another puncture and again I had to pay someone to take my customers to bhx. the gunge and small compressor is totally inadequate. I now carry a spare in the MH and sold the 8 seater. Without a spare. would I travel without. Heck no. the hassle it caused and the time lost without the money loss is not with saving a few kilos and loosing a little boot space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydney1 Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 I think carrying a just a spare tyre is a good compromise rather than carrying a spare wheel and tyre. Unless you are really going off grid and prepared to do the swap yourself, you are generally not going to be too far from being able to get someone able to put a new tyre on in the event of a puncture.I'm not comfortable relying on a basic repair kit which are only good enough for the most simple of punctures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 1 hour ago, ColinM50 said: On my Elddis 196 I have an unused spare wheel slung under the rear of the M/H which as a guess weighs in at 12kg. I think you are in for a BIG shock if you where to actually weigh a MH wheel and tyre! Having recently taken all the wheels off my MH my guess would be more like 30 to 40 kg! Just found a late model Sprinter wheel and tyre weighs 34 kg so there you go! But I do have a spare and would never consider travelling without it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 I have a 2016 Rapido and no spare and actually no where to put one and I would recommend having a spare wheel/tyre if possible. A few years ago I had some self sealing gung added and I've also got a tyre pressure management system so all I can do is keep fingers crossed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GandJP Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 I have just done a bit of maths adding up all the miles I have ever done in a MH over the last 12 years or so and come to the grand total of about 80,0000 plus and have never had a puncture. My present MH is the first one I have ever owned without a spare and although I am still a little apprehensive about not having one I have decided to go with it and not get one and go with the spray and pump system supplied. If the need arises I have roadside assistance whether here or abroad and will have go along with that if the need ever arises. So like stevc176 fingers crossed but its.not something that will make me lose sleep over any. more than any other potential mechanical problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 I would never think of going on a trip without a spare wheel - any more than I would go abroad without health insurance. How many trips, or years, that you've been lucky, doesn't seem to be relevant to me. 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinM50 Posted August 20, 2023 Author Share Posted August 20, 2023 If Keith reckons a wheel weighs 40 Kg, that really eats into my payload. Hmm, Can you get space saver wheels for the m/h, like I had on my little Aygo? Or maybe just a tyre and get the AA man to take off the punctured one and replace it? Will they do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 The AA's answer to the question "Does the AA change tyres?" is Yes. In fact, flat tyres are one of the most common reasons why Members call us out. We can remove your flat tyre and fit your spare there and then. If you don't have a spare, all our trained mechanics carry a special spare wheel which fits most cars. We'll fit it on for you and come with you to a garage to buy a new one. Even if you need a tow to a garage, most of our vans have towing equipment on board, so you won't have to wait for a truck. Although the AA's question refers to changing tyres, the answer should read "We can remove your wheel that has the flat tyre and fit your spare wheel there and then." It would be unrealistically optimistic to expect an AA mechanic to carry out a roadside tyre change on a car, never mind on a motorhome. Even though the AA's special spare wheel may fit "most cars", it would be unsuitable for the 15"/16"-diameter wheels and heavyweight tyres that are the norm for motorhomes and (to the best of my knowledge) no in-an-emergency space-saver tyre is marketed with a load-rating suitable for motorhome usage. My 2005 Ford Transit-based Hobby motorhome had a spare wheel as standard, but Sod's Law came into play when the tyre valves on both of the Hobby's rear wheels failed in quick succession while we were in France. My 2015 Rapido 640F had no spare wheel as standard and no under-chassis space for one. I bought a matching wheel and tyre - mounting it upright in the Rapido's rear garage where there was (just) room to do this - but I never needed to use it while I owned the vehicle. The weight of the (steel) wheel with 215/70 R15C tyre would have been around 25-30kg, as that would have been my DIY wheel-changing muscular maximum. This long C&MC forum thread may be of interest https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/club-together/discussions/welcome-hobby-talk/caravan-motorhome-chat/spare-wheels-for-motorhomes/?p=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 Having had the experience of two deflations over a two year period on our previous motorhome there is no way I would accept a motorhome without a suitable spare wheel. On both occasions the tyres were left completely shredded and a pump up kit would have been as much use as chocolate teapot! The first occured in UK on the way to get a ferry from Dover, but I stupidly changed the wheel and continued to France thinking I would obtain a new one next day, long story but ended up having to purchase to old, very expensive part worn tyres in France and then buy two new ones when we got home. The second occasion was in the South of France shortly after leaving St Tropez. As we were on our way home I decided to chance getting back without a spare due to the difficulties experienced previously. We have two cars supplied new with no spare wheel, both of which I have acquired space saver wheels for, or least ways came as part of the purchase, one of which has been used two weeks after the car was supplied!!! No spare for me is a deal breaker. Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 If the rim gets damaged they won't fit the tyre. Getting a new rim could turn into a very long job. I didn't carry a spare on the lorries because we had a deal with a 24/7 national tyre company who would come out to us promptly and not rip us off. We bought a lot of tyres so they wanted to keep our business. But if you are stuck with no spare they have got you by the b*llocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 If you have breakdown cover you might want to check if having a puncture and not having a spare wheel is covered because Comfort don't cover it. Their breakdown policy quotes 'Replacing a wheel if your vehicle does not have a serviceable spare wheel' as an exclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinM50 Posted August 21, 2023 Author Share Posted August 21, 2023 Interesting poinyts esp re Comfort who are my insurer, Will see what they say when I change the M/H but am leaning towards carrying a space saver or just a tyre which I think I could keep under the bed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 Hi Just be careful if for example going to France as the tyre must be the same make as the others that are on the vehicle, otherwise they will not fit it for you on the rim Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterjl Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 I had an auto trail with no spare about 12 years ago. Contacted a garage selling replacement alloy wheels and bought a steel wheel with a used tyre as a spare. Not ideal but it would have got me out of trouble. Never had to use it but it’s peace of mind when travelling across Europe, especially Eastern Europe. Peter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 Steel 'spare wheels' (with or without a tyre) can be obtained from here https://www.thewheelshop.co.uk/product-category/space-saver-wheels/fiat-vans-motorhomes-1/ (These wheels/tyres are NOT space-saver type. As I emphasised above, it's not possible to obtain a 'skinny spare' wheel or tyre suitable for a motorhome or van.) My 2015 Ducato-based Rapido 640F had 15"-diameter steel wheels and - to act as a spare - I bought a brand-new matching steel wheel via ebay for not much money. The UK advertiser told me that he had obtained several of these wheels from a motorhome converter abroad who replaced the standard steel wheels with alloys and a customer could choose from several alloy-wheel designs. When I took delivery of the (unmarked) wheel it still had a balance weight on it and was still in Germany-marked packaging. Buying sight-unseen secondhand wheels from vehicle breakers can be a minefield, though I managed to obtain from a breaker an alloy wheel as a spare for my car that was quite cheap and proved to be brand new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 As onecal says, in France you have to have same MAKE of tyre on the same axle and was the cause of me having to purchase two second hand tyres to replace the one shredded tyre. The size of tyre was the other problem as GB supplied Boxers had a different tyre size to EU ones and the GB size was not readily available in France meaning two would have had to be shipped in from GB. Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 On 20/08/2023 at 19:37, ColinM50 said: On my Elddis 196 I have an unused spare wheel slung under the rear of the M/H which as a guess weighs in at 12kg. Am in the process of swapping to a Chausson 788 which doesn't have one and the dealer says the supplied repair kit is good enough. The new m/h has a pretty big garage where one could fit, but I'm loathe to waste the space on a spare. What's your position/thoughts about a spare? Do you have one? Would you be happy without and has anyone actually needed one and if so what's the protocol The long answer is the Dirty Harry answer: "Are you feeling lucky?" 🙂 But can you really be confident that, should you ever suffer a puncture (they do happen!), it won't be on a wet Sunday evening in a remote, possibly mountainous area? (It is a motorhome, after all.) Has the dealer ever used one of those repair kits on a completely deflated tyre? Has he used one on a tyre that has sidewall damage after striking an object on a road (in which case totally useless)? Might his honest opinion on the efficacy of the repair kit have put you off buying, as you realised that if you got a puncture there would be a good chance that your breakdown service might do no more than send a breakdown truck, load your van, take it to the nearest tyre depot, which may well not have the appropriate tyre in stock, and then leave you to sort that out with the tyre depot? I understand your concern re the weight, and possible location for, a spare wheel, but then, the 788 is, IMO, a somewhat "fictional" van! It is, in round numbers 7.2 metres long, island bed, 3 berth, 4 belted seat, van, with a 105L fresh water tank, 100 litre waste tank, on (apparently) Fiat or Ford chassis, with an MAM of 3,500 kg and a published payload of 304 kg, with a gas locker that will accommodate just 1, 11kg, (but aluminium, or steel?) gas cylinder. In short it is built for those whose driving licences limit them to 3,500kg MAM. As such, IMO, they have sacrificed practicality in their desire to offer a large, comfortable, van to that market sector. So, again in my opinion, and very simply stated, as presented in Chausson's catalogue (at least, the ones I could find) it simply doesn't work in real world terms! I could not get into any properly technical information about the model. I was going to suggest you might solve the problem by ordering a chassis upgrade to at least 3,850kg, but couldn't discover whether such an option even exists. My internet skills, no doubt! 😐 However, from 2005 we've had four vans. In each case I deducted the manufacturer's catalogue MIRO (Mass in Running Order) for the basic van from it's MAM to give a "crude" figure for gross payload. Our experience was that if the resulting figure was less than 700kg, the practical working payload (after the weight of full gas cylinders (min 1x11 kg + 1x13kg), full fresh water tank, full fuel, and a wind out waning, were taken into account), would be tight. So, that became our "quick and dirty" red line test for any van. It seemed to work as, although we sometimes flirted with our MAM (according to our local weighbridge when weighed fully laden with both of us on board), and occasionally with one (usually the rear) axle maximum, we never went into overload, and had a comfortable working margin to absorb "impulse purchases" as we travelled. All the vans came with a full sized spare wheel, which was therefore included in the crude gross payload. It of course depends on how Chausson have arrived at that payload figure (i.e. what they have included/excluded from their calculations) but, based on the size of the van, and its longish rear overhang (implying potentially high rear axle loads), I think it would be wise to explore a factory MAM uprating and, if that is not feasible/possible, then I really think I'd seriously consider switching to a smaller (and therefore inherently lighter) van with a more realistic payload at 3,500kg MAM. However, I suspect that this long answer is not what your were hoping to hear! So, the short answer is in just two parts. Q1. Would I rely on a can of gunge and a 12V air pump to deal with possible punctures? A1 No. Q2. Would I embark on a journey without a spare wheel? A2 No After all, there are good reasons for the invention of the spare wheel! 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GandJP Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 My problem Brian with carrying a spare wheel is that should I carry everything spare I might need like, a spare engine, gearbox and everything else to be found in an engine compartment and of course an engine lift, all the spanners nessessary, two batteries of course, a fridge, water heater, water pump, water tank etc etc etc, just where does it all finish. If you have a sparewheel fitted as standard, well your sorted and it would be crazy to take it off but My Chausson hasn't got a spare wheel, it wouldn't fit through either locker doors and I have no jack anyway. Incidently I wouldn't want to be changing a wheel on my van with a supplied jack at the side of a busy road, lethal! Personally I can't live my driving time worrying about every failure that could happen and so like most of my driving life I will just have to hope that I will have no breakdowns with any part of my unit and I can get home in one piece. I of course have breakdown cover both here and abroad and think I have done everything I can to keep myself safe. What ever happens does and I will have to deal with it as and when and not forgetting if of course. Oh, I can see from your two questions and answers that you will not be buying a Chausson anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 23, 2023 Share Posted August 23, 2023 18 hours ago, GandJP said: 1 My problem Brian with carrying a spare wheel is that should I carry everything spare I might need like, a spare engine, gearbox and everything else to be found in an engine compartment and of course an engine lift, all the spanners nessessary, two batteries of course, a fridge, water heater, water pump, water tank etc etc etc, just where does it all finish. 2 If you have a sparewheel fitted as standard, well your sorted and it would be crazy to take it off but My 3 Chausson hasn't got a spare wheel, it wouldn't fit through either locker doors and I have no jack anyway. Incidently I wouldn't want to be changing a wheel on my van with a supplied jack at the side of a busy road, lethal! 3 Personally I can't live my driving time worrying about every failure that could happen and so like most of my driving life I will just have to hope that I will have no breakdowns with any part of my unit and I can get home in one piece. 4 I of course have breakdown cover both here and abroad and think I have done everything I can to keep myself safe. What ever happens does and I will have to deal with it as and when and not forgetting if of course. 5 Oh, I can see from your two questions and answers that you will not be buying a Chausson anytime soon. Don't want to take Colin's string off down a rabbit hole, but: 😄 1 You might argue all that, but the only issue actually raised by Colin was that of a spare wheel. To me it makes sense. Hence, I wouldn't (and didn't), buy a van without one. I'm not seeking to legislate, just giving, as Colin asked, my opinion. 🙂 2 So, I wouldn't have bought your van! 🙂 A spare isn't the solution to all tyre/wheel problems, but at least your breakdown service then has something to fit when they arrive. No spare: what do they then do? There's not much chance of them just turning up with the correct spare wheel and a suitable tyre, all ready to fit. Den and Basil raised the issue of the can of gunk being useless if the tyre is damaged. Stevec176 makes the point that not all breakdown services will deal with a wheel change where a spare is not carried. Onecal and Basil make the point that under French law both wheels on an axle must carry identical (including make and model) tyres. The absence of a spare introduces risks beyond the mere ability to stop, jack up, and change the wheel - extending to availability (within a reasonable time and distance of wherever you are), of a suitable wheel, a suitable tyre, and someone willing, and able, either to transport the van to the wheel or tyre, or to source a suitable tyre and take your existing wheel to have the new tyre fitted, or to source both new tyre and wheel and then have the tyre fitted to the wheel and balanced, and return to your van to fit them - leaving you with a deflated tyre and spare wheel you've said you couldn't in any case carry. And all of this to be negotiated by 'phone and concluded in whatever language prevails, at whatever place and time of day or night, your puncture arose. Those are exactly the scenarios I wasn't prepared to entertain, and are the reason I wouldn't contemplate a van without a spare. 3 I agree. Why do otherwise? 🙂 4 Agreed - providing the particular breakdown cover is aware the van has no spare wheel. 5 Not so. I've no bias against Chausson, just against any van with such a parsimonious payload and no spare wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Emar Posted August 24, 2023 Share Posted August 24, 2023 My 'van came with a spare wheel, but Benimar's storage solution was to put it right in the middle of the centre locker (which is also accessible from inside and out) rendering the locker not much use for anything else, the jack kit was also in there, so moved that into the gas locker which I rejigged to allow for refillable bottles. My effort to alter that situation was not cheap but for me works very well, bear in mind I already have a towbar and would not suggest fitting one just for the spare wheel. A company called Bakrak make various kit for towball or tow bracket fitting and I have a spare wheel carrier that is easily dismountable (can't leave it on at home, overhangs the pavement) and leaves the towball to use for the towcar but it does the job perfectly, if not cheaply. Okay time for the clever ones to tell me that the weight of the wheel, around 30 odd kg, on the towbar is now much heavier on the axle than mounted amidships as fitted by manufacturer and am well aware of that but have had the 'van replated to 3850kg which was also well worth doing and on the weighbridge is under the limit. If a spare wheel is important (and I think it is) it's possibly a way to go if possible. DD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philjp Posted August 24, 2023 Share Posted August 24, 2023 I understand from Spanish N332 web site if your vehicle 3500kg or under you must carry a Spare. If you do not you need an emergency kit to get you a garage to have the original tyre repaired or replaced https://n332.es/it-is-mandatory-to-carry-a-spare-wheel-in-spain-but-not-always/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 24, 2023 Share Posted August 24, 2023 35 minutes ago, Ben Emar said: .......................................................................... but have had the 'van replated to 3850kg which was also well worth doing and on the weighbridge is under the limit. If a spare wheel is important (and I think it is) it's possibly a way to go if possible. DD OK, but, did that re-plating exercise include any enhancement of the rear axle load limit? It's just that you haven't mentioned your actual rear axle loads before and after, and most re-platings do not enhance individual axle loads. Unless an enhancement to the rear axle limit was specifically requested/instructed, the potential for overloading the rear axle (plus the rear tyres) will still be exactly the same as before the re-plating was carried out. Might be worth checking to be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 24, 2023 Share Posted August 24, 2023 32 minutes ago, Philjp said: I understand from Spanish N332 web site if your vehicle 3500kg or under you must carry a Spare. If you do not you need an emergency kit to get you a garage to have the original tyre repaired or replaced https://n332.es/it-is-mandatory-to-carry-a-spare-wheel-in-spain-but-not-always/ But, as cited above, a flat tyre on a motorhome, unless spotted while stationary or before driven any significant distance, is liable to result in terminal damage to the tyre. Generally, even 3,500kg MAM motorhomes can legally load their rear axle to 2 tonnes, which places in the region of one tonne on each tyre. If the puncture is slow, it is quite possible that a van would be driven off without the puncture being apparent, and for it to be travelling at 60 or so MPH before anything untoward becomes apparent to the driver - who than has to find somewhere safe to stop. The consequence of that is likely to be at least severe sidewall damage to the tyre, and possibly rim damage to the wheel in addition. That repair kit is then, as stated above by Basil, "as much use as a chocolate teapot" - plus, you now have a 4 wheeled vehicle with only 3 wheels to its name! So at best avoidably inconvenient and difficult to sort out - even if street-legal in Spain! IMO, these kits should be banned on any vehicles other than private cars (and ideally on them as well! 😉), as fostering a misleading sense of security. Our present car came as standard with a space saver spare, which I had changed for a full sized spare; our next will be delivered with a full sized spare in lieu of a "repair kit". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamRienza Posted August 24, 2023 Share Posted August 24, 2023 I would add to Brian’s last post, the usefulness of a tyre pressure monitoring system which would allow for early awareness of pressure loss. Certainly my set have the ability to sound an alarm at a pressure loss of your choosing (tyrepal). This may save a tyre from terminal damage, but more importantly, from what I understand, blowouts, which are usually sidewall damage are invariably caused by dropping tyre pressure. A blowout can be much more serious than simply a ruined tyre as many can testify. Davy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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