Guest pelmetman Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Barryd999 - 2017-03-22 10:45 AM Yes we could have such a system. What I am proposing and what the economist report suggests is by tackling the problem at source or at point of entry you will greatly reduce and control the number of Genuine refugees trying to get to Europe by whatever desperate method they choose which at the moment includes the UK. That has to be the answer. Deter the genuine refugees but look after them either nearer to their homelands or by taking in quotas by legitimate channels as is the case in places like Canada and Australia. You should be supporting this idea Dave. But it wont work will it Barry ........do you honestly believe that migrants will give up if they're told they not welcome at the inn? 8-) ......... Nah all that will happen in the "real world" is they'll resort to the methods they're currently using ......... The only way to stop them is take them straight back and dump them back on the beach in Turkey or Lybia etc or give them the option of a flight home to their country of origin :-| ..... All your proposal will do is increase the numbers who will try to get to the EU *-) ..... One things for sure....the Schengen zone is living on borrowed time >:-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 RogerC - 2017-03-21 7:48 PM Snipped Sent back?......most certainly but to where? Without identity papers etc the authorities have extreme difficulty, often an impossibility in determining who is eligible and who is not. That is one of the main reasons why the centres here in the UK are having such difficulty inn deporting those who are deemed ineligible. Second point....send them.....SEND THEM? Sorry but that is something I see the 'caring sharing' brigade up in arms over. Who decides who goes where? What if the refugees themselves refuse to go? It is a non starter. Well if these systems are put in place then those attempting to make the journey say to Greece from Turkey in leaky unsafe boats can be sent straight back to the legitimate camps in Turkey or Jordan or Lebanon. It costs around €11000 for a place on a leaky boat from Turkey to Kos, the actual ferry fare is around €24. Refugees will be less likely to make that journey if they think they are going to get shipped straight back again. Plus if they think there is a chance of a legitimate route to a safe country from Turkey or one of the middle eastern countries to Europe or Canada they are much more likely to take that route and prove their eligibility. However if conditions are improved in these three countries nearer to home and refugees are allowed to work and their children educated then there is even less of an incentive for them to come here. Or another solution which could work in conjunction with that is to have proper holding and processing camps in the countries where these refugees arrive. Greece and possibly Italy. If asylum claims are processed there quickly and efficiently then you could in the case of Greece cut off the Macedonian border which currently is as the report says waving through migrants. Those arriving from Africa who do not meet the criteria will have to be sent back there also to Morocco or Algeria probably. I dont know why people cannot see that by a pan European solution and effort which requires lots of money of course this problem can be solved or at least controlled. That is what Merkal wanted but she has not had the support of the whole of Europe. I am now convinced some do not want a solution for the reasons stated earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 pelmetman - 2017-03-22 11:13 AM Barryd999 - 2017-03-22 10:45 AM Yes we could have such a system. What I am proposing and what the economist report suggests is by tackling the problem at source or at point of entry you will greatly reduce and control the number of Genuine refugees trying to get to Europe by whatever desperate method they choose which at the moment includes the UK. That has to be the answer. Deter the genuine refugees but look after them either nearer to their homelands or by taking in quotas by legitimate channels as is the case in places like Canada and Australia. You should be supporting this idea Dave. But it wont work will it Barry ........do you honestly believe that migrants will give up if they're told they not welcome at the inn? 8-) ......... Nah all that will happen in the "real world" is they'll resort to the methods they're currently using ......... The only way to stop them is take them straight back and dump them back on the beach in Turkey or Lybia etc or give them the option of a flight home to their country of origin :-| ..... All your proposal will do is increase the numbers who will try to get to the EU *-) ..... One things for sure....the Schengen zone is living on borrowed time >:-) ........ Read what I have just posted above Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Barryd999 - 2017-03-22 11:42 AM pelmetman - 2017-03-22 11:13 AM Barryd999 - 2017-03-22 10:45 AM Yes we could have such a system. What I am proposing and what the economist report suggests is by tackling the problem at source or at point of entry you will greatly reduce and control the number of Genuine refugees trying to get to Europe by whatever desperate method they choose which at the moment includes the UK. That has to be the answer. Deter the genuine refugees but look after them either nearer to their homelands or by taking in quotas by legitimate channels as is the case in places like Canada and Australia. You should be supporting this idea Dave. But it wont work will it Barry ........do you honestly believe that migrants will give up if they're told they not welcome at the inn? 8-) ......... Nah all that will happen in the "real world" is they'll resort to the methods they're currently using ......... The only way to stop them is take them straight back and dump them back on the beach in Turkey or Lybia etc or give them the option of a flight home to their country of origin :-| ..... All your proposal will do is increase the numbers who will try to get to the EU *-) ..... One things for sure....the Schengen zone is living on borrowed time >:-) ........ Read what I have just posted above Dave. ......and what do you think they'll do when they get returned to the camp? ;-) ........Do you think they'll say "Oh well never mind I better go home" (lol) ........ BTW it looks like its going to be another good year for the people smugglers 8-) .......and the far right EU parties :D ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Barryd999 - 2017-03-22 10:45 AM pelmetman - 2017-03-22 8:36 AM antony1969 - 2017-03-22 8:26 AM pelmetman - 2017-03-22 8:13 AM Violet1956 - 2017-03-22 8:09 AM So in response to your comment "not good" I would say not as bad as people in the UK are inclined to believe. Veronica .......and how many of those failed asylum seekers have been deported? *-) ......... https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/108 http://news.sky.com/story/thousands-of-failed-asylum-seekers-still-in-uk-10178728 http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/617623/UK-immigration-half-a-million-failed-asylum-seekers-Britain-court-Theresa-May-farce ... Kind of bashes the argument Dave dont ya think ;-) ... Any room at Barry's ? But Barry reckons we can have a system where they sort the illegals from the refugees........he's prolly right we could ;-) ........ Not that it'll make a blind bit of difference though because they'll both get to stay anyway *-) ...... Talk about cloud cuckoo land Veronica even says its not that bad (lol) (lol) (lol) ....... Yes we could have such a system. What I am proposing and what the economist report suggests is by tackling the problem at source or at point of entry you will greatly reduce and control the number of Genuine refugees trying to get to Europe by whatever desperate method they choose which at the moment includes the UK. That has to be the answer. Deter the genuine refugees but look after them either nearer to their homelands or by taking in quotas by legitimate channels as is the case in places like Canada and Australia. You should be supporting this idea Dave. That way you can assume those still making the journey are economic migrants and do with them as you wish. There will still be the issues and difficulties with identifying exactly where these people are from but I think it will allow Europe to take a firmer stance with migrants and its borders. However that report in the Express claims that the reason there are so many here that should have been deported is because "cash-strapped immigration courts cannot afford to hear their appeal cases". Well you had better ask St Theresa what she is playing at then. Bonkers. They had better put a system in and indeed throw some money at it and agree on legit quotas really as if as mentioned above if nothing is done and the French kick our borders into touch you can expect an influx anytime soon. Blimey with the NHS desperately recruiting in Muslim countries because they cant get EU workers and with no solution in sight for the migrant crisis and a potential loss of our French side borders there is going to be a lot more brown faces heading here huh? Not a whiff of Brexit safety fears here Barry ... More Polish doctors coming and no mention of any leaving ... http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/781366/Brexit-news-Poland-Britain-UK-NHS-recruitment-doctors ... Couple of reports on African NHS recruitment from back in the day Barry ... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3083041.stm ... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4349545.stm ... We've been doing it for years ... Dont read too much into it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 pelmetman - 2017-03-22 11:58 AM Barryd999 - 2017-03-22 11:42 AM pelmetman - 2017-03-22 11:13 AM Barryd999 - 2017-03-22 10:45 AM Yes we could have such a system. What I am proposing and what the economist report suggests is by tackling the problem at source or at point of entry you will greatly reduce and control the number of Genuine refugees trying to get to Europe by whatever desperate method they choose which at the moment includes the UK. That has to be the answer. Deter the genuine refugees but look after them either nearer to their homelands or by taking in quotas by legitimate channels as is the case in places like Canada and Australia. You should be supporting this idea Dave. But it wont work will it Barry ........do you honestly believe that migrants will give up if they're told they not welcome at the inn? 8-) ......... Nah all that will happen in the "real world" is they'll resort to the methods they're currently using ......... The only way to stop them is take them straight back and dump them back on the beach in Turkey or Lybia etc or give them the option of a flight home to their country of origin :-| ..... All your proposal will do is increase the numbers who will try to get to the EU *-) ..... One things for sure....the Schengen zone is living on borrowed time >:-) ........ Read what I have just posted above Dave. ......and what do you think they'll do when they get returned to the camp? ;-) ........Do you think they'll say "Oh well never mind I better go home" (lol) ........ BTW it looks like its going to be another good year for the people smugglers 8-) .......and the far right EU parties :D ........ The point is if they know its a pointless journey they will be deterred from making it but if conditions are improved in neighbouring countries or there is a legitimate route to the west then why jump in a leaky boat in the first place? Legitimate refugees will cease to do that if the measures suggested are made. Economic Migrants may still try but you can then turn them around or deport them. Why would anyone not support that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 antony1969 - 2017-03-22 12:09 PM Barryd999 - 2017-03-22 10:45 AM pelmetman - 2017-03-22 8:36 AM antony1969 - 2017-03-22 8:26 AM pelmetman - 2017-03-22 8:13 AM Violet1956 - 2017-03-22 8:09 AM So in response to your comment "not good" I would say not as bad as people in the UK are inclined to believe. Veronica .......and how many of those failed asylum seekers have been deported? *-) ......... https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/108 http://news.sky.com/story/thousands-of-failed-asylum-seekers-still-in-uk-10178728 http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/617623/UK-immigration-half-a-million-failed-asylum-seekers-Britain-court-Theresa-May-farce ... Kind of bashes the argument Dave dont ya think ;-) ... Any room at Barry's ? But Barry reckons we can have a system where they sort the illegals from the refugees........he's prolly right we could ;-) ........ Not that it'll make a blind bit of difference though because they'll both get to stay anyway *-) ...... Talk about cloud cuckoo land Veronica even says its not that bad (lol) (lol) (lol) ....... Yes we could have such a system. What I am proposing and what the economist report suggests is by tackling the problem at source or at point of entry you will greatly reduce and control the number of Genuine refugees trying to get to Europe by whatever desperate method they choose which at the moment includes the UK. That has to be the answer. Deter the genuine refugees but look after them either nearer to their homelands or by taking in quotas by legitimate channels as is the case in places like Canada and Australia. You should be supporting this idea Dave. That way you can assume those still making the journey are economic migrants and do with them as you wish. There will still be the issues and difficulties with identifying exactly where these people are from but I think it will allow Europe to take a firmer stance with migrants and its borders. However that report in the Express claims that the reason there are so many here that should have been deported is because "cash-strapped immigration courts cannot afford to hear their appeal cases". Well you had better ask St Theresa what she is playing at then. Bonkers. They had better put a system in and indeed throw some money at it and agree on legit quotas really as if as mentioned above if nothing is done and the French kick our borders into touch you can expect an influx anytime soon. Blimey with the NHS desperately recruiting in Muslim countries because they cant get EU workers and with no solution in sight for the migrant crisis and a potential loss of our French side borders there is going to be a lot more brown faces heading here huh? Not a whiff of Brexit safety fears here Barry ... More Polish doctors coming and no mention of any leaving ... http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/781366/Brexit-news-Poland-Britain-UK-NHS-recruitment-doctors ... Couple of reports on African NHS recruitment from back in the day Barry ... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3083041.stm ... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4349545.stm ... We've been doing it for years ... Dont read too much into it Not sure what that has to do with the post you quoted Antony but your report shows that there will be attempts by a desperate NHS to recruit from the likes of Poland and Greece but at the moment since Brexit recruitment from EU countries has flat lined (sorry for the pun) which is why they are having to recruit from Asia and Africa which as you say is nothing new but thanks to Free Movement and our EU membership we have been able to recruit our nearest neighbours. They are not keen to either stay or come now though and who would blame them? Perhaps a last ditch attempt by the NHS before Brexit may yield some results but from what I gather that guy in the video should stop worrying, they wont come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Barryd999 - 2017-03-22 12:48 PM antony1969 - 2017-03-22 12:09 PM Barryd999 - 2017-03-22 10:45 AM pelmetman - 2017-03-22 8:36 AM antony1969 - 2017-03-22 8:26 AM pelmetman - 2017-03-22 8:13 AM Violet1956 - 2017-03-22 8:09 AM So in response to your comment "not good" I would say not as bad as people in the UK are inclined to believe. Veronica .......and how many of those failed asylum seekers have been deported? *-) ......... https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/108 http://news.sky.com/story/thousands-of-failed-asylum-seekers-still-in-uk-10178728 http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/617623/UK-immigration-half-a-million-failed-asylum-seekers-Britain-court-Theresa-May-farce ... Kind of bashes the argument Dave dont ya think ;-) ... Any room at Barry's ? But Barry reckons we can have a system where they sort the illegals from the refugees........he's prolly right we could ;-) ........ Not that it'll make a blind bit of difference though because they'll both get to stay anyway *-) ...... Talk about cloud cuckoo land Veronica even says its not that bad (lol) (lol) (lol) ....... Yes we could have such a system. What I am proposing and what the economist report suggests is by tackling the problem at source or at point of entry you will greatly reduce and control the number of Genuine refugees trying to get to Europe by whatever desperate method they choose which at the moment includes the UK. That has to be the answer. Deter the genuine refugees but look after them either nearer to their homelands or by taking in quotas by legitimate channels as is the case in places like Canada and Australia. You should be supporting this idea Dave. That way you can assume those still making the journey are economic migrants and do with them as you wish. There will still be the issues and difficulties with identifying exactly where these people are from but I think it will allow Europe to take a firmer stance with migrants and its borders. However that report in the Express claims that the reason there are so many here that should have been deported is because "cash-strapped immigration courts cannot afford to hear their appeal cases". Well you had better ask St Theresa what she is playing at then. Bonkers. They had better put a system in and indeed throw some money at it and agree on legit quotas really as if as mentioned above if nothing is done and the French kick our borders into touch you can expect an influx anytime soon. Blimey with the NHS desperately recruiting in Muslim countries because they cant get EU workers and with no solution in sight for the migrant crisis and a potential loss of our French side borders there is going to be a lot more brown faces heading here huh? Not a whiff of Brexit safety fears here Barry ... More Polish doctors coming and no mention of any leaving ... http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/781366/Brexit-news-Poland-Britain-UK-NHS-recruitment-doctors ... Couple of reports on African NHS recruitment from back in the day Barry ... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3083041.stm ... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4349545.stm ... We've been doing it for years ... Dont read too much into it Not sure what that has to do with the post you quoted Antony but your report shows that there will be attempts by a desperate NHS to recruit from the likes of Poland and Greece but at the moment since Brexit recruitment from EU countries has flat lined (sorry for the pun) which is why they are having to recruit from Asia and Africa which as you say is nothing new but thanks to Free Movement and our EU membership we have been able to recruit our nearest neighbours. They are not keen to either stay or come now though and who would blame them? Perhaps a last ditch attempt by the NHS before Brexit may yield some results but from what I gather that guy in the video should stop worrying, they wont come. "the NHS desperately recruiting in Muslim countries because they can't get EU workers" ... Barry Dobson 22nd March 2017 ... 12.48PM ... Somewhere in Lalaland ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Barryd999 - 2017-03-22 12:43 PM The point is if they know its a pointless journey they will be deterred from making it but if conditions are improved in neighbouring countries or there is a legitimate route to the west then why jump in a leaky boat in the first place? Legitimate refugees will cease to do that if the measures suggested are made. Economic Migrants may still try but you can then turn them around or deport them. Why would anyone not support that? In theory its a pointless journey now? *-) ......... Have to say your faith in the international community getting its act together is quite touching though Barry ;-) ........Naive .....but touching :D ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 I hope it isn't for the victims sake but it does sound like we've just had ANOTHER attack in London Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 antony1969 - 2017-03-22 3:13 PM I hope it isn't for the victims sake but it does sound like we've just had ANOTHER attack in London Help us here Antony. What news report have you found? Veronica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Westminster attack and sounds like victims knocked down by a motor on the bridge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 antony1969 - 2017-03-22 3:28 PM Westminster attack and sounds like victims knocked down by a motor on the bridge Thanks Antony. When I googled "Westminster attack" there were shocking scenes of chaos but understandably no analysis of who the perpetrators of the attack were. I suppose we shall all have to wait and see what this is all about. Makes you realise what debt of gratitude we all have to the people responsible for security in Westminster and how vulnerable, they and our politicians are to terrorism. Veronica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 It wont be terrorism related......it'll be a Asian looking person with a mental illness *-) ...... Probably on a day trip from Sparkbrook :-| ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 antony1969 - 2017-03-22 6:26 AM My previous post applies again and will do until you can provide the figure ... Thankyou Mine does, to which i've never had a reply because you cannot back it up. Violet1956 - 2017-03-22 8:09 AM antony1969 - 2017-03-22 6:22 AM Bulletguy - 2017-03-21 11:47 PM Violet1956 - 2017-03-21 10:34 PM As there has been some discussion about the proportion of asylum seekers that are genuine I thought some government stats on the outcome of claims in the UK might present some idea. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/immigration-statistics-april-to-june-2015/asylum Veronica The percentages of applications refused being considerably higher than those accepted and the number of asylum applications down from 85,000 in 2002 to 25,000 in 2014. Good solid fact info there Veronica from a reliable and trusted source, the Home Office. Can't get better than that. But the last year 2015 the granted rate was higher than the previous 5 years ... Not good Or it may mean that there were more genuine cases than fake in 2015 Antony. I know one particular bugbear for many was that which arose due to the adult appearance of the recently arrived asylum seeking "children". It is noted in the Home Office stats that "those who completed age assessments in the year ending June 2015, 58% had a date of birth showing that they were over 18 despite claiming to be a child when the age dispute was raised". I think the figures might reasonably be interpreted as showing that we are not the mugs the popular press would have us believe when it comes to people claiming to be children who are not, nor are we being "swamped" with asylum claimants when compared with Germany, Hungary, Sweden, Austria France and Italy. There were 755,000 asylum claimants in Europe as at the year ending June 2015 of which we had 33,000. As the report mentions "when the relative size of resident populations of the EU countries is taken into account, the UK ranked 16th in terms of asylum applicants per head of resident population in the year ending June 2015". You will also note the ratio of those claims that are accepted as genuine vary, unsurprisingly, according to a claimant's country of origin. For example of those from Pakistan, the second highest country in terms of the origin of claimants in the UK only 22% succeeded in obtaining a grant of refugee status from the Home Office in the year ending June 2015. We know that in Pakistan there are a number of groups that sometimes face persecution as you have mentioned them, e.g. Christians, some women, Ahmadi Muslims. Seems to me those young men coming from Pakistan claiming asylum don't have much luck unless they fall into such categories. So in response to your comment "not good" I would say not as bad as people in the UK are inclined to believe. Veronica That will not be music to the ears of the Beano Boys. Those figures and stats are not what they want to see because it doesn't fit their all Muslims = terrorists and all foreigners = Big Issue sellers/benefit claimants/criminals/cheap labour. That's the batty backward Beano reader mindset you're trying to reason with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 pelmetman - 2017-03-22 8:36 AM antony1969 - 2017-03-22 8:26 AM pelmetman - 2017-03-22 8:13 AM Violet1956 - 2017-03-22 8:09 AM So in response to your comment "not good" I would say not as bad as people in the UK are inclined to believe. Veronica[/quote .......and how many of those failed asylum seekers have been deported? *-) ......... https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/108 http://news.sky.com/story/thousands-of-failed-asylum-seekers-still-in-uk-10178728 http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/617623/UK-immigration-half-a-million-failed-asylum-seekers-Britain-court-Theresa-May-farce ... Kind of bashes the argument Dave dont ya think ;-) ... Any room at Barry's ? But Barry reckons we can have a system where they sort the illegals from the refugees........he's prolly right we could ;-) ........ Not that it'll make a blind bit of difference though because they'll both get to stay anyway *-) ...... Talk about cloud cuckoo land Veronica even says its not that bad (lol) (lol) (lol) ....... Dave you do me a disservice I did not say "it's not that bad" I said it was not as bad as people had been led to believe. Veronica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Bulletguy - 2017-03-22 3:59 PM antony1969 - 2017-03-22 6:26 AM My previous post applies again and will do until you can provide the figure ... Thankyou Mine does, to which i've never had a reply because you cannot back it up. Violet1956 - 2017-03-22 8:09 AM antony1969 - 2017-03-22 6:22 AM Bulletguy - 2017-03-21 11:47 PM Violet1956 - 2017-03-21 10:34 PM As there has been some discussion about the proportion of asylum seekers that are genuine I thought some government stats on the outcome of claims in the UK might present some idea. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/immigration-statistics-april-to-june-2015/asylum Veronica The percentages of applications refused being considerably higher than those accepted and the number of asylum applications down from 85,000 in 2002 to 25,000 in 2014. Good solid fact info there Veronica from a reliable and trusted source, the Home Office. Can't get better than that. But the last year 2015 the granted rate was higher than the previous 5 years ... Not good Or it may mean that there were more genuine cases than fake in 2015 Antony. I know one particular bugbear for many was that which arose due to the adult appearance of the recently arrived asylum seeking "children". It is noted in the Home Office stats that "those who completed age assessments in the year ending June 2015, 58% had a date of birth showing that they were over 18 despite claiming to be a child when the age dispute was raised". I think the figures might reasonably be interpreted as showing that we are not the mugs the popular press would have us believe when it comes to people claiming to be children who are not, nor are we being "swamped" with asylum claimants when compared with Germany, Hungary, Sweden, Austria France and Italy. There were 755,000 asylum claimants in Europe as at the year ending June 2015 of which we had 33,000. As the report mentions "when the relative size of resident populations of the EU countries is taken into account, the UK ranked 16th in terms of asylum applicants per head of resident population in the year ending June 2015". You will also note the ratio of those claims that are accepted as genuine vary, unsurprisingly, according to a claimant's country of origin. For example of those from Pakistan, the second highest country in terms of the origin of claimants in the UK only 22% succeeded in obtaining a grant of refugee status from the Home Office in the year ending June 2015. We know that in Pakistan there are a number of groups that sometimes face persecution as you have mentioned them, e.g. Christians, some women, Ahmadi Muslims. Seems to me those young men coming from Pakistan claiming asylum don't have much luck unless they fall into such categories. So in response to your comment "not good" I would say not as bad as people in the UK are inclined to believe. Veronica That will not be music to the ears of the Beano Boys. Those figures and stats are not what they want to see because it doesn't fit their all Muslims = terrorists and all foreigners = Big Issue sellers/benefit claimants/criminals/cheap labour. That's the batty backward Beano reader mindset you're trying to reason with. We dont murder anyone though for having a different mindset !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Bulletguy - 2017-03-22 3:59 PM That will not be music to the ears of the Beano Boys. Those figures and stats are not what they want to see because it doesn't fit their all Muslims = terrorists and all foreigners = Big Issue sellers/benefit claimants/criminals/cheap labour. That's the batty backward Beano reader mindset you're trying to reason with. Question Bullet?.......Is the current ongoing incident in London the result of reading the Beano or the Koran? :-| ....... Or is that question xenophobic bigoted or racist? *-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Barryd999 - 2017-03-22 10:25 AM antony1969 - 2017-03-22 6:22 AM Bulletguy - 2017-03-21 11:47 PM Violet1956 - 2017-03-21 10:34 PM As there has been some discussion about the proportion of asylum seekers that are genuine I thought some government stats on the outcome of claims in the UK might present some idea. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/immigration-statistics-april-to-june-2015/asylum Veronica The percentages of applications refused being considerably higher than those accepted and the number of asylum applications down from 85,000 in 2002 to 25,000 in 2014. Good solid fact info there Veronica from a reliable and trusted source, the Home Office. Can't get better than that. But the last year 2015 the granted rate was higher than the previous 5 years ... Not good You know why the asylum rate dropped so dramatically after 2002 dont you? Because 2003 was when Le Touquet Treaty was put in place and the UK Borders moved to France. The French have indicated that we can take them back if we leave the EU so I guess you can expect that figure to shoot back up again if we leave. Probably much higher than 2002 levels as well as there are many more migrants now. It was first thing on the agenda with France just two days after Brexit. Can't say i blame 'em either. UK border should start and end in UK on UK soil.....not France. Time to put them back where they belong. "The British people have chosen to take back their freedom, they must take back their borders," the former centre-Right minister told the Telegraph. "Boris Johnson wanted change and he got it with Brexit. So do we." The last article of the treaty grants the two signatory powers the option of ending it “at any time”, simply by informing the other party in writing, via diplomatic channels. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/25/calais-mayor-calls-for-migrant-camps-to-be-moved-to-britain-foll/ http://news.sky.com/story/calais-tells-britain-take-back-your-border-10324266 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36626553 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Violet1956 - 2017-03-22 4:07 PM pelmetman - 2017-03-22 8:36 AM antony1969 - 2017-03-22 8:26 AM pelmetman - 2017-03-22 8:13 AM Violet1956 - 2017-03-22 8:09 AM So in response to your comment "not good" I would say not as bad as people in the UK are inclined to believe. Veronica[/quote .......and how many of those failed asylum seekers have been deported? *-) ......... https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/108 http://news.sky.com/story/thousands-of-failed-asylum-seekers-still-in-uk-10178728 http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/617623/UK-immigration-half-a-million-failed-asylum-seekers-Britain-court-Theresa-May-farce ... Kind of bashes the argument Dave dont ya think ;-) ... Any room at Barry's ? But Barry reckons we can have a system where they sort the illegals from the refugees........he's prolly right we could ;-) ........ Not that it'll make a blind bit of difference though because they'll both get to stay anyway *-) ...... Talk about cloud cuckoo land Veronica even says its not that bad (lol) (lol) (lol) ....... Dave you do me a disservice I did not say "it's not that bad" I said it was not as bad as people had been led to believe. Veronica Seems to mean the same to me? :-S ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 antony1969 - 2017-03-22 4:08 PM Bulletguy - 2017-03-22 3:59 PM antony1969 - 2017-03-22 6:26 AM My previous post applies again and will do until you can provide the figure ... Thankyou Mine does, to which i've never had a reply because you cannot back it up. Violet1956 - 2017-03-22 8:09 AM antony1969 - 2017-03-22 6:22 AM Bulletguy - 2017-03-21 11:47 PM Violet1956 - 2017-03-21 10:34 PM As there has been some discussion about the proportion of asylum seekers that are genuine I thought some government stats on the outcome of claims in the UK might present some idea. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/immigration-statistics-april-to-june-2015/asylum Veronica The percentages of applications refused being considerably higher than those accepted and the number of asylum applications down from 85,000 in 2002 to 25,000 in 2014. Good solid fact info there Veronica from a reliable and trusted source, the Home Office. Can't get better than that. But the last year 2015 the granted rate was higher than the previous 5 years ... Not good Or it may mean that there were more genuine cases than fake in 2015 Antony. I know one particular bugbear for many was that which arose due to the adult appearance of the recently arrived asylum seeking "children". It is noted in the Home Office stats that "those who completed age assessments in the year ending June 2015, 58% had a date of birth showing that they were over 18 despite claiming to be a child when the age dispute was raised". I think the figures might reasonably be interpreted as showing that we are not the mugs the popular press would have us believe when it comes to people claiming to be children who are not, nor are we being "swamped" with asylum claimants when compared with Germany, Hungary, Sweden, Austria France and Italy. There were 755,000 asylum claimants in Europe as at the year ending June 2015 of which we had 33,000. As the report mentions "when the relative size of resident populations of the EU countries is taken into account, the UK ranked 16th in terms of asylum applicants per head of resident population in the year ending June 2015". You will also note the ratio of those claims that are accepted as genuine vary, unsurprisingly, according to a claimant's country of origin. For example of those from Pakistan, the second highest country in terms of the origin of claimants in the UK only 22% succeeded in obtaining a grant of refugee status from the Home Office in the year ending June 2015. We know that in Pakistan there are a number of groups that sometimes face persecution as you have mentioned them, e.g. Christians, some women, Ahmadi Muslims. Seems to me those young men coming from Pakistan claiming asylum don't have much luck unless they fall into such categories. So in response to your comment "not good" I would say not as bad as people in the UK are inclined to believe. Veronica That will not be music to the ears of the Beano Boys. Those figures and stats are not what they want to see because it doesn't fit their all Muslims = terrorists and all foreigners = Big Issue sellers/benefit claimants/criminals/cheap labour. That's the batty backward Beano reader mindset you're trying to reason with. We dont murder anyone though for having a different mindset !!!! Very true Antony. Long may we hold on to our principles. It is very hard when the intolerant challenge them but I believe that we have so far managed to do just that. It requires a concerted effort in the face of much provocation to continue to do so. Veronica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 pelmetman - 2017-03-22 4:11 PM Bulletguy - 2017-03-22 3:59 PM That will not be music to the ears of the Beano Boys. Those figures and stats are not what they want to see because it doesn't fit their all Muslims = terrorists and all foreigners = Big Issue sellers/benefit claimants/criminals/cheap labour. That's the batty backward Beano reader mindset you're trying to reason with. Question Bullet?.......Is the current ongoing incident in London the result of reading the Beano or the Koran? :-| ....... Or is that question xenophobic bigoted or racist? *-) ........ Seeing as it's still breaking news and nothing specific as yet i'd exercise more patience if i were you. I remember the last time something similar to this happened, a forum exploded with the usual wacko's ranting about "gotta be them Mooslims again".......only for it to later emerge being a man suffering mental issues. Worse still for the wacko's, he also happened to be the "wrong" colour........so they quickly scurried off back down their holes and never posted again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Bulletguy - 2017-03-22 4:23 PM pelmetman - 2017-03-22 4:11 PM Bulletguy - 2017-03-22 3:59 PM That will not be music to the ears of the Beano Boys. Those figures and stats are not what they want to see because it doesn't fit their all Muslims = terrorists and all foreigners = Big Issue sellers/benefit claimants/criminals/cheap labour. That's the batty backward Beano reader mindset you're trying to reason with. Question Bullet?.......Is the current ongoing incident in London the result of reading the Beano or the Koran? :-| ....... Or is that question xenophobic bigoted or racist? *-) ........ Seeing as it's still breaking news and nothing specific as yet i'd exercise more patience if i were you. I remember the last time something similar to this happened, a forum exploded with the usual wacko's ranting about "gotta be them Mooslims again".......only for it to later emerge being a man suffering mental issues. Worse still for the wacko's, he also happened to be the "wrong" colour........so they quickly scurried off back down their holes and never posted again. Bet its a Koran reader ;-) ........When did you last hear about a Beano reader killing folk? *-) ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 antony1969 - 2017-03-22 4:08 PM We dont murder anyone though for having a different mindset !!!! Neither do the vast majority of Muslims per se. You need to separate the two which are entirely different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Bulletguy - 2017-03-22 4:26 PM antony1969 - 2017-03-22 4:08 PM We dont murder anyone though for having a different mindset !!!! Neither do the vast majority of Muslims per se. You need to separate the two which are entirely different. Unless of course they've committed blasphemy *-) ....... Ooooh look at that we've ended up back on topic :D ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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