Billggski Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 Just bought a space saver wheel for my new car. So I now have a bottle of gunge with compressor and a spare. Belt and braces! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 My van came with a spare wheel and the standard Sevel jack kit. Whilst I wouldn't anticipate any problems in changing a front wheel there's little chance of changing a rear one. With a rear wheel on it's rim the under-floor spare could only come out rearwards as it wouldn't come out sideways past the chassis and it would be a claustrophobic crawl in underneath on your back with your nose against the floor to fetch it. Then the jack would have little or no chance of working as the jacking point would only be c. 100mm off the ground and a scissor jack in its 'flat' state is much too highly geared to lifting the load. The only jack that could work would be a low profile trolley jack, but then that would be another 20Kg to lug around. By the way, if anyone wants a Michelin Agilis Camping in 215/70R15 size as a spare then PM me as I have two 2014 dated ones both 40 miles old sitting in the garage available for very little money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 Steve928 - 2016-03-08 8:54 AM With a rear wheel on it's rim the under-floor spare could only come out rearwards as it wouldn't come out sideways past the chassis and it would be a claustrophobic crawl in underneath on your back with your nose against the floor to fetch it. Then the jack would have little or no chance of working as the jacking point would only be c. 100mm off the ground... The answer here would be to gently drive your flat tyre up onto either your levelling ramp or a piece of wood to get back to a normal chassis height before jacking and then remove the block when fitting your spare. Simple really! Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 Keithl - 2016-03-08 9:19 AM The answer here would be to gently drive your flat tyre up onto either your levelling ramp or a piece of wood to get back to a normal chassis height before jacking and then remove the block when fitting your spare. Simple really! Keith. Yes I had thought of that Keith but suspect that with the diagonally opposing front wheel 'light' there may be insufficient traction to use the levelling ramps at least and I don't carry any suitable timber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 If anyone is interested I've used a company called Tyres On Your Drive phone number 0800 433 4829 or 01437 741 0308. They are country wide and can fit any tyre at your home. Their prices are very competitive. They use specially converted fully fitted vans. They quoted me £102 for a Continental Camper plus tyre disposal, balancing and torqueing and checking pressures of all the tyres. The total came to £117 which I was very happy with. I will definitely use them again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted March 8, 2016 Author Share Posted March 8, 2016 Thanks everyone , some very good answer's . Not sure what we will do as yet because we already have to have a big wheelchair external carrier . (foldup and down back plate ) fitted . This weight will come off the payload . One idea might be to buy a wheelholder something like of the back of a 4x4 and bolt it on underneath the wheelchair carrier , again we will have to see how blinking heavy this is going to be. No so far we have been lucky but I do worry that I am stuck somewhere with the children waiting . Its not the end of the world , just a worry . When we finally retire and its just him & me then I don't personally care if we are stuck for days . thanks again guysx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 Michele, are you still considering an AT Dakota or Rapido 9005? If so, doesn't the AT come with a spare as standard? It seems it does from the illustrations. Don't know about the Rapido. However, regarding the wheelchair and rack, do you know how much they will weigh? The Dakota looks to me to have significant rear overhang that, with a wheelchair rack added, would become a very long overhang indeed. There is a legal limit on the extent of rear overhang relative to wheelbase (sorry can't remember what), but if I'm correctly imagining the arrangement this could become a real problem. Also, if the wheelchair is heavy, it is going to place a much higher load on the rear axle, meaning it will quickly run out of payload. Apart from potential overload on the rear axle, this may give you some very strange driving characteristics with a heavy load waving around at the rear, and not much load on the front tyres. The same may be true for the Rapido, but I can't find a decent side view to judge the rear overhang. Couldn't you find a van that would take the wheelchair in the rear "garage", where it would be closer to the rear axle (so less overload risk) and would also stay much cleaner in transit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Brian Rapido does not offer a spare-wheel on any of its coachbuilt models, neither as standard nor as an option. I believe the Rapido 9005dFH motorhome Michele has expressed an interest in is the one at Highbridge Caravans. The photos of this vehicle suggest that it’s a Rapido “2014 collection” model, as the 2015 and 2016 versions have the rear window on the right-hand-side positioned higher up and a smaller right-hand-side garage door. I have attached a side-view photo and one showing the garage with its door open. The motorhome’s wheels will be 16” diameter carrying 225/75-profile tyres, but its anybody’s guess whether it would be practicable to accommodate a spare-wheel in the garage. The rear-overhang maximum can be 60% of the wheelbase, or based on a more complex formula involving a vehicle’s turning-circle that can increase the maximum to over 70% of the wheelbase. There’s also the question what ‘counts’ against the maximum, or is considered to be ‘load’ and can be ignored in the calculation. Michele plans to have a fold-up wheelchair carrier on the back: plainly the wheelchair itself would be a ‘load’, but I’m guessing that (rear-overhang-wise) the carrier would only ‘count’ in its folded-up position. Carrying the wheelchair is a necessity, but carrying a spare-wheel is not. I agree that it would be preferable to carry the wheelchair in a garage and, if the garage were large enough, that’s where it would make sense to put a spare-wheel tool. Carrying the wheelchair internally won’t be possible with a Rapido 9005dFH nor with an Auto-Trail Dakota - in both cases the wheelchair would need to be carried externally and, realistically, the idea of the Rapido carrying a spare-wheel is best forgotten unless it can be shoehorned into the rear garage. Moving from an AT Frontier Chieftain G to an AT Dakota or a Rapido 9005dFH involves significant ‘downsizing’, further complicated by the fact that Michele’s Chieftain’s specification has been optimised to safely carry disabled passengers and the wheelchairs, etc. they require. I think I’d be asking myself “Do I really NEED to replace the Chieftain at this point in time?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyg3nwl Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Hi Folks, Just been reading this through I would check you travel/breakdown insurance for continental use as I believe there is usually a clause somewhere which says you must have a spare wheel/tyre , or your insurance wont cover you, This certainly used to be in redpennant caravan club and I believe it referred to caravan cover.. not sure about motorhome cover, but surely it must be better to have a spare just in case, changing a wheel on holiday must be better that forking out extortionate prices for tyre etc from your holiday funds tonyg3nwl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Guys (and Gals), Michele has actually now bought the Rapido... michele - 2016-03-08 1:30 PM Guys, thank you all again , so many to mention. We have come away from the dealers a proud owner of the Rapido 9005 series , On the back of the Rapido we will have a funny contraption basicllay (I cant explain ) looks like one of them things you put a bike on . Anyway it folds up when not in use . They have been very helpful and given us the paperwork for the VAT man so so far all looking good. Thanks again to everyone x Quoted from her other thread on VAT... http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/VAT-Disability-whats-everyones-understanding-/41052/#M489736 Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Hey Ho... (Still worth checking whether or not a spare-wheel will go in the garage.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 tonyg3nwl - 2016-03-09 8:58 AM Hi Folks, Just been reading this through I would check you travel/breakdown insurance for continental use as I believe there is usually a clause somewhere which says you must have a spare wheel/tyre , or your insurance wont cover you, This certainly used to be in redpennant caravan club and I believe it referred to caravan cover.. not sure about motorhome cover, but surely it must be better to have a spare just in case, changing a wheel on holiday must be better that forking out extortionate prices for tyre etc from your holiday funds tonyg3nwl Insurance will usually cover you if the van does not come with a spare as standard equipment and you carry the emergency kit. I fail to see how carrying a spare will save paying out for another tyre, a failed tyre on a M/H is usually a wrecked tyre so unless you are prepared to finished your trip without a spare you will need to get it sorted anyway. I agree better to have a spare but sometimes not possible, my last two vans neither had the space for one, never bothered me one bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 The instant availability of a specific CP designated tyre cannot be guaranteed. The tyres tend to be batch produced, and there are well recorded instances when they have been in short supply, or simply unavailable. Depending on where you are at the time, and what the local supply situation is, not having a serviceable spare could, therefore, engender considerable delay or expense. My impression is that mixing a "CP" tyre and a "C" tyre on the same axle would not be legal in UK (and if legal, would be strongly discouraged). I'd be interested to know if this is correct. Beyond the matter of UK legality, other countries have differing regulations on what may legally be fitted. In France, for example, my understanding is that tyre fitters will not fit different tyres across an axle even if the tyre constructions are the same (number of plies, plus belt and sidewall ply composition etc). I understand that this rule has been applied even where tyres are of the same construction, type, size and make, but the tread patterns vary (where a tyre has been modified in production at a date after the originals were fitted). Then, your only option is to have a pair fitted, even though the remaining tyre is in good condition, with perfectly legal tread depth. Whereas that may be an extreme interpretation, I'm fairly certain that a French fitter would not fit a Michelin CP across an axle with a Continental CP, and would insist on both matching in all respects. Again, if anyone knows whether this is correct, I'd be interested to know. In the absence of fact, I think anyone using their van outside the UK would be wise to carry a spare; or else reconcile themselves to paying for two new tyres if they have the misfortune to damage a tyre beyond repair when no exactly matching replacement is readily available - or be prepared for a long wait with only three usable wheels! :-) As a general rule, tyres generally are notably more expensive in France than the UK. I can't comment on what the rules are on matching on an axle outside France, or on how prices elsewhere compare. Again, if anyone knows, it would be interesting to hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Brian, this is correct, I have personally come across it once, had a wrecked tyre on a car, not the M/H and fitter wanted to fit two tyres. I had a space saver tyre as a spare, however after I told him I was leaving France in two days time he fitted a new tyre of different make but same construction. On enquiring with my nieces French husband he confirmed this is correct. Why do you and others keep banging on though about not travelling without a spare, if like Michelle, and myself for around six years, had no spare and no room to fit one what are we supposed to do, well simply as I suggested, do not bother about it, carry the emergency stuff and get on with enjoying your trip. There is always a way around a puncture and if people are to incompetent or thick to sort it out then probably best they do not do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 rupert123 - 2016-03-09 4:39 PM..........................Why do you and others keep banging on though about not travelling without a spare, if like Michelle, and myself for around six years, had no spare and no room to fit one what are we supposed to do, well simply as I suggested, do not bother about it, carry the emergency stuff and get on with enjoying your trip. There is always a way around a puncture and if people are to incompetent or thick to sort it out then probably best they do not do it Can't answer for others, only for myself! :-) It's like insurance. I haven't, in 47 years of home ownership, yet experienced a house fire - but I still keep paying the premiums! So with a spare tyre. I would not buy a van that could not carry a spare. I'm not bothered whether one comes with it - I can always buy one - I just want to know that one can be carried. The last proper flat tyre I experienced (not counting the odd slow puncture from nails etc, which are easily dealt with) was when I parked in a narrowish, but fairly busy, street on a wet day, and the only available space had a deepish puddle against the kerb. Said puddle concealed a broken bottle. Said broken bottle cut through the sidewall of the tyre. Ever tried jacking up a car in a parking place, with the jack against the kerb? :-) I had a spare, but fitting it was not fun! Lesson? Expect the unexpected. We must all have driven our vans over unmade surfaces from time to time, and we must all have seen objects in the road too late to avoid them, and crossed our fingers. So, if someone asks, as Michele did, I advise them to carry one - because of the unexpected. I'm not on a mission, I'm just giving my opinion, and now I've explained why I hold it! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Slightly of topic, but as Brian says re house insurance. We have been house owners for 57 years, and always had home insurance. 15 years ago, we had a house fire, which cost £ thousands of pounds to repair. As it happened we where in the process of selling that house , so the new owner got a completely newly renovated property. You don't realise how much every thing adds up to, we only had the clothes we where wearing, for a start (I had 30 pairs of shoes, in those days!!) (we also had the decorators who did the work on Windsor Castle after the fire) but that's another story! I can assure you that We had not paid in premiums of 42 years , the amount the fire cost. even if we had paid £500,00 (£21, 000) a year, which we had not. So carry a spare if possible, I would say OK back to subject PJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Brian Kirby - 2016-03-09 6:34 PM rupert123 - 2016-03-09 4:39 PM..........................Why do you and others keep banging on though about not travelling without a spare, if like Michelle, and myself for around six years, had no spare and no room to fit one what are we supposed to do, well simply as I suggested, do not bother about it, carry the emergency stuff and get on with enjoying your trip. There is always a way around a puncture and if people are to incompetent or thick to sort it out then probably best they do not do it Can't answer for others, only for myself! :-) It's like insurance. I haven't, in 47 years of home ownership, yet experienced a house fire - but I still keep paying the premiums! So with a spare tyre. I would not buy a van that could not carry a spare. I'm not bothered whether one comes with it - I can always buy one - I just want to know that one can be carried. The last proper flat tyre I experienced (not counting the odd slow puncture from nails etc, which are easily dealt with) was when I parked in a narrowish, but fairly busy, street on a wet day, and the only available space had a deepish puddle against the kerb. Said puddle concealed a broken bottle. Said broken bottle cut through the sidewall of the tyre. Ever tried jacking up a car in a parking place, with the jack against the kerb? :-) I had a spare, but fitting it was not fun! Lesson? Expect the unexpected. We must all have driven our vans over unmade surfaces from time to time, and we must all have seen objects in the road too late to avoid them, and crossed our fingers. So, if someone asks, as Michele did, I advise them to carry one - because of the unexpected. I'm not on a mission, I'm just giving my opinion, and now I've explained why I hold it! :-D No Brian, go back and read her post again. What she asked was what do you do if you have no spare and get a puncture, no mention of is it best to have a spare. I feel we probably all agree on that but if you do not have one and have no space for one telling people they should have one is no help at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 I've had 2 motorway blowouts over the years so wouldn't be without a spare. Draper make an extending heavy duty wheel brace with a reversible (2 size) 1/2" socket on the end which I'm going to take with us from now on. Got it on eBay for about £6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 rupert123 - 2016-03-09 8:14 PM........................No Brian, go back and read her post again. What she asked was what do you do if you have no spare and get a puncture, no mention of is it best to have a spare. I feel we probably all agree on that but if you do not have one and have no space for one telling people they should have one is no help at all. Yes, and no, Henry. :-) Michele also asked "Do people buy spares and cart with them ?". I happen to know that she is also considering a new van, so assume her questions were in relationship to what she intends buying. So, as she has not yet bought (so far as I know), I answered her last question with the advice to make sure she could have a spare. Answering as you describe would, indeed, have been unhelpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Brian Kirby - 2016-03-10 3:10 PM I happen to know that she is also considering a new van, so assume her questions were in relationship to what she intends buying. So, as she has not yet bought (so far as I know)... Brian, You're a bit behind the times, see my post at the top of this page from 09.34 yesterday morning... Quote "Guys (and Gals), Michele has actually now bought the Rapido... " Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Apologies Keith, you're right, I hadn't seen that, or Derek's picture of the Rapido. Looks OK to me! The garage looks a fair size on paper (at least, the door looks to be wide enough to pass a spare), so it may be possible to carry one flat on the floor, possibly even upright. The rear overhang also looks shorter in relation to wheelbase than the AT, so rear axle load shouldn't suffer too much. About 700kg payload, which isn't that great for a van of that size. But, it seems pretty well specified so she shouldn't have to add much. Good choice, I reckon. Hope you enjoy it, Michele. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Charles - 2016-03-10 7:41 AM I've had 2 motorway blowouts over the years so wouldn't be without a spare. Draper make an extending heavy duty wheel brace with a reversible (2 size) 1/2" socket on the end which I'm going to take with us from now on. Got it on eBay for about £6 Make sure one of the socket sizes will fit your van wheel nuts. They are aimed at car size nuts. We had to buy a suitable size half inch socket for ours. Better check now rather than find out when you need it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webby1 Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Rupert thanks for a measured post about this obsession with the spare wheel/tyre. Granted in a ideal world carry a spare wheel, alternator,water pump etc etc. (My) Breakdown insurance covers you if a tyre was not supplied as standard..........so you get recovered to a garage where you pay over the odds for a tyre (what ???? 10 times the cost) OR wait in your lovely motorhome for one to be delivered (what???? 10 days to wait) OR you may never have a puncture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 RogerC - 2016-03-06 5:50 PM Carrying a spare tyre I can understand but considering the torque required to undo/re-torque the wheel nuts (muscles like Popeye required) has anyone actually managed to change a 'wheel' roadside without assistance? yes, many times over the years. Have a cheap extender to exert enough torque to undo a machine torqued wheel bolt. Having universal breakdown cover, is a relatively modern practise, it used to be only the AA or the RAC, and most drivers used to be capable of changing a wheel or other minor repairs. I would never buy a vehicle that didn't have a spare wheel, even if only a space saver, no spare wheel and a place to store it or No Sale. Never needed to carry a spare alternator or a water pump, but defiantly have needed a spare wheel on quite a few occasions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 The points, surely, are simple. First, if you have a spare, you can use it. If you don't, you can't. Second, you can't choose where you will get a flat. With a spare, on a campsite, on a weekday, during normal working ours, no problem. But with no spare, half way up an Alp, on a minor pass, on a Sunday, at 6:00 pm? Work it out. :-) Of course it may not happen, and it almost certainly won't in either of those ways. But, do you know when and where it will happen? Hence, insurance against the unexpected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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