Melvin Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Just contacted Fiat today and yesterday regarding the engine mounts, it would appear Justin is back to his old games. ie not taking calls. All I get is a runaround and we will phone you back. Fiat have or never had any intetion of fixing these vans, they are calling your bluff, they know in your wildest dreams you cannot afford to take a legal action. They will defend any action rigerously in ordr for you to run out of funds, it could easily run into seven figures >:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Usinmyknaus Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Melvin - 2009-02-24 10:48 AM Just contacted Fiat today and yesterday regarding the engine mounts, it would appear Justin is back to his old games. ie not taking calls. All I get is a runaround and we will phone you back. Fiat have or never had any intetion of fixing these vans, they are calling your bluff, they know in your wildest dreams you cannot afford to take a legal action. They will defend any action rigerously in ordr for you to run out of funds, it could easily run into seven figures >:-) Melvin, as I understand it, your disadvantaged position is the type of situation which the Civil Justice Council is seeking to address. I hope their initiative fulfills its initial promise. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike 202 Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 I wonder how much it would cost to start an action, then it could be publicised that UK Motorhome owners take Fiat to court over Juddergate. Job done, public fully aware of the way Fiat etc treat customers, then the case if becoming costly could be abandoned. So far Fiat have run owners ragged, caused protests such as the T-shirt or leave a leaflet at NEC to be abandoned, because owners have given them tha benefit of the doubt. Bit like crying wolf too many times, eventually whatever Fiat say will not be believed and if they get well and truly stuffed, than they only have themselves to blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melvin Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Melvin - 2009-02-24 10:48 AM Just contacted Fiat today and yesterday regarding the engine mounts, it would appear Justin is back to his old games. ie not taking calls. Justin has called back, I believe I was wrong to make the last remark :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike 202 Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Melvin your comment "Justin has just called back" - Why did he call ? Did he read your post?, or was he just out of office ?. Whatever the reason did you get any promises or concrete actions, you didn't say Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zulurita Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Usinmyknaus - 2009-02-24 9:49 AM The clock appears to be ticking for FIAT to resolve this issue amicably, or face the prospect of a class action – something which generally, companies have not had to fear in the UK. The December 2008 proposals from the Civil Justice Council to reform the class actions system in England and Wales may lead to fundamental changes for consumers’ rights. Their publication: “Improving Access Through Collective Actions – Developing a More Effective and Efficient Procedure for Collective Actions” recommends reform of existing multi party mechanisms to provide for actions to be brought on behalf of classes of consumers or businesses. I quote: “Launching the paper, CJC Chief Executive, Robert Musgrove said: “The Council’s recommendations have the clear potential to improve access to justice for both consumers and small business. Research has shown that individual consumers find it difficult to exercise their rights, and obtain access to the courts, and are often put off by cost and complexity. Developing a procedure that will allow them to act collectively, or to allow legitimate bodies to represent identified classes of consumers, should bring benefits not only to the consumers themselves, but also have a much wider beneficial effect on the market economy. Defendants may also see the benefits of certainty and finality against the potential of having to defend many individual actions over years in the courts. The paper is the result of two and a half years of extensive consultation and research. It is not a licence to lawyers or funders to drum up litigation for personal profit, but an improvement in access to justice to allow legitimate claims to be brought.” So perhaps it will not be long before all those affected will have recourse to justice – hopefully “no win no fee” style. I understand there are plenty of UK law firms with time and under-worked lawyers looking for something worthwhile to do at the moment..... See www.civiljusticecouncil.gov.uk.for more info. Bob Thanks Bob, Guess that is the way to go if things are not sorted soon! Collectively would be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyStothert Posted February 24, 2009 Author Share Posted February 24, 2009 Just in case you are interested in how Fiat's Engine Mounting Cure (which has taken 18 months to perfect) is coming along last week they did 5 vans - yes 5. The results so far are 3 owners completely unsatisfied with the results, one hasn't yet had time to test it, and the other broke the gearbox whilst testing it with the Fiat technician in attendance. Now forgive me if I'm being a touch sarcastic but these are not great results for Fiat are they? 18 soddin' months development and the modification still has these things eating gearboxes when faced with reversing up a steep hill. We all know they have modified the gearbox on the current production models, and that they can afford to fix a few motorhomes properly, but still they want to evade their responsibilities. Pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinfrier Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Various ideas have been put forward to get FIAT to sit up and take notice none have been fully sucesfull to date SO what about a mass drive around FIAT HQ UK with X250 owners displaying signs in their side windows telling the JUDDER story if you got say 100 angry owners to take part in a 3 hour circular drive past it would be enough to attract the local press and TV and cause great anguish to FIAT cost would be small to each owner I will take part when in UK in June.Why not get a list up of those willing to take part Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 I was going to say massed drive around Peterborough showground, but as there will be loads of vans maybe little impact, so around Fiat UK headquarters it is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike 202 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 colinfrier - 2009-02-24 10:59 PM Various ideas have been put forward to get FIAT to sit up and take notice none have been fully sucesfull to date SO what about a mass drive around FIAT HQ UK with X250 owners displaying signs in their side windows telling the JUDDER story if you got say 100 angry owners to take part in a 3 hour circular drive past it would be enough to attract the local press and TV and cause great anguish to FIAT cost would be small to each owner I will take part when in UK in June.Why not get a list up of those willing to take part Why is it that the most brilliant, easiest, and cheapest solution is the simplest - WELL DONE Colin. The other ideas were good, but the effect and audience would be the closed M'home community. Remember the taxi protests, they got National TV coverage. Even if the rest of the country could't care less about the X250 plight the public love the underdog and it would make for the TV companies a cost effective broadcast, something different to show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Usinmyknaus Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Sounds a great idea to me as an interested observer, but it needs a good turn out. If I did not already know about the issue it would certainly catch my attention as a member of the public watching the item. Perhaps with AndyStothert or suitable media savvy others interviewed on BBC Breakfast, GMTV etc - should make dealers and converters put pressure on FIAT. The protest might also provide an opportunity to say via the media that owners are looking for a commercial law firm to mount a class action on a no win no fee basis? One big risk of course is that the publicity may hasten the devaluation of your own vans in the second hand market unless a real fix or adequate compensation is obtained. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Swift Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 That's a fair point but, what value does a second hand X250 that can't reverse properly have?? or a new one even?? What would you pay for one? Is the "damage" done with several thousand M/Homers knowing about this problem now?? If purchasers modify their buying behaviour because of this then the motorhome world could be in a for a huge change. Although and this must be the key point - I am not sure that their purchasing behaviour is changing. Psychology Ned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Usinmyknaus Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Fair point Ned. I would not buy a new or used X250 until the price was so low as to make it a "no brainer" and I cannot at present envisage how low that price would have to be to mitigate the risk to me as a purchaser. I simply felt I should, in fairness, mention that publicity has a (admittedly, fairly obvious) risk. I very much hope that the advantage outweighs the disadvantage. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melvin Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Value of a 2008 Autotrail Cheynne 660 SE, 2100 miles registered in May 2008, in part exchange for a new Cheynne 840 3 litre Comfortmatic £33,000, does that help, and no I not buying. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Swift Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Melvin What was the original price? Ned (?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Hunt Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Apologies if this has appeared before but report on the What Van website on the Fiat judder goes on to quote Peugeot as follows “We were using a software download to deal with it, but things have now gone beyond that,” says a Peugeot spokesman. “If the vehicle is fitted with a six-speed gearbox then we’ll either change the reverse gear or replace the entire ’box depending on which final drive ratio has been specified. “We’ll have a similar fix available for the five-speed ’box in a few weeks time.” Half-a-dozen or so six-speed ’boxes have been swapped so far and Boxer owners are being encouraged to contact their local Peugeot dealer if they believe they have a problem. If this proves to be accurate then will Fiat have no option but to follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest johnllewellyn94 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 i don;t have ? one of motors with this problem thank god but do the lates still have the problem and if so why are the converters still using them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyStothert Posted February 25, 2009 Author Share Posted February 25, 2009 The last two postings are great are they not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melvin Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 £44,000.00 :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Has anyone noticed by how much this string is now the daddy of them all? Nearly 1,200 posts: but just look at the number of viewings! Nearly 60,000!! And no-one of those 60,000 viewers will have seen anything from Fiat to inspire confidence that:a) their van, if affected by juddering, will be fully rectified.b) if they buy a van currently in stock, that it will be free of this fault, andc) that Fiat has definitively solved the problem, has introduced production modifications to eliminate it, and from what date.In truth, I feel sorry for those at Fiat UK, because they are taking the stick for a problem they did not make, and are powerless to solve. They are totally in the hands of the parent company, and it seems the parent is not saying what they intend, and is restraining what the UK subsidiary can say. I also suspect more than a few must be frustrated beyond endurance, and seriously concerned about their jobs.Fabbrica Italiana Automobili Torino really needs to realise just how much damage their intransigence is doing to their company. I like Italy, and Italians, and for that matter the Fiats I have owned, but the company's present management seems to be in total myopic denial over this problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melvin Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Van booked in for monday, I just hope the gearbox hold out, I never dare tepmted a steep hill in reverse in this van, it judders bad enough on the flat *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 ..deleted as double posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Melvin - 2009-02-25 3:43 PM Van booked in for monday, I just hope the gearbox hold out, I never dare tepmted a steep hill in reverse in this van, it judders bad enough on the flat *-) Ahhhh but! think about it this way, if your box does not hold out then Fiat will have to fit a new box, it will have the mods and you will be better off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melvin Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Bramble, But expecting and getting may be a different story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Swift Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Melvin I understand why you didn't change the van. Who could loose £11000 in a year and continue the fault with a new van. I feel sorry for Fiat UK too, their hands are tied and they must be dreading going to work, having trouble sleeping etc etc. Some manager there must have HORRIFIC BLOOD PRESSURE. What about a FIAT UK EMERGENCY FUND (for staff welfare) - would the BBC be prepared to show it??? Could we chip in a few quid?? Dr Ned :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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