They're still living in the dark ages.......

[Barryd999]

pelmetman - 2017-03-21 5:31 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-03-21 4:38 PM

 

I am not hearing any solutions whatsoever from you or the rest of the mob, just the usual lefty loony tree hugger stuff.

 

 

Meanwhile in the real world Barry ;-) .......Seeing all the problems migrants are currently causing in the EU, what chance do you tree huggers have of convincing the EU public to accept more refugee's ? >:-) .....

 

 

I am going to bang my head against a brick wall in a minute Dave!!!! Remember Antony saying that he thought most of the migrants were just that, economic migrants not genuine refugees? Well my ideas and the proposals by the economist and what Canada is doing are designed to sift out the genuine refugees from the economic migrants. Therefore if they were implemented and worked then you would indeed end up with less as you could enforce harder border controls and reject anyone who wasn't a genuine refugee / worthy asylum seeker.

 

Do nothing and you will just end up with a mish mash of more of the same. More people dying, more people arriving and tramping about Europe. Read the Canadian policy and how its working for them. Europe could do the same if it can stem the flow of migrants coming here themselves and its all possible but requires money, agreement and effort from all. Open doors policy doesnt work, we know that but neither does folding your arms up and hoping it will go away policy.

 

Just remember. Economic Migrants = bad. Refugees = good. We need to separate the two and deal with them accordingly.

 

[Bulletguy]

antony1969 - 2017-03-21 4:25 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2017-03-21 3:58 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-21 2:35 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2017-03-21 2:06 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-21 6:13 AM

 

No it doesn't ...

Yes it does. Don't try your usual deflection trickery when unable to give a credible answer as that game wore out ages ago.

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-20 6:07 PM

 

For every body on the beach of a washed up migrant I could probably show you twenty Christians burnt to death or stoned to death ...

I asked you yesterday to address this but you failed to come up with 50,000 Christians and just more of your usual hyperbole.

 

Give me the amount of legit refugees out of the 2500 Ive asked for with the proof and then we can work on the correct amount I have to find can't we ... No trickery or failing to address the question from me but I would like to work on facts .... Yes FACTS , look it up its in the dictionary

I asked you at 7pm last night.......but all you could do was your usual trickery of responding with a question instead of answering the question i asked you, so yes....plenty of the usual Antony deflection and trickery.

 

I'm all for seeing you back up this completely unfounded claim of "twenty Christians to every migrant" as a fact.

 

You won't because you can't.

 

I'll take it you can't tell me how many are legit ... Could be 2500 ... More likely to be nearer 250 or 25 ... Oh dear.

That figure was from just one media source over a year old. It will be much higher now and sources such as UNHCR are there for anyone to read.....including you.

 

Now....... back to you claim of "twenty Christians to every dead migrant" .........i'm still waiting for you to show this is a fact rather than more Antony hyperbole. You could of course simply put the matter to bed by admitting you can't provide any facts to back that up because it's more silly stuff 'n nonsense you make up as you go along.

 

You are so full of hot air and bullsh*t i'd be amazed if your feet ever see the ground.

[antony1969]

Bulletguy - 2017-03-21 6:53 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-21 4:25 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2017-03-21 3:58 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-21 2:35 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2017-03-21 2:06 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-21 6:13 AM

 

No it doesn't ...

Yes it does. Don't try your usual deflection trickery when unable to give a credible answer as that game wore out ages ago.

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-20 6:07 PM

 

For every body on the beach of a washed up migrant I could probably show you twenty Christians burnt to death or stoned to death ...

I asked you yesterday to address this but you failed to come up with 50,000 Christians and just more of your usual hyperbole.

 

Give me the amount of legit refugees out of the 2500 Ive asked for with the proof and then we can work on the correct amount I have to find can't we ... No trickery or failing to address the question from me but I would like to work on facts .... Yes FACTS , look it up its in the dictionary

I asked you at 7pm last night.......but all you could do was your usual trickery of responding with a question instead of answering the question i asked you, so yes....plenty of the usual Antony deflection and trickery.

 

I'm all for seeing you back up this completely unfounded claim of "twenty Christians to every migrant" as a fact.

 

You won't because you can't.

 

I'll take it you can't tell me how many are legit ... Could be 2500 ... More likely to be nearer 250 or 25 ... Oh dear.

That figure was from just one media source over a year old. It will be much higher now and sources such as UNHCR are there for anyone to read.....including you.

 

Now....... back to you claim of "twenty Christians to every dead migrant" .........i'm still waiting for you to show this is a fact rather than more Antony hyperbole. You could of course simply put the matter to bed by admitting you can't provide any facts to back that up because it's more silly stuff 'n nonsense you make up as you go along.

 

You are so full of hot air and bullsh*t i'd be amazed if your feet ever see the ground.

 

An intelligent bloke like yourself wouldn't respond to someone who made up "silly stuff and nonsense" never mind been full a sh$t too and well you know it ... All i'm asking for is the correct amount of legit refugees out of the 2500 ... I'm not asking for the legit amount out of your original 25000 amount you quoted , I have knocked the figure down considerably for you ... Please before everyone tops themselves waiting just supply the figure for me to work on ... Your good friend Antony x

[RogerC]

Barry....I think this topic has just about worn itself out.  Basically that article link you posted hits the nail on the head......quote:

"The situation today is a mess. Refugees? have been free to sail across the Mediterranean, register and make for whichever country seems most welcoming. Many economic migrants with no claim to asylum have found a place in the queue by lying about where they came from. This free-for-all must be replaced by a system in which asylum applicants are screened when they first reach Europe’s borders—or better still, before they cross the Mediterranean. Those who are ineligible for asylum should be sent back without delay; those likely to qualify should be sent on to countries willing to accept them."

Sent back?......most certainly but to where?  Without identity papers etc the authorities have extreme difficulty, often an impossibility in determining who is eligible and who is not. That is one of the main reasons why the centres here in the UK are having such difficulty inn deporting those who are deemed ineligible.

Second point....send them.....SEND THEM?  Sorry but that is something I see the 'caring sharing' brigade up in arms over.  Who decides who goes where?  What if the refugees themselves refuse to go?  It is a non starter.  

Lastly ...It is interesting to see you are selective in your concern!!  There are people in need and peril living in some most unpleasant countries....Sudan, Congo, Sub Saharan countries to name a few where there are those who are also in peril and in need of assistance but Syria is in the press so the chattering classes are up in arms over them.

So looking at those 'less developed' regions where great numbers of people are illiterate and completely uneducated in the most basic of 'niceties' ....who have never seen the sea, or a boat, or a plane but are fleeing for either either economic reasons because they have heard about the land of plenty or persecution or violence...(Chad/Mali etc) what does society do with them?  

So yes the situation is a mess, the EU has no cohesive policy....but then what's new there.....and I see no realistic proposition on the table that will provide the necessary framework or indeed intervention to stem the tide of humanity on the move.

It would be interesting to know if those making the biggest noise about assistance or lack of it....opening the borders, fly them off to other countries etc etc....all the laudable but full of holes ideas about helping.... have ever been to any of these poorer/unstable countries and seen for themselves the level of humanity that lives there?  The slums of Nairobi?  The camps on the Kenyan/Sudan border?  It is an extremely complex issue and one can not say one knows how or what can/should be done to solve it.

Having seen aid agencies at work I can honestly say the only really efficient and effective one is Medicins Sans Frontieres.  The rest of them are to busy playing politics and the UN is so disorganised it couldn't come close to doing anything remotely effective......and I've seen a fair number of UN missions where individuals try their best but the upper tiers of management screw everything up......Sarajevo, Congo, Rwanda to name a few seen up close and personal.

So yes it is a mess....of potentially global proportions but as to the solution I have no idea.  Similarly I suspect that there are those in positions of power and influence who are similarly stymied.  Looking at Syria the problem is exacerbated, as always, by the discord between Russia and the West.  Russia says it is bombing towns and cities where there are 'rebel enclaves'. The West is a little more 'targeted' in it's attacks and press releases....it is targeting ISIS or whatever they are called.  Russia openly supports Assad who has used chemical weapons on his own people!!.....so with situations such as that going on what hope is there that something as relatively 'minor' as a few hundred thousand displaced people will be resolved??

 

 

PS....the last comment 'minor' is intended as an expression of disgust that the powerful and influential clearly see it as such......and nothing is or will be done.  It is sickening but as to the answer?  No idea.

All I would say is from Ethiopia through Chad, Congo, Rwanda, Afghanistan, Gulf War 1, Iraq, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh...and others I like to forget I have seen first hand the 'source' of the problem but have no idea of a solution.  Been there , seen it, got the T shirt...but don't wear it.

[Bulletguy]

antony1969 - 2017-03-21 7:36 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2017-03-21 6:53 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-21 4:25 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2017-03-21 3:58 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-21 2:35 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2017-03-21 2:06 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-21 6:13 AM

 

No it doesn't ...

Yes it does. Don't try your usual deflection trickery when unable to give a credible answer as that game wore out ages ago.

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-20 6:07 PM

 

For every body on the beach of a washed up migrant I could probably show you twenty Christians burnt to death or stoned to death ...

I asked you yesterday to address this but you failed to come up with 50,000 Christians and just more of your usual hyperbole.

 

Give me the amount of legit refugees out of the 2500 Ive asked for with the proof and then we can work on the correct amount I have to find can't we ... No trickery or failing to address the question from me but I would like to work on facts .... Yes FACTS , look it up its in the dictionary

I asked you at 7pm last night.......but all you could do was your usual trickery of responding with a question instead of answering the question i asked you, so yes....plenty of the usual Antony deflection and trickery.

 

I'm all for seeing you back up this completely unfounded claim of "twenty Christians to every migrant" as a fact.

 

You won't because you can't.

 

I'll take it you can't tell me how many are legit ... Could be 2500 ... More likely to be nearer 250 or 25 ... Oh dear.

That figure was from just one media source over a year old. It will be much higher now and sources such as UNHCR are there for anyone to read.....including you.

 

Now....... back to you claim of "twenty Christians to every dead migrant" .........i'm still waiting for you to show this is a fact rather than more Antony hyperbole. You could of course simply put the matter to bed by admitting you can't provide any facts to back that up because it's more silly stuff 'n nonsense you make up as you go along.

 

You are so full of hot air and bullsh*t i'd be amazed if your feet ever see the ground.

 

An intelligent bloke like yourself wouldn't respond to someone who made up "silly stuff and nonsense" never mind been full a sh$t too and well you know it ... All i'm asking for is the correct amount of legit refugees out of the 2500 ... I'm not asking for the legit amount out of your original 25000 amount you quoted , I have knocked the figure down considerably for you ... Please before everyone tops themselves waiting just supply the figure for me to work on ... Your good friend Antony x

So by desperately trying to save face you still continue answering a question with a question because you cannot back up your claim.

 

Nothing new there then. *-)

 

I gave you my reply to your silly question long after i'd asked you to back up your claim. That you are completely incapable of showing any facts to back that up tells everyone, not just me, that you're full of the usual guff.

[antony1969]

Bulletguy - 2017-03-21 8:16 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-21 7:36 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2017-03-21 6:53 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-21 4:25 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2017-03-21 3:58 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-21 2:35 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2017-03-21 2:06 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-21 6:13 AM

 

No it doesn't ...

Yes it does. Don't try your usual deflection trickery when unable to give a credible answer as that game wore out ages ago.

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-20 6:07 PM

 

For every body on the beach of a washed up migrant I could probably show you twenty Christians burnt to death or stoned to death ...

I asked you yesterday to address this but you failed to come up with 50,000 Christians and just more of your usual hyperbole.

 

Give me the amount of legit refugees out of the 2500 Ive asked for with the proof and then we can work on the correct amount I have to find can't we ... No trickery or failing to address the question from me but I would like to work on facts .... Yes FACTS , look it up its in the dictionary

I asked you at 7pm last night.......but all you could do was your usual trickery of responding with a question instead of answering the question i asked you, so yes....plenty of the usual Antony deflection and trickery.

 

I'm all for seeing you back up this completely unfounded claim of "twenty Christians to every migrant" as a fact.

 

You won't because you can't.

 

I'll take it you can't tell me how many are legit ... Could be 2500 ... More likely to be nearer 250 or 25 ... Oh dear.

That figure was from just one media source over a year old. It will be much higher now and sources such as UNHCR are there for anyone to read.....including you.

 

Now....... back to you claim of "twenty Christians to every dead migrant" .........i'm still waiting for you to show this is a fact rather than more Antony hyperbole. You could of course simply put the matter to bed by admitting you can't provide any facts to back that up because it's more silly stuff 'n nonsense you make up as you go along.

 

You are so full of hot air and bullsh*t i'd be amazed if your feet ever see the ground.

 

An intelligent bloke like yourself wouldn't respond to someone who made up "silly stuff and nonsense" never mind been full a sh$t too and well you know it ... All i'm asking for is the correct amount of legit refugees out of the 2500 ... I'm not asking for the legit amount out of your original 25000 amount you quoted , I have knocked the figure down considerably for you ... Please before everyone tops themselves waiting just supply the figure for me to work on ... Your good friend Antony x

So by desperately trying to save face you still continue answering a question with a question because you cannot back up your claim.

 

Nothing new there then. *-)

 

I gave you my reply to your silly question long after i'd asked you to back up your claim. That you are completely incapable of showing any facts to back that up tells everyone, not just me, that you're full of the usual guff.

 

Not since the withdrawal from Vietnam by the Yanks has a defeat been so public and humiliating ... Shame on you Bullet

[Bulletguy]

antony1969 - 2017-03-21 8:30 PM

 

Not since the withdrawal from Vietnam by the Yanks has a defeat been so public and humiliating ... Shame on you Bullet

You're making a complete ass of yourself now Antony though thats not difficult for you.

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-20 6:07 PM

... For every body on the beach of a washed up migrant I could probably show you twenty Christians burnt to death or stoned to death ... Every picture tells a story I suppose

 

Come on big mouth.........either post up the facts to back the above up or retract it.

[antony1969]

Bulletguy - 2017-03-21 8:55 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-21 8:30 PM

 

Not since the withdrawal from Vietnam by the Yanks has a defeat been so public and humiliating ... Shame on you Bullet

You're making a complete ass of yourself now Antony though thats not difficult for you.

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-20 6:07 PM

... For every body on the beach of a washed up migrant I could probably show you twenty Christians burnt to death or stoned to death ... Every picture tells a story I suppose

 

Come on big mouth.........either post up the facts to back the above up or retract it.

 

Goodness Bullet please your behaviour towards me is bordering on obsession ... Once again for maybe the 4th or 5th time forward the amount of legit refugees out of the 2500 and then I can answer ... It's not difficult ... If you want to save face then PM and you have my word I won't share your shame with the rest of our friends ... Living in hope , your friend Antony

[Bulletguy]

antony1969 - 2017-03-21 9:11 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2017-03-21 8:55 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-21 8:30 PM

 

Not since the withdrawal from Vietnam by the Yanks has a defeat been so public and humiliating ... Shame on you Bullet

You're making a complete ass of yourself now Antony though thats not difficult for you.

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-20 6:07 PM

... For every body on the beach of a washed up migrant I could probably show you twenty Christians burnt to death or stoned to death ... Every picture tells a story I suppose

 

Come on big mouth.........either post up the facts to back the above up or retract it.

 

Goodness Bullet please your behaviour towards me is bordering on obsession ... Once again for maybe the 4th or 5th time forward the amount of legit refugees out of the 2500 and then I can answer ... It's not difficult ... If you want to save face then PM and you have my word I won't share your shame with the rest of our friends ... Living in hope , your friend Antony.

Listen up. That's been replied to bearing in mind you posed that question way after i'd asked you a question WHICH YOU HAVE PERSISTENTLY REFUSED TO REPLY TO other than with a question.

 

Try being a man...just for a few minutes, and post up facts to back up your claim or retract.

 

If you can't reply with a sensible logical ANSWER (not a question) then don't bother.

[Barryd999]

RogerC - 2017-03-21 7:48 PMBarry....I think this topic has just about worn itself out.  Basically that article link you posted hits the nail on the head......quote:

"The situation today is a mess. Refugees? have been free to sail across the Mediterranean, register and make for whichever country seems most welcoming. Many economic migrants with no claim to asylum have found a place in the queue by lying about where they came from. This free-for-all must be replaced by a system in which asylum applicants are screened when they first reach Europe’s borders—or better still, before they cross the Mediterranean. Those who are ineligible for asylum should be sent back without delay; those likely to qualify should be sent on to countries willing to accept them."

Sent back?......most certainly but to where?  Without identity papers etc the authorities have extreme difficulty, often an impossibility in determining who is eligible and who is not. That is one of the main reasons why the centres here in the UK are having such difficulty inn deporting those who are deemed ineligible.

Second point....send them.....SEND THEM?  Sorry but that is something I see the 'caring sharing' brigade up in arms over.  Who decides who goes where?  What if the refugees themselves refuse to go?  It is a non starter.  

Lastly ...It is interesting to see you are selective in your concern!!  There are people in need and peril living in some most unpleasant countries....Sudan, Congo, Sub Saharan countries to name a few where there are those who are also in peril and in need of assistance but Syria is in the press so the chattering classes are up in arms over them.

So looking at those 'less developed' regions where great numbers of people are illiterate and completely uneducated in the most basic of 'niceties' ....who have never seen the sea, or a boat, or a plane but are fleeing for either either economic reasons because they have heard about the land of plenty or persecution or violence...(Chad/Mali etc) what does society do with them?  

So yes the situation is a mess, the EU has no cohesive policy....but then what's new there.....and I see no realistic proposition on the table that will provide the necessary framework or indeed intervention to stem the tide of humanity on the move.

It would be interesting to know if those making the biggest noise about assistance or lack of it....opening the borders, fly them off to other countries etc etc....all the laudable but full of holes ideas about helping.... have ever been to any of these poorer/unstable countries and seen for themselves the level of humanity that lives there?  The slums of Nairobi?  The camps on the Kenyan/Sudan border?  It is an extremely complex issue and one can not say one knows how or what can/should be done to solve it.

Having seen aid agencies at work I can honestly say the only really efficient and effective one is Medicins Sans Frontieres.  The rest of them are to busy playing politics and the UN is so disorganised it couldn't come close to doing anything remotely effective......and I've seen a fair number of UN missions where individuals try their best but the upper tiers of management screw everything up......Sarajevo, Congo, Rwanda to name a few seen up close and personal.

So yes it is a mess....of potentially global proportions but as to the solution I have no idea.  Similarly I suspect that there are those in positions of power and influence who are similarly stymied.  Looking at Syria the problem is exacerbated, as always, by the discord between Russia and the West.  Russia says it is bombing towns and cities where there are 'rebel enclaves'. The West is a little more 'targeted' in it's attacks and press releases....it is targeting ISIS or whatever they are called.  Russia openly supports Assad who has used chemical weapons on his own people!!.....so with situations such as that going on what hope is there that something as relatively 'minor' as a few hundred thousand displaced people will be resolved??

 

 

PS....the last comment 'minor' is intended as an expression of disgust that the powerful and influential clearly see it as such......and nothing is or will be done.  It is sickening but as to the answer?  No idea.

All I would say is from Ethiopia through Chad, Congo, Rwanda, Afghanistan, Gulf War 1, Iraq, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh...and others I like to forget I have seen first hand the 'source' of the problem but have no idea of a solution.  Been there , seen it, got the T shirt...but don't wear it.

Thanks Roger for that thoughtful and interesting response. I will reply in more depth tomorrow when I have digested it further. (Im a bit preoccupied tonight) You clearly have seen a bit of the world and experienced these places and I respect that. Please understand that I do not wish to single out Syria or just a handful of places that need assistance. I am fully aware that there are many countries that require similar help and who's citizens require refugee status but for the simplicity of the debate I refer to the main recognisable areas that appear to be where the main influx of refugees hail from that are coming to Europe.There is no easy answer but doing nothing is also also not an answer. Its a global problem, its a small world now and we all need to do the right thing and help where we can.

[Violet1956]

As there has been some discussion about the proportion of asylum seekers that are genuine I thought some government stats on the outcome of claims in the UK might present some idea.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/immigration-statistics-april-to-june-2015/asylum

 

Veronica

[Bulletguy]

Violet1956 - 2017-03-21 10:34 PM

 

As there has been some discussion about the proportion of asylum seekers that are genuine I thought some government stats on the outcome of claims in the UK might present some idea.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/immigration-statistics-april-to-june-2015/asylum

 

Veronica

 

The percentages of applications refused being considerably higher than those accepted and the number of asylum applications down from 85,000 in 2002 to 25,000 in 2014. Good solid fact info there Veronica from a reliable and trusted source, the Home Office. Can't get better than that.

[antony1969]

Bulletguy - 2017-03-21 11:47 PM

 

Violet1956 - 2017-03-21 10:34 PM

 

As there has been some discussion about the proportion of asylum seekers that are genuine I thought some government stats on the outcome of claims in the UK might present some idea.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/immigration-statistics-april-to-june-2015/asylum

 

Veronica

 

The percentages of applications refused being considerably higher than those accepted and the number of asylum applications down from 85,000 in 2002 to 25,000 in 2014. Good solid fact info there Veronica from a reliable and trusted source, the Home Office. Can't get better than that.

 

But the last year 2015 the granted rate was higher than the previous 5 years ... Not good

[antony1969]

Bulletguy - 2017-03-21 9:21 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-21 9:11 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2017-03-21 8:55 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-21 8:30 PM

 

Not since the withdrawal from Vietnam by the Yanks has a defeat been so public and humiliating ... Shame on you Bullet

You're making a complete ass of yourself now Antony though thats not difficult for you.

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-20 6:07 PM

... For every body on the beach of a washed up migrant I could probably show you twenty Christians burnt to death or stoned to death ... Every picture tells a story I suppose

 

Come on big mouth.........either post up the facts to back the above up or retract it.

 

Goodness Bullet please your behaviour towards me is bordering on obsession ... Once again for maybe the 4th or 5th time forward the amount of legit refugees out of the 2500 and then I can answer ... It's not difficult ... If you want to save face then PM and you have my word I won't share your shame with the rest of our friends ... Living in hope , your friend Antony.

Listen up. That's been replied to bearing in mind you posed that question way after i'd asked you a question WHICH YOU HAVE PERSISTENTLY REFUSED TO REPLY TO other than with a question.

 

Try being a man...just for a few minutes, and post up facts to back up your claim or retract.

 

If you can't reply with a sensible logical ANSWER (not a question) then don't bother.

 

My previous post applies again and will do until you can provide the figure ... Thankyou

[Violet1956]

antony1969 - 2017-03-22 6:22 AM

 

Bulletguy - 2017-03-21 11:47 PM

 

Violet1956 - 2017-03-21 10:34 PM

 

As there has been some discussion about the proportion of asylum seekers that are genuine I thought some government stats on the outcome of claims in the UK might present some idea.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/immigration-statistics-april-to-june-2015/asylum

 

Veronica

 

The percentages of applications refused being considerably higher than those accepted and the number of asylum applications down from 85,000 in 2002 to 25,000 in 2014. Good solid fact info there Veronica from a reliable and trusted source, the Home Office. Can't get better than that.

 

But the last year 2015 the granted rate was higher than the previous 5 years ... Not good

 

Or it may mean that there were more genuine cases than fake in 2015 Antony.

 

I know one particular bugbear for many was that which arose due to the adult appearance of the recently arrived asylum seeking "children". It is noted in the Home Office stats that "those who completed age assessments in the year ending June 2015, 58% had a date of birth showing that they were over 18 despite claiming to be a child when the age dispute was raised". I think the figures might reasonably be interpreted as showing that we are not the mugs the popular press would have us believe when it comes to people claiming to be children who are not, nor are we being "swamped" with asylum claimants when compared with Germany, Hungary, Sweden, Austria France and Italy. There were 755,000 asylum claimants in Europe as at the year ending June 2015 of which we had 33,000. As the report mentions "when the relative size of resident populations of the EU countries is taken into account, the UK ranked 16th in terms of asylum applicants per head of resident population in the year ending June 2015".

 

You will also note the ratio of those claims that are accepted as genuine vary, unsurprisingly, according to a claimant's country of origin. For example of those from Pakistan, the second highest country in terms of the origin of claimants in the UK only 22% succeeded in obtaining a grant of refugee status from the Home Office in the year ending June 2015. We know that in Pakistan there are a number of groups that sometimes face persecution as you have mentioned them, e.g. Christians, some women, Ahmadi Muslims. Seems to me those young men coming from Pakistan claiming asylum don't have much luck unless they fall into such categories.

 

 

So in response to your comment "not good" I would say not as bad as people in the UK are inclined to believe.

 

Veronica

[Guest pelmetman]

Violet1956 - 2017-03-22 8:09 AM

 

So in response to your comment "not good" I would say not as bad as people in the UK are inclined to believe.

 

Veronica

 

.......and how many of those failed asylum seekers have been deported? *-) .........

 

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/108

 

http://news.sky.com/story/thousands-of-failed-asylum-seekers-still-in-uk-10178728

 

 

 

 

[antony1969]

pelmetman - 2017-03-22 8:13 AM

 

Violet1956 - 2017-03-22 8:09 AM

 

So in response to your comment "not good" I would say not as bad as people in the UK are inclined to believe.

 

Veronica

 

.......and how many of those failed asylum seekers have been deported? *-) .........

 

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/108

 

http://news.sky.com/story/thousands-of-failed-asylum-seekers-still-in-uk-10178728

 

 

 

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/617623/UK-immigration-half-a-million-failed-asylum-seekers-Britain-court-Theresa-May-farce ... Kind of bashes the argument Dave dont ya think ;-) ... Any room at Barry's ?

[Guest pelmetman]

antony1969 - 2017-03-22 8:26 AM

 

pelmetman - 2017-03-22 8:13 AM

 

Violet1956 - 2017-03-22 8:09 AM

 

So in response to your comment "not good" I would say not as bad as people in the UK are inclined to believe.

 

Veronica

 

.......and how many of those failed asylum seekers have been deported? *-) .........

 

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/108

 

http://news.sky.com/story/thousands-of-failed-asylum-seekers-still-in-uk-10178728

 

 

 

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/617623/UK-immigration-half-a-million-failed-asylum-seekers-Britain-court-Theresa-May-farce ... Kind of bashes the argument Dave dont ya think ;-) ... Any room at Barry's ?

 

But Barry reckons we can have a system where they sort the illegals from the refugees........he's prolly right we could ;-) ........

 

Not that it'll make a blind bit of difference though because they'll both get to stay anyway *-) ......

 

Talk about cloud cuckoo land Veronica even says its not that bad (lol) (lol) (lol) .......

 

 

[antony1969]

pelmetman - 2017-03-22 8:36 AM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-22 8:26 AM

 

pelmetman - 2017-03-22 8:13 AM

 

Violet1956 - 2017-03-22 8:09 AM

 

So in response to your comment "not good" I would say not as bad as people in the UK are inclined to believe.

 

Veronica

 

.......and how many of those failed asylum seekers have been deported? *-) .........

 

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/108

 

http://news.sky.com/story/thousands-of-failed-asylum-seekers-still-in-uk-10178728

 

 

 

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/617623/UK-immigration-half-a-million-failed-asylum-seekers-Britain-court-Theresa-May-farce ... Kind of bashes the argument Dave dont ya think ;-) ... Any room at Barry's ?

 

But Barry reckons we can have a system where they sort the illegals from the refugees........he's prolly right we could ;-) ........

 

Not that it'll make a blind bit of difference though because they'll both get to stay anyway *-) ......

 

Talk about cloud cuckoo land Veronica even says its not that bad (lol) (lol) (lol) .......

 

 

If that 500.000 figure is correct its more than 3 times the amount of folk that live in my home "city" of Huddersfield just in FAILED asylum seekers ... Barry has said he'll welcome migrants to his village and into his home ... Thats a lot of toilet rolls needed ... Mind a lot of em dont use it do they http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3247526/Kebab-shop-owners-infected-150-customers-rare-form-food-poisoning-meals-contaminated-human-faeces.html ... Hope thats not Barrys favourite kebab shop ... Yummy

[Violet1956]

I have to acknowledge that the stats on removal are dismal. I was seeking only to show how many claims were successful or unsuccessful and the comparative burden of dealing with claims across Europe. The government is rightly being held to account for the actions in not removing failed claimants.

 

I'm also not suggesting that there is no problem as regards the proportion of valid claims to invalid ones but the problem is far greater in other European countries. The stats suggest that there is a high proportion of invalid ones in the UK especially from people from certain countries so I would guess that this is the same in the other EU countries. I wonder how successful they are at removing people whose claims have been rejected?

 

Whether the current procedures based on the Refugee Convention we signed in 1951 which was intended to assist genuine claimants are relevant in today's world remains questionable. The abuse of the current procedures puts at risk their ability to get the protection they need. A climate of cynicism has been allowed to develop due to a year on year failure to remove failed asylum seekers which is not good at all.

 

Veronica

[Barryd999]

antony1969 - 2017-03-22 6:22 AM

 

Bulletguy - 2017-03-21 11:47 PM

 

Violet1956 - 2017-03-21 10:34 PM

 

As there has been some discussion about the proportion of asylum seekers that are genuine I thought some government stats on the outcome of claims in the UK might present some idea.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/immigration-statistics-april-to-june-2015/asylum

 

Veronica

 

The percentages of applications refused being considerably higher than those accepted and the number of asylum applications down from 85,000 in 2002 to 25,000 in 2014. Good solid fact info there Veronica from a reliable and trusted source, the Home Office. Can't get better than that.

 

But the last year 2015 the granted rate was higher than the previous 5 years ... Not good

 

You know why the asylum rate dropped so dramatically after 2002 dont you? Because 2003 was when Le Touquet Treaty was put in place and the UK Borders moved to France. The French have indicated that we can take them back if we leave the EU so I guess you can expect that figure to shoot back up again if we leave. Probably much higher than 2002 levels as well as there are many more migrants now.

[antony1969]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/561302/Asylum-seekers-cost-taxpayers-726k-day-immigration ... Gosh thats a lot of money and it doesn't take into account legal costs , health care and school fees for all those little kids ... Shocking waste of money I'd rather the NHS and Police were able to use it ... Ah well

[Guest pelmetman]

Barryd999 - 2017-03-22 10:25 AM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-22 6:22 AM

 

Bulletguy - 2017-03-21 11:47 PM

 

Violet1956 - 2017-03-21 10:34 PM

 

As there has been some discussion about the proportion of asylum seekers that are genuine I thought some government stats on the outcome of claims in the UK might present some idea.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/immigration-statistics-april-to-june-2015/asylum

 

Veronica

 

The percentages of applications refused being considerably higher than those accepted and the number of asylum applications down from 85,000 in 2002 to 25,000 in 2014. Good solid fact info there Veronica from a reliable and trusted source, the Home Office. Can't get better than that.

 

But the last year 2015 the granted rate was higher than the previous 5 years ... Not good

 

You know why the asylum rate dropped so dramatically after 2002 dont you? Because 2003 was when Le Touquet Treaty was put in place and the UK Borders moved to France. The French have indicated that we can take them back if we leave the EU so I guess you can expect that figure to shoot back up again if we leave. Probably much higher than 2002 levels as well as there are many more migrants now.

 

Not if they start fining the carriers the same as the lorry drivers ;-) ........

 

 

[Guest pelmetman]

antony1969 - 2017-03-22 10:36 AM

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/561302/Asylum-seekers-cost-taxpayers-726k-day-immigration ... Gosh thats a lot of money and it doesn't take into account legal costs , health care and school fees for all those little kids ... Shocking waste of money I'd rather the NHS and Police were able to use it ... Ah well

 

Don't forget those that fail are not allowed to work or claim benefits so resort to thieving to get by *-) .......

 

Dontcha just love the world our Loony Lefties have created?.......and they wonder why folk are voting for right wing parties (lol) (lol) (lol) .......

 

 

[Barryd999]

pelmetman - 2017-03-22 8:36 AM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-22 8:26 AM

 

pelmetman - 2017-03-22 8:13 AM

 

Violet1956 - 2017-03-22 8:09 AM

 

So in response to your comment "not good" I would say not as bad as people in the UK are inclined to believe.

 

Veronica

 

.......and how many of those failed asylum seekers have been deported? *-) .........

 

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/108

 

http://news.sky.com/story/thousands-of-failed-asylum-seekers-still-in-uk-10178728

 

 

 

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/617623/UK-immigration-half-a-million-failed-asylum-seekers-Britain-court-Theresa-May-farce ... Kind of bashes the argument Dave dont ya think ;-) ... Any room at Barry's ?

 

But Barry reckons we can have a system where they sort the illegals from the refugees........he's prolly right we could ;-) ........

 

Not that it'll make a blind bit of difference though because they'll both get to stay anyway *-) ......

 

Talk about cloud cuckoo land Veronica even says its not that bad (lol) (lol) (lol) .......

 

 

Yes we could have such a system. What I am proposing and what the economist report suggests is by tackling the problem at source or at point of entry you will greatly reduce and control the number of Genuine refugees trying to get to Europe by whatever desperate method they choose which at the moment includes the UK. That has to be the answer. Deter the genuine refugees but look after them either nearer to their homelands or by taking in quotas by legitimate channels as is the case in places like Canada and Australia. You should be supporting this idea Dave.

 

That way you can assume those still making the journey are economic migrants and do with them as you wish. There will still be the issues and difficulties with identifying exactly where these people are from but I think it will allow Europe to take a firmer stance with migrants and its borders.

 

However that report in the Express claims that the reason there are so many here that should have been deported is because "cash-strapped immigration courts cannot afford to hear their appeal cases". Well you had better ask St Theresa what she is playing at then. Bonkers.

 

They had better put a system in and indeed throw some money at it and agree on legit quotas really as if as mentioned above if nothing is done and the French kick our borders into touch you can expect an influx anytime soon. Blimey with the NHS desperately recruiting in Muslim countries because they cant get EU workers and with no solution in sight for the migrant crisis and a potential loss of our French side borders there is going to be a lot more brown faces heading here huh?