Barne Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 Hi I have a autotrail tracker 2015 and the leisure battery is not charging I have been looking for the split charge relay but cannot find it Does anyone know where it would be so i can check it is working It is a sargent ec500 with a ec300 control panel over the door Hope someone can help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 Hi Barne, I'm going to assume your 2015 Tracker is based on a Ducato so there should be a module located at the base of the drivers side 'B' pillar below the seat belt mechanism which is the connection point between the Fiat cab and the AT conversion. I can't remember the name or model number of this module but it should contain fuses and one of them may have blown. Keith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barne Posted January 21 Author Share Posted January 21 Thanks Keith Will check them tomorrow very difficult to get at because handbrake very close Did not want to take them out just incase I couldn't get them back in Do you know if the split charge relay is one of the relays next to the fuses Cannot feel any click when I start the van Thanks for your help will let you know how I get on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 Hi Barne, I hold some old information relating to the x250 converter's socket. Pin 2 of the 15way connector is the D+ output, and is active low i.e, connects to earth when alternator is working. From what I have read there may be a Sargent relay box fitted somewhere under the seat. This box among other functions will either convert the signal to active high, or may even contain the split charge relay. It would make sense for the split charge relay to be in that area, as a power feed from the starter battery is also available at the B pillar. (Check for presence of two pole heavy duty connector.) The split charge relay is provided by the converter, while the relays at the B pillar are fitted as an option by Fiat. Also the fuses in that area do not include one for the D+ output. I am wondering whether your vehicle is too old to be fitted with the Sargent EM40 relay module? I have become aware that there are several reported failures in recent months due to connectors overheating. I am speculating that the problems are more likely to occur on long drives. This would be due to the high current taken by large fridges running on 12V while driving. - Something to be aware of. If you do have a similar problem, consider the alternative unit made by Apuljack. I am sorry that I am not able to attach more details of the converters socket, because this forum does not accept pdf, and most of my document library is pdf. I would need your email via PM to attach documents. I hope that the above helps you to find the fault. Please report what you discover. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barne Posted January 21 Author Share Posted January 21 Hi alanb I was driving through France last week when we had no leasure battery power So we decided to turn back it was freezing and no heating Checked leasure battery not charging with multimeter Trying to find split charge relay I took the fuse holder em40 out and found that the vehicle battery input positive had melted the plastic connector But Checked if still getting power through to vehicle battery out and was showing OK but still cannot find the split charge relay It is a 2015 fiat ducato x290 what is this module from apuljack Thanks for your help How do I pm you with my email address Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 3 minutes ago, Barne said: How do I pm you with my email address Hover your cursor over Alan's avatar and click 'Message'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barne Posted January 21 Author Share Posted January 21 Thanks for your reply Keithl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Labby Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 (edited) If you need more information about your EM40 fuse module and EC500 PSU the www.sargentltd.co.uk website has this in its support section (I think you could find that the split charging , in your case , may be controlled through the EC500) Edited January 22 by Labby 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 I have have diagrams for various older Sargent systems but have been unable to find a diagram for the EC500. Earlier systems used a split charge relay external to the Sargent unit. As split charge relays are gradually being replaced by B2B (Battery to Battery) chargers, it seems unlikely that Sargent would start to fit an integral relay. This leads me to the following conclusion. Either there is an external split charge relay, perhaps added under the bonnet, or a B2B has been installed and a split charge relay has not been fitted. Without access to a wiring diagram, it is difficult to work out what other effects the EN80 failure may have had on the system. Alan When I first mentioned the EM40, I did not know that Barne's vehicle was fitted with one , or that he had been driving across France when the problem was noticed. I am aware of a recent EM40 failure in similar circumstances. Previously there have been several reported failures on other forums. This does seem to suggest a design problem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Labby Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 Sargent have a repair harness for wiring/ connection damage at the EM40 module in their shop ,if needed . (product No 10001-20) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Labby Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 Information regarding the location of the split charging relay in later Sargent PSUs can be found in the Sargent support section / search articles /split charging Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 2 hours ago, Labby said: Sargent have a repair harness for wiring/ connection damage at the EM40 module in their shop ,if needed . (product No 10001-20) This seems to suggest that there is a problem with the EM40. I suspect that a replacement harness is a fix rather than a cure, Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 1 hour ago, Labby said: Information regarding the location of the split charging relay in later Sargent PSUs can be found in the Sargent support section / search articles /split charging Labby, If you have researched and found this, why not post a link. I spent some time this morning, trying to find a diagram. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Labby Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 (edited) Sorry ,but I am not able to post links but if you follow the Sargent website information I have shown it leads to the split charging relay location information regarding later Sargent PSU units.(not a diagram) .As you say , the EM40 can be a problem and I believe Apuljack electronics contacted the Autotrail owners group last year asking people with problems with theirs to get in touch with them as they were developing a more robust unit as a replacement (which they have now done and it is shown in their catalogue) Edited January 22 by Labby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 Sargent documentation appears to confirm that split-charging was implemented in the PSU (ECxxx) for their electrical systems. This appears to be consistent with the description of the EM40 unit here: https://sargent.zohodesk.eu/portal/en/kb/articles/em40-fiat-interface-unit ...which appears to provide the Fiat "Engine Running" signal to the PSU via brown/white wiring in and out. As mentioned above, this signal drops to ground (not positive) when the engine is running, and will be open circuit when it is not. It's relatively safe to assume that this signal is used by the PSU (EC500) to enable split charging internally. If the EM40 is damaged, then it would be very sensible in the first instance to check for both the input and output dropping to ground with the engine running. The particular connections can be derived from the above link. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 3 hours ago, Labby said: Sorry ,but I am not able to post links but if you follow the Sargent website information I have shown it leads to the split charging relay location information regarding later Sargent PSU units.(not a diagram) .As you say , the EM40 can be a problem and I believe Apuljack electronics contacted the Autotrail owners group last year asking people with problems with theirs to get in touch with them as they were developing a more robust unit as a replacement (which they have now done and it is shown in their catalogue) I have followed the path suggested above by Labby, and I have experienced no difficulty in creating a link. Link here The article does suggest that Sargent PSUs in general have an integral split charge relay. This does not agree with my inspection of diagrams available to me, where the split charge and fridge relays are shown external to the PSU. Further I remember being involved with several similar threads, where separately mounted relays where photographed. I am puzzled by this. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Labby Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 The earlier Sargent PSUs (EC200/PSU2007 ) used separate split charge and fridge relays, often found under the bonnet on X244 Fiat Ducato . I think things may have changed when the X250 series came out . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 2 hours ago, Labby said: The earlier Sargent PSUs (EC200/PSU2007 ) used separate split charge and fridge relays, often found under the bonnet on X244 Fiat Ducato . I think things may have changed when the X250 series came out . That is the explanation that I am coming to accept. My information has been collected when answering previous queries, and these naturally tend to be for older vehicles. The logical approach for @Barneis that suggested by @Robinhood. Alan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 Hi Barne I think Robinhood has hit the nail on the head. Lets us know how you got on Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barne Posted January 24 Author Share Posted January 24 Hi all Thanks very much for your prompt responses Here is my update Funnily enough my wife had said a couple of times that she could smell somthing burning after a long drive But as I could not see anything I dismissed it But she was right (as usual) As following the very helpful post from Alanb i checked the em40 and found that it had melted the vb in positive plastic connector so on monday i contacted Apuljack for a replacement and it arrived on Tuesday morning great service recommended I fitted it today and everything is working as it should be bit fiddly took me about an hour still could not find the split charge relay I think Robin Hood is right Thanks again for everyone's input much appreciated Barne 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 Hi Glad to hear you resolved your issue Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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