Truma diesel or gas heater ?

[Topper]

Hi All

we are ordering a new van and have option of Truma diesel or gas heating with underslung tank

we struggle to find LPG those days so are considering diesel

we have no experience of diesel heaters so would appreciate other people’s experience 

thanks

[rayc]

Is this a variant of the Truma combi operated by diesel with EH function i.e. heats water and space heating or is a separate space heater  e.g. Webasto /  Eberspacher / chinese with water heating still possible with gas/electric?

[Derek Uzzell]

Welcome to the Out&AboutLive forums, Topper.

Truma Combi "D" diesel-fuelled air-water heaters were developed as a joint venture between Truma and Eberspacher. They were seen (by Truma) as the future for motorhome heating, but shortly after they began to be marketed, diesel/petrol prices went through the roof, impacting on the heater's popularity.

Combi "D" models were originally diesel-fuel only, but nowadays there are versions that also include 240V heating elements (example here)

https://www.truma.com/gb/products/heating-systems-gb/combi-heaters/combi-d-6-e/

This 2018 O&AL forum thread may be of interest (some of the links may be 'dead')

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/topic/44889-truma-combi-d6-heater-fuel-pump-noise/

and there's a review of a Combi D6 here

https://saltandcharcoal.co/truma-combi-d6-review/

(It might be useful to know the make/model of motorhome you will be ordering and the exact model of Truma diesel-fuelled or gas-fuelled heater that can be chosen.)

[mtravel]

2 hours ago, Derek Uzzell said:

Welcome to the Out&AboutLive forums, Topper.

... diesel/petrol prices went through the roof, impacting on the heater's popularity ...

The price of diesel may have increased but that of gas even more.
In any case, diesel consumption is so negligible (let's say two liters a day) that it certainly costs less than gas.
For thirteen years I had Webasto Dual Top on the previous van.
When I ordered the current one I had no doubts, Truma DE (as an option, there was the gas one as standard).

Too much convenience and availability of diesel everywhere.

The only precaution when using diesel heaters is that they should be turned on for half an hour once a month, maximum two.

Max

p.s. Truma recently introduced an updated version of the D/DE.
As far as I know, the Eberspaecher heater was replaced by a proprietary one and now has the high altitude kit as standard.
The new model can be recognized by the exhaust pipe: square in the first series, round and similar to the gas version in the new one.

[Tracker]

My only experience of diesel heating was with an Eberspacher in an Autocruise some years ago.

It worked very well when it worked but not only was ours unreliable, with competent repair people thin on the ground when you needed help, it needed a very well charged leisure battery to keep firing it up when on thermostat temperature control over a cold night, and you would not want to be parked next door to it as it's exhaust roared like a jet engine!

Over the years we had various Truma gas heated vans and, maybe we were lucky, we never had any problems with any of them.

So our preference back then was for gas using refillable bottles which worked well for us all over the EU. As soon as gas levels fell below 50% we would top up at the first availble opportunity.

We didn't use sites or EHU but if you do then perhaps an electric heater would be worth a thought?

Running costs were never the issue for us - staying warm was!

I can't speak for modern units and I am out of touch with the availability of LPG at filling stations.

[Zydeco Joe]

We have a underslung tank and this gives us the old gas locker as extra storage that is so valuable. Not had a problem getting gas some post about local stations not sell  gas but I never need it local as only use it when we are away so buy it when on travels , simple. Its the noise of diesel that bothers me plus the strain on the leisure battery . 

[Tracker]

Diesel heaters were originally designed for truck cabs for which they are ideal, having relatively small areas to heat, plenty of diesel in the tank, large capacity batteries fully charged by the day's mileage and regular daily use.

They also work well on a boat where gas is not always available but again as you can't bump start a boat you do need a large capacity well charged totally reliable leisure battery.

The battery charging regime on many newer vehicles does not fully charge the engine battery, on the alleged grounds of reducing emissions, I have no idea how or if this impacts on van engine or leisure battery charging on newer vans?

Edited February 26 by Tracker
add

[mtravel]

I can only be satisfied with diesel heating and would not go back to gas.
As I said, I have had the Webasto Dual Top for thirteen years and the Truma 6DE for almost four years.
With the Webasto I reached -20°C, with the Truma (for now) only at -4/-5.
Some people complain about the noise, comparing it to a jet taking off but perhaps that only applies to truck heaters.
The Dual Top made a bit of noise in the first few minutes when it had to reach the set temperature but it was mounted on the outside and you couldn't even hear it inside.
The Truma makes exactly the same noise as the gas one, mine is under the bed and you can't even hear it.
Once the set temperature is reached, both "modulate" and maintain it without problems.

Diesel:
Consumption is minimal, with a full tank you could last for weeks.
Batteries:
Except at the moment of ignition (10A for about two minutes, perhaps even less) it is equivalent to those of the gas one.
With two 80Ah gel batteries and the stove turned on 24 hours, two days can easily be done, even saving a little on three.
Gas and underslung tank:
In some countries this could be a problem. In France Total no longer sells it and probably some other brand will join.
In Italy (manned refueling only) the tank must be written on the vehicle document and at the pump refillable cylinders are prohibited.
In Finland LPG does not exist.
Then I don't know how many other nations have some supply problems.
EHU:
Both gas and diesel Truma has two powers available (900 and 1800W).
The first is sufficient only when the external temperature is at least ten degrees centigrade (good for reducing consumption, either gas or fuel)
The second could be too much in most campsites and rest areas.

Max

p.s. A large number of brands now offer the Truma 6DE as an option or, increasingly, as standard.
See for example the latest version of the Hymer Grand Canyon S which does not include the gas version.

[laimeduck]

21 hours ago, Tracker said:

Diesel heaters were originally designed for truck cabs for which they are ideal, having relatively small areas to heat, plenty of diesel in the tank, large capacity batteries fully charged by the day's mileage and regular daily use.

They also work well on a boat where gas is not always available but again as you can't bump start a boat you do need a large capacity well charged totally reliable leisure battery.

The battery charging regime on many newer vehicles does not fully charge the engine battery, on the alleged grounds of reducing emissions, I have no idea how or if this impacts on van engine or leisure battery charging on newer vans?

Rich ....by and large boats don't use gas for heating because it is an explosion risk. Gas is heavier than air and in a boat if there was a leak would sink into the bilges ... (hopefully the hull is air and watertight!). Very easy then to get an explosive mixture or gas and air. Same reason most boats are diesel powered, petrol vapour is explosive. My father had a friend who was a submariner in WW1 in petrol powered submarines. Their biggest worry was explosion, not any enemy!

Jeremy

[spirou]

Diesel heating without any regret or doubt. So infinitely easier to drive around aimlessly when you're not tied to finding a gas refill station every week or less. It's a bit like range anxiety with BE cars, gas always runs out on a weekend/public holiday far from any refill options.

But I guess it doesn't matter if you're only doing weekends and warm seasons.

[arthur49]

My experience of diesel heaters is such that I would have one in preference to gas if I were ordering a new van BUT

- on full bore they can be noisy: a significant "roar"

- continuous clicking from pump

- consider your neighbours as it can be noisier outside van, than in!

- need 10A+ on start up, maybe 5 mins max, then settle back to 3A approx, so heavier on 12v than gas heater

[onecal]

Hi Topper

It really is a very personal choice and it looks like you have made up your mind to go for the Diesel option.

They all , both Diesel and Gas have their advantages and disadvantages and they are all well highlighted in the comments from all here .

You say you are finding difficult to get gas at the moment , that also may be an issue with diesel in a few years time, also pollution laws (who knows) as everything is uncertain with energy at the moment.

The main thing no matter what option you go for Gas or Diesel is to go out there and enjoy yourself

Wishing you the  best of luck with your new motorhome 

Brendan

[mtravel]

3 hours ago, arthur49 said:

My experience of diesel heaters is such that I would have one in preference to gas if I were ordering a new van BUT

- on full bore they can be noisy: a significant "roar"

- continuous clicking from pump

- consider your neighbours as it can be noisier outside van, than in!

- need 10A+ on start up, maybe 5 mins max, then settle back to 3A approx, so heavier on 12v than gas heater

1. Maybe in the Webasto Air Top (or equivalent Eberspaecher), certainly not in the Truma 6D.

2. It depends on how the pump is installed, on silent blocks or not.
In mine, to hear it you really have to want to hear it.

3. See points 1 and 2 above.

4. As far as I know, when operational, the power consumption of the Truma 6 (average 1.4Amps) is equivalent to that of the 6D (from 1.8 to 4Amps, mainly modulating = 1.8Amps).

[Tracker]

4 hours ago, laimeduck said:

Rich ....by and large boats don't use gas for heating because it is an explosion risk. Gas is heavier than air and in a boat if there was a leak would sink into the bilges ... (hopefully the hull is air and watertight!).

Thanks Jeremy - having had a few boats over the years, both working and leisure, I am well aware of the risks but it did not seem relevant to mention it regarding a motorhome. Many boats, leisure and working, do use gas for cooking and heating but the connections were (in my day) always by secured copper tube with no flexible rubber used inside the hull, the gas bottle lockers were always well above water line, air tight to the interior of the hull and vented externally and the bottles secured within the locker. We also fitted a gas detector in the bilges.

[spirou]

Comparing a gas Truma 6e previously, to a Webasto Air Top now I'd say there's no significant difference in noise levels (in or out), power draw or heating effectiveness. You do lose on water heating but that's easily solved. Also can't hear any pump clicking I often see mentioned.

The only downside is that sometimes you can smell it outside if you're close and downwind of the exhaust. But that's also not too bad.

No experience with Truma 6d but given the option I'd take it over the gas version.

[GandJP]

I have a Chausson that had the Deisel heater as standard and I have to say I am very impressed with it. Yes it has its faults like some noise and battery consumption when off EH but all that aside its really good at what it does. My van has little capacity to hold enough gas to have gas as a fuel anyway so its not an option. I do very little in this country as far as touring and go to France as much as I am able to and getting gas there is not an issue as you can get it just about everywhere so when I come back I ensure I am as full as pos so I rarely if ever need to buy it over here now.  

[Topper]

On 27/02/2024 at 14:57, mtravel said:

1. Maybe in the Webasto Air Top (or equivalent Eberspaecher), certainly not in the Truma 6D.

2. It depends on how the pump is installed, on silent blocks or not.
In mine, to hear it you really have to want to hear it.

3. See points 1 and 2 above.

4. As far as I know, when operational, the power consumption of the Truma 6 (average 1.4Amps) is equivalent to that of the 6D (from 1.8 to 4Amps, mainly modulating = 1.8Amps).

Can I ask why not the Truma ? That’s the one on offer

[Topper]

On 25/02/2024 at 20:43, rayc said:

Is this a variant of the Truma combi operated by diesel with EH function i.e. heats water and space heating or is a separate space heater  e.g. Webasto /  Eberspacher / chinese with water heating still possible with gas/electric?

This is the Truma 6d e 

[Topper]

On 26/02/2024 at 14:36, Zydeco Joe said:

We have a underslung tank and this gives us the old gas locker as extra storage that is so valuable. Not had a problem getting gas some post about local stations not sell  gas but I never need it local as only use it when we are away so buy it when on travels , simple. It’s the noise of diesel that bothers me plus the strain on the leisure battery . 

Thanks Is that based on personal experience or what you have heard?

[Derek Uzzell]

Topper

This November 2023 MotorHomeFun thread may be worth reading.

https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/diesel-electric-combi-truma-heater-or-gas-electric.293777/

There's no doubt that the exhaust noise of diesel-fuelled heaters fitted to motorhomes in the past could be irritating to other campers parked nearby, but this no longer appears to be the case where current Truma Combi D heaters are concerned, with the main criticism relating to the fuel-pump 'ticking' (discussed at length above).

I'm intrigued by you having the option to specify a gas or a diesel-fuelled Truma heater, as that has got to be unusual. Is the motorhome a 'bespoke' design or, if not, what is its make and model?

[mtravel]

16 hours ago, Topper said:

Can I ask why not the Truma ? That’s the one on offer

I read someone claim that Webastos are loud "like jets taking off".

I do not dispute this statement but my previous Webasto Dual Top had an exhaust silencer and it never seemed particularly noisy to me.

But that's another story, I don't think it's still in production.

However, I can guarantee that the Truma 6D makes absolutely no noise, mine is under the bed and I would notice it.

Max

[Brian Kirby]

In addition to Derek's point above, there are three other things that may be worth clarifying.

First, your intended use of your new van.  Do you envisage mainly short-term use (weekend breaks, two/three week holidays, possibly relatively frequently) or longer term, possibly Continental, use when you will be away for 1, 2, possibly more, months at a time (as allowed by Schengen etc. limits).  Also, do you envisage your use being more or less year round, or concentrated at certain times of year.  Plus, would these involve mainly camp sites, or will you be using the van mainly "off-grid".

Second, what type of cooking facility does the van provide?  I.e. just a hob, or hob + oven?

Third, what type of fridge (freezer?) is offered?  I.e. compressor, or "three way".

I ask, because, the decision regarding diesel heating (using fuel from the van's fuel tank) or gas heating (via an underslung gas tank) bears on more than just heating alone.

For instance, with gas, the supply will also fuel a "three way" fridge and a normal gas fired hob/oven.  So, one fuel supplies all "life support" requirements.  In addition, with a mains electrical supply (which mitigates in favour of campsites with EHU) you will also get some electrical heating availability (possibly augmented by gas in more severe conditions) plus your fridge will happily run on mains electricity.  This, in turn, means much reduced gas consumption and so less frequent need for "top-ups", as your main gas demand will be for cooking.

However, if the fridge on offer is compressor type you will probably need to augment the habitation battery capacity, which may become problematic in conjunction with diesel heating and so, if intending to use the van extensively off grid and year round, the ability to house and charge the augmented battery bank needs  careful consideration.

I'm unaware of diesel fuelled hobs/ovens (they may exist, that is just a limitation of my knowledge 🙂), so I assume cooking appliances will still require gas to be carried.  Equally, I'm unaware of diesel fuelled fridges (ditto above 🙂), so if off-grid, you will either require gas on board or a compressor fridge with further enhanced leisure battery capacity (see above).

I believe some mains electric cookers/hobs are available for motorhome/caravan use, but all rely on a 230V supply (I doubt cooking off-grid on a mains cooker via an inverter would be practical - but even so the issue of accommodating and charging the requisite battery bank, as above for fridges, arises).

It seems that "autogas" demand is gradually diminishing, and that the economics for fuel stations of maintaining their autogas installations is resulting in their abandonment or removal.  It also seems this is destined to continue to the extent that they will, eventually, disappear.  OTOH, cylinder gas supplies seem somewhat more secure, especially in remoter rural areas (perhaps more in mainland Europe than UK) where the smaller cylinders (13kg and below) fuel many domestic cookers.  So, a van with an underslung gas tank may be more vulnerable to fuelling difficulties than one in which the gas comes from cylinders.

In short. there is no "ideal" solution.  What one has to seek is the "least worst" compromise that suits one's intended pattern of use.

So if intending to use the van mainly on camp sites, mainly between, say May and October, when there is little foreseeable demand for heating, and especially if intending to head South in Europe, I'd (caveat as above! 🙂) be inclined to go for a van with gas/electric heating via exchange cylinders in preference to a fixed tank, gas cooking appliances, and a "three way" fridge.

OTOH, at the opposite extreme, if intending to go, and stay, off-grid as much as possible, in cold weather, I think one really needs a bespoke van with a high capacity battery bank, a compressor fridge, enhanced battery charging via a higher output alternator as well as solar charging, probably diesel fuelled heating, and a limited cylinder gas capacity reserved just for cooking.

Most of us will be somewhere between the extremes, and getting the optimal balance between availability of mains electrical supply, availability of gas, balance of domestic appliance energy requirements, and overall costs, is very difficult to get achieve.  It requires balancing the "must haves" with the "nice to haves" without landing one's self with a huge bill and a load of "stuff" one never seems to use!

What I'm really saying is that, to me, the pros and cons of the choice of one or other type of heating fuel seems to be have acquired too high a priority - unless you specifically intend using your van extensively off-grid and in colder areas/seasons.

Under our present uncertain energy supply circumstances I think I'd look for a van that offers the greatest flexibility and future adaptability in terms of energy sources, which I think points to either diesel or cylinder gas for heating, as the continuing availability of autogas seems most in doubt.

After all, if you can't get diesel - unless your van will be an "E" van - you won't be driving very far in any case, so cylinder gas seems the least worst choice.  Which is a shame, because it seems the one option that is not available for your preferred van.  But maybe seeking a solution to that conundrum is what prompted your original question.  I hesitate to ask, but have you considered any alternative vans?

[Keithl]

12 minutes ago, Brian Kirby said:

I'm unaware of diesel fuelled hobs/ovens (they may exist, that is just a limitation of my knowledge 🙂)...

Brian,

Have a look at the Wallas XC Duo https://www.campervanheating.co.uk/

Keith.

[mtravel]

40 minutes ago, Keithl said:

Brian,

Have a look at the Wallas XC Duo https://www.campervanheating.co.uk/

Keith.

Webasto has been selling diesel fuelled hobs for years but I've honestly never seen one.

As for Wallas, I would also think about support abroad.

Easy to find a Webasto service point. Wallas?

[Zydeco Joe]

21 hours ago, Topper said:

Thanks Is that based on personal experience or what you have heard?

Personal experience,

Tank is on our van and has been good for us and not just cheaper gas. The space gained is most likely the best part worth more to us.

As for Diesel heater one parked up early this year inland Spain was noisy on the outside so how bad inside who knows ,too much for us like quiet.

Edited March 15 by Zydeco Joe