urbanracer Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 rolandrat - 2009-02-20 5:23 PM Just a thought, how many 1in5 hills are there in the UK? WHY? Do you use the underground ramp to your pad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zulurita Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 It is all very depressing :-( had hopped to have a cure by now :-( Not very happy at having to start the new season without having the judder fault sorted! Looks like I will NOT be buying a FIAT based vehicle again!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyStothert Posted February 20, 2009 Author Share Posted February 20, 2009 The bad news from the owners who have had the revised engine mountings fitted is that they haven't reduced the juddering on the transmission sufficiently to be acceptable. The worse news is that it hasn't (and it obviosuly wasn't going to) stop the clutch burning on attempting to reverse up a steep hill. The worse than ever inews is that 3 out of 4 report that there is now an increased level of noise and vibration going forwards in all gears. So Fiat have not improved the problem we all face for probably less than 1% of driving time (reversing), but in the process have worsened the driving experience of going forwards which accounts for 99% of the driving. This is a complete farce. And the even worse still news is that Fiat can't confirm whether the modified gearbox is now in production? So it looks like they are still coing out of the factory with the same defect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melvin Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 AndyStothert - 2009-02-20 5:22 PM I've had several emails from owners who have had the revised engine mountings fitted. There 's bad news and there's even worse news. Which do you want first? Come on Andy, dont keep is suspence. I am asumming then modified engine mounted are applifiing the transmission vibration and Fiat are offering no furture action or am I wrong >:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike 202 Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 robertandjean - 2009-02-19 8:09 PM Hi, Before ordering new Swift Escape at NEC on Tuesday checked with both Swift and Fiat that new van would have modification (5 speed box). Both assured us would have, so looks like modification is now working through, so better news, it would seem, for new buyers of Fiat based vans. Jean and Robert. FIRST - have you read Andy's last post, it is worrying. SECOND - Have you got the above in writing - if not get it done straight away. If your dealer will not give it in writing then maybee you should consider distrusting your dealer and consider cancelling your order Caveat Emptor rules and of course it your call in the end. I made a wrong decision and it cost me over £4k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 robertandjean - 2009-02-19 8:09 PM Hi, Before ordering new Swift Escape at NEC on Tuesday checked with both Swift and Fiat that new van would have modification (5 speed box). Both assured us would have, so looks like modification is now working through, so better news, it would seem, for new buyers of Fiat based vans. Jean and Robert. Not only should this assurance have been confirmed in writing, it should have been a condition written into your order. Then, if the van judders in reverse you would then have clear grounds for rejection. However, I do think you would have been much wiser to stay clear of the Sevel base until there is proof positive that the fault has been eliminated. In the meantime, I wish you judder free motorhoming, and all the luck that will require. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chudders Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 I may be a bit thick but this reverse gearbox problem has not been of too much interest to me until now. I have a Fiat ducato maxi base unit at the moment but am thinking of buying a newer motorhome. I have been pleased with the Fiat and was thinking of another one. Could anyone tell me at what year/model/engine confiruration I should avoid. I,m sure others on the forum know only too well judging by all the discussion. Tahnks, David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chudders Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Don,t know what has happened to my previous message so apologise if I end up posting twice. Anyway my querie is, as I am thinking of buying a newer Fiat based motorhome, what date/ model engine configuration is causing the gearbox problem. After what date of base vehicle should I avoid. Thanks Dave Edited Yep, sorry both post now appear, wish I could delete one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Well robert&Jean I would not really agree with last two posts. I to had a Fiat based van on order last year and because the Fiat drove better than the competition and their was no alternative with the van we wanted simply changed our order from the six speed to the five speed model. I even spoke to Andy on the telephone beforehand to discuss the problems. I decided to go ahead with the five speed box and have now covered some 9000 miles since last April with not a moments trouble. It does not get water in the engine and does not shudder in reverse. Now as everyone agrees the problem is reverse gear ratio all vans must react the same so I see no reason why yours should not be ok. Nothing to stop you getting it in writing of course as Brian suggest. Hope you enjoy it, am sure you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Losos Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Colin9591 - 2009-02-20 6:22 PM At least I am now assured that both Fiart build quality and customer service fall well below my expectations and I'm now actively researching alternative vehicles. A few grand more for a nice Mercedes seems cheap if it brings peace of mind and reliability. Needless to say I regret not having realised this sooner and am a bit miffed at the time I've wasted waiting for Fiart to do the right thing. Leopards and spots it seems. Cheers Colin Colin, I am a long way behind you in the selection process but can only agree with you. I would like a Mercedes based MH too, not sure it'll be possible financialy. Please let us know what you finally decide, would be most useful to me and no doubt save me a lot of time too!! (Found someone today who only does Merc. but sadly he seems to have ceased trading!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin9591 Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 rolandrat - 2009-02-20 5:23 PM Just a thought, how many 1in5 hills are there in the UK? How many do you need? I live on a 1 in 4 cul-de-sac. If I drive in forwards then I have to reverse out and uphill to go anywhere. Yes, I know that I could drive past my house and freewheel backwards onto the drive but that just accounts for home. What about the unforeseen reversing on a minor 1 in 5 road out on the moors, miles from anywhere, 200yds. backards and a burnt out clutch? Cheers Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertandjean Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Hi, Regarding our order for new Fiat based van then yes we have it written into order that is subject to being judder free. Swift assured both dealer, who did not know, and ourselves these vans would be built on modified version, hence dealer willing to agree to subject to.... But only time will tell and yes all may be well at first then a problem might show up; such is life. Thanks for advice, particularly Brian. Sorry if it upsets your campaign Andy, but after a lot of thought we have made what we think is a good decision. Good luck in resolving your problem and hope you will soon be able to reverse up steep narrow country lanes again with out problems. Jean and Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyStothert Posted February 21, 2009 Author Share Posted February 21, 2009 Chudders request for info is simple - if you MUST have one of these vans (supplied by a bunch of lying crooks) avoid the 6 speed versions. The 5 speed vans are lower geared and will still grumble and judder a bit in extreme circumstances, but as far as I know no damage has been reported to the transmission on the 5 speed 100bhp models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinfrier Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Very interesting what Andy says regarding those that have had the new mounts if it has not sorted the Judder then it may well force FIAT do take the next step i.e. Gearbox/Clutch.Do we know what FIAT have said about these vehicles that still Judder despite new engine mounts?. I for one can live with the occasional thump on start up and don't want to sacrifice the excellent forward driving of X250 2.3 so am not keen to have my engine mounts changed. Thinking of buying FIAT look at the way they have dealt with the leaks and reversing problems how much faith does that give you in FIAT being an honest and customer orientated manufacturer when it comes to problems compare with someone like HONDA or HYUNDAI. Don't give yourself endless worry and heartache every time I go on a journey I think will I make it? N.B. no judder does not equal no problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Usinmyknaus Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Scenario: You are contemplating investing £50,000 of your life savings in a financial product about which many questions have been raised concerning both its income generating capacity and its ability to maintain its capital value. Despite widespread concern on web forums and in the press, the provider is still regularly publishing flashy adverts extolling the remarkable virtues and market-beating potential of the product. You are sorely tempted to invest, the claimed benefits look too good to miss, but you only have one chance to get this right. There is a small seed of disquiet in your waters that tells you the risk might be too great, that you could lose out badly and if you ever wanted to sell the investment who would buy it? What would you get back if the product is shown to be deeply flawed or just goes bust? Would you end up having to put in still more capital over the years just to keep the investment alive? You go to a highly skilled accountant and pay him to assess the risk and advise you. On the balance of probabilities is he more likely to suggest that you avoid the flashy, riskier product and instead go for one of the tried, tested and possibly boring older products costing about the same or a little more but with better reputations? If he advises caution and you decide to ignore the accountant's advice, and the disquiet in your waters, you are about to make one of the biggest and most important financial commitments of your life and you only have the power of choice up to the instant when you sign on the dotted line. It is then you have to ask yourself "Do I feel lucky?" Personally, I would follow a precautionary principle, and the accountant, but then I have never, ever trusted to luck. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libby Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 robertandjean, (and other potential buyers) Take note of the above post. I think you are totaly crazy and blind to the future taking on this vehicle and can only deserve all that may come your way. If you have problems everyone will pass the buck, right back to the factory and if you fancy fighting them so be it. Remember well, Nevillle Chamberlin waved a signed paper document when he returned from Munich after meeting Adolf Hitler. And how great was that !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 I can easily believe that Fiat and the others will from now on be supplying new vehicles that will be judder free in reverse. What is harder for me to believe is that they will provide a comprehensive solution to all the existing vehicles out there. I do suggest that any order for an X250 vehicle contain clauses to the effect that a) they are guaranteed to be judder free in reverse and b) free from water leaks into the engine compartment. Given the dire public relations shown by Fiat over this current fiasco and previous problems on earlier vehicles, why are so many of you taking the risk? What is wrong with the Transit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libby Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 spospe "I can easily believe that Fiat and the others will from now on be supplying ..." WHY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
judderer Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 To Robert & Jean plus anyone else who has ordered the problematic x250 in the belief (promised by dealers etc) that thier van will be an exception! I offer the following advice/food for thought. (^) If you have it in writing that your new pride & joy will be free from judder then why not insist on a thorough test drive (inc reverse on hills) before paying the balance (?) I say this because I and many others have found that once you have paid the balance your dealer will happily let you try & get your money back through the courts,knowing it will cost you thousands of pounds & you just won't want to do that *-) If he only has the deposit & the vehicle judders (& he refuses to return your deposit ) then you have risked less & can at least explore the small claims court route for your deposit back. I dearly hope you have been told the truth :-S But as in the Profumo affair it is a case of "They would say that wouldn't they ?" Good luck whatever you decide to do. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 libby I can easily believe that Fiat will be supplying judder free gearboxes from now on for the simple reason that if the problem is caused by too high a reverse gear, then it will cost no (or little) more to supply the correct ratio. There is no reason to suppose now that they have had the problem forcibly pointed out to them, that they will not correct it FOR NEW vans. The main problem seems to be concerning the existing judderers (and don't forget the water leakers). Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinfrier Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Don't forget JUDDER FREE IS NOT PROBLEM FREE and what about all the stock laying about all over Europe it will be a long time before we see production vehicles fully corrected ie lower ratio gearbox and improved clutch. I suggest promise of Judder free vehicles will only be engine mount changes waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertandjean Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Hi, When replied earlier missed comment from Rupert123, which is much more positive and supports our view that the chances of problems with the 5 speed box are very very small. So no we have not made a rash, unthoughtout purchase and no we do not believe everything sales people tell us. But despite all the doom and gloom we are still happy; thanks for those of you giving supportive comments and we look forward to taking van to France. If we do have problems then we will not worry, but simply look to changing again quickly. OK we will take a hit but we change every 2/3 years in any event. What we certainly will not do is attempt to battle with Fiat, etc which is just too much aggrivation to contemplate. Robert and Jean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowley Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Robert and Jean wrote--When replied earlier missed comment from Rupert123, which is much more positive and supports our view that the chances of problems with the 5 speed box are very very small. If you search through the threads you will find that people have got problems with the 5 speed box. The reverse gear is definitely too high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libby Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Hi spospe I think you're ALL off your trolley's for believing FIAT stories. OK it's just a couple of gears is suggested. ....Laboratory proving - Foundry - Machining - Distribution worldwide - Workshop storage - Plus labour. How's about £5 million for a start. I admire your confidence Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 rowley - 2009-02-21 8:46 PM Robert and Jean wrote--When replied earlier missed comment from Rupert123, which is much more positive and supports our view that the chances of problems with the 5 speed box are very very small. If you search through the threads you will find that people have got problems with the 5 speed box. The reverse gear is definitely too high. As Andy has stated he has no recorded problems with the five speed box. Now I have one and as mine is the same as every else's and I have never had a problem how do you explain this. I have tried reversing it up a fairly steep hill and it was fine. How can you make the statement reverse is to high, do you have one or have you tried. I have no connection with Fiat and no 'axe to grind' just telling it as it is. If you or anyone cannot accept that then tough. If someone cannot reverse a five speed then suggest some driving lessons would be in order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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